Want to save black babies’ lives? That makes you a racist.

by editor on June 24, 2011

Black is beautiful just turned ugly. A California organization has been accused of racism because it ran pro-life outdoor boards in black neighborhoods.

Of course it sounds insane. But Representative Barbara Lee is involved in the story, so it’s insane by definition.

black-and-beautiful

Racist. Racist. Racist. Racist. Racist. Racist. Racist. Racist. Just keep repeating it until it's meaningless.

CNB has the story of the aborted ad campaign:

…The Issues4Life Foundation and The Radiance Foundation have launched a pro-life billboard campaign with the goal of saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of black babies aborted in America each year.

“The impact of abortion in the black community is the Darfur of America,” Walter B. Hoye II, president of the Issues4Life Foundation, told Life Site News.

The signs in question contain the message “Black & Beautiful” and are going up in largely black communities in Oakland, Calif.

Statistics show that black women are three times more likely to have abortions as the general population. So it would seem to be a good idea to run the ads in black neighborhoods. But, no, attempting to save the lives of black babies is – you guessed it – racist.

… Planned Parenthood and California pro-choice groups are calling the ads racist. They say the “black & beautiful” slogan is too close to the “black is beautiful” cultural-pride campaign made popular in the 1960s.

Rep. Barbara Lee, D-Calif., has also spoken out against the billboards.

“I am deeply offended by the race-based billboards that are being displayed in my congressional district by the Radiance Foundation and Issues4life,” she said in a statement.

“These billboards stigmatize women of color and perpetuate myths about parenting skills and the types of women who seek and use abortion services,” Lee added.

You know the race mongers have truly jumped the shark when attempting to save the lives of black babies is called racism.

And in the case of Barbara Lee, it’s just too bad that retroactive abortion isn’t legal.

Source: CBN

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371 Comments on "Want to save black babies’ lives? That makes you a racist."

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apryasnqueen
Guest

How in the hell is SAVING a life RACEISM???? I personally am pro life and pro women’s rights, but how does THAT spill over into making me seem raceist??

Ira
Guest

Hell, just being white is racist.

Olivia
Member

Hell, just being white is racist.
*********************
Only when said white person repeats derogatory stereotypes about people of other races.

But I realize that it’s currently very trendy, among the far right, to claim victimhood. Especially when they’re guilty as charged. 😉

KimmyQueen
Guest

TURDS!!!!

KimmyQueen
Guest

No. Not for most thinking common sense people. This is what liberals want you think, but it is not the truth.

drb
Member

For someone who doesn’t take it personally you sure do react to it often enough.

KimmyQueen
Guest

She doesn’t realize that is part of the entertainment for us. She is playing right into our hands.

drb
Member

She falls for it time and again. It’s like we’re Lucy’s and she’s Charlie Brown.

MDLION
Member

Olivia:”What makes you think liberals are coercing black women into having abortions.”

I’ll never forget the post of an African-American woman I read on FreeRepublic a few years back: We ask for shopping centers and development opportunities in our communities. We get abortion clinics.

Our elites do the same thing at the international level. They tie aid to poor countries to those countries giving up their belief in family by agreeing to take on Western contraceptive and abortion practices.

Olivia
Member

I’ll never forget the post of an African-American woman I read on FreeRepublic a few years back: We ask for shopping centers and development opportunities in our communities. We get abortion clinics.
************************
Did you give her the standard pat right wing solution that, if there aren’t any opportunities in her community, she should just move?

jwilson07
Member

Yes Trolivia, as my parents moved from states and countries with few jobs or opportunities they came to California because they were jobs. Do you liberals expect us to just bring prosperity to every door with out people even bothering to look for it? Typical fuzzy thinking liberal ideas in action.

Olivia
Member

Yes Trolivia, as my parents moved from states and countries with few jobs or opportunities they came to California because they were jobs. Do you liberals expect us to just bring prosperity to every door with out people even bothering to look for it? Typical fuzzy thinking liberal ideas in action.

******************
Didn’t say that, or anything like it. But “MY PARENTS did it, so it’s impossible that anyone else could have any obstacles preventing them from doing the same thing” is about as narrow minded and logic free a notion as I’ve seen posted here today. 😀

Ever stop to think that perhaps your parents had opportunities and help that isn’t necessarily available to all Americans? Because, if you refuse even to consider that possibility, then you’re not using good sense. You’re using sentimentality and wishful thinking.

KimmyQueen
Guest

3rd!

jwilson07
Member

Trollivia, my father came from the dust bowl of Oklahoma. Okies were despised easily as much as black people in the 1930’s. I’m so tragically sorry he and my mother worked rather hard (key word, work instead of welfare) and made all those others who are third generation government hand outs look so bad. Please please explain to me where the fences and guard towers are located that restrict poor people to their side of the city?
Oh, since my parents cannot count let me use myself as an example. I left home with a high school education, just like anyone else who bothered to attend the free schools mandated by the government, and went to work. (Key word, work, not welfare, not baby machine free food stamps government hand outs, not selling drugs or robbery, work) I then went to work in gas station, followed by another gas station job, then fueling trucks for pac bell, then the California oilfields. Funny how any other person could have easily taken these low paying back breaking jobs, but I guess welfare is easier when you think about it. I started with ZERO money, just like everyone else. But i woke up and went work everyday and made something of myself.
Now, my point is this. With all the government rules and regulations and affirmative action laws, how can those on welfare possibly say” I can’t find no jobs”. I am sorry if they expect the good job right away, I never got that until years later. The problem is you liberals making excuses for those too lazy and drug addled to work.

drb
Member

Sometimes, you gotta make your own opportunities rather than wait for someone else to give you one.

