Praise be to Allah: Dutch officially abandon multiculturalism

by editor on June 29, 2011

Every once in a while – far more often than can be called mere coincidence – the mainstream American media miss a story of great import. Of course, the thread that ties all those missing stories together is that they contain news that runs counter to liberal dogma.

Like this story about the Netherlands officially abandoning that most cherished of crackpot liberal schemes, multiculturalism.

netherlands-muslim-protest

After an absence of several years, sanity is returning to the Netherlands

The mainstream media won’t cover it, so we have to depend on a podunk publication like Hudson New York:

A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads: “The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society.”

The letter continues: “A more obligatory integration is justified because the government also demands that from its own citizens. It is necessary because otherwise the society gradually grows apart and eventually no one feels at home anymore in the Netherlands. The integration will not be tailored to different groups.”

From now on, more will be expected of immigrants to the Netherlands. They’ll have to learn the Dutch language and obey Dutch laws and adopt Dutch values.

And best of all, no more extra subsidies for Muslim immigrants, no more burqas, no more forced marriages.

In other words, no more lunacy.

Source: Hudson New York

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139 Comments on "Praise be to Allah: Dutch officially abandon multiculturalism"

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Sidekick
Member
RockingHorseGuy
Member

Yeah, they’re peaceful alright. As long as you don’t publish a cartoon not on their approved list.

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

I found this – http://frontpagemag.com/2011/07/15/prince-of-lies/ – to be of interest and timely with regard to this topic so I’m just gonna stick it here and let you all have at it! Another ‘Religion of Peace’ update to begin your week. Never let the facts ruin a good story.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

That’s quite an interesting article there, Formerly. I find it useful to note that the left sees no problem with racism, as long as it is practiced by them, or the foul evil ones that they support.

Olivia
Member

That’s quite an interesting article there, Formerly. I find it useful to note that the left sees no problem with racism, as long as it is practiced by them, or the foul evil ones that they support.
************************
Actually, that’s not true. Used-to-be-Dean is using an opinion piece from a rabidly anti-Muslim website to serve as “proof” that Islam is bad. Well, duh. That’s like citing an opinion piece from VDare.com to “prove” that black Americans are intellectually inferior to white Americans.

The way to find out why black Americans choose to convert to Islam is to ask them. An intelligent person would ask why “articles” like this don’t bother to interview Muslim converts, but prefer instead to speak for them (and, by an amazing coincidence, support their own prejudices in the process). An intelligent person might also see something “racist” about a “reporter” who sees no need to let black Muslim converts speak for themselves, assuming that s/he can do a better job interpreting their feelings and motives than they can themselves.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Glad I didn’t go to bed. I still had a turd left.

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

Never let the facts ruin a good story.

sa_rose
Member

Just a quick comment on the original thread of this post. Some of our most well known and beloved patriotic songs of America were written by an immigrant (legal) who so loved this country, and wanted to share how he felt about his new country he wrote songs about the beauty of America, the American way, and emphasized his complete converstion to being an American. Current Americans (and others) should take note.

thatguy
Guest

Anyone know if this became law?
“A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16”
Things get “presented” in this country all the time. Nothing comes of it. The HOR even voted to repeal Obama”care”, we are still stuck with it.
I hope and pray that this bill becomes a law and spreads around the world. However it may be too soon to celebrate just yet.

Jim Stewart
Member

A Muslim kid can’t find his mother in the supermarket.
The store attendant says ‘What does your mother look like?’

The kid says “How the hell should I know?”

KimmyQueen
Guest

Ok… that right there… Hi.la.rious!

Olivia
Member

A Muslim kid can’t find his mother in the supermarket.
The store attendant says ‘What does your mother look like?’

The kid says “How the hell should I know?”

******************
Dumb joke. Did you not realize that even very conservative Muslim women take the face veils off at home?

perlcat
Member

Humorless troll.

It’s a joke. Get it? No, I didn’t think you did. Everything is an issue with you — even your issues have issues, as they say.

Get a life.

Olivia
Member

Humorless troll.

It’s a joke.
************************
Jokes based on ignorance and bigotry aren’t funny, Perlcat. At least, not to intelligent human beings.

You, of course, may feel differently. 😉

KimmyQueen
Guest

“your last paragraph sums up my sentiments exactly. It is a conservative virtue which i admire, applied to the nation as a whole. It reflects the latin which has embedded itself in my mind for as long as I remember thinking about such things: deus absconditus. At the very least this is how I view God vis-a-vis the fate of nations, which may cast a rather Atheistic light on my statements (especially the quick mobile snark)

I don’t mean to diss your beliefs when I express mine. I just believe that everything about our fate–America’s–wholly rests on our shoulders (and this does in fact give me pause at times)”

I cannot reply… so I am starting a new thing.

Well that is the thing many founders did not believe that He was hidden, they believed that He just not visible. There is a difference. A G-d who is not visible, but whose Presence is felt through history.

In the end like I said, you are going to have to do your own research. The USA should not exist. At least not as it was founded and the forces of evil that are making a stand against it (like they are doing with Israel) should make everyone pause. Why is it that the US is a threat to so many people? What is it about this country that is so different that so many want to destroy from without and from within? I refuse to believe that the exceptionalism we (and yes I do say we) have as a country is just because we just want freedoms more than those who do not like us, or the enemies from within. There has to be something more and I personally do not want to shoulder this all by myself. I am after all imperfect and so is everyone else. If there is a Benign G-d that cared for this country enough to make it possible even though it shouldn’t really exist at all, wanting His Blessings is nothing to look down upon. That is all that I am saying.

