Thousands get health insurance cancellation notices. “…the cancellation notices, which began arriving in August, have shocked many consumers in light of President Barack Obama’s promise that people could keep their plans if they liked them.” If the media had done their job, consumers wouldn’t be “shocked” now.

{ 552 comments… read them below or add one }

JPTravis October 20, 2013 at 6:36 am

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Yeah, it’s hard to feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to be shocked. Fuck them. We’ve been trying to educate them for five years and they still don’t get it? I’m reserving my sympathy for conservatives getting cancellation notices. Liberal Obama enablers can wallow in their own just desserts.

TeriDavisNewman October 20, 2013 at 8:59 am

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My insurance went up 116%. I fought Obamacare tooth and nail to the point of running for Congress to fight it (won the primary, lost the general) and I’m still screwed. I’m gonna become Amish to be exempt.

wingater October 20, 2013 at 9:07 am

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Would your gravitar like to have lunch sometime?

MGAP October 20, 2013 at 12:19 pm

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Yeah, she’s hawt!

Red Robster October 22, 2013 at 10:15 am

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Just don’t clip your toenails at the table wingater, or you’ll get a heapin’ helpin’ of Miss SmartyPants, i’m thinkin.

Also, I’d like to recommend the 炒年糕, but, since i’ve never eaten it I can’t. Although it does look thoroughly yummy. Bring on the Soy Sauce and 白酒. *

I just hope those ideograms don’t have any obscene meaning associated w/them. :D

*never had this either, but looks really cool.

KimmyQueen October 20, 2013 at 3:23 pm

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OMG!!!!! That is horrible!

Are there any Black Amish?

That sounds like a drink…

Big Al October 20, 2013 at 3:28 pm

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Bitter Clingers are exempt also.

poppajoe49 October 20, 2013 at 11:19 pm

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If only.

Red Robster October 22, 2013 at 10:29 am
KimmyQueen October 22, 2013 at 8:06 pm

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He looks interesting lol OMG I just got your avatar… LOLOLOL

Red Robster November 1, 2013 at 11:19 am

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Thanks, I’m liking yours too, as “mostly” always. the one with the red lips going clear across the face was, i must admit, rather creepy to me. However; I’d recently watched the black dahlia complete w/dvd extras. (shiver)

KimmyQueen November 2, 2013 at 5:35 pm

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I think you mean Sally from Nightmare Before Christmas makeup.

http://youtu.be/SJEty4mN5dU

is that the one? LOL since I like the character I don’t find her creepy at all but yeah I see what you mean.

sa_rose November 2, 2013 at 5:43 pm

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I thought it was s zombie for the season.

KimmyQueen November 3, 2013 at 11:09 am

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No, she is essentially a rag doll. :-)

Red Robster November 5, 2013 at 10:07 am

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that was it.

KimmyQueen November 5, 2013 at 7:27 pm

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There is a more glammy version if you prefer RR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuu5qocVuc8

LOL

Red Robster November 14, 2013 at 4:05 pm

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it’s ok.

C_Strasburger October 21, 2013 at 9:31 am

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We are leaving…again….

KimmyQueen October 20, 2013 at 6:51 am

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“Shocked”? LOLOLOL Really? Wow… those “shocked” must be the low information voters we talk so much about. If I was a swindler and found out who they were, I am sure I would have gotten a lot of money out of them from some racket. Obama voters are idiots. Every single one of them. You get what you voted for fools.

Neo-7 October 20, 2013 at 7:21 am

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If people that liked being lied too when he said ” If you like your health plan , you can keep it ” , wait until the word ” AFFORDABLE ” is jammed down their throats .

C_Strasburger October 21, 2013 at 9:28 am

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Is that like when someone said, “if you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until its free….!

Its free, its free, its free….and the serfs cheered!

Olivia October 21, 2013 at 7:21 pm

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I like my health care plan, and I’m keeping it. It hasn’t gone up at all this year—-first time I can remember.

poppajoe49 October 22, 2013 at 3:40 am

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Just wait.

TURDS!

Paden October 24, 2013 at 10:44 am

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Buuuuuull Shit.

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:11 am

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Hey Paden! Haven’t seen you in a while. You doin’ ok?

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:18 pm

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Sorry Rose, I missed the TU.

sa_rose October 26, 2013 at 8:09 pm

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I forgive you! Using a stylus on my tablet is driving me nuts.

poppajoe49 October 26, 2013 at 8:47 pm

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It takes quite a bit of getting used to, and the auto word complete makes it worse.
I started out with a fat stylus, but found it easier with a skinnier one.

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 12:31 pm

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Yes, decision to choose which word I intended to use is absolutely brain frying. My auto correct is off, but I will type a word, and it frequently chooses some other word for me. Why do you think someof my post look like I am on drugs? You can tell the ones I post fom the tablet!

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 3:33 am

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Yea, they look like Olivia posted them!

Red Robster November 1, 2013 at 11:22 am

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I started out with a fat stylus, but found it easier with a skinnier one.

that’s what she said.

KimmyQueen November 2, 2013 at 5:42 pm

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LOL

It took me a minute…

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm

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Translation: “But but but that can’t be. Rush Limbaugh said—-”

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 3:43 pm

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Translation:
“I’m too fucking stupid to come up with a real answer, so I’ll translate to what I want you to say so I can look smart.”

sa_rose October 26, 2013 at 8:10 pm

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Hardly anyone here listens to Rush, and you know it.

poppajoe49 October 26, 2013 at 8:49 pm

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Not to mention, that people here who do listen to Rush, freely admit it.
I, for example, might listen to him, but there is no station that I can pick up where I am that carries him.

Red Robster November 1, 2013 at 11:25 am
KimmyQueen November 2, 2013 at 5:47 pm

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I am assuming we are talking about Rush Limbaugh here… question… why is he so important? This is a real question. I don’t get it. I listened to one of his shows once and it was boring ass screaming. I was over him. I think liberals overestimate him a great deal and I want to know why…? He ain’t all that.

poppajoe49 November 2, 2013 at 6:04 pm

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Probably because they need a boogey man, since they don’t have Cheney any more.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 3:49 am

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I am assuming we are talking about Rush Limbaugh here… question… why is he so important?
*****************
Because (1) when he makes a pronouncement, whether true, false or ridiculous, the right regularly picks it up and repeats it ad infinitum as gospel

and (2) because not one GOP representative will denounce him or hold him accountable when he lies about their political opponents.

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=robtornoeF7656590-6AAA-C6B3-A8CD-340FD3236762.jpg&width=600

http://media.cagle.com/53/2011/02/23/89702_600.jpg

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID15870/images/Rush_Limbaugh_political_cartoon.jpg

http://media.cagle.com/23/2012/03/03/107473_600.jpg

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 5:43 am

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Seriously?
When you bring citation, it’s in the form of leftist drawn political cartoons?
You are losing what tiny bit of credibility you might have had.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 6:10 am

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No, Poopajoe, those cartoons weren’t meant as “citation” of anything in particular. They were meant to show the ridiculousness of the GOP’s willingness to defer to Rush Limbaugh’s drug addled rants. ;>)

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 6:20 am

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They show nothing more than the left’s over the top eagerness to demean the Republican party.

Sidekick November 3, 2013 at 9:11 am

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LMAO. You can’t make a legitimate point despite having the content of the Internet at your disposal?

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 10:17 am

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No, because her computer can’t find any legitimate info sites, only leftist propoganda sites.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 11:09 am

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LMAO. You can’t make a legitimate point despite having the content of the Internet at your disposal?
******
I exposed the lies that YOU swallowed and are now regurgitating, since apparently YOU couldn’t be bothered to look up Obama’s law career on the internet.

IT wasn’t much of a trick to debunk your lies, mind you, because they’ve been debunked many, many times over the past five years. Apparently you’re not well enough informed to realize that, though. :>D

You’re a hoot, Kick. You affect to sound iintelligent and well read by tossing out economic and political science buzzwords, but when it comes right down to it , you’ve got nothing but long-debunked urban legends to spew. What’s even funnier is that almost all of them are fabrications of Rush Limbaugh—-the hate radio star that you claim you never listen to. :>D

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 11:36 am

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According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama

After four years living in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer.
- – –
Also during his law school years, Obama spent eight days in Los Angeles taking a national training course on Alinsky methods of organizing.
- – -
Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004).[68] During this time he taught courses in due process and equal protection, voting rights, and racism and law. He published no legal scholarship, and turned down tenured positions, but served eight years in the Illinois Senate during his twelve years at the university.[

Which I find amazing how he managed to do both effectively.
- – –
During the four years Obama worked as a full-time lawyer at the firm, he was involved in 30 cases and accrued 3,723 billable hours.[

Or about 930 hours a year, hardly what anyone could call full time, since it works out to less than 18 hours a week.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 12:04 pm

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Also during his law school years, Obama spent eight days in Los Angeles taking a national training course on Alinsky methods of organizing.
**************
Well, congratulations, Poopajoe! FINALLY you’ve posted something worth looking into and discussing. I clicked on the link associated with this statement in the Wikipedia article you cited, and found that there was more to this comment than meets the eye:

Not long after Obama arrived, he sat down for a cup of coffee in Hyde Park with a fellow organizer named Mike Kruglik. Obama’s work focused on helping poor blacks on Chicago’s South Side fight thecity for things like job banks and asbestos removal. His teachers were schooled in a style of organizing devised by Saul Alinsky, the radical University of Chicago-trained social scientist. At the heart of the Alinsky method is the concept of “agitation”– making someone angry enough about the rotten state of his life that heagrees to take action to change it; or, as Alinsky himself described the job, to “rub raw the sores of discontent.”

On this particular evening, Kruglik was debriefing Obama about his work when a panhandler approached. Instead of ignoring the man,Obama confronted him. “Now, young man, is that really what you want be about?” Obama demanded. “I mean, come on, don’t you want to be better than that? Let’s get yourself together.”

Kruglik remembers this episode as an example of why, in ten years of training organizers, Obama was the best student he ever had. He was a natural, the undisputed master of agitation, who could engage a room full of recruiting targets in a rapid-fire Socratic dialogue,nudging them to admit that they were not living up to their own standards. As with the panhandler, he could be aggressive and confrontational. With probing, sometimes personal questions, he would pinpoint the source of pain in their lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope that they could make things better.

More than 20 years later, Obama presents himself as a post-partisan consensus builder, not a rabble-rouser, and certainly not a disciple of Alinsky, who disdained electoral politics and titled his organizing manifesto Rules for Radicals. On the stump, Obama makes a pitch for “common-sense, practical, nonideological solutions.”And, although he’s anchored to a center-left worldview, he gives the impression of being above the ideological fray–a fresh face who is a generation removed from the polarizing turmoil of the1960s.Barack Obama’s Unlikely Political Education | New Republic

In other words, the so-called Alinsky method that is mentioned here has nothing to do with any particular ideology, but is simply a method of getting people on board to effect change. Interestingly, the method described here—–”making someone angry enough about the rotten state of his life that he agrees to take action to change it”—-is THE VERY TACTIC USED BY THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT. “Taxed enough already!” “Take back our country!” “Send the lying Muslim socialist back to Kenya!” If that’s not agitating, I don’t know what is.

(Incidentally, did you notice that the author of the article stated, later on, that, for all his rhetorical skill, Obama was and is “certainly not a disciple of Alinsky”? Just in case you were salivating at the prospect of labeling him one. :>D
*******************

Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004).[68] During this time he taught courses in due process and equal protection, voting rights, and racism and law. He published no legal scholarship, and turned down tenured positions, but served eight years in the Illinois Senate during his twelve years at the university.[

Which I find amazing how he managed to do both effectively.
***************
Oh, it’s quite possible, Poopajoe. Lots of high achieving people (lawyers, physicians, businessmen, scientists, nurses and so on) teach classes in their field of expertise in their spare time. Most will tell you that it keeps them current on the latest developments, and that they often learn almost as much from their students as their students learn from them.

***************
During the four years Obama worked as a full-time lawyer at the firm, he was involved in 30 cases and accrued 3,723 billable hours.[

Or about 930 hours a year, hardly what anyone could call full time, since it works out to less than 18 hours a week.
**************
That’s BILLABLE hours, Poopajoe. You do realize, don’t you, that lawyers aren’t paid hourly wages? And that all do a certain amount of pro-bono work, as well as paid work?

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 12:37 pm

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Obama’s work focused on helping poor blacks on Chicago’s South Side fight thecity for things like job banks and asbestos removal.

Yet, when someone living in those projects sued for injuries received in a fall, Obama got the case dismissed. Way to help your people Obama!
- – – -
did you notice that the author of the article stated, later on, that, for all his rhetorical skill, Obama was and is “certainly not a disciple of Alinsky”?

Yet, he does a bang up job of following his principles to a “T”.
- – – -
Oh, it’s quite possible, Poopajoe. Lots of high achieving people (lawyers, physicians, businessmen, scientists, nurses and so on) teach classes in their field of expertise in their spare time.

That may be, but we’re talking about Obama, someone who had to have his college records sealed for fear that we might find out what kind of student he really was.
- – – -
You do realize, don’t you, that lawyers aren’t paid hourly wages? And that all do a certain amount of pro-bono work, as well as paid work?

Yet, there was no reference to him doing any such work, in fact:
Senior attorneys at the small firm where he worked say he was a strong writer and researcher, but was involved in relatively few cases — about 30 — and spent only four years as a full-time lawyer before entering politics.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/06/nation/na-obamalegal6

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 4:17 pm

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Obama’s work focused on helping poor blacks on Chicago’s South Side fight thecity for things like job banks and asbestos removal.

Yet, when someone living in those projects sued for injuries received in a fall, Obama got the case dismissed. Way to help your people Obama!
***********
And you know for a fact that the person’s lawsuit had legal merit, and Obama’s dismissal of it did not, because……..? ;>)
***********

did you notice that the author of the article stated, later on, that, for all his rhetorical skill, Obama was and is “certainly not a disciple of Alinsky”?

Yet, he does a bang up job of following his principles to a “T”.
*************
As I pointed out to you, the Tea Party tactics are far more typical of the description given than Obama’s tactics.
**************
Oh, it’s quite possible, Poopajoe. Lots of high achieving people (lawyers, physicians, businessmen, scientists, nurses and so on) teach classes in their field of expertise in their spare time.

That may be, but we’re talking about Obama, someone who had to have his college records sealed for fear that we might find out what kind of student he really was.
- – – -
My boy, it’s a myth, long debunked by Snopes and FactCheck, that Obama “had his college records sealed.” Talk about gullible!
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/ D
***************
You do realize, don’t you, that lawyers aren’t paid hourly wages? And that all do a certain amount of pro-bono work, as well as paid work?
******************

Yet, there was no reference to him doing any such work, in fact:
Senior attorneys at the small firm where he worked say he was a strong writer and researcher, but was involved in relatively few cases — about 30 — and spent only four years as a full-time lawyer before entering politics.
*****************
Irrelevant, Poopajoe. EVERY working attorney is required by law to do a certain amount of pro bono work, and some elect to do more than the minimum. What’s more, it’s impossible to judge how many cases any attorney should handle per year, in order to avoid being labeled lazy or shiftless. Do you not realize that some cases can demand an attorney’s full attention for many weeks or months, and that others are much less time consuming?

It’s downright comical watching you twist, turn and spin, hunting for excuses to bash Obama. All you’re doing, for the most part, is exposing your own ignorance about his academic and professional background.

Sidekick November 3, 2013 at 4:25 pm

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Well you still can’t point to a lie I told. Perhaps you are confused and think disagreement is lying. That would be no surprise given the crap you put up here. Who knows with you? Saying I lied for the last five years (when I’ve only been coming to this board since Spring 2011) is in itself a lie. So listen, Sweetie, when you can demonstrably prove I have lied, go for it. I don’t pretend to be educated and intelligent. I am educated and intelligent. I do the work required to learn about what I post. You only read Mother Jones and watch MSNBC apparently. I am almost certain that you have never read any source material. Maybe you are just frustrated because you can’t debate without the exaggerations, hyperbole, lies, distortions, and putting words in people’s mouths. So, anyway, get digging and show where I lied. I’ll wait.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 5:05 pm

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LOL Kick, she obviously didn’t even read the material at the one link she finally provided!
- – – -
Obama’s Selective Service registration is public. A copy has been posted publicly, and the Selective Service confirmed that Obama registered for the draft on Sept. 4, 1980, and was given registration number 61-1125539-1.
Worth noting is that nobody in the U.S. has been drafted for military service since 1972, the year Obama turned 11. Obama, like other young men turning age 18 since then, was required to register on a standby basis, in case Congress ever resumes an active military draft. Failure to register is technically a crime, and disqualifies a man for federal student aid or from holding certain federal jobs.

HMMMMM, by doing some simple math, one would discover that Obama, who turned 11 in 1972 when the draft ended, would have been 19 when he registered for the draft on Sept 4 1980, because his birthday is in August.
Failure to register is technically a crime, and disqualifies a man for federal student aid or from holding certain federal jobs.
Yet, he still managed to do all of those, even though he failed to register at 18, as the law requires.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 5:35 pm

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HMMMMM, by doing some simple math, one would discover that Obama, who turned 11 in 1972 when the draft ended, would have been 19 when he registered for the draft on Sept 4 1980, because his birthday is in August.
Failure to register is technically a crime, and disqualifies a man for federal student aid or from holding certain federal jobs.
**********************
But Obama did register, Poopajoe, so he is not guilty of any crime, even though it’s true that he registered later than he should have.

Of course, being the fine Amurrican patriot that you are, you’ll withhold judgment unless and until you hear Obama’s side of the story, right? In the meantime, note that registration for the draft was and is accepted at age 19, even though it is true that he should have registered as soon as he turned 18.http://www.sss.gov/qa.htm#quest5

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 5:42 pm

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Okay, Poopajoe, I’ve got your answer for you. It was so easy to find that I’m simply amazed that you didn’t check it out before accusing Obama of draft dodging.

Here’s the explanation:

In 1973, the draft ended and the U.S. converted to an All-Volunteer military.

The registration requirement was suspended in April 1975. It was resumed again in 1980 by President Carter in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Registration continues today as a hedge against underestimating the number of servicemen needed in a future crisis.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/l/bldrafthistory.htm <—-THIS IS A LINK

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 5:45 pm

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Good for you! You finally did some research and found a reputable source for your info!
Now, it wasn’t that hard, was it? Maybe if you try that every time you post something, you would have more actual debate.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 5:47 pm

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Good for you! You finally did some research and found a reputable source for your info!
Now, it wasn’t that hard, was it? Maybe if you try that every time you post something, you would have more actual debate.
***********
And maybe if you put some effort into it yourself, instead of whining that you can’t find the link or get it to work, you’ll discover that I usually do.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 5:52 pm

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So, anyway, get digging and show where I lied. I’ll wait.
***********
Sorry, Kick, but I don’t take orders from you. Nor am I about to scurry madly around hunting up a list of untruths that you’ve posted here, which you have no intention of acknowledging anyway.

I’ve already pointed it out to you each time you’ve posted an inaccuracy (or a ridiculous lie). Go back over those posts, if you’re truly interested in seeing those examples—-I’m not about to do it all over again for you, just because you’ve got lead in your butt.

;>)

Sidekick November 3, 2013 at 5:56 pm

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As I said, disagreeing is not pointing out inaccuracies or lying. I’ll take your response as a concession. Once again, you lose the argument because you can’t support your side.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 6:33 pm

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The best way to tell when she’s been defeated is that she drags out her old “I will not scurry around” line. Her BS hasn’t changed in years.

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 11:13 pm

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Olivia November 3, 2013 at 5:47 pm
Like or Dislike: 1 4

Good for you! You finally did some research and found a reputable source for your info!
Now, it wasn’t that hard, was it? Maybe if you try that every time you post something, you would have more actual debate.
***********
And maybe if you put some effort into it yourself, instead of whining that you can’t find the link or get it to work, you’ll discover that I usually do.

Seriously Olivia. Over 3-4 threads and 3 weeks you have listed I believe 3 instances of a link. And we (including Poppa, Sidekick, Myself and Kimmey all read and commented on the links, You are talking out your ass again.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 3:54 am

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Rose, she is under the mistaken notion that copying the words that contain a link on a website are actually copying the link, she needs to right click and “copy shortcut” and paste that. It’s simply laziness on her part, and she expects us to recognize those supposed links she posts. In the meantime, we post the actual lonks for everything, but she never clicks and reads them.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 4:55 am

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Seriously Olivia. Over 3-4 threads and 3 weeks you have listed I believe 3 instances of a link.
***************
And I’ve seen none at all from you. So maybe you should work on getting the beam out of your own eye before jumping in to bitch about the mote in mine.

Poopajoe, I’m not sure why you’re addressing your explanation to Rose instead of me. If you see that I’m not posting links properly, why not just explain to me how it’s done on this board, instead of hiding behind Rose? I don’t bite.

In any case, thank you for the explanation. As you’d know if you ever ventured off this board onto another, every message board is set up differently, with different posting procedures.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 5:07 am

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I know that full well, however, I have never been to a board where you can C&P a word with a link embedded in it, that supplied the link. You still need to use HTML, which this board doesn’t support, to embed the link into the words.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 5:36 am

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I know that full well, however, I have never been to a board where you can C&P a word with a link embedded in it, that supplied the link. You still need to use HTML, which this board doesn’t support, to embed the link into the words.
****************
Well, then, we’ve both learned something today. I’ve never posted on a board that you COULDN’T C&P a link to (or drag it down into the post).