Olivia
Member

Trollivia, my father came from the dust bowl of Oklahoma. Okies were despised easily as much as black people in the 1930′s. I’m so tragically sorry he and my mother worked rather hard (key word, work instead of welfare) and made all those others who are third generation government hand outs look so bad. Please please explain to me where the fences and guard towers are located that restrict poor people to their side of the city?
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No need for “control towers,” JWilson. That’s what street gangs are for.
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Oh, since my parents cannot count let me use myself as an example. I left home with a high school education, just like anyone else who bothered to attend the free schools mandated by the government, and went to work. (Key word, work, not welfare, not baby machine free food stamps government hand outs, not selling drugs or robbery, work) I then went to work in gas station, followed by another gas station job, then fueling trucks for pac bell, then the California oilfields.
********************
Gosh, I guess you didn’t realize that most of those gas station attendant jobs are gone…for quite a few years now. They’ve been replaced with irregular-hours, no-benefits, part-time jobs that don’t pay a living wage. What’s more, if a person lives in the middle of the city or out in the middle of nowhere, s/he’s got to have transportation to get to those jobs–preferably, transportation that doesn’t cost more than the job itself is worth.

Gone are the days when a person with a high school diploma could take a low level job, and work his way up to one with good pay and benefits. Most of those low level jobs have gone overseas, JWilson. Like many reactionaries, you’re sighing for the Good Old Days, that in many cases weren’t as rosy as depicted, and are in any case gone forever. It’s a different world out there today, and those who start with nothing are at a huge disadvantage. What’s more, a low level employee no longer has an “in” for a better job, because companies will often hire degreed personnel from the outside for those jobs.
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Funny how any other person could have easily taken these low paying back breaking jobs, but I guess welfare is easier when you think about it.
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Welfare doesn’t pay anything like a living wage, JWilson. If you think it’s easy to run a household purely on government benefits, why not try it for yourself sometime? And let’s not forget that TANF is not an open-ended program. A lot of far righters didn’t get that message 16 years ago. 😉
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I started with ZERO money, just like everyone else. But i woke up and went work everyday and made something of myself.
********************************
That’s just lovely, JWilson (I love the way these far righters constantly brag about themselves), but how can one go to work every day if there are no jobs?
********************************
Now, my point is this. With all the government rules and regulations and affirmative action laws, how can those on welfare possibly say” I can’t find no jobs”. I am sorry if they expect the good job right away, I never got that until years later. The problem is you liberals making excuses for those too lazy and drug addled to work.
*************************
I know plenty of “drug addled” far righters who claim to hold down jobs, JWilson. Addictive drugs (including alcohol) are no respecters of social class or income level. What’s more, most addicts aren’t going to be able to clean up on their own, without help from the outside. I know you don’t WANT to believe that (it sort of cramps your style, when you’re busily demanding that they just get over it), but it’s a fact. It’s also a fact that those who are in poor health don’t tend to be able to do a good job at work—–and it’s not at all uncommon for uninsured Americans to be in poor health, without even realizing it.

But thank you for doing one thing: validating my claim that some far righters here tend to dump on urban black Americans, rather than recognizing that poverty and dependence on government “handouts” are also a feature of many rural WHITE communities. (Oh, yes, you did, with your smarmy little remark about “affirmative action,” and your focus on the city rather than depressed rural areas.)

Poppajoe, I accept your apology. 😉

Tae
Member

Is it just me, or is Olivia the most racist person here?
She’s saying we shouldn’t suggest that people can better themselves, because they’re not her race, and suggesting that they can improve is racist.
I think Hitler held the same view didn’t he? The view that people who are not his people should just die. Because you can’t even suggest that they can improve, so just do it for them!
World religions on the other hand are all about telling people they have a chance if they follow a certain truth. She teaches another truth, that of despair. Maybe Olivia should start her own religion, then her followers can administer her cutting for her.
She’ll give them that choice.
http://www.demotivation.us/silly-emo-1247032.html

TheDarkEricDraven
Guest

I don’t think anyone has ever missed the point as much as just now. Do you read ANYTHING that disagrees with you, or do you really just let conservatives spoon feed you ideas?

Tae
Member

Dunno, but at least my spoon is clean. I’m not a conservative in my own country (綠黨). I’m just open minded enough to see things for how they are.

How about you try being open minded, ever.

So many people just look at the party lines and think the whole world rotates around them.

Do you ever stop and think maybe there might be something that isn’t right in your party? That maybe what your beloved media tries to push on you might be slightly wrong?

If your “gods” told you to kill babies and eat their spleens so you feel better, would you? Oh wait you do… Embryos, right. That’s real civilized. Let’s just deny that they’re actually babies, especially if they’re black.

Renew your Karma and abort yourself.

KimmyQueen
Guest

THIRD!!!! I should get a gold star.

drb
Member

here you go KQ

comment image

KimmyQueen
Guest

Thank you! You deserve one as well. Whack-a-trolling has become an olympic sport. LOL

drb
Member

Maybe one day we wll go pro.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Well, Olivia gets paid to post, why shouldn’t we get paid to whack?

drb
Member

The pay might not be great but job satisfaction sure is.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I agree!

Olivia
Member

THIRD!!!! I should get a gold star.

********************
Classic right wing underachievement mentality: “I should get a reward for voting thumbs-down on a post that I didn’t want to bother to read.”

(And they accuse welfare recipients of craving instant gratification…..) 😉

KimmyQueen
Guest

LOLOLOLOL
Typical left wing insanity and thin skinnedness, Obama would be proud of you. Freak!

drb
Member

lol, I got a third due to your third.

Olivia
Member

Me:The black child is massively aborted.
You: Oh, I bet you don’t care if black people end up in prison or on the street. And I bet you don’t give to charity.
*************************
Here’s a more honest version of the exchange:

You: The black child is massively aborted, and it’s all the fault of the liberals.
Me: What makes you think liberals are coercing black women into having abortions?