Sure it takes people to make a country, however I believe that this country wouldn’t exist unless a Force was behind it with His Blessings. LIke I said many times this is something that is shared with T. Jefferson, G. Washington among many many others. Those men were not stupid and their fruit speak for itself.

trackback

[…] Source: A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads: “The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society.” […]

sa_rose
Member

I have been saying for years that what Americans don’t get is if enough Muslims immigrate here, and decline to assimilate, they will eventually have a voting majority and they can CHANGE the Constitution to suit them. And not only are they immigrating, they are reproducing like rabbits, and converting Americans like wildfire, by giving them a set of rules to follow that will supposedly ensure their holiness and make their life great. Acceptance of grace is very difficult. Earning one’s way is more acceptable to many (as was discussed in the earlier conversation-blessings vs work.) In our predominately Hispanic city, Hookah bars Arabian groceries are making a real dint in many middle class neighborhoods. It is only a matter of time.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I go to Middle Eastern grocery stores all the time. But then again, here in the San Diego area, those stores are owned and operated by Christians that fled their home countries in fear of being killed for their beliefs.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I get emails everyday of someone in prison, died, beaten or a slew of other offenses and victim of violence and most of those are coming from people in the Middle East and from Asian Muslim countries. I do admire those that stay to fight the good fight, but I cannot blame those that leave. It is hell over there for Christians… I am not saying that lightly.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I just think it’s sad that people have to take their families and leave their own homeland to protect themselves from Islamic thuggery. Imagine if Islam hadn’t ruined their homeland, and these good people had been able to stay, how much nicer a place Iraq or Iran would be now? But for me, I’m glad they are here. They’re good friends.

Olivia
Member

I have been saying for years that what Americans don’t get is if enough Muslims immigrate here, and decline to assimilate, they will eventually have a voting majority and they can CHANGE the Constitution to suit them.
*************************
Psssst, Deb: civil rights and liberties are not subject to a popularity vote. Did you not understand that? Did you also not realize that many Muslims want the same liberties you want? Contrary to what the far right has taught their followers throughout history, that target group you’ve been led to despise is made up of human beings. And it’s no more appropriate to judge all Muslims based on a radical fringe element, than it would be to judge all Christians by Jim Jones (of Jonestown infamy).

That them-scary-looking-furriners-is-looking-to-bring-the-country-down mentality has been going on for generations. Groups targeted by that kind of bigotry have included the Anabaptists, the Irish, the Chinese, Catholics, Jews, Japanese, black integrationists and anyone with a dark skin tone and a funny accent. And, amazingly enough, not one of those groups has succeeded in destroying this country. In most cases, they only enhanced its greatness.

sa_rose
Member

THe entire COnstitution is subject to ammendement by a 2/3 majority vote. If the extremist Muslims can achieve that 2/3 they can change anything including the bill of rights. Don’t be ignorant. Pull your head out of your ass and look around. PS And if you don’t think immigrant groups like the Irish, Italiens, Germans, Chinses and others have not made a change in our country, you are a fool. If nothing else, drive down the streets in your hometown and se how many businesses are owned by immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Look at the restaurant choices-you can hardly find a basic, American food restaraurant. But Chinese, Mexican, Italian littler the landscape! It is impossible for any large immigrant group NOT to make some changes in the country where they immigrated. Just most are not trying to overtake the wrld and impose their religion (the Irish, for instance, were hard core Cathoilc, but they never tried to make Roman Catholicism the state reliogion. Same with CHinese, etc.)

KimmyQueen
Guest

Most immigrants want to keep aspects of their home culture with them while at the same time assimilating into the culture they willingly entered into… or else affecting the new culture without changing the fundamentals… unlike someone else whose name starts with O.

Olivia
Member

THe entire COnstitution is subject to ammendement by a 2/3 majority vote. If the extremist Muslims can achieve that 2/3 they can change anything including the bill of rights. Don’t be ignorant. Pull your head out of your ass and look around. PS And if you don’t think immigrant groups like the Irish, Italiens, Germans, Chinses and others have not made a change in our country, you are a fool. If nothing else, drive down the streets in your hometown and se how many businesses are owned by immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Look at the restaurant choices-you can hardly find a basic, American food restaraurant. But Chinese, Mexican, Italian littler the landscape! It is impossible for any large immigrant group NOT to make some changes in the country where they immigrated. Just most are not trying to overtake the wrld and impose their religion (the Irish, for instance, were hard core Cathoilc, but they never tried to make Roman Catholicism the state reliogion. Same with CHinese, etc.)
*************************
PLease provide several examples of actions initiated by American Muslims, with the intention of turning Islam into “the state religion” in the U.S.

When you’re done with that (yeah, right), please tell us which of your constitutionally protected rights have been violated by Muslims, and in what way. Real, stated rights, mind you, not hokey complaints like “I should have a right not to have to look at women in Muslim dress,” or “It offends me when I hear about schools eliminating Christmas pageants in towns with a high Muslim population.”

perlcat
Member

Some 3,000 had their right to live and breathe eliminated by muslims.

Honor killings have been imported into this country.

Muslims have stated that they want to establish the Global Caliphate, and have expressed a desire to fly the flag of Islam over our nation’s capital.

However, being a liberal tool, I fully expect you to selectively disregard all of this.

Larry Elder says it far better than I could:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder092310.php3

KimmyQueen
Guest

TURDS!!!!!!!

sa_rose
Member

And once again, you pull something out of your ass and try to argue, thinking you look intelligent. FAIL! What part of “if EXTREMIST Muslims CAN ACHIEVE a 2/3 majority vote. . . ” did you miss? I didn’t say all Muslims, I didn’t say anything was happening now, I said it is a real possibility in the future. And there HAVE been instances where Muslims have challenged American citizens of all faiths and no faith, to abide by their sharia law preferences (like the guy in Houston that bought property near a pig farm, then wanted the pig farmer to shut down.) Once again, you are arguing for the sake of argument. What a morin!

Olivia
Member

And once again, you pull something out of your ass and try to argue, thinking you look intelligent. FAIL! What part of “if EXTREMIST Muslims CAN ACHIEVE a 2/3 majority vote. . . ” did you miss? I didn’t say all Muslims, I didn’t say anything was happening now, I said it is a real possibility in the future.
************************
There is virtually ZERO chance of that ever happening, Deb. For one thing, it’s not merely a “2/3 majority vote.” Just to propose an amendment to the Constitution requires either a 2/3 vote of both Houses of Congress, or a national convention proposed by 2/3 of the state legislatures.