That’s actually a pretty good analogy of political differences. We both come from different backgrounds, with different experiences and expectations—-which can lead to misunderstandings. The solution? Discuss the misunderstandings, and clear up misconceptions. Thanks for your input.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 6:15 am

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And, because you actually discussed this without vitriol, and were level headed, I won’t TD this post.
See? We can discuss things if you are reasonable.

danybhoy October 28, 2013 at 3:04 am

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Limbaugh does not have health insurance, should he be forced to buy it as a condition of his citizenship?

poppajoe49 October 28, 2013 at 4:35 am

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Actually, in his case, it would be better to buy and not use the insurance, and then pay cash for his medical care, than to pay the fine, since the fine is based on income, because he can get a better level of care not being subject to the Obamacare rules,

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 6:11 am

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Tough toenails, Poopajoe. If Rush wishes to enjoy the benefits of living in the U.S., then he’s obliged to accept the inconveniences along with it. Which includes taking responsibility for his own health care.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 6:22 am

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And I gave a way that any wealthy person can take responsibility for their own healthcare, without being subjest to the restrictions of Obamacare.
What do you have against someone choosing their own method of taking care of their health? Since many hospitals are opting out of Obamacare, it makes sense for those who wish to, to avoid using Obamacare, and paying their own way.

Sidekick November 3, 2013 at 9:08 am

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Are you suggesting he not be allowed to self-insure?

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 12:14 pm

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Of course not, Kick. He can buy all the insurance policies he pleases. But the fact that he’s got money doesn’t exempt him from the laws of the land, which is what Poopajoe was hinting at.

I like that claim that “many hospitals are opting out of Obamacare.” What a crock, when “Obamacare,” aside from Medicare and Medicaid, is merely an exchange consisting of private company insurance policies. I guess Poopajoe’s horror story source doesn’t realize, either, that hospitals aren’t allowed to reject patients purely on the grounds of what type of insurance they have (or don’t have).

Poopajoe, you never fail to make me laugh. I do enjoy a good absurdity. :>D

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm

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http://health.usnews.com/health-news/hospital-of-tomorrow/articles/2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare

Yea, must be more shit I’m making up, right my bitch?

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 3:54 pm

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http://health.usnews.com/health-news/hospital-of-tomorrow/articles/2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare

Yea, must be more shit I’m making up, right my bitch?
**************
I didn’t say that. But you do have a tendency to swallow any story unquestioningly, if it’s likely to be uncomplimentary to Obama.

In this case, I’d like to ask: are they referring to using these hospitals for testing, or being admitted for surgery and/or emergency procedures?

My current insurance pays much less on “out of network” providers. Which means that, if I wanted to get tests done at Mayo Clinic, or see a specialist in New York, I’d have to pay extra for that choice. So it’s not really so odd that certain “Obamacare” plans would allow only certain providers. HMOs have been doing that for years.

If we’re talking about emergency hospitalization, the article is pure BS. Federal EMTALA laws require that ALL patients be offered a medical screening (or, if hemodynamically unstable, they must be stabilized), and all patients in labor be accepted for admission, REGARDLESS OF ABILITY TO PAY.

Granted, the patient is sent a bill afterward, but the hospital can’t turn these people away, or reroute them to another hospital. EMTALA violations can cost the hospital a lot of money in fines, and also have a really bad effect on their community reputation.

Of course, insurance companies are going to be looking for every and any creative loophole, whereby they can possibly withhold certain benefits, or jack up the price a little more. But that’s what you righties wanted, when you demanded that health care be controlled by for-profit companies instead of the government.

You wanted this; you got it. So maybe, instead of sitting on your fanny blaming Obama for business decisions that he has no control over, you’ll start rethinking the idea that giving free rein to business always results in altruistic business practices.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 4:54 pm

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And, of course, she didn’t bother to read the article.

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 11:16 pm

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Sure they can. They can reject patients in non emergent situatipns because they are not network providers, or because they don’t feel the patient (or family) can’ afford the charges. They DO have to provide emergent care, regardless of financial status, but that isn’t the discussion here.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 3:57 am

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Of course it isn’t the discussion, but when has that ever stopped Mme Derail?

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 12:54 pm

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Wait a minute, now. When did we have to pay to earn our citizenship (and thus residency) in the US. It was my understanding we live in a free, constitutional represemtative republic. No pay to play was ever involved. And in stating that Rush, or anyone else for that matter wants to enjou the benefits, they have to accept the inconveniences along with it. Including taking responsibility for his healthcare. So what abut the folk who cannot or will not get insurance (which is what I think you really meant in this context, not healthcare?) Do they get their citizenship renounced, Deported to whereever? sort of people withut a country? or what?

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 2:47 pm

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Wait a minute, now. When did we have to pay to earn our citizenship (and thus residency) in the US. It was my understanding we live in a free, constitutional represemtative republic. No pay to play was ever involved.
*************
Obviously, you understood wrong. You’re correct that this is a “representative republic”—not a monarchy, with you the absolute monarch who gets to do whatever s/he likes and is guaranteed no cost or obligation whatsoever.

Even free countries expect their citizens and residents to refrain from becoming a hindrance and a burden to others, if they can. And when Americans refuse to take responsibility for their own health care, they’re setting themselves up to be a burden to the rest of us.

I just love the way members of the Party of Personal Responsibility always seem to be looking for a free ride for themselves, even as they bitch up a storm at the very idea of a “welfare recipient” (code for “poor black person”) daring to enjoy a candy bar or a nice dinner.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm

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And, the hat trick!

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 11:26 pm

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Contrary to your delusional viewpoint, I have not seen or heard any conservative or even Moderate expect free stuff. Even though you class me in with the recipient class, I pay 2 premiums for my health insurance and the premiums increase every year, regardles of whether my income goes up. In fact. usuwally the tiny increases we get in Social Security (1.75% fot 2014) the medicare and drug premioum rise more than that amount, No body here believes in free lunch. You are preaching to the wrong group.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 3:58 am

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Rose, check your email.

MGAP November 4, 2013 at 7:13 am

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Once again you display what a stupid mother fucker you truly are. Welfare recipients are not all poor black people. There are people from all walks of life that are on welfare. I had an uncle who was on welfare and been since was released from prison. He taught his son how to game the system and he and his family are on permanent disability and welfare too. It’s a nationwide problem that needs to be corrected. By throwing the race card out, you’ve basically thrown in the towel because you know deep down that you can’t defend your position. Racist, Bush, KKK blah blah blah. You’re just a dumb mother fucker without a stitch of cognitive capability.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 5:42 am

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Okay, Poopajoe, I’m trying your procedure here. I right clicked on an article, and the option “CREATE SHORTCUT” popped up. When I clicked on that, it asked me if I want to put a shortcut to the website on my desktop. What am I doing wrong?

(And, yes, I admit it—-I am an ignoramus when it comes to computers.)

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 6:19 am

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Right click on the web address in the bar at the top of the page (http://www.whatever.com) then click copy, and paste it in to the post. If it’s a link in the article, right click on it, it will say “copy shortcut” and then paste it in the post.
You can try that here by right clicking on the date on any post, the dates are the permalink to the particular post.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 6:40 am

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Okay, here goes. Testing………http://www.ihatethemedia.com/thousands-get-health-insurance-cancellation-notices/comment-page-1#comment-298190

Hey, it’s working! (I think)

Now I’ll try a different website:
http://www.connectingthewindycity.com/2013/01/wacker-drive-getting-started.html

Now let’s see if those turned into links that can be clicked on……..

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 6:41 am

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Thank you, Poopajoe!

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 6:44 am

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You’re welcome Obliviousidiot.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 5:12 am

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Why, no. He should be “forced” to by it as a condition of his residence in the U.S.

You think selected people should be exempted from federal law, on the grounds that they have megabucks? I certainly don’t.

Gingivitis Kahn October 28, 2013 at 6:25 am

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Dear Olivia

That right! You tell them. State do not belong to people. People belong to state! So it is only right they must make rent payment to live here.

Also I do not have any more roantic love for you. I have met another. Sorry. I still know that we can fight these kapitalist pig dog wingnut teabaggers that stand in the way of the loving hand of a dear leader to give them freedom from the unfair responsibility of choosing their own decisions. I know we in this fight together! I respect your commitment to fighting scourge of individual that thinks they desires more important than communities right to decide for them. Viva la boom! Kahn out!!!

MGAP October 28, 2013 at 6:34 am

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примечательный

Gingivitis Kahn October 29, 2013 at 3:32 am

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Спасибо за отметив, что.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 3:43 am

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Она действительно глупа, не она

KimmyQueen November 2, 2013 at 5:51 pm

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Hey!!!!! I missed you man!

I am so sorry things between you and the troll didn’t work out though.

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 12:33 pm

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So explain to me the exemptions that Obama has handed out? Not to mention the ENTIRE Congress of the US has exempted themselves. And its not like THEY are on food stamps!

danybhoy October 28, 2013 at 5:09 pm

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It’s like they say in “Animal Farm”. All animals are equal, some are MORE equal then others.

As to he dumbass explanation…

You think selected people should be exempted from federal law, on the grounds that they have megabucks? I certainly don’t

…she does not understand the coercion aspect of what she now supports. Now, Rush can go get his BS Obamacare policy in whatever shit exchange to be “legal”, & he can go on with his COD health care with any doctor, anywhere in the world. But he understands, & she don’t, that gov’t coercion leads to the end of a gun. If she don’t understand that, then she is beyond help. She seems to believe in the big lie of better living through state control. I never have, & I never will.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 3:12 am

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Now, Rush can go get his BS Obamacare policy in whatever shit exchange to be “legal”, & he can go on with his COD health care with any doctor, anywhere in the world. But he understands, & she don’t, that gov’t coercion leads to the end of a gun. If she don’t understand that, then she is beyond help. She seems to believe in the big lie of better living through state control. I never have, & I never will.
******************
Wrong. Rush SPEWS BS because he’s discovered that it sells, not because he “understands” that it actually makes sense. He’ll tell you bozos whatever you want to hear, and he knows that what you want to hear is lots and lots of anti-government nonsense.

“Government coercion,” in this context, is simply more of that hysteria, trying to convince the gullible that Obama’s proper place is in servitude, not in executive decision making. We’ve got ample evidence, throughout the world, that ensuring that all have affordable health care HELPS a society, while setting up a dog-eat-dog anarchy does not.

Whenever someone gets on a soapbox about why it’s wrong not to coddle the rich, I just point out that there’s no shortage of people struggling to GET rich, and there was no shortage of them, either, back when they were expected to pay much higher taxes than they do now.

I think it’s hilarious the way you righties indignantly DEMAND that the rich be allowed to prey off of you, but can’t tolerate the idea of government assistance for the poor. Ignorant and uneducated as he is, Rush has certainly done a thorough job of manipulating you.

Gingivitis Kahn October 29, 2013 at 3:28 am

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Dear Olivia

Tell them! Right on! Speak truth to power! Rush is a thought criminal. He is also a speech criminal. He is spreading lies that peoples do not owe government rent money for priveledge of living in glorious workers paradise this nation will become once we have gone away with all the kapitalist pigdogs, wingernuts and teabloggers. People suffer cruely in the anarchy of a society that leaves them at the mercy of there own decision makeing. Other day my comrade spend hours paralyzed cause he could not decide which shirt to wear or breakfast cerial to eat. This is disgrace. There should be only one shirt! There should only be one cerial! And it is up to people that are experts here to choose!

“trying to convince the gullible that Obama’s proper place is in servitude, not in executive decision making”

Exactly! Obama is boss. Not the people! Yes, you got it right again!

Viva la Olivia

Kahn out!

danybhoy October 29, 2013 at 3:37 am

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It’s funny how El-Rushbo is successful despite being ignorant & uneducated, but all of the people he blasts in DC in both parties, many of whom have graduated from America’s most prestigious universities have done nothing but turn America into a complete clusterfuck. Limbaugh understands what most Ivy Leaguers do not, is that freedom is the solution to the human condition, not a top down massive gov’t that kills incentive & fosters dependency.

Just for the record, I’m lucky to catch his show once a week. He doesn’t manipulate me or anyone else, people tune in because they want his take what’s going on. But what do I know?

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 3:47 am

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It’s funny how El-Rushbo is successful despite being ignorant & uneducated…
***************
Why, no, it’s not. One doesn’t have to be educated to get rich, as successful pimps and drug dealers prove every day of the week. One just has to be good at hawking one’s wares (in this case scary antilib’rul propaganda), and have a gullible customer base.
*******************
, but all of the people he blasts in DC in both parties, many of whom have graduated from America’s most prestigious universities have done nothing but turn America into a complete clusterfuck. Limbaugh understands what most Ivy Leaguers do not, is that freedom is the solution to the human condition, not a top down massive gov’t that kills incentive & fosters dependency.
*****************
“Freedom” is a highly subjective word. When used by the far right, it usually means “Freedom from responsibility for ME, even if it means heavier burdens for YOU.”

There IS no freedom in not having an affordable health care plan. Rather, it means that disaster—-financial and physiological—-could happen at any time, regardless of how careful you are, and you’d be powerless to stop it or prevent it.

Sorry, but that’s no way to ensure the success and strength of this nation in the 21st century. We’re competing against nations who take care of their citizens (and, I might add, those citizens AREN’T demonstrably lazier or more apathetic than those Americans that you righties love to bash), thereby ensuring high productivity of their work force.

GhostntheMachine October 29, 2013 at 3:48 am

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Dittos.
Oh, and nice Kahn job, long time no see.

Kip Hooker October 29, 2013 at 3:49 am

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“Freedom” is a highly subjective word. When used by the far right, it usually means “Freedom from responsibility for ME, even if it means heavier burdens for YOU.”

Yep, that is the exact definition of freedom.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:35 am

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The only thing I will concede to you Livvy, is that in the past, the rich had all the benes of being rich, but they also has some understanding of their responsibilities to the poor, the ill, the widowed (or widiwered), children etc. Not al out care mind you, but they did do much philanthropic work, made donations to organiztions that were doing that job, etc. Now the very rich only want to get richer. Overall, their philanthropy is lacking. Midde class people gie more in money time and talet than the wealthy. If they were doing better jo at THEIR job in the community, we wouldn’t be having thispointless discussion at all.

KimmyQueen November 2, 2013 at 5:53 pm

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For some reason GK’s manifesto seems understandable to me.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 2:52 pm

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It’s funny how El-Rushbo is successful despite being ignorant & uneducated, but all of the people he blasts in DC in both parties, many of whom have graduated from America’s most prestigious universities have done nothing but turn America into a complete clusterfuck. Limbaugh understands what most Ivy Leaguers do not, is that freedom is the solution to the human condition, not a top down massive gov’t that kills incentive & fosters dependency.
***********
Hogwash. Rush is an opiate dependent college dropout with a big mouth, who gets paid megabucks to spew antiliberal drivel on the air. That’s all. If he were as insightful as you say, he’d be doing something more useful then egging on cranks and misfits calling his show and bitching about “blacks,” Muslims, lib’ruls, women, homosexuals, atheists, immigrants and the nonexistent war on Christmas. And every single right wing poster on this board wouldn’t be taking such pains to INSIST that they never listen to him or his show. ;>)

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 11:30 pm

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So how would you describe, say Chris Matthews? Isn’t he just a loudmouth who gets [aid megabucks to pew anti conservative frivel? I don’t listen to either one, but as I watch the Big 3 news, Chris pops up every now and again, and I have never been any more impressed with what was attributed to him as what was attributed to Rusn.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 5:05 am

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So how would you describe, say Chris Matthews? Isn’t he just a loudmouth who gets [aid megabucks to pew anti conservative frivel? I don’t listen to either one, but as I watch the Big 3 news, Chris pops up every now and again, and I have never been any more impressed with what was attributed to him as what was attributed to Rusn.
******************
I really know very little about Chris Matthews, Rose (other than that oft-repeated right wing derision of that comment about the tingle running up his leg). So I have no real opinion of him, pro or con. But let’s not confuse political commentators, no matter how slanted, with talk radio cranks whose only real function is to fan the flames of hatred toward Obama and liberals.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 5:10 am

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Matthews is the same, except he fans the flames of hate against conservatives. He’s no more political commentator than Howdy Doody.

flashingscotsman November 4, 2013 at 8:02 am

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Geeezzzzz, I finally got that turd I’ve been working on all morning.

My Dear Sweet Olivia, if Rush can afford, and he can, to pay for his own medical care, out of pocket, he would not be irresponsible for doing so. Your problem with him doing that isn’t really that he wouldn’t be responsible for his own care, but that he wouldn’t be subsidizing other people’s care.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 8:43 am

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Ok, so you refuse Obamacare, then the IRS fines you. You don’t pay the fine. The IRS puts a lien on your home, then the lien gets bigger over the years, since you continue to refuse Obamacare. Interest and penalties accrue, to the point that the IRS, (who will make their decision based on your political activity), decides the home now belongs to the government, and they pony up one of their SWAT teams to come and take the house. Will they be unarmed?
*****************
Flash, why would they have to send a SWAT team to evict you in the first place?

Sounds like somebody’s been watching some grade Z citizen-against-the-government Hollywood melodramas, and believes they reflect real life. Be that as it may, instead of imagining yourself as a modern day Rambo, why don’t you just take responsibility for your own health care and stop making up all these silly fantasies? If you don’t want “Obamacare,” why, then go to an insurance company on your own, and talk it over with them. Or get off your duff and take a job with an employer who offers medical insurance as a benefit.

You have precious little sympathy for Americans who depend on government social programs, so I have none at all for your desire to avoid taking responsibility for your own health.

Funny how you righties get so much less interested in “Personal Responsibility” when it’s YOU, and not just a bunch of strangers, who’s being called on to exercise it. ;>)

sa_rose November 4, 2013 at 11:25 am

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I guess I am slow on the uptake. I still do not understand why private pay for medical care is irresponsible? Regardless of all the what ifs of developing a chronic disease, having a catastrophic accident, stroke, or what ever, as long as the bill gets paid, it gets paid. So why is paying cash not responsible and paying with insurance is?

flashingscotsman November 4, 2013 at 12:01 pm

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My Dear Sweet Olivia, are you actually claiming that when all the paperwork is filed, and you’ve refused to move from your home which you bought and paid for, the IRS agents, Marshals, Sheriffs, and whatever other LEO show up to forcibly remove you, will be unarmed? Stop the nonsense, and just answer the question. Why do IRS field agents carry weapons, if they’re unarmed, and justice isn’t served at the end of a gun barrel?

GhostntheMachine November 4, 2013 at 12:10 pm

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From a ‘reputable’ source, as per you,
Rep. Jeff Duncan wants to know why IRS law enforcement agents are training with AR-15 rifles
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/jeff-duncan-irs-rifle-training-92662.html

From your gov’t
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=8d3b076bd4de14bbda5aba699e80621d&tab=core&_cview=1&cck=1&au=&ck=

“The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) intends to purchase sixty Remington Model 870 Police RAMAC #24587 12 gauge pump-action shotguns for the Criminal Investigation Division.”

sa_rose November 4, 2013 at 12:26 pm

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http://youtu.be/_u6cKd3WCIU

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 1:12 pm

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Yep, sounds like the IRS is coming unarmed.
Justice at the end of a bubble wand!

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 4:46 pm

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Rose, don’t you understand? Paying for yourself is irresponsible because you’re not paying for the recipient class! Personal responsibility is racist and greedy.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 7:53 am

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The only thing I will concede to you Livvy, is that in the past, the rich had all the benes of being rich, but they also has some understanding of their responsibilities to the poor, the ill, the widowed (or widiwered), children etc. Not al out care mind you, but they did do much philanthropic work, made donations to organiztions that were doing that job, etc. Now the very rich only want to get richer. Overall, their philanthropy is lacking. Midde class people gie more in money time and talet than the wealthy. If they were doing better jo at THEIR job in the community, we wouldn’t be having thispointless discussion at all.
************
As usual, Rose, I agree with parts of your post but not all of it.

Yes, in the past the rich have been active in philanthropy. That’s great for things like opera, ballet, the arts, endowing private schools, setting up community programs like Hull House in Chicago. The problem is that, when charity is expected to take the place of social programs, the donor gets to choose where his/her donations go. Which means that some programs will be very generously endowed, and other go without funding.

We saw this a century or so ago, during the so-called Gilded Age. Millionaire industrialists built and financed wonderful museums and theatres and hospitals, but meanwhile child labor continued, immigrant families were stuffed into tiny, unsanitary tenements and worked in firetraps for pennies a day, and factories and coal mines continued to be dangerous, unhealthy places to work.

I agree that the very rich want to get richer, but that’s always been true of the very rich. People seldom just fall into immense fortunes. Usually they work for them, and they keep on getting richer because they’ve made accumulating wealth a high priority in their lives.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at, when you comment that “middle class” people should be “doing better at THEIR job in the community.” Are you saying that working people don’t work hard enough, or that they don’t give enough to charitable causes?

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 9:05 am

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I am saying if the VERY WEALTHY were doing more on their end, it would alleviate much suffering. I applaud Bill Gates charitable work, but it would be nice if he did some of it here at home. Wehave unvaccinated children, children i decrepitand ineffective schools and most not for progit charitable hospitls are stretching to make ends come close to meeting. Oprah could build a school here, instead of in Africa (or in addition to.) Everyone buys NIKE, at otrageous prices, while the shoes are made in sweat shops much like you describe here. Coal mining is still one of the most dangerous professions, not to mention that the current method of mining destroys the entire area. Quit putting you nose in the air and thinking we are all ignorant boobs. You need to get out and about a bit before you comment on any of this. You areanive or just plain stupid.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 5:16 am

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But he understands, & she don’t, that gov’t coercion leads to the end of a gun. If she don’t understand that, then she is beyond help. She seems to believe in the big lie of better living through state control. I never have, & I never will.
****************
Sorry, Dany, but ALL communities require some rules, and some responsibilities, from their members, if they’re to survive and thrive. If you don’t believe this, try keeping a class full of middle school kids on task for an hour, after you’ve declared that you can’t and won’t “coerce” them into doing anything they don’t feel like doing. Or try sharing your home with a couple of untrained dogs for a week.