David Bishop
Member

Thank you for your translations. We conservatives and libertarians be too darn dumb to read! Appreciateness.

Olivia
Member

Thank you for your translations. We conservatives and libertarians be too darn dumb to read! Appreciateness.

**********************
Not necessarily too dumb to read—but sometimes too dishonest to read it correctly.

jwilson07
Member

Your coercing people to have abortions by keeping it LEGAL. Its a cowardly crime to make a cruel vicious act legal then saying” It’s their choice”. When will you take the next step like a good Nazi and say,” useless eaters are next on out list.” The innocent need protection and adoption, not murder and a pathetic liberal excuse.

MDLION
Member

Olivia, you are the queen of the diversionary attack and the non-sequitur.

Me:The black child is massively aborted.
You: Oh, I bet you don’t care if black people end up in prison or on the street. And I bet you don’t give to charity.

MDLION
Guest

What kind of person upon seeing the words “Life is precious. Babies are beautiful possibilities.” goes into attack mode?

David Bishop
Member

A person with no sense of morality, only moral relativism. A person with no sense of hope, just fear of losing. A person with no inner monologue, just blind acceptance of their situation. A person who does not observe, just follows the cultural evolution of their environment. A person who has no reason, and no logic. They are so twisted, they do not even know them themselves are an evil scourge.

Olivia
Member

A person with no sense of morality, only moral relativism. A person with no sense of hope, just fear of losing. A person with no inner monologue, just blind acceptance of their situation. A person who does not observe, just follows the cultural evolution of their environment. A person who has no reason, and no logic. They are so twisted, they do not even know them themselves are an evil scourge.

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You must be describing yourself, then, for I “attacked” no one. I asked two questions, which you both seem to be trying very hard to dodge.

KimmyQueen
Guest

A disgusting person…

jwilson07
Member

MDLION, those people who attack are called” liberals”, before in the past we called them”Nazis”. They worship death, follow life choices that actively kill themselves, and over 35 years have killed more babies then any tyrant of history. Trollivia needs to try and sound right because deep down she KNOWS the truth, and if she accepts her liberal evil ways to be wrong she will have to admit she was wrong all along. Liberals cannot ever be wrong, their self appointed superiority over us makes that impossible. Trollivie has two college degrees and a VERY important job as a janitor in a hospital, she is obviously able to decide that dead babies are a wonderful thing!

MDLION
Member

Olivia:”Funny….you don’t seem to care if they end up in prisons or on the streets.”

As usual, a non-sequitur for which you offer no proof. Wouldn’t a lot fewer of them end up in the prisons or on the streets if they had fathers in the home providing financial and emotional support? But I guess such a statement of common sense is a prejudiced, bigoted statement against “single-parent” families, right?

Olivia
Member

Olivia:”Funny….you don’t seem to care if they end up in prisons or on the streets.”

As usual, a non-sequitur for which you offer no proof.
*********************
It’s an observation, Lion. One doesn’t “prove” observations. One “proves” facts. Or, rather, one offers evidence to substantiate facts, since it’s impossible to “prove” much of anything in cyberspace.
*********************
Wouldn’t a lot fewer of them end up in the prisons or on the streets if they had fathers in the home providing financial and emotional support?
*********************
Irrelevant, Lion. We’re talking about YOUR allegation that liberals are somehow deliberately coercing black women into having abortions. Why are you ignoring my question, and trying to deflect attention on to absent fathers instead?

David Bishop
Member

So, it’s an opinion then Olivia. And like they says… Opinions and A$$holes.

MDLION
Member

During 2009, 40,798 abortions were performed on unborn black children in New York City. During the same year 27,405 black children were born in New York City.
(“MTV pulls pro-life ad because of partnership with Planned Parenthood”, June 10,2011; http://www.christiantelegraph.com)

Yes, more black children are typically aborted in New York City in a year than born. And Mayor Bloomberg’s interest in the issue of abortion mostly seems to be in going after crisis pregnancy centers. Usually, more black babies are also aborted in Washington, D.C. than born in a typical year. New York City, Washington, D.C. and especially Detroit are examples of what happens to cities when liberals reign without serious challenge.

“Life is precious. Babies are beautiful possibilities.” It’s true. The great crime against the black human being in modern America is abortion, not racism. Great strides have been made in eradicating racism in this country in past decades, while the aborting of the black child only seems to get worse. How many George Washington Carvers, Booker T. Washingtons and Michael Jordans end up in incinerators?

Olivia
Member

“Life is precious. Babies are beautiful possibilities.” It’s true. The great crime against the black human being in modern America is abortion, not racism. Great strides have been made in eradicating racism in this country in past decades, while the aborting of the black child only seems to get worse. How many George Washington Carvers, Booker T. Washingtons and Michael Jordans end up in incinerators?

***********************
Funny….you don’t seem to care if they end up in prisons or on the streets. 😉

I’m intrigued that you think liberals are coercing all these black women into getting abortions. Are you saying, then, that black women are too weak or ignorant to make their own decisions, and will trudge obediently off to abortion clinics just because they’re THERE?

You don’t have much faith in these women to manage their own lives, do you?

KimmyQueen
Guest

This is a truly bigoted post. I want everyone to take the time to read it and then thumb it down. The ASSumption that most of the babies that don’t get aborted will end up growing up as criminals anyway is DISGUSTING. You disgust me Olivia. You are talking out of your ass. The woman chould CHOSE to abort babies in order to prevent them from going to prison? Disgusting.