But that’s just to propose it. For it to be ratified, a full 3/4 of state legislatures must vote for it.

So where are all these Muslim extremists that are frightening you to death? How many of them are currently serving in state or federal legislatures? And of those who are, how many have even hinted that they want to force Sharia law on the entire country?

It intrigues me that those who have defended the idea of the U.S. having an “official” religion (evangelical Christianity, of course) are now so scared that another religion would try to muscle its way in. If the Religious Right hasn’t succeeded in getting its religious beliefs made into government policy, after all their efforts, what in the world makes you think that Muslims could or would do so?

Sounds like you’ve been listening to some let’s-scare-’em-all-into-compliance right wing media manipulators. They do seem to spend 90% of their time fanning the flames of fear and rage in their more gullible followers.

sa_rose
Member

Who said I was scared of Muslims? As the old saying goes,. some of my best friends are Muslim. Also Jews, various Christian denominations, wiccans, self procvlaimed pagans and those with no faith at all. I never have claimed that America was an Evangelical Christian nation, only that the founding fathers (and others) based much of their system of laws and justice on Judeo Christian traditions. Remember the picture of Torah on the Supreme Court Building? You are so ignorant is it pathetic. FAIL FAIL FAIL!!!!! And for the millionth time, I don’t listen or pay attention to extreme right wingers. You seem to more of that than I. I don’t even know what they say, but you are quite fluent in their rhetoric. Are you real;ly a liberal?

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Finally, got a turd. Now I can go to bed.

David Bishop
Member

Where is Olivia in this? Why does she never show up on an indefensible post?

hisham
Guest

She, like all progressive libtard wackos, is afraid to jump into something that might get her head cut off if she says the multiculturally wrong thing!

sa_rose
Member

Shhhhh!

KaylaKW
Member

she started to say something. But then I guess she realized that she would be fighting a losing battle… now if only she would realize it elsewhere…

Plus no one replied to her to fuel her. Guess we learned the trick. 😀

RockingHorseGuy
Member

There’s still a few who like to argue with her. They haven’t caught on yet. You’re not going to teach her anything. Her skull is like a brick wall.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I am learning that you cannot discuss or argue with certain people that refuse to see the light.

scr_north
Member

Good for the Dutch. I hope they are ready to take to the streets though because that is what it will take to win back their country. It’s going to get lots worse before it gets better. The radical muslims (and those muslims cowed and living in fear from these facist mullahs and their followers) won’t give up what control they have easily.

alien
Guest

are those signs for f-cking real??

f-ck them.

perlcat
Member

Yes, they were from that time when those vicious cartoons and their evil genocidal ways threatened the peace-loving goat herders while they were minding their own culturally relevant pastime of knitting lovely ethnic decorative vests out of detocord and working on an interpretive dance entitled “sashay up to the schoolchildren and go BOOM”.

Alien
Member

seriously that cartoon bullsh-t really pissed me off

Just like Taliban blowing up all those awesome Buddhist shrines in Afghanistan before we dropped in on their skulls

I feel dumb for missing those signs back then

perlcat
Member

We all feel dumb for having missed that. I suppose we were all busy rooting for Charlie Wilson’s war to realize we were empowering the criminally insane. Short of religious reform, that problem will never go away. Even after religious reform, there would be problems. If you’ve ever read the Khayyam’s Rubaiyat, or the stories behind it, you’d recognize the same types.

It’s all about control — control over the social contract.

“A Book of Verses underneath the Bough,
A Jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread — and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness —
Oh, Wilderness were Paradise enow!”

That doesn’t sound like your average whacko, but they surely repressed him.

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

You haven’t yet enjoyed the fine young men and their happy chants?

Anonymous
Guest

The polices of multiculturalism was put in the first place because, despite all the reassuring lies to the publics, it was expected that the so-called immigrants would not accept the values of the countries they immigrated to as their own, nor to the local way of life and laws.

KimmyQueen
Guest

So… basically they are asking for immigrants to behave like immigrants… wow what a concept.

Yes when you leave a country and move willingly to another country you learn the language, follow the laws and do as the natives do. Ever heard the saying “When in Rome…”?

I don’t even understand what is so “foreign” and strange about being part of a culture that a person willingly entered into. So the only thing that I can think of is that these people are both arrogant and wishing to change the culture into the one they left. Why? Perhaps because it was a mandate to conquer through overpopulation leading to law changes and so on. In addition to bombs, wars and terrorism, it seems the next part of the “Let’s conquer the infidels” package is to overpopulate non-muslim countries and birth the natives out of significance.

What that I hear about a new Crusade? Or is that just wishful thinking?

RockingHorseGuy
Member

If they wanted to act and live just like where they came from, why did they leave?

KimmyQueen
Guest

If they want to live like they did in their home country all that was needed was for them to stay. I believe something is afoot. Like an imam telling people to leave and conquer infidels and asking women to breed as many little muslims as they can. It is a very insidious plan.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Okay thumbs down person state your business unless you are a coward?

Not so silent
Member

There is a naked thumbs down bandit running loose in the threads….No argument, no common sense, just a mouse clicking hater.

Vic
Member

This has bothered me as well. When you look at history, for example the Europeans coming over to America to make a better life for themselves, and their families, While they brought their cultures along with them, they didn’t do it, to force their cultures down anyone’s throats. Contrast that to the Muslims. They are out to concur the world, and force their cultures on us. Why would they demand to build their building so close to “ground zero”?
And don’t worry. Our troll is back. We only go a few weeks at a time without one.

Anonymous
Guest

They aren´t supposed to be immigrants but tools of social engineering to “reform” the western nations, all for the greater good of course.

Liberasts have the advantage today but know that in the long run, the public of the western nations won´t accept this greater good of their.

