You get to attend a lot of nice parties when you’re the President. For example, President Obama traveled to Michigan the other day to get down and get funky at the opening of a high tech battery factory. Of course, he touted the factory’s products as evidence of the success of his stimulus program.
The Associated Press reports his electrifying comments:
In case you've ever wondered what a $33,000 battery looks like
“This is about the birth of an entire new industry in America, an industry that’s going to be central to the next generation of cars,” Obama said Monday in a phone call broadcast at the opening of A123 Systems Inc.’s lithium ion battery plant in Livonia, Mich.
“And it’s going to allow us to start exporting those cars, making them comfortable, convenient, and affordable. …. When folks lift up their hoods on the cars of the future, I want them to see engines and batteries that are stamped: ‘Made in America,’” Obama said, according to a transcript of the call released by the White House…
Buried waaaaaaay down in the story was this little gem:
Costs are high. The government has estimated that a battery with a 100-mile range costs about $33,000, although stimulus money could bring that down to $10,000 by the end of 2015.
Got that? The President is out there touting an electric car that uses a battery that is, all by itself, far more expensive than the average car. And this is what he uses as an example of the success of his stimulus program.
Lunacy. Complete lunacy.
Source: Associated Press
{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }
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A little more context, and honesty, etc, from many in our politico-media estate, not just on the ROI of such things, but the enviROI they represent to our kids’ futures, might go a long way to restoring some rather shot cred.
Also, where does ‘stimulus money’ come from?
One presumes $23k could go a long way to reducing GHGs in other quarters quite usefully, if targeted sensibly.
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Before we all get lathered up…the report is wrong.
A 100-mile battery is about 24kWh. I’ve seen li-ion batteries at $350/kWh. That’s $8,400 at *retail* prices; of course the manufacturers can make it for a lot less than that. I’ve heard that commodity laptop cells are about $275/kWh in large quantities.
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Don’t forget – these things have to charge up using ‘dirty’ technologies like Big COAL and Big OIL … because that’s where electricity comes from dummy. And you wonder why Cap and Tax is so important to us? Because we’re doing EVERYTHING we can to make sure we use MORE dirty electricity with batteries like these! … and therefore can raise MORE money for the government (aka ‘our’ power!). And people call us stupid. HA!
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Plus in 5 years or so, the company that produces them will no longer be able to handle the EPA requirements. They will then move the plant to China.
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While I realize this is a tonge-in-cheek remark its not very accurate. The US has LOTS and LOTS of nat. gas which could be burned to charge electric vehicles (and make Pickens a trillionare).
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You might want to check newer sources for your information. The U.S. got rid of petroleum-generated electricity in the 70′s.
While it’s true for an unfortunate few (less than 1% of the US population) that has 100% coal-generated electricity that overall EV emissions are not significantly better than overall gas emissions, it hardly matters as the overall grid is much cleaner than that–less than half coal. And the beauty of using electricity is that you can chose to clean it up. Many EV owners have solar panels. I buy wind power.
Even for the unfortunate few, electric drive is still a much better deal for the US. It’s not dirtier than gas (google Sherry Boschert’s meta-review of about 40 studies on the subject), it uses domestic sources rather than foreign, doesn’t fund our enemies, reduces the trade imbalance and helps our economy. And…it can be cleaned up later.
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Why is it not report that this battery company is Korean! That this foreign company is getting $100′s of millions in US federal and Michigan state funds Why wouldn’t our tax dollars be spent to support a US company whose taxes and profits and loyalty be placed in our country. These are batteries they are making – surely we (the US) have battery companies left in the US that could benefit from all this US money and make batteries for cars.
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The feds have given lots of money to domestic companies. This company got money to create a plant in the US. It seems they are doing what you want…
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Even more info on these batteries, based on stuff I read last year:
* they weigh 800 to 1000 lbs and must be installed by a specialist
* they develop a ‘charge memory’ for their most common usage. So if you normally drive 80 miles then recharge daily, before long your 100 mile battery becomes an 80 mile battery.
* they need to be replaced every 2-3 years.
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What you read must have been about NiCD batteries. Those haven’t been in use for EVs for quite a while.
NiMH weighs about that much, but doesn’t have a memory effect. My wife drives a Toyota RAV4-EV that has them. It is 8 years old, and the batteries still test like new–we still get the 100 miles range.
Almost all new cars are using lithium ion. It weighs about half that, and the manufacturers are guaranteeing it for 8 years.
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“This is about the birth of an entire new industry in America” [Obama]
Yep, I’m sure it is. As soon as battery driven cars become the norm, the Democrats will stop attacking greedy “Big Oil” and start attacking greedy “Big Battery”.
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But, but…….it’s GREEN !!!
Recharge? No problem. Just install a $20,000 solar panel array on your house or property, after getting all the required Federal, State and Local licenses, inspections, permits, environmental impact statements etc., and plug ‘er in. Oh, and hope it’s not a cloudy day.
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After reading these comments, I thought I’d chime in here with the correct info. I’ve been driving an EV for 8 years and charging the batteries (and running my house) on solar, so I do speak from experience.
The batteries do not cost $33K. The Nissan Leaf has a 24 kWh battery pack and the cost, before subsidies, is $32,780, and Nissan is not losing money on the deal. Battery prices have dropped fast just in the past couple of years and continue dropping. The journalists who write otherwise are not doing their homework.