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

I will NOT read any of the belly-crawling snake’s posts. If something seriously changes regarding her extremist crap I’m sure it will be broadcast here for us all to see. At that point, I’ll reconsider.

David Bishop
Member

“If you build it, they will come!!!”

KimmyQueen
Guest

That is the sad part about it. Who knows the amount of people that could existed in the Black community to counteract the stupidity of the Sharptons of the world? I find it amazing that people in the community are not understanding that they are partaking indeed in their own extermination. In their own reduction of the improvement of their culture? It is so amazing to me that people are not realizing this and are not doing something about en masse.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Interview with a man whose biological Mother was raped by a black man, despite the violence, she chose life and gave birth and put the baby up for adoption. A white conservative christian pair adopted him alongside their children, he is highly educated, married father and highly successful. RADIANCE FOUNDATION: http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=5709&mpid=84

Life is precious. Babies are beautiful possibilities.

Olivia
Member

Interview with a man whose biological Mother was raped by a black man, despite the violence, she chose life and gave birth and put the baby up for adoption. A white conservative christian pair adopted him alongside their children, he is highly educated, married father and highly successful. RADIANCE FOUNDATION: http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=5709&mpid=84

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And that’s just fine, Kimmy. The biological mother CHOSE to bear him and put him up for adoption. I wholeheartedly support every woman’s right to CHOOSE. 😉

KimmyQueen
Guest

THIRD!!!! I CHOSE to vote whack a troll. I enjoy my freedom.

MDLION
Member

You can use dismissive buzzwords and phrases like stereotyping, prejudice, bigot, and right-winger all you want to prevent you from having to think in too much detail about the consequences of liberal ideology but I’m sticking with my thesis based on personal experience. It’s amazing the high percentage of our friends from “single-parent” homes who were always acting out in an effort to get the attention of a father who acted like he couldn’t care less. Two friends dead desperately trying to get the attention of an absent father. Oh well, add their bodies to the pile of 50 million aborted babies, liberal ideology must be defended at all costs.

MDLION
Guest

“bigoted slurs at Muslims” As Christians we get treated in a suspicious way by our media our entire lives. We’re portrayed in the most vile way by our entertainers. But we wonder what those who killed almost 3000 people on 9-11-01 are being taught in their mosques to make them obsessed with jihad and we’re bigots. Don’t accuse me of being for divorce, Olivia, I’m not. It’s you liberals who seem hellbent on destroying the family. A woman doesn’t need a man in the family, she can do it on her own the feminists said in the 70s. What a disaster! And so angry, hopeless, fatherless young men go out into society and become cold drug-dealing, murdering gang monsters. Just at the moment that error is figured out you liberals say: Here’s our next bad idea for the family, same-sex marriage. A boy or a girl without a father will miss his strength and will training. A boy or a girl without a mother will miss her warmth and nurturing. But liberals know better than nature I guess. Most of the friends of my brother, sister and I came from two parent homes. But looking back, it’s amazing how those who didn’t were always introducing or threatening to introduce drama into our lives. We didn’t know it at the time as kids, but they were always acting out to try to get the attention of an absent parent, usually a father. One of my brother’s best friends as a boy lived with his mother and sisters a few blocks over. His Dad lived in another state. He was stabbed to death in a bar fight at 16. A friend of ours just down the street had his parents breakup and divorce while we were little. He was killed in drug involvement in Chicago at 24.

Olivia
Member

“bigoted slurs at Muslims” As Christians we get treated in a suspicious way by our media our entire lives. We’re portrayed in the most vile way by our entertainers.
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Nonsense. It’s only religious zealots, hypocrites and hucksters that are criticized and lampooned in the media.
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But we wonder what those who killed almost 3000 people on 9-11-01 are being taught in their mosques to make them obsessed with jihad and we’re bigots.
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No, what makes one a bigot is attributing the actions of murderous zealots to an entire major world religion. That makes no more sense than it would to judge all Christians by the actions of Jim Jones and his People’s Temple followers.
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Don’t accuse me of being for divorce, Olivia, I’m not.
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I didn’t “accuse” you of being for divorce. I merely pointed out that it’s inconsistent of right winger to demand that abortion be made illegal on the grounds that Jesus doesn’t approve, yet have nothing to say on the issue of divorce, which Jesus was very outspoken about.
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It’s you liberals who seem hellbent on destroying the family. A woman doesn’t need a man in the family, she can do it on her own the feminists said in the 70s. What a disaster!
**************************
That’s a corruption of what feminists said, Lion. Feminism isn’t about getting rid of men—–it’s about having the same rights and opportunities as men. There are a great many happily married feminists (I’m one of them)—-but they’re married because they choose to be, not just out of economic necessity.

The rest of your post is just more bigoted slurs against people who grew up in single-parent homes. With one out of two marriages ending in divorce today, Lion, I think you need to start updating your prejudices a bit. You don’t do Jesus any favors by claiming to be His follower, when you keep spewing such ignorant stereotypes.

David Bishop
Member

Actually Olivia, you would be blind if you couldn’t admit that the feminist movement has corrupted itself. The heart of feminism isn’t equality, it’s superiority, and you got it! Now enjoy your prize of emasculated men and single mom-hood.

Olivia
Member

The heart of feminism isn’t equality, it’s superiority, and you got it!
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David, you’re in no way qualified to define the goal (or “heart”) of feminism.

Neither, by the way, is Rush Limbaugh, who (from what I can see) apparently feeds you most of your opinions about feminism.

David Bishop
Member

I have unfortunately never listened to Rush Limbaugh, as I have previously stated in a post. I do not have a radio in my truck. It was stolen, and therefore I listen to my Ipod with a single headphone in while I drive. But good try!!