Liberalism is also a racist ideology, even if it pretend it isn´t, its policies says much otherwise.
Liberals likes to state that those against gays are themselves trying to hidde, repress their own homosexuality. That is projection, the reason liberasts gets so uppset about anything raaaacist is because they are themselves trying to keep their own racism in the closet.

KimmyQueen
Guest

“That is projection, the reason liberasts gets so uppset about anything raaaacist is because they are themselves trying to keep their own racism in the closet.”

I agree.

David Bishop
Member

No offense to your comment, but please don’t bring gays into this. There is much scientific (even christian) evidence proving that gayness is a genome-relevant trait that is triggered by environmental conditions. I do not blame gays for being gay, yet on the off-stance, I despise abortions. Science can map the genome and realize that some people, even non-sexually abused people (as a LOT of gays are) are still capable of being inherently homosexual. However, murder is murder. Bring other things into the fight. Homosexuality is, unfortunately however against the Bible, something that is occuring even amongst Christians (My nephew is an “undercover” minister at his church.) I just don’t think we should be picking our fights with the gays.

Alien
Member

I agree. Any fiscal conservative movement would be paid back in spades for unequivocal tolerance of gays

KimmyQueen
Guest

Absolutely. True tolerance is that to state that even though I may not agree with the behavior (the lifestyle) nor do I determine it to be equal to my own lifestyle, I will not discriminate against gays or determine them personally as lesser than me in any way shape or form. I dont have to accept their behavior as equal to my own, but I can and should tolerate them as equal to me (human being). Being homosexual doesn’t necessarily mean they are evil people. Conservatism is best served in diversity. Conservative gays understand what I am trying to say here.

KaylaKW
Member

Thank you for speaking my thoughts out FOR me! I couldn’t have said it better myself.

hisham
Guest

They are, however, a party of interest…

Babydoll102187
Member

Funny you should mention this, I was jsut reading last night about the amendment to the hate crimes laws to include homosexuals. I just hope speaking out against it doesnt become condeming and silence their rights to freedom of speech. Its not hard in this day to get carried away with the whole”your oppressing me, it must be a hate crime” sort of mentality, I hope pastors and reverands are not silenced by our government because of this new law. It can happen, even if it shouldnt.

hisham
Guest

Look no further than Canada and see if you can guess what’s coming here to a pulpit nere you.

KimmyQueen
Guest

That is a good point. A pastor should say that the behavior is sinful in freedom and that G-d has been very specific about it. However a pastor shouldn’t say that gays should be murdered. There is where the difference lies as per hate and so on. What Iran does is evil and interestingly enough it is Christian organizations that are speaking against it en masse whereas liberal orgs are so silent about it for the most part… why?

sa_rose
Member

Gays are sinners. So are we all.so Their sin is no worse than yours and mine. None of us has the right to judge them. However, they also do not have the right to judge me for what I believe. Tit for tat, guys!

KimmyQueen
Guest

I have never intimidated that. Like I said, I disagree with the lifestyle, however I don’t discriminate against gays. I am more than willing to bet (even though lacking in an actual study) that gays are much more safer in this country than in most countries around the world. This constant ranting and raving by the homosexual propaganda that they need to fight for their rights is obnoxious. Gay men are on average richer than the average married couple for obvious reasons. The MEN especially have great opportunities that a lesbian women wouldn’t have just by the fact of being male, so their sexuality is not an issue unless they make it an issue.

KimmyQueen
Guest

intimated*

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Trust me, Kimmy. None of us who know you thought you intimidated.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Thank you 🙂

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

I agree with your sentiments but have a bit of difficulty with the particular part of the phrase saying “an abomination unto God” is on the same level as some other sin. I suppose, since any of em can getcher azz swimming in the lake o’ fire, then they’re all the same?

(This comment is in reply to Deb from June 30th. It seems pretty far off the page reading it where it landed…)

KimmyQueen
Guest

Where is this Christian evidence? I would like to see it please. Thanks.

I have no problems with gay people just as long as they dont sue me for my beliefs or sue my church because my church won’t unite them in marriage it is all good. Just as long as they dont get all loud and start suing companies or businesses because they have a conscience that tells them that dealing with the homosexual agenda is not good for them nor their businesses. However dealing with individual homosexuals is not a problem for many of these businesses it is just the agenda that is a problem. I welcome gays into my Church, all day long. Conservative gays lead their lives privately where it should be and understand that the behavior is an issue and the agenda, but not necessarily them as an individual person. I am a Christian and there ain’t no one in this world that is going to stop me. If I was a lesbian… I would be a lesbian without apologies. That is just who I be. However, I’m not a lesbian, do not believe that homosexuality is an appropriate lifestyle for me. I’ll keep my sexuality in the bedroom where it should be and only ask for everyone, gays and straights alike, to keep theirs in their bedrooms as well.

Not so silent
Member

One down, many more to go. I wonder if we will ever have politicians with enought balls to do the right thing instead of whinning and playing the race/rich/gimme cards.

nonkenyan
Member

If you have the time:

http://youtu.be/6-3X5hIFXYU
http://youtu.be/QQKn4c7I2W4
You might want to turn down the music on this one. I don’t speak the language.

rightinwa
Member

Nothing like economic collapse (the probable end of the European Union…thanks Ireland! Thanks Greece! Thanks Spain and Italy and whoever else follows) to bring back good ol’ fashioned nationalism.

alien
Guest

don’t lump Ireland in with Greece.. their situation, and the response to it, couldn’t be more different

alien
Guest

don’t be hatin the Eire

perlcat
Member

Aye, the race that gave us Guinness is a special group, indeed.