What you’re calling “coercion” (stolen, no doubt, from some libertarian screed) is actually nothing more than a series of flexible boundaries. And, come on! The “gunpoint” comment is as hysterical as it is untrue. No one has proposed making failure to get enrolled in health care a shootable offense. But there are consequences for refusing to accept social responsibility when you live in a society. That’s one of the prices you pay for choosing to live in this great nation, and enjoying all the privileges thereof.

flashingscotsman November 4, 2013 at 8:34 am

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Ok, so you refuse Obamacare, then the IRS fines you. You don’t pay the fine. The IRS puts a lien on your home, then the lien gets bigger over the years, since you continue to refuse Obamacare. Interest and penalties accrue, to the point that the IRS, (who will make their decision based on your political activity), decides the home now belongs to the government, and they pony up one of their SWAT teams to come and take the house. Will they be unarmed?

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 12:55 pm

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But clearly you DO think that some 49% or more of the population should be exempt from purchasing their own insurance, and want us to do it for them,. Isnt that reverse discrimination?

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 2:40 pm

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It’s not discrimination, “reverse” or otherwise, if the same standards are applied to all. In other words, those whose income is too low to afford to buy insurance qualify for Medicaid, just as those who aren’t physically or mentally capable of holding a job qualify for disability.

You get disability; I don’t. That doesn’t mean that the government is discriminating against me, because I know that, if I ever have disabilities similar to yours, I, too, will qualify.

And, by the way, just because a gossipy bystander wishes to believe that a particular individual or group doesn’t qualify, doesn’t mean that they’re gaming the system. In many cases, it just means that the gossipy bystander thinks s/he knows more than s/he does about a person, just by glancing at him/her.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm

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DEUCE TURDS!

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 11:32 pm

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Or maybe she knows exactly what she’s talking about because she is educated, intelligent, experienced and observant of those around her and their behaviour/

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 6:11 am

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Unless she has access to that person’s private records, she does NOT know what she’s talking about. She’s merely making guesses, based on what she wants to believe about the person.

You claim to be a nurse (and regularly insult me by accusing me of incompetence). Well, one thing I learned in nursing classes, a couple of eons ago, is that you do a methodical assessment of the patient rather than jumping to conclusions about his or her general condition. In other words, you don’t assume that a patient is faking her abdominal pain, just because the stomach aches you’ve had weren’t that bad; and you don’t assume that a patient is a “drug seeker” just because he’s got a tattoo or long hair.

You did learn that in nursing school, didn’t you?So why would you jump to conclusions about a person whom you DON’T have the opportunity to examine?

poppajoe49 November 5, 2013 at 6:30 am

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Since you have no TV, you have obviously never watched House.
One thing that I have found to be amazing is the one thing they keep reminding us of, and that is that patients never really tell the truth. Therefore you have to use a certain amount of insight and observation in order to make a diagnosis.

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 7:17 am

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Since you have no TV, you have obviously never watched House.
One thing that I have found to be amazing is the one thing they keep reminding us of, and that is that patients never really tell the truth. Therefore you have to use a certain amount of insight and observation in order to make a diagnosis.
************
True—-I’ve never watched House. I never saw even one episode of ER, either, even when we had TV.

I wouldn’t say that patients ALWAYS lie, but it’s absolutely true that some do sometimes. (I’ve heard some real whoppers from people hoping to get “the good stuff” through the IV, for example.) You listen to the patient while you’re examining him/her; and, when what s/he tells you isn’t consistent with what you’re seeing and hearing and feeling and smelling, you’ve got to consider the possibilities that s/he’s mistaken or lying, or that you’re misunderstanding him/her.

Sometimes you collect all these observations and data, and make a decision based on them, and that decision still turns out to be wrong. So, as I said before, it’s pointless to make guesses about a person’s character or home or financial situation, based only on outward appearance.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:18 am

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The nursing process which has been forever engraved on my brain cells, involves collecting data from many soources, grouping that data, then drawing a conclusion about the data. There is a lot of conversation in a food stamp office, and very close quarters. One can not only participate in some conversations, and obtain data directly in that way, but also overhear far more than you ever wanted to know, providing another data base. Same with home health patients, clinic patients, ED patients, etc. When you get it from the horse’s mouth, it has a slightly higher chance of being true. Especially if the client is bragging, as opposed to trying to convince you they really don’t drink that much (or whatevr)

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 4:06 am

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those whose income is too low to afford to buy insurance qualify for Medicaid

Then, why did we need Obamacare? Medicaid doesn’t reject you for pre-existing conditions.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 4:49 am

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Because not everyone who’s in narrow financial straits qualifies for Medicaid, that’s why.

Because, prior to health care reform, many Americans COULDN’T get affordable health care, due to pre existing conditions.

Because “Obamacare” ensures that young adults under the age of 26 can still get affordable insurance through their parents, thus allowing them to go to school or work at jobs that don’t provide benefits, without burdening taxpayers.

Because part of health care reform (aka “Obamacare,” just in case you’re one of those Obamaphobes who doesn’t realize they’re one and the same) includes the EXPANSION of Medicaid, to allow more of the poor to be covered.

Because Medicaid is largely under the control of the individual state, thereby allowing a spiteful or corrupt state government to withhold it from the people. Some red states are, in fact, doing just that, in their effort to sabotage reform.

Because people like your wife are still uninsured, regardless of those other options, and therefore still pose a threat to all of us, who would have to foot the bill if she ended up with a catastrophic illness or injury that you were unable to pay for out of pocket. “Obamacare” provides more options for her.

In short, because 1/6 of the population was without health care of any kind, despite the existence of Medicaid, private insurance policies and group insurance through one’s job. The idea of “Obamacare” is to get these people insured, so the rest of us aren’t stuck paying their bills if and when they get sick.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 5:04 am

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But, it’s not affordable, the only people paying less are the ones with preexisting conditions, everyone else is paying more, AND there is still a gap where people can’t get insurance because they don’t qualify for subsidies, and can’t afford full price, so they’ll have to go without.
Plus, the president who said “If you like your doctor/insurance, you keep your doctor/insurance PERIOD” knowingly lied in order to get the law passed.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 5:58 am

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But, it’s not affordable, the only people paying less are the ones with preexisting conditions, everyone else is paying more, AND there is still a gap where people can’t get insurance because they don’t qualify for subsidies, and can’t afford full price, so they’ll have to go without.
Plus, the president who said “If you like your doctor/insurance, you keep your doctor/insurance PERIOD” knowingly lied in order to get the law passed.
*************
Not true, Poopajoe. That’s this week’s trendy argument that right wingers are dutifully repeating all over the internet, but it’s based on a faulty premise.

The president did NOT lie. If you look at the context of his remark, he was merely correcting the misconception (again fostered by the right wing media) that “Obamacare” means that everyone in the U.S. is going to have to turn in their current health care plan and accept whatever the government assigns to them.

OF COURSE that’s nonsense. Those of us with existing plans are free to keep them, just so long as they conform to certain regulations designed to protect the consumer.

It’s the right who DEMANDED that health care be left in the hands of for-profit insurance companies, which means that they fought to keep business decisions OUT of the hands of the government. Well, you got your wish: aside from those few new regulations, the government does NOT control what insurance companies may do to enhance profits. So, if you perceive these “Obamacare” options as being unfair to the consumer, blame the insurance industry, not the president.

What’s funny is that, so far, virtually every gripe you righties have managed to invent about “Obamacare” could be fixed, just by going to universal coverage. But the insurance industry has spent a bundle trying to convince you that they can be trusted to do right by you, even though they’re a for-profit business, not a humanitarian organization. And, among right wingers, at least, they succeeded in that effort.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 6:27 am

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From the horses ass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk

flashingscotsman November 4, 2013 at 8:38 am

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My Dear Sweet Olivia, no matter how fast it’s spinning, it’s still a lie.

flashingscotsman November 4, 2013 at 8:34 pm

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Oh, I see. Now I understand. What he MEANT to say was, if you like your plan, AND I LIKE YOUR PLAN, you can keep your plan. Well, he just kinda left out that little detail.
And of course, you can only keep it temporarily. He DID also say that the intention was to go to single payer, but it would take a while.

poppajoe49 November 5, 2013 at 4:52 am

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The website debacle will fast-track single payer. Then we can all see what it’s like to get healthcare in Cuba and Somalia.

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 6:52 am

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But, it’s not affordable, the only people paying less are the ones with preexisting conditions, everyone else is paying more, AND there is still a gap where people can’t get insurance because they don’t qualify for subsidies, and can’t afford full price, so they’ll have to go without.
Plus, the president who said “If you like your doctor/insurance, you keep your doctor/insurance PERIOD” knowingly lied in order to get the law passed.
**************
No, he didn’t say “period.” Once again, Poopajoe, instead of playing those childish Turd games, why don’t you read what I’ve posted so I don’t have to keep repeating it when you ask the same questions 10 times?

One more time: Obama did not promise you or anyone else that you could have any doctor you wanted, and any plan you wanted, for whatever price you wanted to pay. His “If you like your doctor, you can keep him/her” comment was in response to a right wing canard that was circulating, suggesting that the ACA meant that your current plan would be discarded, and you would be assigned a new doctor by the government.

Yes, it’s true that some people haven’t been able to keep their current doctor and plan. But that has little or nothing to do with the government—-it’s almost exclusively the result of private business decisions.

There are at least two reasons for these problems:

1) Many Americans currently have junk insurance plans, that come at a “bargain” price but cover next to no medical expenses. They’re basically a scam, and because of that, they’re no longer legal.

2) In some cases, insurance companies are telling clients that these policies have been discontinued, and then giving them a sales pitch to buy a much more expensive one, instead of referring them to the health care exchange. Clients are complaining that insurance costs are through the roof, or that there are too many restrictions to these policies, but they often don’t realize that there are much less expensive options on the exchange.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/10/31/how-a-wildly-misleading-obamacare-horror-story-is-born/

http://on.aol.com/video/insurance-companies-misleading-customers-to-push-expensive-plans-517999577
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-

Here’s the myth (which I’m sure you’ve heard over and over—–>
style/health/obama-affordable-health-care-act-dooms-die-patient-article-1.1506639

And here’s the myth debunked (which I’m equally sure you never heard at all)—>
http://aattp.org/another-obamacare-insurance-loss-debunked-real-story-wsj-cancer-patient/

poppajoe49 November 5, 2013 at 7:13 am

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No, he didn’t say “period.”

WRONG AGAIN!!!
You really need to get your TV out of mothballs, and see what the MSM is saying, or better yet, listen to Obama himself……..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDoA_vTxklI

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 7:31 am

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The website debacle will fast-track single payer. Then we can all see what it’s like to get healthcare in Cuba and Somalia.
**************
No, not really. Most of Somalia’s health care is provided by business and private donations. You know, the kind of system you righties would like to see here in the U.S. And, because it’s dominated by private sector interests, it’s (compared to the average income of Somali residents) very, very costly. So it has nothing, really, to do with socialized medicine. http://gis.emro.who.int/HealthSystemObservatory/PDF/Somalia/Health%20system%20organization.pdf

Cuba DOES have socialized medicine, of course. But, in the WHO’s health care rankings, it’s only two places below the much wealthier U.S., which is far below all those western European countries the right dearly loves to scorn.

Mind you, I’m not talking about quality of medical technology. The best we have here in the U.S. is as good as (or better than) that of any system in the world. The problem with our health care system (and why we’re ranked so low) is that too many Americans are locked out of it.

poppajoe49 November 5, 2013 at 3:25 pm

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Ok, I was guessing on Somalia, based on how everything else is there.
I did notice, however that you ran as fast as possible from your insisting that Obama never said “period”.
Video really sucks, doesn’t it? :-D

KimmyQueen November 5, 2013 at 7:29 pm

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Poppa, You would think they will train the trolls better and at least tell THEM the lies that Obama told… I mean seriously!

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 3:50 am

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Of course he should.

Why would you even try to suggest that Rush Limbaugh should be above the law?

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 4:57 am

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No, Dany. He should be “forced” to buy it as a condition of his RESIDENCE in the U.S.

In other words, if he chooses to enjoy the benefits of living here in the U.S., citizen or no citizen, he needs to follow the same rules as everyone else who lives here. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 5:09 am

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But, nobody HAS to buy it, they can opt out, just like the top hospitals are doing.

Olivia November 4, 2013 at 5:30 am

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But, nobody HAS to buy it, they can opt out, just like the top hospitals are doing.
**************
As I already pointed out to you, Poopajoe, the article that you cited was too vague to take as gospel on that point. It didn’t even address the biggest obstacle—-existing federal EMTALA laws—–to rejecting selected patients, based strictly on financial circumstances.

poppajoe49 November 4, 2013 at 6:12 am

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Then you didn’t read the article, and Rose addressed that point, hospitals can reject patients any time they want except as an emergency, then they can transfer a stabilized patient to a county hospital. If you don’t believe it, just ask Michelle Obama, she is well known for doing that.

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 6:58 am

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Then you didn’t read the article, and Rose addressed that point, hospitals can reject patients any time they want except as an emergency, then they can transfer a stabilized patient to a county hospital. If you don’t believe it, just ask Michelle Obama, she is well known for doing that.
**************
Wrong on both points. Hospitals cannot “dump” patients on other facilities, especially if their decision to do so has anything to do with the patient’s ability to pay. Can’t do it, Poopajoe!—-and any hospital that tries to pull such a maneuver (unless there’s a good reason for the transfer, such as patient request, or need for a higher level of care) is quickly slapped with a big fine and reprimand from the government.

Michelle Obama’s job at U of C hospital had absolutely nothing to do with discharging or transferring patients. Those decisions are made by the patient’s physician or the patient (or legally authorized representative) himself. Again, you’ve been duped by a particularly stupid lie.

poppajoe49 November 5, 2013 at 7:17 am
sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:25 am

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And again, you are delusional. Private hospitals transfere patients with limited financial resources to public facilities every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Maybe you have a state thing that prevents that, but its done all over the country,

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 3:44 am

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And again, you are delusional. Private hospitals transfere patients with limited financial resources to public facilities every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Maybe you have a state thing that prevents that, but its done all over the country,
**************
Not when the transferring hospital is one that receives Medicare reimbursement, unless the transfer is requested by the patient or his/her legal representative. Federal law.

ttp://www.irmi.com/online/insurance-glossary/terms/p/patient-dumping.aspx

http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover/ftp/emtala-draft.pdf <——Detailed explanation of how EMTALA works, and what it entails. Note that it does NOT just pertain to ER or hemodynamically unstable patients. See page 16 in particular.

Look at any EMTALA transfer form from a hospital that's eligible for Medicare reimbursement, Rose. It requires the nurse or doctor to check the appropriate box designating the reason for transfer, and "patient uninsured" isn't one of the options. "Patient request," "higher level of care," and "requires treatment unavailable at present facility" are the most common reasons for transfers.

You can't even use "Hospital filled to capacity" for an excuse, unless the hospital has already contacted the state requesting bypass status (and produced evidence that it's truly out of beds). This is a huge step to take and most hospitals will avoid it like the plague, because refusing patients can reflect badly on the hospital's reputation. In any case, you NEVER ship out an indigent patient to make room for a well-insured one. Very bad practice, and illegal as well.

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 3:59 am

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http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/02/20/michelle-obamas-patient-dumping-scheme/
************
And, once again, the inappropriately named “American Thinker” posts a pack of lies and half truths, and Poopajoe swallows it unquestioningly.

That non-scandal is well known to liberals, Poopajoe. Only difference is, most of us tookt he trouble to check out the whole story, rather than swallowing malicious gossip.

Michelle Obama did nothing worse than any other hospital administrator does, in an effort to relieve ER congestion, Poopajoe. She proposed and encouraged satellite clinics, that’s all. My own hospital has satellite walk-in clinics, and we regularly encourage people to use them. It’s cheaper; it’s often more convenient (depending on where the patient is coming from); and it frees up the ER for bona fide emergencies requiring hospital resources. Tell me why you think that’s a bad thing.

No doubt you’re going to parrot that anecdote so beloved of Obamaphobes, about the kid with the lip laceration at the U of C ER, who was sent on the bus to another clinic, without the laceration having been sutured. Well, aside from one clinical consideration not taken into account by accusers—-that standard practice is to leave such lacerations open, to minimize the likelihood of anaerobic infection—–Michelle Obama was not employed by or in the ER, and didn’t have the authority to make decisions regarding the disposition of patients there. That’s a clinical decision, made by the ER physican. Michelle Obama would have no more to do with that decision than she would with a decision to take an ICU patient to surgery.

Oh, but don’t let facts or logics stop you. It’s well known how you righties try to hold the Obamas personally accountable for every bad thing that happens in the U.S., whether or not they knew anything about it or could have done anything to stop it. Just as you refuse to hold Bush accountable for ANY bad decisions or actions he took during his administration.

flashingscotsman November 7, 2013 at 7:10 am

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Another turd! Starting my weekend off right!

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:39 pm

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I they have medicaid/medicare they have financial resources. Mayabe not as much as a privately insured patient, but they DO have some payment ability. And not all hospitals take those funds, and are therefore not required to take stable, non emergent patients. THey may stabilize in the ED, then are shipped out to a public hospital if available.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:24 am

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And get the living S*** fined out of them, plus ever increasing penalties, up to and including jail time. I on’t think hospital Boards or CEO’s get jailed for opting out.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:33 am
sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:22 am

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Again, as long as he is able to pay for his own care (responsible) why should he be penalyzed? This is why so many Attorneys General felt the law was unconstitutional. And that is still being debated before the SCOTUS. THe only thing previously decided was that a penalty for not enrolling could be seen as a tax, and that therefore was constitutional. Many other aspects of he act, including the actual requirement to participate is still up in the air.

KimmyQueen November 5, 2013 at 7:31 pm

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Because it is not fair that he gets to have it easy while others don’t. It is not really irresponsibility that is an issue here is “fairness”. However if he was a liberal this wouldn’t be an issue.

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:42 pm

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Life ain’t fair. *SOB* You right Kimmy. What it boils down to is it isn’t “fair” for so to be able to pay out of pocket, while others have to pay for insurance. Mind you I am not saying no insurance should be available to folks, but if someone is fortunate enough not to require insurance, then that’s fine with me.

Not so silent November 7, 2013 at 8:46 pm

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A fair is a place you go to ride the rides, eat cotton candy and step in monkey poo….life is not fair no matter how many rules the demotards create..

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 3:23 am

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True, Rose, life isn’t fair. But that fact isn’t a very convincing excuse to refuse to work toward justice and equal opportunity for all.

I think it’s as funny as all get-out that you righties do so much screaming and crying over the idea of someone getting a $400-per-month “welfare” benefit, but have no problem at all with some guy finding out the hard way (i.e, through expensive catastrophic illness or injury) that EVERYONE “requires” health insurance.

Then, again, you have socialized medicine, as does Poopajoe—-so what do you care if the rest of us have to pick up the tab for such cases?

sa_rose November 8, 2013 at 11:59 am

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What on earth are you even talking about, Olivia? I noted that the Left seems to have issues with peope who can pay cash for their care, rather than buy insurance. I am not objecting to those who need iurance being able to get it. You are solooking for an argument, that you complete twisted what I was saying (TO KIMMY, incidentally, not you.) Hermother IS payng for others care. Its how insurance works to some extent. Its just that before Obamacare (and the resultant changes in and excessive cost of policies) there used to be some choice. Now there is none.

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm

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What on earth are you even talking about, Olivia? I noted that the Left seems to have issues with peope who can pay cash for their care, rather than buy insurance. I am not objecting to those who need iurance being able to get it. You are solooking for an argument, that you complete twisted what I was saying (TO KIMMY, incidentally, not you.) Hermother IS payng for others care. Its how insurance works to some extent. Its just that before Obamacare (and the resultant changes in and excessive cost of policies) there used to be some choice. Now there is none.
********
Wrong again, Rose. WHERE are you getting all these lies?

There is still plenty of “choice” out there. In fact, for people with pre-existing conditions, there’s more “choice” than ever, since many of those people couldn’t get insurance at all before. But you’ve bought into some sensational right wing “Ain’t it awful” anecdotes about people whose rates went way up, and immediately assumed the worst. Even though at least some of those stories were immediately debunked, when it turned out that the people in question hadn’t even bothered to look at the options.

The “why can’t people just be self pay if they want to?” argument is just illogical, and certainly someone like you, who claims to be a nurse and have some serious medical issues, should be able to see the problem with it. It’s also laughably transparent, since just a few months ago all you anti-reform people were saying “DON’T YOU REALIZE THIS COUNTRY IS BROKE????”

If you’re truly that worried about the nation’s economic well-being, then you wouldn’t be defending the notion of people gambling with their health (and economic stability!) by boycotting insurance. Truth is, you care only about sticking it to Obama, regardless of consequences. And, after all, what do you care if someone else suffers longterm consequences from being uninsured? You’ve got yours.

sa_rose November 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm

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Lying bitch. I NEVER SAID TO BOYCOT INSURANCE. You must have heard that from the voices in your head. Go back and reread the . Post for comprehension, since you clearly did NOT understand a nd anything about it!

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 3:38 am

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Again, as long as he is able to pay for his own care (responsible) why should he be penalyzed?
**********************
Because many who THINK they can pay for their own care find out the hard way that wishful thinking alone won’t keep you healthy.

Because U.S. health care is much, much more expensive (I’m talking 10 times as expensive in the ER, at least) than it is in other countries.