I actually read to get most of my information.
My weekly (or bi-weekly) subscriptions are
National Review
Time

I spend a lot of my free time at work reading books. Some of my favorites:
The Road to Serfdom
The 5000-Year Leap
The Closing of The American Mind
God is Not Great
The Grand Design
Founding Brothers

I urge you to read some of them.

drb
Member

3….

Olivia
Member

There you go again Trolivia, comparing those who would put to death a convicted mad dog killer to those who happily kill completely innocent babies in the womb.
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I don’t know anyone who “happily” aborts fetuses, JWilson. Sounds like you’ve been letting that rabid antichoice BS scramble your brain again.

As for your wish to torture convicted murderers: I guess you’re not a Christian, then? Because Christians are taught that it’s God’s job, not theirs, to punish sinners. Our job is merely to keep them from being able to do any further damage to society.

jwilson07
Member

I am happily and positively NOT a christian, thank you. I still however can see a simple fact that killing babies, little innocent humans, is simply WRONG. No “choice”, no cute words about “rights” either. Just admit you support killing innocent babies in the most horrid manners possible, admit it for once to yourself and they perhaps you can rejoin the human race that supports innocent life.
As for convicted “murderers”? I would happily pull the switch/push the needle/ pull the trigger so they could never do that crime again to an innocent person.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Innocent does not equal guilty. Case closed. Words have meaning.

Olivia
Member

Innocent does not equal guilty.
*******************
Thank you for that extraordinarily deep and insightful observation.

perlcat
Member

Not so sure you actually find it so meaningful — either that, or you got hung up on the terms and lost track of the conversation.

You gotta slow down and read once in a while.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Just bringing up a point that you and other liberals seem to have missed, Olivia. Oh, and by the way, THIRDS!!

drb
Member

Yea, and she has still missed your point.

jwilson07
Member

There you go again Trolivia, comparing those who would put to death a convicted mad dog killer to those who happily kill completely innocent babies in the womb. You see, liberals know they are wrong on the abortion subject so they have to drag in anything they can to muddy the waters. So, lets review. Olivia fully supports killing innocent babies. End of that story. I fully support killing convicted murderers in as painful a way as possible. End of that story.

Olivia
Member

I don’t pick and choose among Jesus’ teachings
***********************
Why, sure, you do. You’re kicking up a big fuss about LEGALIZING abortion, even though Jesus never made any statement (political or otherwise) about it, yet totally ignoring some of His other teachings.
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but I think the pulling apart of infants limb by limb carries a special level of gravity many other issues don’t have.
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That does sound pretty bad. Of course, the tiny little detail that I’ve never done that, and never would, doesn’t seem to have occurred to you.
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I think conservatives have largely given up on the courts and so that’s why there’s not an effort re-establish the old divorce laws. Louisiana a few years ago tried to make counseling mandatory before a couple could divorce. They couldn’t even get this little attempt to preserve marriages in because the liberals scream and sue ad nauseum.
*************************************
Balderdash. Conservatives don’t push for making divorce illegal because they know it would be unpopular with their electorate. But look at some of their political and media heroes: three times divorced Rush Limbaugh, twice divorced Newt Gingrich, and even the once-divorced St. Ronnie.
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Poor Obama, he has to put up with a few Internet comments. Meanwhile, Bush, Palin, Bachmann and other conservatives get their guts ripped out by every form of media and entertainment there is.
**************************************
Oh, quit whimpering. If there’s anything more obnoxious than phony right wing self-righteousness, it’s their constant “why is everybody always pickin’ on us?” whining. If Palin and Bachmann are being treated sharply by the media, it’s their own fault. There are certain consequences to lying, playing one faction against another and exposing one’s ignorance in public, and no one ever guaranteed them that they’d be protected from those consequences. If they can’t handle the flak, they always have the option of (1) telling the truth, and (2) boning up on history. But apparently neither of them are interested in doing those things.

As for your claim that Obama has to put up with “a few internet comments,” come on, Lion! (Pun intended.) Obama and his wife are regularly raked over the coals on hundreds of right wing websites, and you know it. Most of the complaints are pretty stupid (“Michelle has a big butt.” “Obama holds his pinky wrong on the beer glass.” “Michelle went to Spain and I think she should have stayed home.” “Obama looks arrogant in this picture.”), most likely because they want to b*tch about him 24/7, but have very few legitimate issues to work with. 😀

*********************************

You talk about how you’re treated here, Olivia, but seem to be blind to how you dish it out pretty well yourself with your endless comments about right-wing liars, etc.
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Sorry, but that’s the natural consequence to spreading untruths. I won’t hesitate to call people on it when they try to pull that stuff around me. If that makes me unpopular here, I can live with that. I didn’t come her with the intention of making friends or admirers. 😉
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I think Do not judge is the most misunderstood modern Scripture. It’s like we can’t say anything is wrong anymore. No, I can’t judge someone’s subjective sinfulness or their eternal destiny but I don’t think saying things like abortion are grave evils is judgmental.
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Like most people, you make the mistake of skipping the rest of the quote, which puts it all into context:

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

In other words, it doesn’t just say “Do not judge.” It says, “Do not judge if you don’t want to be judged by the same standard that you have applied.”

Hence, if you want to call me a baby killer for supporting legal abortion, you’re holding yourself open to the charge of being called a killer yourself, if you support war or the death penalty. You’re also holding yourself open to the charge of being pro-divorce (even though Jesus stated very clearly that divorce is wrong) if you support keeping divorce legal.