Alien
Member

Aye indeed.. And look at that, my original comment rose from the ashes of a 0-3 deficit.. that is the luck of the Irish at work

David Bishop
Member

The economic collapse of the Greeks has nothing to do with the Greeks. It has to do with the strongarming of their economy to adapt the Euro when their economy had no plausible way of doing so. Economic ideologies can almost never interact with eachother. Some deny equilibrium theory. Others acknowledge the splendor of it. They cannot coincide. Much like Socialism and Republicanism.

whiskeyriver
Guest

Cheers for Holland!! They are learning what we straight thinking, common sense, types have known all along. The majority of Muslims do not immigrate to other countries to assimilate, to embrace the way of life in the country they choose to live in. They have no tolerance for other religions and it shows in their actions and words.

The “Religion of Peace” is anything but that. The Muslim dogma is all about repression of the believers, do as I say or die, and the annihilation of all people who do not bow down to their Allah. One step at a time, one person at a time, radical Muslims have learned how to take most European countries over because of the socialist, liberal leanings of their governments.

What will happen when Islam has taken over Europe? We will see countries who are broke, with its citizens so beaten down they will have no choice but join the Muslim movement or die. The biggest thorn in the Muslim side is US, the United States of America. We own guns and no matter what the fools in Washington say, we will protect ourselves against anyone that dares attack our country.

Blue blood may rule Europe but red blood still rules America. God, Guns and Guts made our country the richest, most powerfull, most generous country known to man and I, for one, will never let some sheethead tell me how I should live.

Babydoll102187
Member

You put a smile on my face and reminded me of just how many gun bearing Americans live with our borders:)!

alien
Guest

Guns and Guts for sure

We don’t rely on blessings here

KimmyQueen
Guest

I am not sure who is we, however even though you do not want blessings others do want them and/or need them and they are none lesser for it.

alien
Guest

“We” is America.. America is exceptional because it muscled itself into existence, not because of the largesse of dieties

Individuals seeking blessings from God I have no issue with at all, and I do not think they are the lesser for it

RockingHorseGuy
Member

But still, some of us don’t need them. And surprisingly enough, we do just fine without them. When I sneeze, and somebody says “Bless you” I politely, even cheerfully, say “No thanks, I’m ok.” It keeps them guessing.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Those of you that do not need them do not have to be petty when someone else does. All that the man said is that he is going to add blessings from G-d to his survival arsenal and he was summarily told that “we” don’t have to rely on those blessings… really? We? Maybe some like you said. What you said was correct some of you don’t and that is fine by me.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Geez, mention politely declining the blessing, and everyone goes all thumbs down on you. So much for respecting other people’s beliefs.

Alien
Member

you have to politely absorb the blessing, i suppose

I remember i got roped into a conversation with a madman @ Chicago Music Store in Tucson (damn I miss that place). I would have to guess he was schizophrenic.. he was fascinating yet i couldn’t follow him half the time. Cheerful, yet every now and then he would grimly remember some incident with federalis which i couldn’t put together.

But i had to cut it off eventually, and I bid him farewell with a “May Fortune smile upon you..” He looked quizzically at me, for a moment, then shouted “FORTUNE IS A WHORE!!”. Hilarious

A while later i think i realized he’d rebuffed me with Shakespeare..

perlcat
Member

Epic crazy win.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

“you have to politely absorb the blessing, i suppose”

It’s not good enough to politely decline the blessing? Now, if I was to get in somebody’s face, and tell them that I don’t believe in their God, and don’t have any need for His blessing, I could consider that rude. But I’m a polite kind of guy, at least with people who mean me no harm.

KimmyQueen
Guest

If an atheist (or an agnostic) and I are talking for the first time and I do not know that he or she is one and I amicably tell him or her that I wish blessings from my benign G-d upon him or her (for whatever reason) and he or she tells me that he or she is an atheist or agnostic so doesn’t believe or questions G-d’s existence however, he or she thanks me for the thought (and this has happened), if done politely I will not have a problem with it. However, stating that he or she has no need for the blessings it can be thought as mean, because it was well intended and it can be considered as a rejection of the person giving the blessing and thus can be considered unfriendly. Regardless of the rejection of the Deity Himself, when a person’s well intentions and thoughts gets rejected (even if done “politely”) it may not necessarily engender friendliness. You may of course state that the person should not take it to heart and is it true for me as many many times I have been thus rejected and have grown to just move on with my life, however it is what it is and it may be an issue for others.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

That’s why I say No thank you. Thank you is part of that answer. Then I assure them that I’m ok. It was just a sneeze.

Babydoll102187
Member

LOL! Thats Awsome!

KimmyQueen
Guest

I had no problem with your post. You were correct in your estimation. I basically had a problem with the “we” part.

sa_rose
Member

Persoally, I don’t care how you feel about the blessing, or any other sneeze related comment. I just think its good manners to let it pass and not make a big deal out of it. But I don’t think you deserved thumbs down! :))

Olivia
Member

Persoally, I don’t care how you feel about the blessing, or any other sneeze related comment. I just think its good manners to let it pass and not make a big deal out of it. But I don’t think you deserved thumbs down! )
********************
Saying “God bless you” after a sneeze is a social convention, not an attempt at religious conversion. What’s wrong with just taking it for what it was—-an acknowledgement that someone sneezed, and that no offense was taken—–and leaving it at that?

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Thirds! It’s about time I got back in the game.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

My Dear Sweet Olivia, what on earth makes you think that I take offense to someone trying to confer blessings from their God onto me? I very politely decline the blessings, as I do not have any need for them.
Now, when somebody calls upon their God to damn me, I do get a bit upset by that.

KimmyQueen
Guest

This is of course if you discount history. Where history had made it clear that many of those who founded and fought for this country DID ask for blessings from above in order to make their actions successful. It is nice to ignore the things that you don’t like about the foundational history of ths country.

Yes it is nice to believe that it was all done through human effort, and I actually have no problem with you believing that. However it never hurts to ask for extra blessings and it is not cool to disregard those that do or did. Okay so you believe that it was all human effort, awesome, but being all petty, because someone wants to add blessings from G-d to their survival arsenal is sad in my humble opinion.