Because our current patchwork system is easy for freeloaders to abuse, and they most definitely DO abuse it.

Because, too often, people who THINK they “don’t require health care” find out that they’re wrong, when a minor or routine emergency exposes problems they never suspected they had. And, too often, these problems are the kind that become more difficult (and expensive) to treat, if they’re not caught early.

Because the #1 cause for personal bankruptcy in this country is medical bills.

Because just saying “It can’t happen to me” or “Well, I’ve been pretty healthy so far, so I guess nothing’s going to happen” isn’t the same thing as taking responsibility for one’s own health care.

Because it’s irresponsible to take risks with one’s own health, especially if those risks are likely to impact the rest of us. Why should I pay higher prices, just because other people chose to avoid responsibility, got seriously ll, and ended up with a half-million dollar medical bill they couldn’t afford to pay?

Now, tell me YOUR reasons for believing that it’s more fiscally responsible to be in denial, and then look to the government or the public to foot the bill when it turns out that the denier isn’t as healthy as he wanted to think he was.

sa_rose November 8, 2013 at 12:02 pm

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Because our current patchwork system is easy for freeloaders to abuse, and they most definitely DO abuse it.

And is this what we have been saying all along? Veru conservative coment Livvy. Welcome to the dark side! HAHAHAHAHA. And when I referred tothose able to pay for their wn care, I was thinking the Kennedys, Hollywood celebraties, Sports stars, Business folk like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. I promis you, they have enough to cover whatever would happen to them. Steve Jobs certainly did!

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 12:28 pm

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Because our current patchwork system is easy for freeloaders to abuse, and they most definitely DO abuse it.

And is this what we have been saying all along? Veru conservative coment Livvy.
***********
Not true, Rose. It’s just a fact, and has nothing to do with political affiliation.

You think conservatives have a monopoly on concern about abuse. Well, they don’t. Everyone worries about waste of money and resources—–it’s just that we have different ways of addressing the problem.

As usual, I look at it from a problem solving perspective, trying to identify causes and contributing factors, and then figuring out a plan from that information. Whereas most of the right wingers here seem only interested in bitching and punishing. Which solves nothing, except to feed their own egos—-which is usually all they wanted in the first place.

Joe Redfield October 20, 2013 at 7:45 am

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Tick…tick…tick…

PsychoDad October 20, 2013 at 9:49 am

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Ha! We have ways of making you tock!

poppajoe49 October 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm

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BOOM!

Joe Redfield October 21, 2013 at 1:14 pm

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Not yet…but soon.

Red Robster October 22, 2013 at 10:30 am

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yeah, after the ululations.

AZ Dude October 20, 2013 at 7:52 am

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Bbbut surely it’s those greedy insurance companies’ fault. It simply cannot be the fault of Obamacare!

Be careful what you wish for, progressives. . .’cuz you are now getting it!

stinkfoot October 20, 2013 at 8:48 am

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“surely it’s those greedy insurance companies’ fault.”

That’s most likely part of the script moving forward- it’s not like these demagogues haven’t played class warfare games before.

stinkfoot October 20, 2013 at 9:18 am

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…and don’t call me Shirley.

AZ Dude October 21, 2013 at 4:28 pm

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“Quick. What can you make of this?”
“I can make a broach. Or a hat. . . “

Red Robster October 22, 2013 at 10:33 am

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And Leon is getting laaaaaaargerrrrrr.

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 7:01 am

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I don’t know about anyone else, Robster, but I want to see socialized medicine instituted in the U.S.

And I will live to see it, as you will, too. It’s as inevitable as the horseless carriage, no matter how hard you fight to keep us in the horse-and-buggy era.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:37 am

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Weknow you want ocialized medicine. YOu have made thatabundantly clear. And tht doesn’t make you any smarter, or “righter” than those who DON’T want socialized medicine. There are problems with our healthcae sstem inthe US. Those problems mainly revolve around access. Our actual healtcare is the best in the world. I just do not think that socialized medicine, espectially as outline in Obama care, is going to increase accress for those who need it most. And so far, that is roving to be true. Simple fact, that you can’t spin. People who HAD insurance are losing it, andmany cannot afford the cost of the new ppolicies being offered. I wait to see how tax credits or subsidies or whatever ar going to impact tat fact.

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 12:07 pm

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Weknow you want ocialized medicine. YOu have made thatabundantly clear. And tht doesn’t make you any smarter, or “righter” than those who DON’T want socialized medicine.
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Actually, it does make me smarter than those who have never witnessed or received socialized medicine, and swallow every horror story they hear about it.
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There are problems with our healthcae sstem inthe US. Those problems mainly revolve around access.
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And the GOP has done absolutely nothing about that, Rose, except to spread the word that those who can’t access affordable health care are too lazy and ornery to deserve it. What does that tell you about their priorities? It tells me that they don’t WANT change. Except, of course, changes that promise to provide enormous monetary benefits to the insurance industry.
**************
Our actual healtcare is the best in the world. I just do not think that socialized medicine, espectially as outline in Obama care, is going to increase accress for those who need it most. And so far, that is roving to be true. Simple fact, that you can’t spin. People who HAD insurance are losing it, andmany cannot afford the cost of the new ppolicies being offered.
**************
But, Rose, that has nothing to do with socialized medicine. That is a direct result of BUSINESS decisions.

Again, it’s pretty comical to see the same people who boast about their patriotism express certainty that the U.S. is incapable of doing what many other nations have been doing successfully for decades, at a fraction of the cost we’re paying, and with similar or better patient outcomes. Especially when some of those people have no problem accepting their own “socialized” benefits.
**************
I wait to see how tax credits or subsidies or whatever ar going to impact tat fact.
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If only. But you’re NOT ‘waiting to see’ it before making all kinds of predictions. You’re just repeating what right wing pundits are saying, and they, of course, have a vested interest in discrediting this president.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 12:44 pm

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Busincesss decidions that affect the availablity of healthcare Does “have some thing to do with socialized nedicine” or tyou wouldn’t be whiining about the insurance companies. I grew up in the military. I have 13 yearsof experience (good and bad) wit socialized medicine. How long were you under socialized medcal care? The GOP hasnever accused those who cannot afford health insurance as either greedy or lazy to the best of my knowlege. You are foing to have to come up with a reference for that one. A link to Youtube, an article, a book, something. As far as benefitting from Insurance companies, there are as many Democrats as Republicans holding shares in insurance companies, and Democrats have done their fair share of favorng business over individuals. They talk a good game, but when the votes come in, the Lobbyists are the ones that win. With BOTH parties. Get your head out of your ass, quit assuming that anything from the Democratic Party is direct from GOD and try to look at things objectively. I appreciate you are ignorant about many things (as evidencd by the psts you have left hee) but make sme effort.

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 5:50 am

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The GOP hasnever accused those who cannot afford health insurance as either greedy or lazy to the best of my knowlege.
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“The best of your knowledge” tends to be rather selective, Rose. A few years ago, before “Obamacare” became a reality, a LOT of Republicans were arguing that health care benefits were properly the domain of employers, because that would help force the lazy and shiftless to go get jobs.

Once “Obamacare” actually passed, they did one of their usual flip flops, and started arguing that it wasn’t fair for employers to have to bear that burden. (Anything to discredit Obamacare, you know.) But it’s certainly true that many right wingers have said to me, “If they can’t get insurance through their employer, it’s probably because they’re too lazy to go out and get a good job with benefits.” Certainly, they DON’T customarily blame the employer (think WalMart and McDonald’s) for refusing to provide affordable insurance. It’s almost always blamed on the employee.

MGAP November 7, 2013 at 10:09 am

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You really are too stupid to have a debate with. I bet you think you’ll get a raise once ACA is fully implemented. Everyone will get pay cuts to help pay for soaring medical costs. Enjoy yours asshole.

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 11:32 am

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No, MGAP, it never even occurred to me to expect a raise as a result of the ACA. Hospitals are run as businesses these days, and they’re not going to hand out raises to staff if they don’t have to.

I just do my job, and expect decent compensation in return.

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:44 pm

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I set it up. Somene grab it!

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:43 pm

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LINK? I didn’t think so. YOu are blowing smoke again. (still)

MGAP October 20, 2013 at 8:01 am

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I got nothing constructive to add here. Sooooooooo

Neener neener neener, told you so, told you so, neener neener neener

Buahahahahahahahahah

MGAP October 20, 2013 at 8:10 am

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Oh, and I hope you have to sell your Prius to afford that free healthcare. Enjoy riding the bus, asshole!

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 11:34 am

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Who said anything about “free” health care OR a Prius, MGAP?

In fact, it’s the antireform right, not I, who assume health care is “free” if you just go to the ER and demand it. Pretty naive expectation, but Rush claims it’s so, so they believe it. ;>)

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:45 pm

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And agaion, I dn’t think ED’s should be used as primary care, and I certainly don’t thinks it is free for anyone. So again, delusional!

I set it up again. Where are you Sidekick, Poppa or flash? Kimmy? Someone grab it!

Sidekick October 20, 2013 at 8:37 am

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It is much easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

Mark Twain.

poppajoe49 October 20, 2013 at 11:22 pm

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I wonder if there will be any posts here when Oblivious loses her insurance.

sa_rose October 22, 2013 at 9:47 am

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Of course not. I am not sure I believe her claim that nothing in her insurance has canged either, she thinks Obama is the messiah, and he can do no wrong. he would support executions if he recommended them, and would volunteer to be first, just to show her devotion.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 8:35 am

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Don’t be ridiculous, Rose. I’ve told you often enough that I’d really prefer “socialized” medicine. In fact, most of the arguments I’ve seen from far righters on this thread make an excellent case for socialized medicine.

That ignorant “messiah” comment is an invention of Rush Limbaugh’s, in a lame attempt to slam Obama’s popularity with most Americans. I think it’s too funny for words that so many of you parrot it constantly; yet deny that you listen to Limbaugh. ;>)

PsychoDad October 28, 2013 at 8:42 am

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Well you know where to go get all the socialist medicine you can handle. Bye.

PsychoDad October 28, 2013 at 8:43 am

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PS — what’s with ;>) ?

Some kind of Tourette’s Syndrome?

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 12:37 pm

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Once again, for the memory impaired, I don”tlisten to Rush. I use the term Messiah based on the whole hearted support of any whacked out idea Obama has, the acceptance of lies which have been clearly revealed and documented, and the disbelief that their might possibily be other lies, more heinous thant the ones known. It is like a cult member with their “messiah” leader.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 1:54 pm

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Nonsense, Rose. You’re parroting the far right party line, which was largely written by Rush Limbaugh, silly “messiah” comment and all.

In any case, since when did supporting the president become “cult” behavior? What’s ludicrous about your mutterings of “heinous lies” is the fact that Obama is really pretty much a centrist. He’s had to be. But you’ve swallowed so much far right (and—dare I say it?—-RACIST propaganda) that anyone to the left of Reagan is immediately regarded as a dangerous radical.

I can’t help chuckling at the right’s hysterical insistence that there’s something “heinous” about Obama wanting to make affordable health care within everyone’s reach. It says something about YOUR character, that you feel that’s a bad idea. Or at least about your gullibility.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 3:39 am

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Gee, it must be awfully hard to be so fucking smart that you know what’s in someone’s mind that they don’t.
How do you do it? Actually put thoughts that aren’t there in a persons head?
Is it possible that you’re just another fucking know it all, who doesn’t know shit?
Makes more sense, doesn’t it?

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 3:53 am

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Gee, it must be awfully hard to be so fucking smart that you know what’s in someone’s mind that they don’t.
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It’s easy to know what you’re thinking, Poopajoe, whether or not you’ll admit that I’m right about it.

First, virtually everything you say is straight out of the latest FAUX News and/or Rush Limbaugh playbook. (Rush has transcripts of his latest shows on his website, so it’s all right there to see, newly coined buzzwords and all.)

And, second, whenever I score a bulls-eye that you can’t dispute, you suddenly disappear from the discussion. Either that, or you fling a lot of silly insults to save your pride.

It’s not about thinking I’m “so fucking smart.” Your reactions are pretty typical for anyone whose arguments are fueled by bravado, but little or no actual insight.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:00 am

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As Rose said, for the mentally impared, I don’t listen to Rush, I also don’t have any idea what his website address is, so I don’t read his transcripts. I do talk with other people about this travesty of a president, and maybe I get some of those words from them. People here admit they listen to Rush, maybe I got some of these words from them. Did you ever think about that? Hell no! You’re a fucking know it all and once you have some stupid idea in your head, nothing can get it out!
Also, I never disappeared from a discussion, you do that. I just don’t have as much free time to waste as you do, so I actually am not here 24-7 like you are.
Go fuck yourself.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:45 am

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You’ve disappeared from discussions after being owned by Poppa, or Sidekick more times than I can count. Pot? Meet kettle.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:43 am

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But look at the healthcare nightmare ALREADY! It ISN”T making healthcare in everyone’s reach. It is causing some who HAD insurance (which is really what this is about, not healthcare) to lose it, and in some cases, to be unable to afford replacing their old insurance with a similar new insurance. Not every state will have healthcare exchanges. What happens to those people? And the cost of Obaacare is now covered by the Federal Government (or so they say) but eventually will devolve to the states. How will tey finance it. Tey can’t even finance decent schools!. And I am NOT racist, you stupid bitch! I married across racial lines, idiot! Just because Obama sucks doesn’t mean I don’tlike black people!

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 5:57 pm

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I didn’t say you’re racist, Rose. But it is pretty obvious that racism is a big factor in many Obamaphobes. It’s also pretty obvious that the right wing propaganda outlets recognize this, and do their best to tap into it.

As for your dire predictions about “Obamacare,” keep in mind that social security and Medicare also seemed to be a big mess when they were first started up. ANY time a big program goes live, there are going to be multiple glitches for a while. Shoot, even my hospital’s new computer program was a disaster when it first went live. But it eventually straightened out.

In any case, the mess we had was costly, inefficient and inequitable, as well as being unsustainable. So you can make all the excuses you want to oppose “Obamacare”—-but the fact remains that, since the Republicans did nothing to address the issue, this is what we ended up with.

No matter how expensive you imagine it’s going to be, nothing can be more costly than relegating 1/6 or more of our population to very expensive “they can always go to the emergency room” bandaid solutions.

sa_rose October 30, 2013 at 11:46 am

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Medcare and Social Security ARE a mess. THey never STOPPED being a mess. And COngress has made it so much worse by “borowing” (never to be returned) money from the Social Security trust fund for other projects. I agree that theRepublicans had no better ideas. But at least they had the good sense to pass some POS legislation they knew would never work. No decision in Washington is made in the interest of the people. I would think you are bright enough to understant THAT at least. THe decisions are based on monetary exchanges. Whatevr is good for the Congressman (or Senator) us passed. If the people benefit, that’s just gravy. And the wensite is not having a few glitches to work out now that its live. THE ENTRE WEBSITE IS F*(&^UP! It was poor constructed in the first place, and add a few million people trying to get online with it and you hae a disaster. Adn it is now being reported that some of the site has already been hacked. So much for security.

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 7:06 am

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Well, now, isn’t that cute? Rose, who INSISTS she never listens to Rush Limbaugh, is parroting his pet (and extremely shopworn) “messiah” line. ;>)

The idea behind the line, of course, was an attempt to belittle and discredit Obama’s popularity in the U.S. and abroad. It didn’t work, of course, but that doesn’t keep all of Rush’s dittoheads from repeating it ad nauseam, whenever they want to bash Obama and can’t come up with an intelligent way to do it.

No, Rose, I’m against the death penalty, and would oppose it no matter who supported it. I think it’s funny that you accuse me of being a mindless conformist, when I’m standing up to all of you on this board, and none of you will disagree with each other in even the tiniest way. ;>)

poppajoe49 November 5, 2013 at 7:20 am

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Yea, because nobody ever picked that up and spread it around, so there’s no way that Rose could have heard it anywhere else, like maybe here, where people that admit to listening to Rush have said it themselves.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:41 am

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I already “explained” to her where it came from in another thread. She knows I don’t listen to Rush, she just keeps harping on it because 1) she’s stuid and 2) she’s here to make everyone miseerable, and “discussing” the samme BS over and over and ove. . . is how she plans to wear us down to accept her view of the world.

sa_rose November 5, 2013 at 10:39 am

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We have already had the conversation about calling Obama’s cult of personality a Messiah complex. Why are you bringing it up again? Didn’t understand it the frst time? Or just because you need to keep agitating and annoying because that is why you come to the site to begin with?

Olivia November 5, 2013 at 11:06 am

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No, just correcting you, Rose. You see, there IS no “Obama’s cult of personality.” That’s yet another histrionic myth fed to you by the right wing media, who have been trying like crazy to demonize Obama ever since he defeated Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primaries. (Before that, they were spending most of their time trying to demonize Hillary Clinton.)

Obama is popular because (1) he’s willing to play toward the center, whereas the GOP is going further and further to the extreme right; (2) he’s done pretty well so far with the mess he inherited from Bush, considering the GOP’s stated #1 goal of making him fail, and (3) he’s a good role model. He’s got a decent enough personality, but the idea that he’s some kind of Svengali is pure BS.

As I’ve said before, when you have to resort to lies, hyperbole and melodrama to defend your position, how valid could that position be?

MGAP November 5, 2013 at 11:10 am

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No, just correcting you, Rose. You see, there IS no “Obama’s cult of personality.” That’s yet another histrionic myth fed to you by the right wing media, who have been trying like crazy to demonize Obama ever since he defeated Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primaries. (Before that, they were spending most of their time trying to demonize Hillary Clinton.)
**************************************************

Translation; I’m a stupid mother fucker and I’m willing and able to prove it. Wanna see my tattoo?

Red Robster November 5, 2013 at 11:48 am

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turds

sa_rose November 8, 2013 at 11:25 am

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There IS a cult of personalityand its as plain as the nose on your face if you aren’t a member. No matter what he does, or doesn’t do or whatever he is fawned upon, supported beyod reason and defended from taing responsibility for anything (as evidenced by yor above reerence to Bush. You do know, that he was in communitcation with Bush during the last quarter or so of 2008m and agreed to the moves Bush made to try and salvage the economy after the housing market crash and the subsequent Wall Street drops? Bush didn’t operate in a vacuum.

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 2:54 am

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No, because, if you’re going to keep repeating a lie (or ridiculous hyperbole), I’m going to keep calling you on it. Dishonesty has consequences, Rose. Sorry if that offends you.

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 11:41 am

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Of course not. I am not sure I believe her claim that nothing in her insurance has canged either
************************

Of course you don’t, Rose, because you’ve been programmed not to believe anything that doesn’t echo what the right wing media tells you.

In fact, there have been plenty of success stories concerning the ACA, but you’ll never see them mentioned on FOX News, World Nut Daily, American Thinker or those other goofball sources the right goes to for their redefinition of reality. Or on right wing talk radio.

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:48 pm

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And aother set up. Your health insurance hasn’t changed but I notice you had to complete a mini-physical for that to be true. What avbout those whose results from the miniphysical weren’t as good as your? What did THEIR premium do? I have never had to complete any sort of physical for an employer sponsored lan, so that caught my eye. They are looking for the ones that will cost more, and the premiums will follow those results whether this year, or next when the employer mandate kicks in.

poppajoe49 November 7, 2013 at 6:46 pm

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Good point Rose, and I find it interesting that someone who just went through the health problems she did, is not getting an increase, it’s not like she isn’t susceptible to having further problems, and that is an expensive treatment, and she now has a “pre-existing” condition.

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 2:52 am

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That’s because you don’t understand the concept behind group insurance policies, Poopajoe. Every employee is charged the same rates, although part time, of course, is quoted a higher rate than full time.

The longer this argument goes on, the more painfully clear it becomes to me that those making the most noise here really don’t know what they’re talking about.

poppajoe49 November 8, 2013 at 4:44 am

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The longer this argument goes on, the more painfully clear it becomes to me that those making the most noise here really don’t know what they’re talking about.

True, since you have by far the most posts on this thread.

sa_rose November 8, 2013 at 11:26 am

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Actually, part time doesn’t usually GET insurance. It is generally reserved as a benefit for the full timers.

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 3:13 am

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And aother set up. Your health insurance hasn’t changed but I notice you had to complete a mini-physical for that to be true. What avbout those whose results from the miniphysical weren’t as good as your? What did THEIR premium do? I have never had to complete any sort of physical for an employer sponsored lan, so that caught my eye.
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I didn’t “have to” complete it, but completing it meant that my premiums would be frozen at the 2013 rate.

The purpose of the “mini physical” (which was actually just a lab draw, BP and weight, nothing more) is to establish a baseline for healthy lifestyle recommendations. Remember the booklet I said I received in the mail a few days later? It cited any abnormalities, and made recommendations to address them. For example, someone whose blood pressure was too high would have been told what constitutes a healthy BP, and given general recommendations, such as losing weight (if appropriate), getting more exercise, reducing salt intake and talking to his or her doctor about it. The purpose of the medical history is for making recommendations. For example, a history of hypothyroidism means adding a TSH to the other blood work.

The idea being that the client is a partner in his own health care, and can do quite a bit to control risk factors for the most common (and costly, and potentially disabling) medical problems. Obviously, there’s little or nothing you can do to prevent sarcomas. But there’s a whole lot you can do to prevent complications from other, more common disorders, as well as many of those disorders themselves. And, if they can get clients on board taking charge of their own health, it’s a savings for the insurance company, as well as the patient. THere’s nothing new about that concept.