MDLION
Guest

I don’t pick and choose among Jesus’ teachings but I think the pulling apart of infants limb by limb carries a special level of gravity many other issues don’t have.
I think conservatives have largely given up on the courts and so that’s why there’s not an effort re-establish the old divorce laws. Louisiana a few years ago tried to make counseling mandatory before a couple could divorce. They couldn’t even get this little attempt to preserve marriages in because the liberals scream and sue ad nauseum. Poor Obama, he has to put up with a few Internet comments. Meanwhile, Bush, Palin, Bachmann and other conservatives get their guts ripped out by every form of media and entertainment there is. You talk about how you’re treated here, Olivia, but seem to be blind to how you dish it out pretty well yourself with your endless comments about right-wing liars, etc. I think Do not judge is the most misunderstood modern Scripture. It’s like we can’t say anything is wrong anymore. No, I can’t judge someone’s subjective sinfulness or their eternal destiny but I don’t think saying things like abortion are grave evils is judgmental.

Olivia
Member

To me Christian means follower of Christ, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc…..
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That’s true. Interesting, though, how you’re picking and choosing among the teachings of Jesus to depict yourself as pious and me as headed for Hell.

First, there is no record of Jesus ever commenting on abortion, or whether it should be made legal. He wasn’t given to political commentary, although skeptics sometimes tried to trap Him into doing so.

Second, keeping abortion safe and legal for those who need it isn’t the same thing as “killing,” any more than supporting laws that keep cars safe to drive is the same thing as driving them. If a woman chooses to get an abortion, God is perfectly capable of judging her without your help, or Washington’s help. We don’t need Nanny Government to teach us about what Jesus wants. That’s what churches are for.

Third, I see plenty of evidence that sanctimonious right wingers pick and choose the Christian teachings that they want to follow. As I said, there’s no record of Jesus commenting on abortion. On the other hand, He very clearly condemned divorce; yet I don’t see far righters clamoring to have divorce made illegal. Why is that, MD? If you’re so eager to follow the teachings of Jesus, and think the best way is to make the government cram them down everyone’s throat, why aren’t you lobbying to have divorce made illegal at the federal level?

Third, if you’re truly committed to “doing the will of (your) Father in Heaven,” why do you tolerate so many of these posters bearing false witness? I’ve seen them repeat a lot of silly lies about me, which doesn’t signify much, but also about the president, his wife, and just about anyone in the news who doesn’t share their political views. I’ve also seen many right wing political figures bear ridiculous false witness against others, for example Sarah Palin accusing Obama of “pallin’ around with terrorists.” Why aren’t you condemning her for that sin?

Fourth, Jesus showed remarkable compassion toward those who were traditionally feared and despised in society: the poor, the mentally ill; prostitutes; tax collectors. I don’t see the far right doing that—-quite the opposite, in fact.

And, finally, truly devout Christians don’t go around using their religion as a political weapon. Jesus is there for anyone who chooses to follow Him: none of us follow Him perfectly, so it’s both inappropriate and un-Christian for you to make blanket condemnations of liberals, especially while turning a blind eye to the errors of those who share your political sentiments.

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” —-Gandhi

MDLION
Member

“Where are you getting the notion that all, and only, far righters are Christians?” To me Christian means follower of Christ. When the young man asked Jesus what he needed to do to inherit Eternal Life Jesus basically said:You know the commandments. You shall not kill. You shall not commit adultery. I know this makes the heads of some of the liberal Christians explode but I just have a hard time with someone who tells me he or she is a follower of Christ while he or she defends thousands of legal abortions every day. An early Christian document basically says: We don’t kill our children. We share our tables but not our wives. In other words, we don’t take on the corrupt doctrines of the world we live in. Doesn’t Paul basically say the same thing? Shall we partake of the cup of Christ and the cup of demons? What does Christ have to do with Belial? Jesus says, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in Heaven. Why do you call me Lord but not do what I command you? In other words:Talk is cheap. You must follow me in deed, not just word.

KimmyQueen
Guest

This is the reason why I do not understand Jew haters who claim to be Christians. It doesn’t correlate. A person that tells a woman: “This thing inside of you is just tissue that you can take out and it doesn’t have a soul” to me, is just the same as a person who states that “A Jew is a pig and Hitler didn’t do enough”. It is also the same as those that stated that “Blacks are monkeys” like so many (Fundamental) Muslims like to say. If anything pro-abortionists are “racists” against the unborn and many times just over SOMEONE ELSE’S unborn baby (like Sanger). There is nothing redeeming in voluntary abortion. The women who go around stating that aborting was the best thing they have done, I look at them as someone without a soul. I cannot believe that they would call themselves Christians when they do this.

Olivia
Member

This is the reason why I do not understand Jew haters who claim to be Christians. It doesn’t correlate. A person that tells a woman: “This thing inside of you is just tissue that you can take out and it doesn’t have a soul” to me, is just the same as a person who states that “A Jew is a pig and Hitler didn’t do enough”. It is also the same as those that stated that “Blacks are monkeys” like so many (Fundamental) Muslims like to say. If anything pro-abortionists are “racists” against the unborn and many times just over SOMEONE ELSE’S unborn baby (like Sanger). There is nothing redeeming in voluntary abortion. The women who go around stating that aborting was the best thing they have done, I look at them as someone without a soul. I cannot believe that they would call themselves Christians when they do this.
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I have no idea whether what you’re saying is true, Kimmy, because I’ve never in my life met a “pro abortionist.”

In any case, let me know when you find a family planning clinic that performs abortions only of Jewish fetuses, and does it forcibly, with or without consent of the woman. Until then, you’re just trying to dress up your antichoice stance as nobility, which it is not. It’s just the usual ploy to wrest control of women’s wombs, and get credit for being unselfish at the same time.

(P.S. It’s pretty illogical for you to rant on about “Jew haters” while you’re flinging bigoted slurs at Muslims. Your own prejudice is just the other side of the antisemitic coin.)