Yes it is true that this is not a theocracy. It shouldn’t be as it can be misused by man. “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion” — George Washington. If it were it would be exclusive not inclusive… However, “Almighty God, we make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy holy protection; that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government.” I am sure he meant if the government was benign, the point is the same. George Washington was man enough to recognize that someone (or something) greater than himself and the whole country was afoot in making the country successful. This country in all reality should have not existed. The British Army was a professional unstoppable forced that subjugated countries in different continents and a bad of unprofessional, unprepared, poor and starving men beat them? Yes America IS exceptional and the question is why? and sure it is because Americans just wanted it more, however one has to wonder if all those prayers could have aided on that.

alien
Guest

I don’t think its petty at all.. i’m completely in awe of what the Founders accomplished. I consider it the crowning achievement of the Age of Enlightenment. Military historians don’t attribute the victory to intervention from God. Faith, I can see. Bullheaded tenacity, even better. The Brits weren’t unstoppable, especially when they fought against gun wielding opponents, and Parliament’s patience wasn’t infinite. Washington banked on this.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I know that your atheism is so solid that you do want to ignore many of the founders’ and fighters’ own words on this issue. Believe it or not I respect your philosophy in life. All I ask is that you respect those that are different.

“When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitles them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

— Declaration of Independence (Foundational reasons why the country needed to separate from Great Britain)

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality (overall or country wide = me) can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

‘Tis substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule indeed extends with more or less force to every species of free Government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric.”
—- George Washington Farewell Address

Even if some do believe in a Supreme Being it behooves the entire country to think they can survive without His Blessings. Once a Supreme Being is removed from the picture, humans and governments will be more than happy to take that space and thus the beginning of the end of freedoms. Not all people need or want the Blessings of a Bening Deity, however a country is not the worst for those (still in the majority) that wish, plead and accept the Blessings from a Bening Deity. It is best to live in a country where most people believe in a Bening Deity than in a country where most people do not. That is in essence what G. Washington was saying and so did others like Thomas Jefferson. IF anything Religion (good natured) had a place in the Age of Enlightment and it had utilitarian purposes besides the obvious spiritual overtones.

France went through its revolution without respect for a Benign Deity because monarchs and elites just happen to use Divine Providence as a reason for their rule. King George III did the same thing, but many founders and fighters did not decry or went ahead with the Revolution without a Deity. The differences between the French and the USA Revolutions are astounding as in execution (no pun intended) and its outcome. France had a bit of a blip, but then went on decline whereas the USA went up and up until we started to turn our back on benign religions in schools and in the public square….

The point being that tenacity and strength was not sufficient in the eyes of many especially someone like Washington. I am not going to give you a more in depth history lesson. You are a smart person. I know that deep inside you know that I am right, there is more to the story than just philosophies from Voltaire or Rousseau, some things worked and some others didn’t and something else needed to fill the gap. This is something that I did on my own and anyone else can do it too. However if I am willing to say that those that do not need blessings are in their rights to not want them, I could only HOPE that when a person says that they want it, someone like you doesn’t get on their faces in a defiant way telling them that essentially “we” don’t need it. It is not only petty, but arrogant in my opinion.

If you can live this life all on your own good for you. If you deny that your life was devoid of any blessings at any point okay fine that is your business. A man who wants to add G-d to his survival arsenal is no better than you, but you must certainly are no better than him and his desire to ask for blessings even upon people who do not want them shouldn’t necessarily be looked down upon.

Alien
Member

You keep calling me an atheist.

I am agnostic. The difference is non-trivial. It also gets me into trouble with Atheists. I don’t appreciate someone telling me with certainty that there’s No God. How would one actually know?

I appreciate your insight into history. You often elevate events I’ve forgotten or discounted or am simply ignorant of. I realize that many of the Founders were greatly motivated by their faith, but it also strikes me that they took pains to reduce visibility thereof within the Constitution itself, except in that it strives to protect the various faithful.

My original statement is scoped around the nation, not individuals. I have Christian friends and I’m not at all upset if they pray for me or mine. The only time i’ve quashed anything is when my daughter learned a bit too much of the threat of damnation from a neighbor.

I have to believe that we are on this great ship and course–America–without divine assistance. Otherwise I fear we are left wanting and waiting. Even Christians say God helps those who help themselves

Babydoll102187
Member

Just a thought I had after reading your post, ” Even Christians say God helps those who help themselves” Its true many Christians say this, sadly many believe it. But it isnt a passage in the Bible.
God helps those who ask for it-who humble themselves before him.
Psalm 40:1 I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
Jeremiah 33:3: Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
I know your agnostic, which is why i though maybe you might be interested in a diiferent view point on that phrase.

Alien
Member

That is interesting.. i’d have thought the phrase was based on something Biblical, so you learned me something 🙂 I still think its a healthy attitude. Self reliance is a conservative virtue I am attracted to and adhere to (I will always be stuck on kids that are in dire situations, though.. )

I’ve tried to read that Bible before. I have it on my Android Kindle app. The book length indicators of everything else in my library shriveled in shame after I downloaded it. I fear I am too lazy 🙂

perlcat
Member

The short answer is, don’t read all of what you downloaded. Not everyone reads the whole thing — although all Christians should. There is a lot of guilt and performance anxiety over reading the entire Bible — much like hunting regulations, relatively few people professing knowledge actually have that knowledge, and often listen to other people claiming knowledge with sad results.

My advice is to only read part of it. John, in the NIV gives you the heart and soul of Christianity in a more accessible translation, with relatively few “thees and thous”. If it is useful, then, by all means, read more. But in order to capture the essence of the social contract that was rewritten circa 32AD, John does the trick quite nicely.

I know there are plenty of people that love the language of the King James Version, but in reality, the Bible has been translated into so many languages, that translating it into 21st century vernacular is every bit as important and useful.

I know that as an agnostic, it may not be something that “converts” you to anything, but sociologically, the underpinning of Roman culture and how the entire mindset was changed by just what you can read in John may be interesting. Or it may not.