Group insurance rates don’t come with individual prices (other than lower rates for full time employees, and commensurately higher with more family members being covered). The price we were quoted for 2014 health insurance doesn’t change, nor am I charged more for my insurance than a 23 year old part time coworker who’s never been sick. I’ve paid for company sponsored insurance for many years, Rose, and (except for maternity benefits) seldom put in any claims until the last few years. So it all evens out in the end.

sa_rose November 8, 2013 at 11:30 am

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Which is why group healthplans are generally cheaper than private insurance. Th risk is spread out so that the premiums from the ones NOT requiring csre help to balance the cost of those who do need care. And again, In orderfor you to freeze your premiums at the 2013 rate, you had to gt this miniphusical (that is what those screening are generally called in the insurance world.) WHat was your premium cost if you DIDN’T do the miniphysical?

Olivia November 8, 2013 at 12:34 pm

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About 22% higher.

deepthinker October 20, 2013 at 3:26 pm

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Wow there goes that promise of keeping your insurance and keeping your doctors. Guess that free is not so free and the statements are turning out to be lies. Useful TOOLS and FOOLS. Bought that hope and change and now you have lies and despair. Way to go. When you feel the need to whine and or bitch, try whining and or bitching to your beloved quagmire.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:01 pm

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Not-so-deep-thinker, you’re parroting a hoary old misconception that’s been plastered throughout the right wing media.

You see, Obama never “promised” that you could keep your insurance and your doctors at absolutely no cost, obligation or inconvenience to yourself, nor did he “promise” to force insurance companies to allow this. His point was that “Obamacare” wasn’t about forcing you into a plan which would dictate which doctor(s) you could see, or which hospital(s) you were required to use. Obviously, you CAN keep your doctor and health care plan if you want—–but doing so won’t NECESSARILY be the easiest and cheapest way to go.

It says a great deal about your own sense of responsibility, that you’d be sitting idly on your butt whining at Obama for not arranging everything just the way you want it, for nothing. What do you think he is—–an insurance company CEO??

By the way, if you don’t like the way insurance companies are setting up these options (my guess is that you haven’t even checked them out), just remember: it was you righties who wanted to keep Big Business in charge of health care. So don’t be bitching about it if they don’t offer you just what you want at the price you want to pay.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 3:55 am

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E

Go to :45 in this video. President I Didn’t Knowbama says clearly that if you have insurance through your employer, medicare, medicaid, or the VA, “NOTHING IN THIS PLAN WILL REQUIRE YOU OR YOUR EMPLOYER TO CHANGE THE PLAN OR DOCTOR YOU HAVE”.

Now, tell us how he kept this promise.
He’s as big a fucking liar as you are!

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 4:02 am

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Nothing will REQUIRE you or your employer to change the plan or doctor you have, Poopajoe.

Nowhere does he “promise” that you can have the plan you like the best for a bargain price.

Gosh, there sure is a “gimme” mentality on this board! “Wahh! I chose which plan I want, and Obama won’t make the insurance company give it to me for half price! He’s a bad man!!!!!”

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:19 am

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DUMBSHIT!
He said that norhing will require you to change the plan you have!
Most people are losing their plans because the law is requiring them to have coverage they don’t currently have!
You lose, PERIOD!
He lied, and you are so fucking gullible that you can’t see the truth for what it is.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 4:23 am

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DUMBSHIT!
He said that norhing will require you to change the plan you have!
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Got a link to that exact quote, in those exact words?

Didn’t think so. That’s the problem with your right wing propagandists, Poopajoe: they have a habit of paraphrasing, rather than providing direct quotes, in order to spin what was actually said. They also like to quote out of context, to confuse and mislead the viewer (or listener) still more.

And you bought right into it.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:29 am

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YES YOU DUMB SCRUNT! IT’S AT :45 IN THE VIDEO LINK I POSTED 4 POSTS ABOVE HERE!
FOR THE MENTALLY DEFICIENT, HERE IT IS AGAIN!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E
GO TO :45 IN THE VIDEO AND LISTEN TO HIM IN HIS OWN WORDS WITH THE FAWNING JOE BIDEN AND NANCY PELOSI SITTING BEHIND HIM WHILE HE SAYS THAT TO CONGRESS!!! THOSE EXACT WORDS!!!

NOW, BE GONE BITCH!!!

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 4:43 am

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Poopajoe, here were his exact words, starting at 00:45:

“If you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.”

Note that it doesn’t GUARANTEE you that you’ll get the plan you want without any effort or inconvenience on your part. It only promises you that the government itself won’t abolish your existing plan, or the opportunity of the employer to continue offering that existing plan. Obviously, since insurance companies are still in charge, they’re still capable of setting the prices that they feel will maximize profits for themselves and their shareholders. You’re a fool if you thought otherwise.

You say your wife hasn’t carried ANY insurance for a while. Well, then, his message has nothing to do with her, because it refers only to insurance the person already has.

I’ll remind you, too, that the government planned for the expansion of Medicaid for those who can’t afford private health insurance. If you’re truly that financially strapped, maybe that’s what you ought to consider—provided you don’t live in one of those states where bullheaded governors refused to expand Medicaid, in an effort to insult the president (and, incidentally, to send a message to their wealthy financial backers).

It’s what you righties always say to the poor: if what you’re doing isn’t working, then maybe you need to work harder and EARN the money to get what you want, rather than waiting for “Uncle Sugar” to give it to you.

How come you never seem to take your own advice?

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:49 am

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You obviously never get tired of twisting my words to make them fit your agenda.
What does “nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.” mean to you?
To me, it means that the plan someone has will be theirs to keep, without changing any of the specifics of the plan, yet, people are getting cancellation notices because their EXISTING PLANS don’t meet the REQUIREMENTS of Obamacare!
How does that fall in line with his promise?

You can’t answer that without twisting and lying. Give it up, we all see it for what it is, you are the only one who can’t comprehend the facts.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 4:55 am

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You obviously never get tired of twisting my words to make them fit your agenda.
What does “nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.” mean to you?
To me, it means that the plan someone has will be theirs to keep, without changing any of the specifics of the plan, yet, people are getting cancellation notices because their EXISTING PLANS don’t meet the REQUIREMENTS of Obamacare!
How does that fall in line with his promise?
****************
It’s quite simple, Poopajoe: you took Obama’s words out of context, and twisted them to arrive at the conclusion you wanted to arrive at. Or, rather, your favorite propagandist did, and you readily swallowed it.

If you actually look at the context of his words, he was assuring the nation that the government wouldn’t dismantle existing insurance plans.

How odd that you, like a good little right winger, DEMANDED that health insurance remain a for-profit commodity rather than a right, and are now bitching that the insurance companies want too much money for that commodity.

How odd, too, that you’re so quick to blame Obama for insurance company practices, instead of blaming the insurance companies that set the prices.

But I guess it’s not odd at all that you’d be whining because Obama didn’t just hand your wife a BC/BS insurance policy, just because she wanted one but you didn’t feel like paying the price for it.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 5:03 am

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You’re fucking delusional!
I’m done with you. You refuse to even see his words for what they were! Jay Carney has nothing on you!

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 9:09 am

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Nobody twisted anything , Livvy. Except you. You are trying tomanipulate Obama’s words to sound like something they aren’t. Look at Poppa’s link. It shows him repeated saying the same thing. If you like you plan, you keep it. Period, Except so far, some 2 million people have had ther plans cancelled,, because they don’t meet Obamacare standards, and the NEW policies are significantly higher in cost.

Olivia November 7, 2013 at 11:45 am

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Nobody twisted anything , Livvy. Except you. You are trying tomanipulate Obama’s words to sound like something they aren’t. Look at Poppa’s link. It shows him repeated saying the same thing. If you like you plan, you keep it. Period, Except so far, some 2 million people have had ther plans cancelled,, because they don’t meet Obamacare standards, and the NEW policies are significantly higher in cost.
*******************
And you’re convinced that those higher rates were orchestrated by Obama himself, and had nothing to do with decisions made by the insurance companies, because…….?

GhostntheMachine November 7, 2013 at 11:57 am

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…The orchestra wrote the rules?

sa_rose November 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm

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Because he directed the congress aout the plan, and he KNEW insurance companies would per force increase premiums for many and cancell insurance all together for others. He did nothing to stop that because (he has said) that ultimately they want to detach insurance from employment and move to a single payer, government healthcare system.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 5:06 am

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You’re fucking delusional!
I’m done with you. You refuse to even see his words for what they were! Jay Carney has nothing on you!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Translation: “No fair! If you’re gonna drag direct quotes, context and logic into this, I’m takin’ my ball and goin’ home!”

Interesting how sulky and whiny right wingers get, when they’re urged to take some responsibility for their own financial problems, rather than demanding that Obama do it for them.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 5:51 am

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What I find interesting is that you are twisting the context of his words. If you had waited until the sycophants had quit applauding, he even repeated that nothing would require you to change your plan or doctor. How that can be out of context is amazing to me.
I also find it interesting that you replied to my previous posts within seconds, but the one with the video link took you 14 minutes to reply to. Which leads me to the conclusion that since you said:
“Got a link to that exact quote, in those exact words?

Didn’t think so. That’s the problem with your right wing propagandists, Poopajoe: they have a habit of paraphrasing, rather than providing direct quotes, in order to spin what was actually said.”

You never heard that quote before, so you had to go ask your handlers at Media Matters what the talking point reply for that quote would be. Nobody that wasn’t following the lead of their left wing media darlings and their ministry of truth, would come up with the analysis of his words you did, and since you obviously never heard that quote before, you couldn’t have had an answer to that in your head, hence the extended time it took you to reply.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 5:58 am

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What I find interesting is that you are twisting the context of his words. If you had waited until the sycophants had quit applauding, he even repeated that nothing would require you to change your plan or doctor. How that can be out of context is amazing to me.
I also find it interesting that you replied to my previous posts within seconds, but the one with the video link took you 14 minutes to reply to.
***************
Oh, for Pete’s sake, Poopajoe. You COUNT the minutes between your post and my response….yet you accuse ME of being obsessed with YOU???

No, I didn’t consult “Media Matters.” What I was actually doing was listening to the video, and writing down the actual words, to show you that your paraphrasing was inaccurate and misleading.

Once again: the problem rests with YOU, not Obama. As you describe it, your wife, who has been uninsured for some time, now wants to get insurance so she can get “free stuff” (i.e., be subsidized for some procedures she feels she needs). You don’t want to pay the price for the insurance plan she chose, so you’re blaming Obama for not fixing that price for you.

Rant and call names all you want—–that’s the crux of your problem, yet you still lack the maturity and Personal Responsibility to admit that it’s not Obama’s problem if you and your wife don’t want to pay for a private BC/BS policy.

What’s next—-whining and crying because Obama won’t build you a new swimming pool?

Sidekick October 29, 2013 at 5:59 am

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PJ, consider this quote from Jim Quinn: “Liberalism is the art of standing on your head and telling everyone around you that they’re upside-down.”

Kind of a twist on the CS Lewis’s quote: “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 6:08 am

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You COUNT the minutes between your post and my response
It’s called reading the time stamps, a trick you have yet to master.

writing down the actual words, to show you that your paraphrasing was inaccurate and misleading.
Yet, I didn’t paraphrase, I quoted, therefore not being innacurate or misleading. It just doesn’t fit your beliefs and therefore must be a lie in your narrow little, demented mind.

your wife, who has been uninsured for some time, now wants to get insurance so she can get “free stuff” (i.e., be subsidized for some procedures she feels she needs).
Wrong again, she merely wanted to follow some misguided belief that if she didn’t get insurance, she would be breaking a law. She didn’t want the insurance, she thought she had to have it, and when I told her that she didn’t have to get it, just pay a small fine, she decided to pay the fine. She doesn’t need any medical procedures, but don’t let that get in the way of your demented little narrative.

you and your wife don’t want to pay for a private BC/BS policy
It’s not private if the government required you to have certain coverage.

I don’t need a pool, I have a nice one already.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 6:10 am

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Yes Kick, it is becoming obvious that is what she is doing.
I can’t take the lies, bullshit, and “mind reading” any more. If she had a valid point, and didn’t twist everything around, I might keep engaging her, but it’s a futile effort when she can’t even watch the man talk, and understand his words.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 6:29 am

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You COUNT the minutes between your post and my response
It’s called reading the time stamps, a trick you have yet to master.

writing down the actual words, to show you that your paraphrasing was inaccurate and misleading.
Yet, I didn’t paraphrase, I quoted, therefore not being innacurate or misleading. It just doesn’t fit your beliefs and therefore must be a lie in your narrow little, demented mind.

your wife, who has been uninsured for some time, now wants to get insurance so she can get “free stuff” (i.e., be subsidized for some procedures she feels she needs).
****************
Wrong again, she merely wanted to follow some misguided belief that if she didn’t get insurance, she would be breaking a law. She didn’t want the insurance, she thought she had to have it, and when I told her that she didn’t have to get it, just pay a small fine, she decided to pay the fine. She doesn’t need any medical procedures, but don’t let that get in the way of your demented little narrative.
****************
Well, shoot. I could have sworn that it was you who said, “Stupid scrunt, my wife wanted to find out how much insurance was because she’s pushing 60 and is concerned she may need some procedures at some point in the near future” in a previous post. There must be two posters here with identical screen names, huh?

But, since you INSIST that you never made any such remark on this board, I’ll (wink, wink) take you at your word. So what you’re now saying is that your wife decided that it’s cheaper to pay the fine and continue to play Russian roulette with her health. Which means that, if she loses the game and ends up with a serious illness or injury, she’ll be going without treatment, or (more likely) the rest of us will be footing the bill for her care.

Bottom line is still the same: you and she are refusing to take Personal Responsibility unless Obama personally delivers the policy she wants, at the price she wants, on a silver platter.
*****************

you and your wife don’t want to pay for a private BC/BS policy
It’s not private if the government required you to have certain coverage.
****************
You’re trying to split hairs, my boy. If the policy comes from, say, BC/BS rather than Medicaid or Medicare, it is indeed a private policy. The government also requires homeowners to carry homeowner’s insurance, but that doesn’t mean the insurance offered is public or state sponsored.
*****************
I don’t need a pool, I have a nice one already.
******************
I see. You have a “nice pool,” but you claim that you and your wife can’t afford to take responsibility for her health care needs.

Sounds like screwed up priorities, Poopajoe. It also sounds suspiciously like your rants about “those people” who have cell phones and tattoos, but claim they can’t afford to buy food for their families.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 6:48 am

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We have a nice pool because we bought the house with the pool before my wife lost her good paying job that had insurance.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 7:34 am

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We have a nice pool because we bought the house with the pool before my wife lost her good paying job that had insurance.
*************
And many people who depend on social programs bought their cell phones and tattoos when they were in better financial circumstances.

Funny that you won’t consider that possibility when you’re slamming poor people who receive government assistance, but you think it’s a valid excuse when you’re talking about yourself.

“Judge not lest you be judged….and by the same standard which you yourself have applied.”

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:58 am

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Popp provide not only a direct quote, but a video of saidquote, which you then STILL declined to acceot and tried to analyze Obama’s statements into something completely different that what he said. It shouldn’t be that hard. He should say what he eans and mena what he says. So seems to me yo would be the illogical one in all this!

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:02 am

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Where did Poppa ever say is wife was looking or free stuff? She has no insurance, she is getting to an age that he may require a higher level of medical care, and this insurane was meant for eople just like her. Who don’t have insurance, but would like to get it at a reqasonable cost. Except it WASN”T a reasonable cost, so the both of them are a tad upset. You’re an idiot. I mean really, has anyone tested your IQ lately?

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:07 am

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Popp provide not only a direct quote, but a video of saidquote, which you then STILL declined to acceot and tried to analyze Obama’s statements into something completely different that what he said.
****************
Not true. I took his remarks exactly as they were phrased: if you like your current health care plan, you can keep it. Not “if you don’t have insurance, you can buy any plan you want and the company has to give it to you for the price you want to pay.”

I like my current plan, Rose, and I’m going to keep it. Obama didn’t promise me that I wouldn’t have to pay more to keep it, and I never expected him to make such a promise. Nor did he promise me that the company would custom tailor a plan for me that includes only coverage for the conditions I want covered, without any extra cost or inconvenience on my part.

I’m amused (but not very surprised) the way right wingers like Poopajoe will make every excuse in the book to avoid taking responsibility for their own health care, even as they condemn imaginary inner city poor people “refusing” to take responsibility themselves.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:53 am

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She ses it. She is just arguing because she thinks it makes her look smart.

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 12:58 pm

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And he clearly said you wouldn’t have to change doctors. But between companies removing doctors from their networks and other doctors retiring or chaning careers, many WIL in fact have to cange their doctors. And there is no way you can spin that.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 1:48 pm

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And he clearly said you wouldn’t have to change doctors. But between companies removing doctors from their networks and other doctors retiring or chaning careers, many WIL in fact have to cange their doctors. And there is no way you can spin that.
***********
No need to spin it, just to remind you of the context of the remark, which has been repeatedly ignored by the right wing media. His point wasn’t that this was going to be some kind of strict government-issued policy, where you had to quit your old policy and accept whichever doctor and plan you were assigned.

It should have been obvious to anyone with a working brain that he’wasn’t guaranteeing that insurance companies wouldn’t make changes in their policies, or that some doctors wouldn’t retire or relocate to other areas of the country. But, as usual, the right wing media went on a hunt for something to bitch about, and, when they found it, they used it to death on their gullible followers.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 4:51 pm

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AHHHH, I’ve been waiting all day for one good turd!

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 11:37 pm

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I harrdly think ABC, NBC, and CBS are right leaning news outlets. And this is not a conservative delusion. THere are a lot of people out there who realize they are getting screwed. And its not the rich. They will always have plenty for whatever tthey desire. I call your attention to a thread you have apparently chosen to ignore where someone who fought to get Obanacare passed, is now getting screwed by the same thing, Je lied. They ALL lied. The closest to the truth we got was Pelosi “we have t pass it to see whats in it.”

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:52 am

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Oh, come on, that is such a lie! People on this board all pay for insurance or cash on the barrel head for medical care. Of ALL people, no one here is expecting the government to craft an insurance plan for tem. That’s the whole point! How can you be so oblivious?

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 7:55 am

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Oh, come on, that is such a lie! People on this board all pay for insurance or cash on the barrel head for medical care. Of ALL people, no one here is expecting the government to craft an insurance plan for tem.
**************
Poopajoe is. He’s blaming Obama for the fact that the BC/BS plan his wife wants costs too much, and also for the fact that it provides maternity benefits that she isn’t likely to use.

I don’t know how you can interpret that in any way other than he’s holding the president accountable for the business decisions that BC/BS makes.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:06 am

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BC/BS did not make the decisions to include maternity care in every plan, or coverage for minor childrenin every plan, or anything else in every plan. They had certain services and types of care foisted upon them by the government. I heard n the news last night that Aetna, Cigna and Unitedhealthcare are refusing to take part in the exchanges at all, because they don’t know how many additional people they would have to cover, they consder the risk too great.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 7:49 am

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No, HE is the one setting them up. And people WERE told that if they liked their insurance as it was it would not change. That sounds like no huge change in policy premiums. We are not talking a rise due to Lrge payouts, or loss of income from the insurance companies, as frequently occurs, but the entore policy being eliminated, rewritten and repriced. At a SIGNIFICANTLY higher premium rate. I’m still trying to figure out how a tax credit is going to assist people who don’t pay taxes to pay for their insurance.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:01 am

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No, HE is the one setting them up. And people WERE told that if they liked their insurance as it was it would not change.
**************
Wrong. At no time did he promise that anyone’s particular insurance plan wouldn’t change. If he had made such a statement, only a fool would have believed it, because obviously Obama has no control over changes that businesses CHOOSE to make to the products or services that they sell.

The problem is that the right wing media, which has made it its top priority to discredit Obama by fair means or foul, keeps paraphrasing his remarks to you. And, instead of immediately questioning WHY they resort to paraphrasing instead of directly quoting him in context, you just accepted their tweaked version of his remarks.

Poopajoe’s link makes it clear that he did NOT promise that insurance policies wouldn’t change. What’s more, I’ll bet you can’t come up with a direct quote from Obama making that statement….because such a statement doesn’t exist.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:10 am

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You truly are delusional. We gave you a link to a speech where he said the plans would not change. No matter how much you try and twist the facts he said it. And that is only one example. He said it over and over, and no, I am not going to dig up another video, since that would clearly be a waste of time. You don’t believe even what you see and hear, so you”re pretty much hopeless.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:24 am

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You truly are delusional. We gave you a link to a speech where he said the plans would not change.
*************
I’m sorry, Rose, but that was NOT what he said in the video. Please don’t sit there and lie to me about the words he used, simply because you’re anxious to believe that he was promising something that he has no control over.