Olivia
Guest

“Why is it that the far right seems to worry about the safety of poor children only BEFORE they’re born and breathing on their own?” I get so tired of that liberal canard. A beautiful home was recently purchased here in Louisville which houses about a dozen pregnant women and allows them to stay for as long as they need AFTER the birth of their child. Everything they need is provided including job help and counseling. A new mothers center connected to a Catholic Church here in Louisville provides new mothers with everything they need. Furniture, clothing, diapers, wipes, formula, you name it they provide it. And that’s barely the tip of the iceberg here in Louisville. The network of crisis pregnancy centers, new mother centers, and help for the poor usually connected to Christian churches and people across the United States is INCREDIBLE! Did you hear that propaganda in the far left media, Olivia? Please provide proof. Liberals parrot the lie that conservatives abandon poor children after their births to rationalize away the guilt they experience for defending abortion.
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1) I’m referring to the callous attitudes I see expressed here toward the, shall we say, “post-born” whose mothers are recipients of social program benefits. Odd that so many of them pretend to be staunchly in favor of charity programs for these women and children, when they also argue that giving people “free stuff” destroys their initiative. 😉

2) Where are you getting the notion that all, and only, far righters are Christians? 😀

MDLION
Member

“Why is it that the far right seems to worry about the safety of poor children only BEFORE they’re born and breathing on their own?” I get so tired of that liberal canard. A beautiful home was recently purchased here in Louisville which houses about a dozen pregnant women and allows them to stay for as long as they need AFTER the birth of their child. Everything they need is provided including job help and counseling. A new mothers center connected to a Catholic Church here in Louisville provides new mothers with everything they need. Furniture, clothing, diapers, wipes, formula, you name it they provide it. And that’s barely the tip of the iceberg here in Louisville. The network of crisis pregnancy centers, new mother centers, and help for the poor usually connected to Christian churches and people across the United States is INCREDIBLE! Did you hear that propaganda in the far left media, Olivia? Please provide proof. Liberals parrot the lie that conservatives abandon poor children after their births to rationalize away the guilt they experience for defending abortion.
“By aborting the child’s chances end. It is selfish and evil to kill someone who had great potential.” Precisely. Great comment, KimmyQueen.

Olivia
Member

So what is the difference in killing my wife, and abortion? Should neither be punished or both?
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That’s like saying, “So what’s the difference between throwing acorns into a campfire, and setting the forest on fire?”

As I already stated, David, if you want to control someone’s uterus (and the contents therein), grow your own. No matter how you feel about sweet innocent little fetuses, they don’t have civil rights under U.S. law (or, as far as I know, under the laws of any other country).

But no one’s stopping you from attending all the antichoice rallies you please. Who knows? Maybe you’ll change someone’s mind and “save” a few fetuses…..provided you don’t violate THEIR right to walk into a family planning clinic without being harassed.

Olivia
Member

Maybe some one should take a closer look at how pregnant women conduct themselves during pregnacy. Pregnant women are told not to smoke, but women who refuse to quit, her unborn child has no say but it will suffer the consequences. A women behaves with total lack of responsiblity and goes to jail while pregnant. Her child is born early and later has life threatening health issues that require life long medication and monitoring. Not all women who have children are monsters, but these are two fine examples of why I believe the medical community has its hands tied. They absolutely advocate healthy behavor during pregnacy so the fetus will be healthy, but becasue it is just a fetus and has no legal rights they can only stand by and watch these women destroy their children’s futures before they are born.
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So you’re saying that you support fascist practices when it comes to pregnant women?

I’m getting the biggest kick at all you closet Nanny Government advocates here. You’re fairly capering with indignation at the idea of Michelle Obama encouraging school kids to eat sensibly and get regular exercise…..but, on the other hand, you’re perfectly willing to strip pregnant women of their civil liberties, using the excuse “BUT WE’RE SAVING INNOCENT BABIES!”

One of the prices you pay for living in a free society is that you don’t get to run other people’s lives for them. This means that sometimes they’re going to do things you disapprove of. But the alternative is fascism: the government dictating what you must do, what you must value, and how you must feel. And fascist practices have a way of crushing EVERYONE’S liberties—–not just those of a select group that nobody cares very much about.

David Bishop
Member

So what is the difference in killing my wife, and abortion? Should neither be punished or both?

MDLION
Member

“a fetus isn’t considered a human being in the eyes of the law” And a Jew was considered a “useless eater” in the eyes of Nazi law. And a black was once considered three-fifths a person under U.S. law. Some laws are utterly corrupt. Legal abortion is another one. Olivia, there’s no such thing as a “potential” human being. You either have human life or you don’t. That which isn’t already human will not at some undetermined point mysteriously morph into becoming human. That’s relativism. Twisting the truth to fulfill our desires. It’s human if I say it is, it’s not human if I say it’s not. Nine months before my birth a seed from my Dad fertilized an egg from my mother. The resulting one cell human being was me, not potentially me. AND YOU’RE A NURSE?! Though I don’t jot down in a notebook everything I have heard from former abortion clinic counselors or crisis pregnancy counselors, surely you’re not denying their common statement that some VERY SHALLOW women are concerned about a pregnancy’s effect on their figures. I’ll go with the court that gave the nurse a hefty settlement that her claims were not “pretty bogus”. She was experienced in delivering babies, just not killing them. I wonder how many nurses are experienced and qualified in skull-crushing abortion. Maybe the partial-birth abortion wasn’t “postponed” because some doctors and women get hysterical about the procedure needing TO BE PERFORMED THIS VERY SECOND OR SHE MIGHT DIE! I think they want to get the unspeakable evil over with as soon as possible because their consciences are bothering them. Again, she should have refused but she was basically told:YOU DO THIS OR YOU’RE FIRED!

perlcat
Member

…and not to forget, “And a black was once considered three-fifths a person under U.S. law.” being used as evidence of dehumanization of a race ignores the entire situation surrounding that law.