“M: Well I’ve always said, There’s nothing an agnostic can’t do if he really doesn’t know whether he believes in anything or not. “

KimmyQueen
Guest

I know agnostics and I haven’t found one (other than you it seems) that would do that a person. “We” don’t need blessings… that just seemed more atheistic in nature. An agnostic friend would have more than likely said “I appreciate the blessings they don’t hurt me none and hey… they could work, better cover all my bases.” However, if you believe yourself to be an agnostic… I don’t know you so I am going to take your word for it, so I apologize for the misnomer.

“I appreciate your insight into history. You often elevate events I’ve forgotten or discounted or am simply ignorant of. I realize that many of the Founders were greatly motivated by their faith, but it also strikes me that they took pains to reduce visibility thereof within the Constitution itself, except in that it strives to protect the various faithful.”

BECAUSE they knew that the Christian banner was enough to promote freedoms and liberties without the country being theocratic. They saw what man led theocracies did to the world… England, Rome, Islam… They didn’t want that here and neither would an even minded person. They knew just like I do, that when a small number of human beings start saying they speak for G-d and hence ALL life is to be mandated by THEIR knowledge alone there is a great danger there. That is one of the many reasons why I assume that Israel is not a theocracy. They tried it (eras ago) and it didnt work, it was disastrous. I am surprised that Islam has lasted this long, let’s see where it ends up, but we all know the fruits of that theocracy in the world today.

However just because they didn’t put Jesus foundational documents and so on (making a Christian Theocracy) it doesn’t mean that they were anti-religion or anti-Christianity. It just means that they knew what they were doing in creating a country that was free and welcoming of others. Jesus is not in foundational documents but G-d is. Just like “under G-d” in the Pledge of Allegiance it can mean whatever the person wants it to mean it is not exclusive, it is inclusive. Jesus would have been exclusive, however with that said, many did believe in Christ and used His teachings (alongside Greek, Rennaissance, Enlightenement, etc) to form the country, that is undeniable. Jesus Christ after all doesn’t need this country. He will create His Kingdom on the ENTIRE Planet when He is well and good ready. I believe if anything it would have been mightily arrogant for the Founders to seek to make this a Christian Theocratic country, knowing fully well that instead of one nation Jesus will have them all without the help of human beings.

“My original statement is scoped around the nation” I know the whole nation are not Christian most definetly not but the whole nation are not atheists , nor agnostic either. There are far more religious people than non in varying degrees. That is why I agree with RHG and I am not sure why his post was obscured. He said some and some is correct.

“I have to believe that we are on this great ship and course–America–without divine assistance.” Well just like you weren’t very happy about a neighbor telling yoru daughter about Hell, respect the fact that many will not agree with you on this score. You may believe it all you want, however there are SO many things that I can talk about the foundations of this country that should have never happened IN FAVOR of the USA. The only explanation that I come up with other than Americans just wanting it more is divine intervention. Since I have been a graceful receiver of divine intervention… being alive when I shouldn’t be, having enough when I shouldn’t have it I just happen to recognize it. Others wont… fine, but others will and that is fine too.

“Otherwise I fear we are left wanting and waiting.” There is that we again. You may speak for yourself and those that believe like you do. I personally and I am sure many can attest do not feel wanting and as for the waiting, time means nothing to an Eternal G-d. It took thousands of years for the Jews to get Israel back. Everything happens at the time it should.

“Even Christians say God helps those who help themselves.” Most people say that without necessarily being Christians, but I am not even sure what this is supposed to mean. If anything it means to me that G-d doesn’t necessarily want lazy people to lazy about and expect help. If anything that is a conservative stance. If a person gets moving and does it responsibly and in earnest, then they get help when it is needed. If anything that completely exemplifies the US Revolution to me.

Alien
Member

your last paragraph sums up my sentiments exactly. It is a conservative virtue which i admire, applied to the nation as a whole. It reflects the latin which has embedded itself in my mind for as long as I remember thinking about such things: deus absconditus. At the very least this is how I view God vis-a-vis the fate of nations, which may cast a rather Atheistic light on my statements (especially the quick mobile snark)

I don’t mean to diss your beliefs when I express mine. I just believe that everything about our fate–America’s–wholly rests on our shoulders (and this does in fact give me pause at times)

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Of course, I too am an agnostic, rather than an atheist. I don’t believe anybody knows for a fact where we all came from, or where we are all going. And I consider it a bit arrogant when somebody tries to tell me that they DO know for a fact. I won’t try to tell you that there is no God, or that the God you worship is the wrong one. I don’t know that. All I have is my own beliefs, some or all of which may be wrong.

Olivia
Member

The British Army was a professional unstoppable forced that subjugated countries in different continents and a bad of unprofessional, unprepared, poor and starving men beat them? Yes America IS exceptional and the question is why? and sure it is because Americans just wanted it more, however one has to wonder if all those prayers could have aided on that.
*****************************
As Napoleon once observed, “God is on the side of the strongest battalion.” And, in the case of the American Revolution, so was France.

And guess what? Both British and French citizens believe in the “exceptionalism” of their own countries, just as you believe in the exceptionalism of yours. Go figure, huh?

KimmyQueen
Guest

Ha! Got the third on that one!

KaylaKW
Member

I’m jealous! I got four! 🙁

KimmyQueen
Guest

You’ll get it next time!

hisham
Guest

“And guess what? Both British and French citizens believe in the “exceptionalism” of their own countries, just as you believe in the exceptionalism of yours. Go figure, huh?”

Oblivia, you say this as if you’re from another country and what goes on here is of no real concern of yours! That’s why people like you infuriate and alarm people like us. You live here too, S*** for brains, what happens here happenbs to all of us, you included. When and if the shit hits the fan, do you somehow think, because you profess to be a progressive, you’re going to be immune from the chaos that insues? Think again! You’re going to be the poster child, you and people like you, to people like us who, as you say, have an axe to grind. I imagine you protect your household with a telephone and the number 911 and if the Police are otherwise engaged, are you going to protect yourself with the firepoker? Have you ever heard the saying: “Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight!” ?

hisham
Guest

“And guess what? Both British and French citizens believe in the “exceptionalism” of their own countries, just as you believe in the exceptionalism of yours. Go figure, huh?”