Not so silent October 29, 2013 at 8:55 am

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Nothing said here makes any kind of a dent in the forehead of Livie the Libtard…No matter what someone says she will say the opposite or turn your words and in effect play liberal with them…Look at the Gooseneck/jackboots in D.C. who do this all the time, libtards by the dozens lie every day, and no body calls them on it, so Livie with no apparent thought of her own, does the same thing…She is just a shill shrieking libtard who feels that she must prove herself superior to any conservative and point out the error of your ways…A legend in her own mind…that’s the problem with libtards these days, they all think they are smarter than everyone else, laws don’t apply and only their words have meanings. plus they feel they have the only true path to enlightenment like some kind of tin god…The founding fathers should be spinning in their graves looking down upon people like our mentally unstable and serious challenged libtard leaders and their “friends” who like the people in Germany so many years ago said Hitler was doing a good job…then after the shit hit the fan goes..Oh we did not know….bullshit, libtards know what they are doing, devious, lying, spying, pieces of shit on a power trip,m and this twit is their foot soldier hoping for a reward from der leader when she gets noticed for your efforts to promote the democrat nazi way…Sorry but she fools no here, yet vainly tries day after day, dragging out threads way beyond the point of any usefulness..posting at odd hours hoping her post will remain for a while before getting thumbed down like always. All the while living on life built on a crap foundation and having to justify it daily by pointing out all the errors those of us not in lockstep with der leader…Nothing more than a troll with no thoughts of her own, mentally ill, and living a life as directed by politicians, reminds me of animal house in the riot scene where the guy gets run over and smashed into the sidewalk while yelling all is well…Just like Germany, so many fools, fooled by so many corrupt and power mad politicians who don’t even give a shit about her, yet she believes she must get the rest of us to see the light and follow these pieces of shit in D.C. right off the cliff…Well dear they give out nobels like they use to give out prizes in a cereal boxes….I would value a piece of junk from a box of Captain Crunch more than anything the nobel people give out..and by the way the nobel is just a libtard way of saying sorry I invented dynamite..so heres a piece prize instead..all the while the peace prize is funded by dynamite sales….typical libtard double speak hypocritical bullshit…so Livie the libtard, I say Fuck you and the horse you rode in on….not even back two weeeks and you proving that your nothing more than a liberal piece of shit..your not smart, your not honest, and your never going to post anything here to change anyone’s mind..

Red Robster November 1, 2013 at 11:47 am

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‘… like some kind of tin god.”

that and dented forehead. :D Buddy you really know how to write a picture!

Progressive Hemrrhoid October 20, 2013 at 3:27 pm

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We’ve been telling these useless idiots this was going to happen, no matter what candy coated bullshit oozed from Quagmire’s lips. They refused to listen, too caught up in the fawning bootlickers in the media’s attacks on the truth.
A lot of people are going to suffer because of this, but I hope these liberal shit stains suffer the most.

danybhoy October 28, 2013 at 5:13 pm

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They will, they just don’t know it yet.

Navyvet2 October 21, 2013 at 6:20 am

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People keep getting it up the a$$ from this regime and they sniff and mewl and play the “poor me” card. Fuck em. If they were smart enough to figure out they were obviously lied to yet AGAIN, they should vent their wrath on the media who fed them the bullshit. But, I’m sure they sit there gawking at the alphabet media or their local asswipe er paper, and are told it is all someone else’s fault and they suck it up like the gullible lemmings they are.

C_Strasburger October 21, 2013 at 8:59 am

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Received ours from BCBS last week, essentially cancelling a plan that has worked well for us for years. My wife spent a day or two looking at options thru them and it gets even worse. Not only the policy pricing, but the way deductibles are calculated? You won’t ever meet an individual deductible….ours went from $5000 between the two of us, to almost $25K collectively. And that has to be met before you ever get any individual benefits. I won’t even go into the rest of the details today…but after listening to Little Sissy Stompyfoot today, lying his miserable, pathetic liberal ass off, I just laughed….the lies and deceit spewing like an over flowing sewer. He’s good at that. BTW, was that idiot that introduced assclown using his teleprompter?

99.9% of the complete and utter idiots supporting this assclown, and this inane legislation are in for a rude awakening. Doubt any of them have actually taken the time to do their own research. They are nothing more than lemmings, racing to their own deaths over the cliff.

Welcome to the NEW and IMPROVED Amerika! Land of the Stupid and Home of the Rainbow.

poppajoe49 October 21, 2013 at 4:47 pm

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We’ll all be much better off paying the fine and cash for our medical care. It will accomplish 2 things.
1, it will drive prices down.
2, it will bankrupt Obunglescare.
It’s a win-win.

Olivia October 21, 2013 at 7:26 pm

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Poopajoe, if you think the average person (including yourself) can afford to pay for emergency surgery or a catastrophic illness out of pocket, then you’re even more clueless than I gave you credit for being. Don’t think it can happen to you? Think again. Sooner or later it happens to EVERYONE—-and never when they’re expecting it or financially prepared for it.

Go ahead—-pay the fine, and boycott “Obamacare.” You’re not hurting anyone but yourself and your family.

poppajoe49 October 22, 2013 at 3:40 am

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TURDS!

C_Strasburger October 22, 2013 at 5:25 am

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Olivia, were you born stupid? I’d say yes. We could have accomplished that at a far lesser cost to the taxpayer (clearly something you don’t do), and adding 12, 30, 48 (whatever the number of uninsured is today – it changes with the wind) million without insurance, without destroying the finest insurance and healthcare system in the world.

Is “healthcare” one of your specific key words, troll?

Olivia October 22, 2013 at 6:04 am

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It’s between 47 and 50 million, Strasburger. Not including those who are UNDERinsured.

What you’re describing sounds an awful lot like socialized medicine. Hey, if that’s what you’re rooting for, you’ll get no argument from me, but do you really want to express such a sentiment among all these angry “I’ve got mine, screw you” reactionaries?

Just to clarify: I’m no troll. I didn’t particularly intend to participate on all these health care threads…..but, when I see so much blatant misinformation and lies being tossed around, I can’t resist stepping in to provide a reality check. No wonder you guys always end up on the wrong side of history!

poppajoe49 October 22, 2013 at 6:10 am

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I’m no troll

Can’t prove that by what you post here.

flashingscotsman October 22, 2013 at 8:12 am

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My Dear Sweet Olivia. You are a troll.

There, I said it, that makes it a fact. Hey, works for Obama.

sa_rose October 22, 2013 at 10:00 am

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True. I saw it in the internet! and everything on the internet is true! (right?)

flashingscotsman October 22, 2013 at 1:08 pm

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There’s a truth meter at each and every server. If it’s not one hundred percent true, it doesn’t get posted. Al Gore put on there from the first day.

poppajoe49 October 22, 2013 at 3:01 pm

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So, Obama’s a troll?

sa_rose October 23, 2013 at 9:35 am

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Hahaha! He has the ears! Sorry. I couldn,’t resist.

C_Strasburger October 22, 2013 at 8:26 am

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Really, now? Well then, you must hold a compete disdain for onumbnutz, liberals in general, and this notreallyhealthcare travesty due to all the lies, deception, and misinformation propagated by this administration? right?

Read, and then reread my post about BCBS above, troll. Those are facts. I don’t really care whether you like them or not…you can believe whatever you want…the facts are the facts….

BTW, you are obviously a troll… And, your comprehension of history truly is astounding… I’m sure your mommy is very proud.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:01 am

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Really, now? Well then, you must hold a compete disdain for onumbnutz, liberals in general, and this notreallyhealthcare travesty due to all the lies, deception, and misinformation propagated by this administration? right?
***************
Actually, what you righties are branding “lies, deception and misinformation” isn’t that at all. It’s the normal process of getting a huge program up and working. And, of course, it’s the result of right wing propaganda feeding you all sorts of misinformation (which you very naively swallowed unquestioningly).

15 years ago, I would never have believed it if someone had told me you righties would be swallowing and regurgitating some of the whoppers I see here. But, then again, 15 years ago FAUX News hadn’t yet become the gullible right winger’s bible.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 6:08 am

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“lies, deception and misinformation” isn’t that at all.

Then what would you call
“If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”
“If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance”
“You will save $2500 per person a year on health insurance”

HMMMM, sounds like lies, deception, and misinformation to me.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:55 am

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That’s because you’re uninsured, and (now that you claim to be a veteran who has no use for regular health insurance) obviously have minimal experience shopping for or paying for health care.

Not one person on here has claimed s/he can’t keep his/her doctor, although several have admitted that they get a better deal by using an option that requires them to switch doctors. Obama didn’t say you could keep your doctor at absolutely no cost or obligation to yourself. Obviously, the government has no control over whether an insurance company decides to list a particular doctor as “in network.”

As for the claim “you will save $2500 per person a year on health insurance”: I can’t seem to find that quote anywhere. I’m also pretty sure Obama wouldn’t make such a grammatical lapse as “per person a year.” But I KNOW it must be a direct quote, or you wouldn’t have put it in quotation marks, right?

So, if you can provide a link to it, IN CONTEXT, I’ll have a look. Fair enough?

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:39 am

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http://youtu.be/66bgpRRSDD4

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 3:47 pm

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Thanks Rose, I made one tiny error, it was $2500 per family.
Yet, I can’t find one family or person who is paying less, can you?

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:16 am

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And those of us who can’t even GET Fox news? THe ony newon TV to which I am exposed is the Big 3 major broadcasting outlets. So where am I getting the lies Fox is supposedly producing. I have seen far more examples of lying from the Big Three. They have even acknowleged some of them on air. There HAVE been lies. Obama promised people could keep their current plans. Wrong. He promised the raes woul dbe lower. Wrong. He intimated that employers would save so much they could giv everyone a raise. REALLY wrong. So how do you figure we are dealing in misconceptins about Obamacare? Looks like the misconceptions are on the President’s part, not ours.

sa_rose October 22, 2013 at 10:00 am

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The level of ignorance and incompetence you have shown in your posts pretty much argues against your ability to givbe a reality check. You wouldn’t know reality of it bit you in the ass. You aren’t even competent in your own field! The situations described here ae pulled form other news reports, analyses, etc. We aren’t pulling themout of our asses with no credible citations. You, on the other hand. . . .

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:59 am

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The level of ignorance and incompetence you have shown in your posts pretty much argues against your ability to givbe a reality check. You wouldn’t know reality of it bit you in the ass. You aren’t even competent in your own field!
*************
……..says the self-described health care professional who didn’t realize that longterm hormone therapy can pose an increased risk for breast cancer……and who claimed that female trangenders don’t have breasts (other than artificial ones), and therefore can’t get cancer……
*************
The situations described here ae pulled form other news reports, analyses, etc. We aren’t pulling themout of our asses with no credible citations.
****************
Correction: some are pulled from blogs and other opinion pieces. Which automatically affects their credibility, especially if they misquote their sources, or don’t provide documentation to back up their claims.

You do realize, don’t you, that quite a few posters here don’t seem to understand the difference between a well researched news source, and somebody’s opinion disguised as a news source?

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:39 am

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Do NOT misquote me. I stated that I had not seen any studies that pointed to an increase risk for breast cancer in Transgendered men, but conceded that long term hormone therapy could increase risk. And I stated that there was breast tissue under their implants, which placed them at the same risk factor as other men, and I even noted the risk of the Braca gene as increased risk for any man. Get your shit straight.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 3:49 pm

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Too much trouble for her to get things right, and they will not support her point if she did.

Red Robster October 22, 2013 at 10:09 am

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you’re a legend in your own mind.

Also, you’re at least a troll, at best, an orcess.

Also, also, your mama dresses you funny.

Also, also, also, you’re delusional.

Also, also, also, also your yore comments prove these salient points.

Armed and Awesome October 27, 2013 at 3:44 pm

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Actually, I don’t think she was born stupid. She clearly takes lessons, AKA public education.

sa_rose October 22, 2013 at 9:56 am

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But Obamacare wasn’t supposed to be catastrophic insurance. It was supposed to provide insurance for ongoing well care to prevent the advancement of disease and disorders to the point they became catastrophic. Some will gain insurance, but many who already have it will lose it as companies alter the plans and increase the cost. Truthfully I have several serious chronic conditions, and I would not pay for a policy that had a $25,000 deductible. Why pay premiums? My cost of care is less that the deductible and I would be wasting the premium cost. Anyone who understands insurance could see this coming. Just noone wanted to accept the truth.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 2:43 am

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Not true, Rose. Other countries have managed to provide affordable health care to ALL, for a fraction of the cost of our own seriously inadequate and inequitable system. Yet there’s NO country on earth that has used a for-profit system like ours (pre-reform) successfully and affordably for ALL.

Consider the fact that there are many Americans WITH serious chronic conditions, who have had no insurance up to this time. I’m sorry, but that’s unacceptable; yet Republicans showed absolutely no interest in changing it. Nor would the right even consider the idea of universal health care. So this was the only option available. It’s not good enough, but it’s a step in the right direction.

But I must say, you and Poopajoe are making a great case for socialized medicine. Keep it up!

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 3:25 am

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So, instead, the goobermint decides to make a law that penalizes those without serious health issues, and causes them to be dropped by their insurer!
Why? Ostensibly because their insurance doesn’t meet the Obamacare mandated coverage requirements. What would those be? Not having coverage for minor children, maternity coverage, and prenatal coverage for men, and for women over 60 years of age! Can you tell me why they need to carry that coverage?

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 3:40 am

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This is a redistribution scheme. The government is following the Social Security model by forcing the young to pay for the old. To a central planner it makes perfect sense. To the rest of us, we know the system eventually collapses.

Central planning versus nihilism, the favorite false choice of the left.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 3:59 am

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This is a redistribution scheme. The government is following the Social Security model by forcing the young to pay for the old. To a central planner it makes perfect sense. To the rest of us, we know the system eventually collapses.
***********
So what’s your solution? You’ve already defended the right of family members to insist that Grandma be kept alive “ad absurdum” (as Alien put it).

Who pays for all those resources and personnel to keep Grandma alive, Kick? Who pays for the resources used when Grandma’s 27 year old uninsured great grandson gets into a bad car accident, and (because he’s a libertarian and didn’t believe in being forced to wear a seat belt) ends up with multiple fractures and TBI?

You say you don’t want doctors being able to overrule families, when they want the hospital to go to ridiculous extremes to keep Grandma alive. You say you don’t want young people to be ‘forced” to carry health insurance. From what I’ve seen, you don’t want health care reform at all, except perhaps giving insurance companies more leverage against unprofitable patients. So who pays????

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:16 am

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You are mixing apples and oranges. Grandma being “kept alive is in a completely different category than a 27 yeear old on an MVA. I don’t support keeping elderly people alive long after whoever they were has left the building. I thik man families have guilt issues and want to prolong her life, but to me, that is no life, and m children have been made SERIOUSLY aware of that. On the other hand, no one seems concerned about keepin a 24 week preemie alive by any means possible, even ifit means a liftime of serious medical care, and an inability to ever become a functioning, productive citizen. Are YOU gonn tell his Mom you are pulling the plug because he just had his 3rd brain bleed? its all about point of view.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:22 am

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On the other hand, no one seems concerned about keepin a 24 week preemie alive by any means possible, even ifit means a liftime of serious medical care, and an inability to ever become a functioning, productive citizen. Are YOU gonn tell his Mom you are pulling the plug because he just had his 3rd brain bleed? its all about point of view.
*********************
I’m not “gonna’ tell his mother anything, Rose, because I’m not the one who’s balking at shelling out money for taxes and health insurance.

The question isn’t whether we all think this sweet little baby should have a chance at life. The question is whether we’re willing to accept higher insurance premiums and higher health care costs, to subsidize the baby’s $1,000,000+ medical interventions. Because someone’s got to pay the bill, and obviously most new parents don’t have that kind of money.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:21 pm

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In this case though, it seems the older are paying for the young and irresponsible.
Women that are postmenopausal are paying for prenatal and neonatal care for those who can’t afford kids.
It’s an expansion of welfare.
That said, as I mentioned earlier, NOBODY is paying less, EVERYONE is paying more!
So much for the “affordable” part of the cACA.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:08 am

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Because it’s cheaper to provide one-size-fits-all insurance for everyone, than it is to custom tailor insurance policies for each individual, Poopajoe—-just as it’s cheaper for cable companies to offer you 300 channels, instead of giving you a package of the 10 channels you want, without all the other junk. Just as it’s cheaper for appliance companies to offer you one big, thick repair manual in 12 different languages, than it is to manufacture 12 separate repair manuals, and have to make sure that the right ones go to the right customers.

And the reason that “those without serious health issues” need insurance is that (1) sooner or later, everyone ends up with a serious medical problem that they can’t afford to pay for out of pocket, and (1) anyone who thinks he can predict when or what that will be is a misguided fool.

Sorry, but it’s irresponsible and short sighted of you to expect everyone else to foot the bill for YOUR medical costs, should you suddenly end up with a bowel obstruction, a serious injury, a stroke, cholecystitis, cancer, or a mental health crisis. Presumably, you don’t object to having insurance on your car, or changing the oil when appropriate—-so why are you whining and crying about taking responsibility for your own health? If YOU don’t care about keeping yourself healthy and productive, why on earth would you expect anyone else to do it for you?

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:38 am

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Because it’s cheaper to provide one-size-fits-all insurance for everyone, than it is to custom tailor insurance policies for each individual, Poopajoe

Then how do you explain the huge increases in policy premiums for EVERYONE?

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:23 am

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Instead of picking on Poppa, who has always paid for his medical care above and beyond what the VA provides, and has paid for all his wife’s care with or without insurance, I am having difficulty understanding why you continue to say he (and all of us for that matter) are irresponsible. It is irresponsible to have a baby out of wedlock. It is irresponsible to use rent and utility money for drugs and alcohol. Why do I never hear you talk about THAT irresponsibility, instead of hassling someone who has worked and paid taxes his entire life? Ad he is employed full time. Are you irresponsible because you only work part time? You have no children (at leat I hope not) so there is no reason not to work fulltime and pay more taxes to cover the programs you support.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:32 am

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Instead of picking on Poppa, who has always paid for his medical care above and beyond what the VA provides, and has paid for all his wife’s care with or without insurance, I am having difficulty understanding why you continue to say he (and all of us for that matter) are irresponsible. It is irresponsible to have a baby out of wedlock. It is irresponsible to use rent and utility money for drugs and alcohol. Why do I never hear you talk about THAT irresponsibility….
***************
Probably because you don’t read my posts before jumping in to argue with them. First, you’re repeating worn-out stereotypes, which serves no purpose here except to show that you’re more interested in justifying your own prejudices than getting at the truth.

Second, people who use up their money on “drugs and alcohol” (actually, as you know, alcohol IS a drug) have dependency issues, which means irresponsibility, period. You’re not going to fix that irresponsibility just by bitching about them, or yanking away their family’s meager support system.

In fact, I wouldn’t be saying anything at all about Poopajoe’s situation, were it not for the fact that he’s always so quick to believe the worst about poor people with brown skin who live in the inner city. Right now he’s boasting about boycotting “Obamacare.” That in itself is pretty irresponsible, since if (heaven forbid) his wife should develop a serious, expensive-to-treat illness, it would be the rest of us who’d have to subsidize her care, since there’s no way the average Joe can shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Not so silent October 29, 2013 at 8:56 am

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TD MO nothing to see here but a libtard regurgitating talking points…

KimmyQueen November 3, 2013 at 11:18 am

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Rose remember that producers are not allowed to spend the money they work for on themselves and their families… you see the RESPONSIBLE thing according to idiots socialists is for producers to spend their money on government programs allowing for the non producing socialists to feel good about themselves for forcing producers to comply to the things that socialists want, but won’t pay for themselves.

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 12:42 pm

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Its a lot of the well care demands that the insurance companies are claiming they can’t provide at the same cost as before. Most employer insurance carried maternity care, children to age 23 (if part of the policy and the family chose a plan that included children) And the pre existing clause was generally a delay in payment for a specific condition that had been treated within the last 6 months. Most of the time after a waiting period, preexisting was covered as well

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:25 pm

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Rose, that’s why many of us hard core liberals (as opposed to centrist Obama) believe that it’s not a good idea to leave health care in the hands of for-profit corporations.

You right wingers clamored for the government to surrender total control of American health care to these very same corporations—-so why are you now blaming Obama for corporate decisions designed to maximize their own profits?

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:29 am

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So what you wanta government plan like Medicare? You REALLY are crazy! Medcare does cover senior’s care, but t only covers hospitalizations. IF you pay for part B, it covers doctors, DME, outpt therapies, etc. And IF you pay anther premium, you get a prescription plan that helps cpver medications. Mind you, they aren’t free, but discounted. This last onth, I paid more on one of my prescriptions than the insurance did. Medicare is dying under money lost to fraud and unnecesary care, and many things the elderly really NEED, like eyeglasses and hearing aids aren’t covered at all. And since Medicare doesn’t cover them, no Medicare supplemental insurance will cover them either! Some of the Medicare advantage programs address that, but they are for profit organizations looking to make money on your mdicare premiums by offering “more efficient” healthcare. That frequently translate to limiting or not approving needed care.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:36 am

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So what you wanta government plan like Medicare? You REALLY are crazy! Medcare does cover senior’s care, but t only covers hospitalizations. IF you pay for part B, it covers doctors, DME, outpt therapies, etc. And IF you pay anther premium, you get a prescription plan that helps cpver medications. Mind you, they aren’t free, but discounted. This last onth, I paid more on one of my prescriptions than the insurance did.
**************
And how much do people have to pay who don’t have health insurance at all, Rose?

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:43 am

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Yes, small European countries hve passed socialized medicine laws. And now England and France are drwoning, Ireland is drowning, Greece is already bankrupt, and other countries are frantically trying to figure out how to PAY for their socilaized medicine. And anyone who is able comes to America for treatment. So how’s that working for them again?

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:23 pm

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Not to mention that we are exponentially larger than any of the Eurosocialist countries, and they are having trouble paying for their healthcare. How are we supposed to do it on a much larger scale?

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:37 am

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Well, duh, Poopajoe, we also have more taxpayers and more resources BECAUSE we’re larger.

Just as WalMart can afford to offer a lower price on shampoo than Mom and Pop’s Acme Dry Goods can.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 9:15 am

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But its not cheaper! You keep dragging that out in one form or another, but the bottom line is ITS NOT CHEAPER!

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:33 pm

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Actually, Rose, most of what you said above is a lie, and a rather ridiculous one. The vast majority of Europeans receive health care in their own countries. Those who come to the U.S. (or go to other countries—contrary to popular right wing assumption, not everyone who goes abroad for medical procedures flocks to the United States) COME HERE BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO.