The comment about solar costing a lot is also wrong. Solar PV today is selling, again before subsidies, around $6/watt. A PV system big enough to provide energy to drive an EV 12,000 miles per year would cost only about $10K, and after subsidies, it’s closer to $7K. The systems will last for decades, too, so you’ll get your money back in a few short years and then it’s free energy for most of the rest of your life.
In my case, my electric bill averages about $100 a year, and that’s for both the house and the car. I’ve driven 86,000 on sunlight. I haven’t been to a gas station since 2002. None of my money goes to the oil companies, and by extension, the Saudis. When you buy gas, 60% of your money leaves the country, and probably 90% leaves your community. When you get an EV, all of your energy money stays domestic with most of it staying in your pocket to be spent locally, generating jobs in your community, not enriching the oil barons.
Diego’s comment on the battery was 100% wrong. The packs weigh about 600 lbs, not 800-1000. They have no memory issues, those that did were the NiCad batteries. These are LiIon. Both Nissan and GM are guaranteeing the packs for 8 years or 100,000 miles, not 2-3 years.
As for where the electricity will come from, we don’t need expensive, hard to site nukes, we can easily use renewable energy to charge these cars. The number of EVs we’ll have next year will be about 30,000-50,000. In 2012, maybe 100,000-150,000. We won’t see one million EVs sold till about 2015. The numbers will grow fast from there as new lines come on, but it’ll be a decade at least before we see 10 million plug-ins. According to an Energy Dept. study, there is enough excess capacity at night to charge about 180 million EVs without adding anymore capacity.
In 2009, the U.S. installed about 10 gigawatts of new wind energy, and about one gW of new solar. That’s enough energy potential to charge about ten million EVs. Every year, we’ll install vastly more renewable energy to the grid than the EVs will consume, and we’ll do that forever.
EVs are good for our country because they help clean our environment, they strengthen our economy, and they make our nation safer. Remember, we’ve never fought a war over electricity, and we never will.
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Oh, that’s SO much better, and we LOVE subsidies…1st. $32k is sooo much less than $33k.
2nd. Have fun getting those solar panels(which are also “cheap”) to work in cloudy locations.
3rd. If the battery and solar panels cost $40k+, I could get 2 years college tuition with room and board at a public college, or a year and a half with room and board at a private college. Education > An Eco car.
4th. That wasn’t even with the cost of the vehicle…
5th. LiIon, NiCad… who cares? It makes a “huge” difference with my AAs. You still have to recharge them after a couple hours’ use. I’d assume it’s the similar with the car…
6th. You still have to pay for that “excess” electricity, so what’s the difference?
7th. The environment has been taking care if itself for who knows how long. A couple hundred electric cars won’t save the world, nor will it make an impact.
8th. I still don’t see how these vehicles will make our roads any safer than they are with regular vehicles.
9th. Your numbers are absolutely hilarious. Who has the money to pay 2-3 years of college tuition for a car?
Sorry, but your corrections don’t really make it seem any better. Just… more pathetic. No offence meant to you. Just to your information.
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You are probably just trolling, Kyle, but
1. $32k is the cost of the *car*, not the batteries.
2. Solar panels do work in cloudy locations. Of course, the beauty of electricity is that you don’t have to use solar, you can pick something else.
3. The cost of the panels is irrelevant because they pay for themselves over time. In fact there are companies that will install them for $0 (they make money by taking the generation credits until it is paid for). You really can get them for free.
5. Many people already drive electric cars. My wife and I do. We drive during the day, charge at night. Recharging is not a problem. I don’t understand why you insist it can’t be practical when it already is.
6. The difference is that it does not increase peak load, so the utilities do not have to increase capacity. In fact, because they get more money without increasing capital costs, then they have money to make improvements.
7. OK, you are very obviously just trolling.
8. He didn’t say the roads were safer, our nation is. Because we’re not sending money to our enemies in the Middle East. It’s a billion dollars a DAY!
9. Lots of people. Autoblog.com lists average sales prices every month, you might want to take a look.
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1. My bad, it was hard to tell what he was saying. Nissan are junk, though, so I’d much rather pay for a decent new vehicle.
2. Ok.
3. Nothing is free, but say what you will.
5. I feel for you.
7. I’m sure that I’m not.
8. We could do this by drilling in Alaska. We have plenty of oil off-shore.
9. I’ll pass. I’m more than content with what I already have, and I wouldn’t pay for any of these any time in the foreseeable future.
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I’d also like to chime in. My family just got an electric car a little over a year ago. We realized that it made sense to get solar (we are now replacing cost of gas, instead of just electricity, so they pay for themselves even faster). We got several bids from companies who lease the panels. They put the panels on at no cost and then charge you a monthly fee that is guaranteed to be less than your electric bill from your utility would have been. Not free, but at no extra cost to you.
I understand that a lot of people don’t want to pay for this stuff, and I agree that it shouldn’t cost any more than the alternatives. However, right now it does cost a little more, but prices are only dropping and these cars are selling faster than they can make them, even the Tesla at $100,000.
There are people who can afford these cars and they will buy them. Those that cannot can take other measures to protect the environment, such as leasing solar panels, driving less (biking, public transit, etc), reducing waste, etc.
So overall, yes battery powered cars are more expensive now. And no a few hundred aren’t going to save the world. But you have to start somewhere and if we keep going at the rate that we are, these cars will become mainstream, affordable, and just might save the world.