Oblivia, you say this as if you’re from another country and what goes on here is of no real concern of yours! That’s why people like you infuriate and alarm people like us. You live here too, S*** for brains, what happens here happens to all of us, you included. When and if the shit hits the fan, do you somehow think, because you profess to be a progressive, you’re going to be immune from the chaos that insues? Think again! You’re going to be the poster child, you and people like you, to people like us who, as you say, have an axe to grind. I imagine you protect your household with a telephone and the number 911 and if the Police are otherwise engaged, are you going to protect yourself with the firepoker? Have you ever heard the saying: “Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight!” ?

whiskeyriver
Guest

Damn! I didn’t know I was going to start a theological discussion just by typing one word in an opinion piece! I am not a “religious” person in the sense some of you took it. I do not follow, nor care too, and kind of organized religion. I have no tolerance for hypocrites who say their “way” is the only way to whatever you want to call salvation.

The guns and guts part I have no problem with but I do think some higher power is watching over me. If not, there were times in my past I should not have lived through so my happy old ass could be here to irritate some with the use of one word. In the future if I want to make a reference to some “higher power”, I’ll use the word Oz instead.

perlcat
Member

You could use the Flying Spaghetti Monster — but then you would be a Pastafarian.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Hey, there have been a few tight spots in my life, too. Times that I probably should NOT have survived, but I did. But if there were some supreme being looking over me and rescuing my sorry butt at those times, he hasn’t made himself well known to me on many other occasions.

Many religious friends and acquaintances, after hearing of a few of my close calls, have commented that my life was spared for a reason, that God has a mission for me. So, instead of ignoring that, I pursue what I believe is my mission. To bring pleasure and a smile to the face of as many people as I can with my rocking horses. I do my best.

Not so silent
Member

I’m a frisbetarian, when you die you get tossed up on the roof. 🙂

nonkenyan
Member

Hopefully. We’ll see. As for London, it’s probably over half muslim or muslim sympathizer. You know, “inclusion”. Like what’s happening in southern Cal. A high school principal repeated the graduation commencement in a more understandable ‘hispanic’ dialect. Offend anyone? Not if you’re from LA, which is over half ‘hispanic’ in population. I didn’t get that figure form Rush, or Glenn Beck. I din’t get it from FOX. I think I heard it from a Mexican. I didn’t get the figure fom IHTM or Sarah Palin.That’s Los Angelos. And, that’s the one’s they can count. Really? How many gangs in LA? How many gang members? I’m sure they were counted in the census. If you suspect there are any illegal aliens in LA, consider the percentage of LA population they represent.

As for Europe, England in particular, they’ve been converting Christian churches into mosques and hookah bars for quite some time.(also called a shisha bar or den, especially in Britain and parts of Canada, or a hookah bar)

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I grew up in a suburb of Los Angeles, West Covina. When I went to West Covina High School, it was a pretty nice school. Not much crime or violence. Nice neighborhood. Now I look at Wickipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Covina_High_School
and see the stats. 8% white. 67% hispanic. That makes me feel sad for the entire neighborhood, not just my old school. And I guess the Spartans was too violent a name for them, they had to change it to bulldogs.

hisham
Guest

The Netherlands (Holland) are making a move towards sanity, let’s give them a cheer and an e-hug…they’re going to need it, they have a large, vociferous and hostile muslim population. When we try that here in the USA we’ll find out just how ‘moderate’ our indigenous muslim population is as well.

pierce
Guest

A day late and a dollar short, Netherlands!

Sidekick
Member

IMO, this policy reversal will spread across Europe. The financial collapse in Greece and the close-to-the-edge financial conditions of Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Portugal have necessitated severe austerity programs (spending cuts – Obama, you paying attention?). There seems to be little or at least less appetite anywhere in Europe to continue a culturally destructive practice in the face of tremendous fiscal problems. The EU is in survival mode and liberal utopian feel-good policies are very low on the priority list and there will likely be little willingness to spend more money on North Africans and other immigrant groups who come there with no useful education or skill sets and immediately plunder the welfare systems.

deepthinker
Member

Finally a European country get’s it. Now will the rest of them get it as well? Will people hear wake up and realize what and who they are dealing with?

Darwin Teague
Guest

You’ll never hear a similar story about England. They are too far gone, I’m afraid.

hisham
Guest

No, I think they’ll follow suit when they see the tide of dissatisfaction flowing over what used to be a great place to visit (ie., Europe)!

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Yeah, but,…..when do you expect America to begin down this road to rebuilding a great nation?

hisham
Guest

Aren’t we usually about 10 years behind the 8 ball….?

RockingHorseGuy
Member

That may be true, but I sincerely doubt that we’ll be doing anything like this in the next 10 years.

xtina
Guest

Wednesday, November 7, 2012.

Alien
Member

I agree..there’ll be riots in England before Muslims gain too much power

RockingHorseGuy
Member

We can only hope.

Alien
Member

My cousins assure me. I’d fly over myself if I had to

hisham
Guest

I’ve finally arrived! I’ve got my very own hater who follows me from post to post so they can hate on me. Little, insignificant, commie fleas, I got news for you, I use Deepwoods Off, you’ll soon wear out.

KimmyQueen
Guest

You’re nobody until someone hates on you… LOL

drb
Member

You’re in good company.

whiskeyriver
Guest

Atta boy!!

Progressive Hemrrhoid
Member
Progressive Hemrrhoid

I’m so happy to hear that at least one country is learning that Muslim’s are nothing more then uneducated savages. I think I’ll go have some bacon to celebrate.
Nothing like some nice processed pork products.

PsychoDad
Guest

Huzzah! And Denmark rebelled yesterday! Perhaps we are pulling back from the edge after all.