Get it now? They can afford to come here, because they’re not being bankrupted by medical expenses back home, as so many Americans are. They have CHOICES. As compared to tens of millions of Americans, who have previously had no health care options at all, let alone the choice to go to another country for treatment.

It’s also a myth that those nations are all “drowning.” Sure, they have their financial problems—-but so does the U.S. Every nation has its priorities. In France, for example, some of those priorities are affordable higher education for anyone who’s smart enough to qualify; affordable health care, and maintaining infrastructure. Here in the U.S., we can’t be bothered with those things, because we’re too busy bloating our military and giving tax cuts to billionaires so they can buy elections. :>P

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:32 am

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According to the patients, they come here becasue they cannot get electivesurgeries in a reasonable time frame, and the delay even in testing throws them weeks or even months delay getting some kind of treatment. Your right, the ones that come here are thse that can afford to when I said anyone who is ble is comeing here for care. The rest are left to rot at home.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:33 am

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According to the patients, they come here becasue they cannot get electivesurgeries in a reasonable time frame, and the delay even in testing throws them weeks or even months delay getting some kind of treatment. Your right, the ones that come here are thse that can afford to when I said anyone who is ble is comeing here for care. The rest are left to rot at home.
***************
And your statistics reflecting poorer patient outcomes in those countries, due to patients “rot(ting) at home” instead of receiving timely treatment, are……..?

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 9:19 am

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The statistic are irrelevant because you wouldn’t believe them if they were engraved in gold. You stated your incorrect theory on why people came here for treatment, and I corrected you with what the actual patients say. I don’t expect you to believe me. I could descend from on high on clouds of gold and silver with GOD himself at my side, and you wouldn’t believe it.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 9:26 am

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The statistic are irrelevant because you wouldn’t believe them if they were engraved in gold.
***
Try me. Show me your patient outcome statistics, from a neutral source, reflecting significantly higher death rates directly attributable to delays in elective surgery in those countries. Then we’ll talk about it.

Or you could just come clean and admit that you made it all up……

sa_rose October 30, 2013 at 11:49 am

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I didn’t make it up, and I am not going to spend time searching for statistics that you will not believe,. and will argue about for another week.

Olivia October 30, 2013 at 11:57 am

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I didn’t make it up, and I am not going to spend time searching for statistics that you will not believe,. and will argue about for another week.
**************
I see. So you’re trying to tell me that other countries have poor patient outcomes; you’re claiming that those poor patient outcomes are directly related to the fact that they have universal, single payer health care; but you can’t be bothered to back up these claims with any statistics whatsoever.

Want to remind me again why I should take you seriously on this issue?

poppajoe49 October 30, 2013 at 5:37 pm

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TURDS!! :-D

sa_rose October 22, 2013 at 9:50 am

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ut the fines increase expoentially each year without insurance. and the whole idea of this bondoggle was to increase the number of insured, not increase it! Fail again.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 3:59 am

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Don’t be whining and bitching to me, C. Strasburger. As I’ve said many times on this board, it was you righties who wanted and DEMANDED to keep the insurance companies in charge. (In fact, you fought to deregulate them still further, but thank goodness you didn’t get your way.)

So you got your way: the insurance companies are still running the show, and still deciding what to make you pay. Their goal is still, obviously, to maximize their profits rather than to give little people like you a financial break.

That’s why I’ve been saying from Day One that what we really need (and will eventually go to) is universal, single payer insurance. “Obamacare” is, at best, a compromise, because Republicans—-always the party of business—-didn’t want that. So blame them if the option you want costs more than you choose to pay.

poppajoe49 October 23, 2013 at 9:39 pm

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FTA:

Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.

That must be nearly 1 million new uninsured because of the insurance law that was supposed to get the uninsured, insured.

NICE GOING OBAMA!
What was that about being able to keep your insurance?

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 2:35 am

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I’d like to read the article you’re citing, Poopajoe. Got a link to it?

I really, really hope it’s a bona fide news article, and not one of those National Enquirer style “this is outrageous!” liefests that you usually seem to get your information from. If it turns out to be true (which is a big IF) that makes about as fine a case for fully socialized medicine as anything I’ve yet seen.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 3:21 am

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Talk about unbelievably dense!
It’s the article linked in the OP!
None other than the Obama sycophantic NBC news!
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/thousands-get-health-insurance-cancellation-notices-8C11417913

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 3:35 am

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Here is more. The total number of otherwise insured people losing their coverage is in the millions.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/millions-americans-are-losing-their-health-plans-because-obamacare_764602.html

This flies in the face of the President’s promise that people could keep their doctors or insurance. Central planners don’t know or care about the things that actually occur as a result of their actions.

As an anecdote, my company changed insurers for 2014. More expensive than what I had and the copays and deductibles are much higher. The hospital chain my wife works for does not accept our new insurance (CIGNA). So that takes 11 local hospitals off the list of places we can go if needed.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:29 am

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Okay, Kick, I’m going to take your last paragraph first. Have you ever, Before Obamacare, experienced the phenomenon of your employer switching insurance companies? I have. Three times in the past six years, in fact. What’s more, the premiums increased every year, much more than my salary did. (Until this year. My rates for 2014 have been frozen at 2013′s rates.) Why on earth would you have assumed that that would never happen again? We are, after all, dealing with a for-profit system here. That’s the way you right wingers wanted it, didn’t you?

Obama said, if you like your plan, you can keep it. He never made any guarantee that the company that provides your plan wouldn’t raise the price, or wouldn’t create limits that made keeping it less convenient or attractive for you. He COULDN’T make such promises, unless he were personally directing every insurance company’s business plans. Why would you have assumed that that’s what he was offering?

Second: the blog (not current events article) you cited is referring to another article (cited within the blog entry), which wasn’t about “losing coverage.” It was about the rate at which people were getting signed up, which (according to the original article, which your blog cited) wasn’t happening fast enough.

That’s a fixable problem. In no way is it a reasonable excuse for scrapping the whole thing. You antireformers are really grasping at straws lately. You’re quick enough to point out (and exult over) every glitch, real and imagined, but you refuse to even consider problem solving techniques to address them.

One can only imagine if Eisenhower had been forced to work in tandem with a general who adamantly opposed the invasion of Normandy, and, every time a glitch in the plans came up, moaned and groaned that it wouldn’t work, that Eisenhower just wanted to kill a lot of Americans for nothing, that he was unfit for his job, that he’d PROMISED it would be done on June 5 and was therefore a liar and incompetent when it ended up being delayed.

In short (yeah, I know, it’s too late now to make this a short post), how about if the right helps come up with ideas that will make this easier and smoother to implement, instead of just making excuses to sabotage it?

Alien October 24, 2013 at 3:58 pm

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Since i’ve worked at current company (about 11 years now), my insurance has changed twice (spanning 3 insurers in total). By 2009 I’d realized that covering my family had doubled (in about 7 years at that point)

Last year there was no increase, this year there was. The overall trend is about the same for us

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 4:05 pm

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We did not have an increase last year any the years previous to that our contributions were basically stable. This year, as I noted, the whole package was changed and we are getting less for more. One of the reasons our old plan was stable is we pioneered the move to kick off spouses who worked and could get insurance through their employer. Not a good morale booster as many families saw their premiums as a household expense in effect double. Delta Airlines made headlines when they announced the same policy. We did it six years ago.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:35 am

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Not surprising Kick, everything about this law sucks, except for the retards like my bitch, who hasn’t seen the increase in her premiums yet. I expect to see her disappear from here when that happens.

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 4:51 am

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Yeah, I read her reply. We changed insurers because the bc/bs plan we had became too expensive. Without the ACA that decision would not have to have been made. It is that simple.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:57 am

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And you know for a fact that BC/BS had no intention of raising their rates next year (yeah, right) but that Obama FORCED them to, because…….?

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:48 am

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Because of the increased cost of the plan when allthe requirements demanded by Obamacare were factored into the cost of being insured. Insurance companies used to be able to mitigate the cost of covering extrememly ill patients with the premiums of the young and healthy who rarely made a claim. That isn’t the case, and being beholden to shareholders (that’s common folk) they will not swallow that cost and decrease their profit margin.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:02 pm

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Insurance companies used to be able to mitigate the cost of covering extrememly ill patients with the premiums of the young and healthy who rarely made a claim. That isn’t the case…
************
Why, yes, it is. Don’t you remember when you right wingers assured me that young people don’t buy health insurance—because they’d rather spend the money on big screen TVs and electronic toys and fancy cars?

Now, all of a sudden, you’re changing your tune and claiming that they all had insurance until health care reform came along?

You guys need to pick one story and stick with it. All this flip flopping is making me dizzy.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:27 pm

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Don’t blame Rose for that, you were dizzy long before you came here.

sa_rose October 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm

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In some cases that is true as well. My half sister, owned her own business, husband was in school. They could have bought insurance, but instead they used the money to buy land. When she interested hand with a table saw, she ended up paying the bill out of pocket. It would have been cheaper to buy the insurance. People are not always sensible about money.

flashingscotsman October 27, 2013 at 5:59 pm

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With Obamacare premiums and deductibles, it would, in most cases, be cheaper to pay out of pocket than to be insured.

Olivia October 27, 2013 at 7:28 pm

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With Obamacare premiums and deductibles, it would, in most cases, be cheaper to pay out of pocket than to be insured.
************
That’s true. Unless, of course, you happen to need medical care.

But, of course, you’re one of those people who think you’re invincible. Either that, or you don’t think at all.

poppajoe49 October 28, 2013 at 4:28 am

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AHHHH, it’s going to be a good morning, a big turd already!

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 5:21 am

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Yea kick, I had shopped BC/BS last year for my wife, the rates were about 1/3 what they are now, mainly because we could design the plan coverage we wanted, now you are having coverage imposed on you, and it gets way more expensive that way.

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 5:34 am

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As an aside, Democratic Rep Dingall just echoed, during the ACA website hearing, the President’s words that health care is a right. That is not an insignificant statement.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 5:35 am

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No, it’s not. Do you agree with him that health care is a right?

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 5:48 am

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You answered your own question:

Do you agree with him that health care is a right?

No, it’s not.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 5:55 am

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Okay, Poopajoe, you believe that health care is NOT a right, and you choose not to Take Personal Responsibility by getting health insurance.

If you get sick in the coming year—not just a cold or a sore throat, but a real, expensive-to-treat illness, like appendicitis or diveriticulitis or (heaven forbid) cancer, you’ll be honest and refuse to seek treatment that somebody else will have to subsidize for you?

It’s shortsighted enough to refuse to buy health insurance. But, when you argue that no one has a right to expect affordable health care, it’s downright stupid. To say nothing of dishonest.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 6:02 am

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Your dementia is showing!
I’m a veteran. Figure it out. I earned my healthcare.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:07 am

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Your dementia is showing!
I’m a veteran. Figure it out. I earned my healthcare.
************
Then how come you were recently boasting about not needing insurance, not because you were a veteran, but because (you assume) you’re healthy?

Better try to stick to one story, my boy, because all this flip flopping isn’t enhancing your credibility. (Not that you had much to begin with.)

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 6:10 am

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Your dementia is getting worse!
I never said any such thing.
Perhaps you can link to where I ever said that?
No, I didn’t think so.

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 5:56 am

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Define right?

It most definately is not an inalienable right.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:13 am

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Yet you were just arguing in favor of families who want to “do everything” to keep a moribund Grandma alive for as long as possible, regardless of the cost.

If you don’t think Americans have a right to health care, where are you getting the idea that they have a right to force the doctor to perform any and all aggressive measures on a dying person, whether or not he feels it’s in the patient’s best interests?

You can’t dance back and forth between these two points, Kick. If you don’t believe people have a right to health care, then you also don’t believe they have a right to life—-because lack of health care can, and often does, mean needless death.

Sounds like you need to look a little closer at your values as a citizen. Either that, or maybe admit that you DO think people have a right to health care….but you just don’t want to have to take any social responsibility to help provide it.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 6:21 am

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Maybe because if they’re paying him, they get to decide what they’re paying him to do?

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:28 am

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Maybe because if they’re paying him, they get to decide what they’re paying him to do?
**************
1) Unless they’re multimillionaires paying cash, they’re NOT paying him—the taxpayers are.

2) Physicians aren’t short order cooks or menial servants. They’re hired for their medical expertise and judgment, not for their ability to take orders from lay people. Especially lay people who aren’t even the patient.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 3:42 pm

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1) Unless they’re multimillionaires paying cash, they’re NOT paying him—the taxpayers are.

Bullshit.
Before Obamacare, the only time the taxpayers were paying the doctor was if you were on medicare or medicaid.

2) Physicians aren’t short order cooks or menial servants. They’re hired for their medical expertise and judgment, not for their ability to take orders from lay people. Especially lay people who aren’t even the patient.

When you’re sitting in an ER treatment room for what seems like hours, watching your loved one bleeding or suffering, maybe you need to grab a doctor by the collar and tell him what the hell to do!

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:26 pm

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Bullshit.
Before Obamacare, the only time the taxpayers were paying the doctor was if you were on medicare or medicaid.
***************
Elderly patients—the ones who consume most hospital resources—-ARE on Medicare, Poopajoe. If a patient has serious medical issues, it doesn’t take very long to go through every single penny s/he’s paid into Medicare, which means that all other medical expenses are then borne by the taxpayer.

Thanks to health care reform, patients no longer need to worry about insurance companies denying claims for preexisting conditions, or setting lifetime limits on certain types of treatment (e.g., psychiatric).
*****************

>>> Physicians aren’t short order cooks or menial servants. They’re hired for their medical expertise and judgment, not for their ability to take orders from lay people. Especially lay people who aren’t even the patient.
******************
When you’re sitting in an ER treatment room for what seems like hours, watching your loved one bleeding or suffering, maybe you need to grab a doctor by the collar and tell him what the hell to do!
************
Yes, it does seem like an eternity to have to sit and wait when you’re anxious. (One more reason, by the way, you don’t want to see ERs clogged with non-emergencies.) Still, I assure you the doctor knows “what the hell to do.” But emergency departments triage patients, and treat the ones with the highest acuities first.

Believe it or not, bleeding (unless it’s arterial bleeding and/or the patient is in danger of going into shock) is not at the top of the triage scale. Grab a clean towel, apply direct pressure, and wait your turn to be seen. Your loved one is going to be fine, and the staff HASN’T forgotten him or her.

Pain isn’t necessarily at the top of the scale, either. Granted, I hate to see a patient in pain in the waiting room, and will do everything I possibly can to get him back in a room so we can get started treating that pain (we do have some modest standing orders)—-but, again, we sometimes have more pressing issues.

What sort of issues? Heart attacks. Cardiac and respiratory arrest. Strokes. Allergic reactions. Mentally ill patients threatening staff. Ambulances pouring in. Angry family members demanding this, that, or the other thing for their loved one. (Some of their requests are perfectly reasonable; others not so much.) Seizures. Getting patients ready for emergency surgery. Hanging vasopressors, trying to get an IV in a shocky patient with no veins, holding down a screaming toddler while the doctor performs a scary or painful procedure on her. Running to the aid of a patient who’s vomiting profusely. Picking up a patient who’s just fallen in the bathroom. Hastily cleaning rooms in between patients. And, of course, documenting, documenting, documenting.

I promise you, we’re not just sitting at the desk with our feet up, playing Candy Crush Saga. I also promise you that grabbing the doctor and giving him a dressing down isn’t going to get your loved one treated any more quickly. In fact, it will delay things, because it distracts him from the multitasking he’s already doing.

sa_rose October 26, 2013 at 8:34 pm

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Except for personal insurance, the insurance company does not determine what is covered under employee plans. The employer does that. And yes,I worked for Aetna health plans and I know what I am talking about.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 5:47 am

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Yea kick, it’s a right that the goobermint has to force on you. A real cool bonus, isn’t it?
Seems to me that healthcare was one of those “rights” that the founders left out of the Bill of Rights. I also don’t remember anyone putting an amendment in the Constitution that adds it as a right, so there is a bit of a problem with their statements.

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 5:58 am

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Right, if a state wants to offer some sort of right to “free” health care, the 9th and 10th Amendments make that possible. If a person does not want to live under that system, in theory, he can move to another state. Not possible if that were a federal system.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:05 am

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Sorry, Kick, but civil rights and civil liberties aren’t subject to a popularity vote among states. Don’t you remember? There was a little skirmish called the American Civil War that settled that point some 150 years ago.

And, incidentally, who said anything about a right to “free” health care? The only ones I’ve ever seen talk about “free” health care are Bush and Rush Limbaugh, who seem to have the impression that going to the ER and then stiffing the hospital for the bill equals “health care at no charge.” And they, of course, are dead wrong about that.

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 6:09 am

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I have no idea what you are talking about. Seriously. No idea.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 6:12 am

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Yea, she’s also trying to put words I never spoke into my mouth.

Desperation leads to some odd behavior.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 6:36 am

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I have no idea what you are talking about. Seriously. No idea.
*************
Then I will explain it again.

1) You stated you don’t believe Americans have a right to health care.

2) You also argued that a tribunal like Canada’s has no right to interfere with a patient’s family’s wishes, even if those wishes fly directly in the face of the doctor’s professional judgment, or aren’t (in his professional opinion) in the patient’s best interest.

(That is what you were arguing, was it not? You certainly were NOT arguing in favor of a committee to hear both sides of the story and make the decision FOR them.)

3) Stating that Americans have no right (“inalienable” or otherwise) to health care means, by extension, that you also believe Americans have no right (“inalienable” or otherwise) to life, since availability of health care can often mean the difference between life and death.

4) If you don’t agree that Americans have this right, why are you defending the perceived right of Americans to demand unlimited heroic measures to keep Grandma alive? Especially when it’s the taxpayers, not the patient OR the family, who has to foot the bill for these measures?

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:36 pm

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That’s where you (and many other right wingers) keep screwing up, Poopajoe. The Constitution isn’t a laundry list of rights, and just because a right isn’t listed in it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. For example, the Constitution doesn’t specify that you have a right to own your own guns—just to bear arms. Does that mean you can’t own guns, then? No, because the Second Amendment has been historically interpreted as implying a right to own firearms, as well as to use them.

So it’s by no means a given that Americans DON’T have a right to health care. It’s a tricky issue, because if we all agree that they don’t, it means that hospital ERs aren’t obligated to treat you if they don’t want to; doctors can refuse to perform lifesaving surgery if you don’t have the means to pay for it; and there will be a lot of indigent Americans dying in the streets for lack of medical treatment.

Do you think such a scenario is in the best interests of a civilized nation that hopes to retain its rank as world leader? I don’t.

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 4:49 pm

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Your lack of knowledge is breathtaking. The Bill of Rights is just that. The Constitution – Articles 1-8 are the supreme laws of the land and the rules for how the federal government is to operate. The federal government has 18 enumerated powers. That’s it. Everything else is subject to the 9th and 10th Amendments. The reason why the 2d Amendment does not specify ownership is because the Constitution does not give the federal government the power to prohibit ownership. Again, go back and read the 9th and 10th Amendments. There was no interpretation your ignorance notwithstanding.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:54 pm

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AAAHHHH!!!
ANOTHER immensely satisfying turd!
I’m going to lose quite a bit of weight at this rate!

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:56 pm

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Kick, it is amazing how she can’t distinguish between the Bill of Rights, which I specifically referred to, and the amendments to the Constitution.
Makes me wonder how she got her degree, if she ever did.

RKae October 24, 2013 at 4:56 pm

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God…

Damn…

It.

When are leftist idiots going to understand the definition of what a “right” is? A right is something you’re free to go out and get if you choose to.

It is NOT something that will be provided for free at others’ expense!

Yes, people have the right to health care. That means take care of it YOURSELF!

Sidekick October 24, 2013 at 4:57 pm

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I should add the same goes with your misguided notion of what a right is. The Constitution does not give the federal government the enumerated power to bestow health insurance on the citizenry. Again, it isn’t prohibited so it becomes a 10th Amendment issue. Inalienable rights do not come from government, which is why, in part, progressives hate the founding documents. Natural rights.

Alien October 25, 2013 at 6:41 am

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Rights are tricky to me..

In(un)alienable never appears in Constitution.. DoI refers to them practically in the same breath that it also states that men establish governments to secure them (i.e. Creator-endowed, Government-secured)

Government secured right. Jefferson wrote that

Constitution makes no distinction about that is alienable or not, does it? Does it even legally matter?

Alien October 25, 2013 at 6:50 am

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apologies.. that double-posted, then i couldn’t edit the grammarisms

Sidekick October 25, 2013 at 7:27 am

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The Constitution does not mention rights because it is the supreme law of the land that enumerates what the federal government can do. The Bill of Rights was set up to codify the natural rights described in the DOI and ensure that the federal government ensures those rights are maintained.

I think RKae succinctly sums up what a right is. In other words a person’s rights stop where they infringe upon the rights of another. Health insurance or health care isn’t a right because it assumes that I have a claim on another’s (a doctor, for example) time, property, and labor. I don’t. In a free market society I must pay for another’s labor that benefits me. In a non-free market society, the state confiscates the wealth of its people and distributes that wealth in the form of health care (or any other commodity) as it sees fit.

sa_rose October 26, 2013 at 8:39 pm

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Currently. ED’ s are only required to stabilize a patient in an emergency situation. No ED is required to treat you for non-emergent accidents or illness.

flashingscotsman October 27, 2013 at 6:18 pm

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In other words, My Dear Sweet Olivia, you DO have a right to health care. And I have a right NOT to provide it for you.

Olivia October 27, 2013 at 7:21 pm

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Currently. ED’ s are only required to stabilize a patient in an emergency situation. No ED is required to treat you for non-emergent accidents or illness.
***************
No emergency department is going to take the chance of refusing to treat what looks like a non-emergent condition, Rose, and end up being sued if it turns out that the patient WAS medically unstable after all.

It’s also bad for a hospital’s reputation to be known as a place that rejects patients, for any reason. Extremely bad business practice.

Olivia October 27, 2013 at 7:26 pm

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In other words, My Dear Sweet Olivia, you DO have a right to health care. And I have a right NOT to provide it for you.
************
As I recall, the last time we discussed this a couple of years ago, you weren’t even paying for insurance for yourself, much less for someone else. So there’s really no need for you to play these we-right-wingers-always-have-to-give-money-to-the-lib’ruls games. I have my own health insurance, thank you, and I pay for it through my job.

poppajoe49 October 28, 2013 at 4:30 am

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WOW!!
Numbers 2 and 3 already!
Kind of early, but I’ll take the hat trick!

flashingscotsman October 31, 2013 at 8:36 am

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“It’s also bad for a hospital’s reputation to be known as a place that rejects patients, for any reason. Extremely bad business practice.”

You mean like the one that Michelle “worked” for before becoming First Hag?

“As I recall, the last time we discussed this a couple of years ago, you weren’t even paying for insurance for yourself, much less for someone else. So there’s really no need for you to play these we-right-wingers-always-have-to-give-money-to-the-lib’ruls games. I have my own health insurance, thank you, and I pay for it through my job.”

That’s right, My Dear Sweet Olivia, I still don’t have insurance. I can’t afford it, with what’s left over from paying for insurance for everyone else.

poppajoe49 October 31, 2013 at 8:47 pm

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Flash, that doesn’t matter, as long as you’re paying for someone else’s insurance!
Oblivious said so.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 4:59 am

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Oh, put a cork in it, Poopajoe. You don’t even bother to carry health insurance, so what would you even know about what health care premiums are doing this year?

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 5:17 am

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Because I shopped for them you stupid scrunt.

TURDS!

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 5:27 am

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Oh, SUUUUUURE you did. You just got done arguing that you don’t need health insurance because you’re healthy (or so you assume)—but now you claim you “shopped for” health care for your wife, and the cost suddenly tripled?

Your nose is growing, Poopajoe.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 5:38 am

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Stupid scrunt, my wife wanted to find out how much insurance was because she’s pushing 60 and is concerned she may need some procedures at some point in the near future. That’s how I know what it was last year. Now, with her freaking out over HAVING to get insurance or be fined, I shopped again and found the price increase.

Now go fuck yourself bitch.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 7:28 am

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I think it’s hilarious that people like you bitch and bitch and bitch about the poor supposedly failing to “Take Personal Responsibility”—–but then balk at taking responsibility for your own health care.

Exactly what I’ve found over and over among the most vocal right wingers: “Personal Responsibility” is something for OTHER people (especially brown skinned people who live in cities and vote Democratic) to demonstrate. You, on the other hand, are entitled to take without giving, as much as possible and as often as possible.

Can you say “hypocrisy”?

Paden October 24, 2013 at 10:45 am

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I call spell it to…

L.I.B.E.R.A.L

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:30 pm

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Paying for our own healthcare costs is taking personal responsibility you moronic troll.

sa_rose October 24, 2013 at 11:55 am

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He HAS health insurance as a veteran. He can be treated at any veteran”s hospital or clinic. He has repetitively stated his WIFE has nothing, and that they could not afford the new rates for insurance for HER. You need to have that short term memory loss checked out. You may be developing Alzheimers’s. Or dementia.

Olivia October 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm

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There’s nothing wrong with my memory, Rose. The fact is, I don’t pay that much attention to Poopajoe’s stated situation, because I think he spews more BS than truths here anyway.

Sorry, but I don’t have much sympathy for right wingers who whine that they can’t afford insurance. I’ve seen Poopajoe show zero sympathy for the plight of the working poor, claiming that if they weren’t lazy they wouldn’t have these problems. So I’m wondering why he doesn’t apply that snap solution to his own life.

You see, I’ve seen excuse after excuse from the right.

When we wanted universal health care (during the Clinton administration), they screamed in horror and said that’s SOCIALISM! Can’t have that—it makes people lazy and shiftless! Health insurance should come from the EMPLOYER, not the “gubmint”—that way, if you’re too lazy to work, you don’t get coverage.

So when the Democrats proposed that we REQUIRE employers to offer health care to employees, they screamed that THAT’S NOT FAIR TO EMPLOYERS! IT’LL HURT THEIR BUSINESS! YOU CAN’T DO THAT!

So when Obama adapted an old Republican strategy that combined some government restrictions with a FREE MARKET SOLUTION, they all started wringing their hands and saying, “BUT IT’S TOO EXPENSIVE! I CAN’T AFFORD IT!” (No mention was made of getting off their fat duffs and taking a second and even a third job if necessary, as they so often recommend to poor inner-city Americans who aren’t making it on fast food wages.)

Bottom line: we could all send Poopajoe big sums of money through Paypal to finance his wife’s insurance, and he’d still complain that it can’t be done. The fact is that he’s less interested in taking responsibility for his family health care needs, than he is in bitching endlessly about Obama.

poppajoe49 October 24, 2013 at 4:34 pm

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You miss the point. I said we couldn’t afford OBAMACARE insurance. Since we have been paying CASH for all my wife’s healthcare for some time now, we haven’t taken anything from anyone for her care.
I don’t give a flying fuck if you don’t believe what I say here, the people that actually count know I am telling the truth. I have personally met 3 of the folks here, and they know me to be truthful, so take your ugly troll ass down the road and talk to someone who gives a shit.

sa_rose October 26, 2013 at 8:25 pm

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Snitty today aren’t we? You are the on who refuses acknowledge the obvious. Right now 49.5% of the US population is receiving government assistance some kind. While that is appalling in the richest country in the world, it is also a little scary. How long do you think before we pass the tipping point and cannot support he remaining population? WhY will happen to the truly ill, disabled and ill?

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 8:46 am

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Snitty today aren’t we? You are the on who refuses acknowledge the obvious. Right now 49.5% of the US population is receiving government assistance some kind. While that is appalling in the richest country in the world, it is also a little scary. How long do you think before we pass the tipping point and cannot support he remaining population? WhY will happen to the truly ill, disabled and ill?
****************
What’s your reason for assuming that people other than yourself who receive assistance aren’t “truly” disabled or ill?

Your knowledge about those people is no more reliable than mine about you. If I were in the habit of making snap judgments about people, I’d say your posts make it sound as if you’re perfectly capable of working; yet others here tell me you’re disabled.

Is it safe to say that maybe I don’t have all the facts, and that there really ARE good reasons for you to be (as so many right wingers so viciously put it) “sucking on the government teat”? That’s what I’m assuming. You, on the other hand, seem to be assuming that you can tell at a glance which people AREN’T “truly ill or disabled.”

As the Bible (that book that right wingers like to use as a political weapon) says, “Judge not lest you be judged, and by the same standard that you yourself have applied.” In other words, Rose, if you’re going to accuse many or most of those receiving government support as cheaters and malingerers, the day may come when someone does that very same thing to you.

For the record, I’m willing to take your word for it that you’re no malingerer and leave it at that. Why won’t you do others the same courtesy?

PsychoDad October 28, 2013 at 8:49 am

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Oh please sugar, come over and sign up for a Twitchy account, we could have SO much fun with you over there!

PS — Schadenfreude Alert Level – Exquisite!

“Could the president please explain why I and others are losing our health ins. plans? Wasn’t supposed to happen!—
patti davis (@patti_davis) October 25, 2013″

Yes, the daughter of the late great Ronald Reagan has a case of the weepies.

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 12:57 pm

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Yes, I am on Social Security diability for End stage renal disease. THey don’t even look at my asthma, medication caused diabetes, spinal curvature, hypothyroidism et al. Essentially, though I have retired. My social security check is based on the nember of quarterw i worked and paid into the system, So its a little different thatn someone who never worked a days, was involved in and MVA and is now in a wheechair. And that person will endo up not on Social Security disability, but on suplemental social security which is very little and almost always results in getting other assistance, including food stamps. housing assistance, medicaid. etc/ And I think that is just fine. Its the 20 somethings who get their girlfriends pregnant, then sit in the food stam office with an arm draped possesively over her shoulder as she waits to apply for food stamps, housing, medicaid, etc. HE could be out working, or looking for a job, rather than wasting time in the office with her.

flashingscotsman October 31, 2013 at 8:41 am

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My Dear Sweet Olivia thinks that 49.5% of the country is sick or disabled.

Did anyone else watch the video of the Wal Mart that got over ran in Louisiana when the EBT cards lost their limits? I did, and I couldn’t find anyone there that looked disabled. Unless you consider, like liberals do, that being black is a disability.

poppajoe49 October 31, 2013 at 8:50 pm

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That doesn’t matter, Walmart doesn’t deserve to make a profit as long as one alcoholic, drug user, can’t afford plastic surgery.

/sarc

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:20 pm

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Yes, I am on Social Security diability for End stage renal disease. THey don’t even look at my asthma, medication caused diabetes, spinal curvature, hypothyroidism et al. Essentially, though I have retired. My social security check is based on the nember of quarterw i worked and paid into the system, So its a little different thatn someone who never worked a days, was involved in and MVA and is now in a wheechair. And that person will endo up not on Social Security disability, but on suplemental social security which is very little and almost always results in getting other assistance, including food stamps. housing assistance, medicaid. etc/ And I think that is just fine. Its the 20 somethings who get their girlfriends pregnant, then sit in the food stam office with an arm draped possesively over her shoulder as she waits to apply for food stamps, housing, medicaid, etc. HE could be out working, or looking for a job, rather than wasting time in the office with her.
***************
Well, first of all, I’m truly sorry that you have to cope with all those medical issues at once.

Second, you’re rattling out stereotypes there, based on glib assumptions. Surely you, of all people, should realize that disabling medical and psychiatric disorders aren’t always readily visible to the casual observer—-and that the people who actually read and process these clients’ applications are better qualified than you to decide whether or not they’re entitled to financial assistance.

One question I have, not just for you but for others who share your feelings about “these people” (we all know WHICH people most here are talking about, even though they won’t admit it): how do you feel about women who were homemakers all their lives? Do they, too, qualify as “people who never worked a day” and therefore are mooching off the government?

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:42 am

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No. They had a full time job running their households, chauffering the kids, entertaining to support their husband’s career. And I am not making glib assumptions. I have sat (for hours at a time) in food stamp offices, which in my area, also handle medicaid applications, though qualifying is very different for each plan. And I hve care for Medicaid patients, who tell mnethey have aworking spouse or boyfriend, but he is illegal, and gets paid under the table, so his income is not counted. I have seen food stamp applications where one “family” includes 30 people. About half still live in Mexico, but the all have SSN’s. There IS much abuse of the sytem. Just because you live in lala land doesn’t man the rest of us are living in a sack. We SEE what is happening! Hell, the news cannel report on it, even your precious Big 3, wh all clearly lean left. As several of us have repeatedly said that we are not against helping those in need. We just don’t want to enable those who COULD do more for them selves to do it.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 8:50 am

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No. They had a full time job running their households, chauffering the kids, entertaining to support their husband’s career.
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Oh, so you’re okay with giving social program benefits to SOME women who have never worked a day in their lives, but not others.

That’s kind of a slippery slope, Rose. Who’s to decide which never-worked-a-day-in-their-lives women get the goodies, and which don’t. Because not all women with productive and hardworking husbands are go-getters, nor are all black women in the ghetto all lazy slackers.
*************************
And I hve care for Medicaid patients, who tell mnethey have aworking spouse or boyfriend, but he is illegal, and gets paid under the table, so his income is not counted. I have seen food stamp applications where one “family” includes 30 people.
******************
If you’ve got as much experience as that, then you KNOW how foolish it is to jump to conclusions about a person’s work ethic or character, based only on his/her ethnicity, parenthood, love life, mailing address or fashion choices. You KNOW that some people who look respectable and modest and conventional are actually lazy slobs and/or alcoholics, and that some people who are black or Mexican or who have a lot of kids are respectable hard workers.

If you DIDN’T learn that, then you were apparently busier nursing prejudices than actually looking at the people in front of you, and noting that appearances can be deceptive.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:34 pm

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Since you’ve always enjoyed the benefits of socialized medicine, Poopajoe, what would you know about insurance premiums?

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:10 am

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Since I have only had VA healthcare for 3 years, what the fuck would you know, you stupid bitch?
I EARNED my healthcare from the VA, but didn’t use it until I had to. I have always had my own insurance except for the 5 years I was in the military.
Sorry to burst your bias bubble, but you don’t know shit.

Not so silent October 29, 2013 at 8:58 am

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She is just wasting here breath like always, she is a libtard with no point of view other than the fuhrer in D.C……

PsychoDad October 28, 2013 at 9:03 am

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Oh gang, it’s better, er worse, er, however you want to frame it:

“If those who are being dropped by their insurance companies due to #Obamacare (16 million) made up a state, it would be 5th largest in U.S.”

http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspot.com/2013/10/week-two-of-obamacare-federal-health.html#more

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/28/bam-rep-price-puts-the-o-care-cancellation-notice-avalanche-in-devastating-perspective/

Gee, what ever happened to “If you like your current plan, you can keep it?”

PsychoDad October 28, 2013 at 9:07 am

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Ha ha, all those married queer guys have to have maternity coverage, isn’t that part of the problem?!? LOL, what was a catastrophic fustercluck.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 9:13 am

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You do realize, don’t you, that homosexual women (called “lesbians,” in case you hadn’t heard of them before) can and do get pregnant, and require the same medical assistance that heterosexual women in the same situation require?

PsychoDad October 28, 2013 at 9:49 am

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How does a faithfully married lez get pregnant?

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 12:58 pm

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Invitro fertilization. VEEEERRYY expensive.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:04 pm

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Rose, a woman without fertility issues doesn’t need in vitro fertilization. To put it bluntly, a willing donor and a turkey baster syringe will do just as well.

Heterosexual women have been known to use the same technique.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:13 am

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Amazing that someone who is supposed to be a medical professional actually believes that bullshit.

Not so silent October 29, 2013 at 10:23 am

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Its nothing but talking points..Libtards can’t function without them or a teleprompter……I doubt she is in the medical profession, that came up the last time the ghost of libtards past visited IHTM….I am thinking she is more of a floor scrubber on the night shift at some board and care facility where the patients rot in their own filth….But hey I could be just “picking” on the libtard since nothing I say about her is P.C. anymore…

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 12:07 pm

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Silent? I never claimed to be in the “medical profession,” as that would make me a physician. I’m in the nursing profession.

The rest of your post is a transparent attempt at insults, to cover up for the fact that you can’t refute my comments here.

sa_rose October 30, 2013 at 11:53 am

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HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Everyone on this board has refuted yourt points Livvy! With links to variousdocuments, youtue recordings, etc to support what they say, You rarely, if ever provide link to anything. You comments are just that. our comments. They have no basis in fact, and as such, are generally wrong when examined. You are SOOOOOO delusional! God Help you husband. well, I guess he must live in LALA land as well.

Olivia October 31, 2013 at 5:43 am

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Rose, I hate to burst your bubble, but most of the links provided here (by you as well as some others) are hardly reliable. Take, for example, your Youtube link related to the Cinco de Mayo T shirt case. It was supposedly a news show, but it was obviously designed to elicit a particular response from viewers. Watch it again, and notice the first thing out of the guy’s mouth. Not an overall synopsis of the incident, as would be standard for news reporting, but a question to the audience as to whether they thought the school’s actions were “fair.”

That’s not news. That’s political cheerleading. And it’s worth LESS than providing no link at all, because such tactics often stack the deck, thereby slanting the viewer’s perception before s/he even hears the story.

poppajoe49 October 31, 2013 at 5:46 am

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Still way better than the links you provide, oh, wait, you don’t provide any links, just your opinion, which is totally worthless.

flashingscotsman October 31, 2013 at 8:46 am

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That’s what I was looking for. A nice steaming morning turd. Now I can go on about my business for the day.

Olivia November 1, 2013 at 12:33 pm

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HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Everyone on this board has refuted yourt points Livvy! With links to variousdocuments, youtue recordings, etc to support what they say
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Wrong, Rose. The fact is that many of those “cancellations” are due to the fact that certain highly profitable insurance practices (like arbitrarily cancelling when the insuree gets seriously ill, or lifetiime ceilings on mental health treatment) are no longer legal. Obviously, these policies have to be revamped in order to meet the new guidelines.

That’s no more scandalous than it would be for a baby crib manufacturer to recall a bunch of cribs because they were painted in China, using paint containing lead, which is illegal here in the U.S. But saying, “Thousands of insurance policies have been pulled out of circulation because they need to be altered to conform with the new laws” doesn’t grab the attention as readily as “THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS JUST LOST THEIR INSURANCE AS A RESULT OF ‘OBAMACARE’!”

That’s one mistake you keep making here: you watch a Youtube video (which, 9 times out of 10, has been carefully edited to shape your thinking), and take it as gospel instead of going to the trouble to get the whole story. Of course, that’s exactly what the right WANTS you to do. It’s called “stacking the deck,” and is yet another classic propaganda technique.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/31/us-usa-healthcare-cigna-idUSBRE99U15O20131031

Alien November 1, 2013 at 1:07 pm

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You think a turkey baster wouldn’t work? (context is women without fertility issues)

It’d be highly unpleasant, but I’m sure my untrained medical self could pull it off

GhostntheMachine November 1, 2013 at 2:50 pm

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Don’t forget the standing on the head and the important role gravity plays in that highly complex medical procedure.

Olivia November 2, 2013 at 1:15 am

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It’d be highly unpleasant, but I’m sure my untrained medical self could pull it off
***********************
….speaking figuratively, I assume……….? ;>)

BlizzardCreek November 3, 2013 at 11:34 am

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Olivia,

I have been reading your posts for a while. I must say that you are one intelligent person who is quite knowledgeable. Have you ever considered making a blog with all the writing you have done? I’m sure it would be a great hit.

Keep up the good work. Even though you may have a lot of downvotes, there are many people out there who admire your posts.

poppajoe49 November 3, 2013 at 11:39 am

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Obviously, the low info voters reelected Obama after all.

Olivia November 3, 2013 at 12:09 pm

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Thank you, Blizzard. :>D

sa_rose November 3, 2013 at 1:09 pm

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A blog would be great. SHe could spew there and we could CHOOSE whether we want to see it or not, and our in boxes will be free and easy once more.

Not so silent November 7, 2013 at 8:51 pm

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Olivia’s boyfriend, and cat sitter….no surprise there..

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:45 am

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Actually, that is a fallacy. It is a delicate procedure, and doesn’t always “take” even if done in a doctor’s office wilth a well trained physican. I can’t believe as a nurse you would reference a turkey baster. Oh, wait. Yeah, I guess I can.

Olivia October 29, 2013 at 12:06 pm

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I’m just telling it like it is, Rose. Not everyone runs to a doctor when they want to get pregnant, but don’t have, and aren’t looking for, a boyfriend or a husband.

I didn’t realize it was inappropriate for nurses to know about turkey basters. Would it make it less offensive to you if I called it an irrigation syringe instead?

sa_rose October 30, 2013 at 11:54 am

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I am not surprise you know of them. I am surprised that you would in any way refer to them as a way to get artificially inseminated. Cows get better tha that!

Olivia October 31, 2013 at 5:51 am

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Rose, I didn’t say I admire or recommend the turkey baster procedure—-I just pointed out that people sometimes use such methods.

Makes more sense, I guess, then having sex with someone who means nothing to you, except as a sperm donor. And it definitely makes more sense than going to a fertility specialist, if you don’t have a problem with infertility.

sa_rose October 28, 2013 at 1:05 pm

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What does that have to do with anything? The thread states a shitload of people are getting canned by their insurance, because te new policies have higher requirements that the old ones. That’s it. It really is happening across the nation and no amount of unicorn farts is going to make it any different. You have arrgued allla around the subject, but caregull avoided the trugh that has been deliniated. It doesn’t matter how we feel about insurance, or the need to cover the uninsured, or their need for insurance. IN leading up to this boondoggle that I have always said has nothing to do with healthcare, and is all about PAYMENT for healthcare. And the lies we were told, and the political manipulations done to gt the bill passed again, had nothing to do with improving life for the impoverished. We were lied to again and again,, and now that they are trying to roll it out, the lies come tumbling out right along with it. You unwillingness or inability to see what’s right in front of you is exactly what I meant about treating Obama as a messiah.

Olivia October 28, 2013 at 2:10 pm

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Rose, I’d like to see your statistics supporting your claim that “a shitload of people are getting canned by their insurance.”

Once you’ve produced that (yeah, right), maybe you can tell us what YOU think should be done to ensure that all Americans have affordable health care. And please don’t even bother trotting out the usual “Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines” and “Let the free market take care of it” right wing mantra. Those ideas will do zilch for those who most need insurance right now—–i.e., the ones who didn’t have and couldn’t get affordable health care prior to reform measures.

I’m also not a bit interested in the glib right wing “most of them don’t deserve insurance because they’re too lazy” excuse. Unless you’re prepared to come out and admit that you’re fine with condemning selected Americans to untreated disease and premature death, that’s just a cowardly evasion from the issue.

poppajoe49 October 29, 2013 at 4:15 am

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We’ve already posted links to ABC, NBC, and CBS stories that hundreds of thousands in Florida and California have lost their insurance. In fact, this thread is all about that, it’s just that you have so badly hijacked it, that you forgot what the OP was all about.

sa_rose October 29, 2013 at 8:48 am

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Oh, Livvy, Livvy, Livvy. How little faith!

http://youtu.be/q3wf1XptDhE

Olivia October 31, 2013 at 5:55 am