This ratio was used as a way of decreasing the influence of slave-holding states in the House of Representatives. It meant that the slave holding states would not have the ability to manipulate the holding of a non-voting slave population into excess political power.

Not counting them as a portion of full citizens was a bad idea — they were already slaves and therefore already in a dehumanizing condition and not granted the most basic of their unalienable rights — but the law’s intent was to remedy (somewhat) the perverse way of granting their “owners”* political power. Personally, I would have said that, given that political representation was entirely denied the slaves, that the number should have been zero. But, I suppose, a compromise had to be made.

However, I can understand why a democrat would resent that law and manipulate it into something it is not hundreds of years after the fact — after all, it was their political ox that got gored, and as the principal representative of the political party of slave owners on this list, Olivia probably still resents this effort by the Republicans at reducing their ability to use their slave ownership to inflate their House influence. I guess Reconstruction didn’t affect her as much as it ought.

* I can’t really in seriousness call one person an “owner” of another.

Olivia
Member

after all, it was their political ox that got gored, and as the principal representative of the political party of slave owners on this list, Olivia probably still resents this effort by the Republicans at reducing their ability to use their slave ownership to inflate their House influence.
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Whenever I see the term “probably” used in reference to a Democrat on this board, I know the person is getting ready to tell a malicious lie. Your post is no exception.

No matter how you try to defend the 3/5 law by arguing, “But it was to keep slaveholders’ influence down,” (i.e., “But the end justifies the means, don’t you see?”) the fact remains that it was grossly inequitable.

Now, with regard to your accusation that I belong to the “slaveholder’s” party: didn’t you hear? Slavery ended almost 150 years ago, and the Republican party stopped being interested in the plight of black Americans, preferring to court the votes of southern white racists, several decades ago. Here’s what the former GOP chairman, himself a black man, had to say on that issue:

“We have lost sight of the historic, integral link between the party and African-Americans. This party was co-founded by blacks, among them Frederick Douglass. The Republican Party had a hand in forming the NAACP, and yet we have mistreated that relationship. People don’t walk away from parties. Their parties walk away from them.

“For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton.”

Now you can either keep on (what’s that trendy buzzword you Republicans love to trot out whenever someone brings up the sensitive issue of racism?) “playing the race card” here, or you can admit that the GOP’s track record for embracing diversity has been none too stellar over the past 40 years. I understand they’re trying to do something about that now. But it would probably be smarter to get to work on that beam in their own eye, rather than obsessing over the mote in ours, don’t you think? 😉

Olivia
Member

“a fetus isn’t considered a human being in the eyes of the law” And a Jew was considered a “useless eater” in the eyes of Nazi law. And a black was once considered three-fifths a person under U.S. law. Some laws are utterly corrupt. Legal abortion is another one. Olivia, there’s no such thing as a “potential” human being. You either have human life or you don’t.
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As I’ve pointed out numerous times, endowing fetuses with civil rights and liberties would be a legal nightmare. For one thing, every woman who ever suffered a miscarriage would be liable for criminal investigation. For another, every pregnant woman who failed to follow doctor’s orders to the letter (for example, getting up to the bathroom when she’d been ordered on complete bed rest, or eating a Chinese dinner when she’d been ordered to reduce her sodium intake) could be subject to charges of neglect or endangerment of a “child.” For still another, it would leave a dandy loophole for abusive partners to control their women—-keep them barefoot and pregnant, and threaten to sue them for neglect or abuse if they step out of line.

Quite simply, it would reduce pregnant women to little more than impotent baby factories, subject to State control, and held personally accountable for any and all complications of pregnancy and/or delivery.
It would also pit fetus against host in legal battles.

By the way, no one is suggesting that we endow some fetuses with civil rights, and restrict those of others, so your “The Nazis did thus and such to Jews, and slave owners did thus and such to ‘blacks'” argument is irrelevant. You’re merely trying to sneak in some emotional manipulation in an argument about legalities.

Babydoll102187
Member

Maybe some one should take a closer look at how pregnant women conduct themselves during pregnacy. Pregnant women are told not to smoke, but women who refuse to quit, her unborn child has no say but it will suffer the consequences. A women behaves with total lack of responsiblity and goes to jail while pregnant. Her child is born early and later has life threatening health issues that require life long medication and monitoring. Not all women who have children are monsters, but these are two fine examples of why I believe the medical community has its hands tied. They absolutely advocate healthy behavor during pregnacy so the fetus will be healthy, but becasue it is just a fetus and has no legal rights they can only stand by and watch these women destroy their children’s futures before they are born.
Yes a ban on abortion would be a legal nighmare, but I think if one unborn child is protected from irresponsible parents, people will behave irresponsibly whether they have children or not, then it is well worth it. Its easy to say it could be a platform for abuse, but women have had that struggle for a very long time, before and after abortions became legal. There is help out there for women who WANT it. If a woman does not want to leave an abuser, or continues to return to him, nothing will make her stand up for herself. It is a weak arguement because it ignore the issue of abuse itself, and the cylce of abuse which is difficult to break. Turning women back into a baby factory to keep us bare foot and pregnant because it opens the doors to further abuse by men does not mitigate the problems with abuse.
But as far as investigating miscarriages, I dont know how better to answer that one than to say a very careful law would have to be drafted to ensure that actual abortions are not digused as miscarriage. The miscarriages in general have no need for investigations because our medical technology is advanced enough that I assume a professional can determine whether it was purposefull or not. Miscarriages are not purposeful and women who suffer them usually suffer lose that anyone can plainly see. Or a doctor to say the least.

Olivia
Member

Yes a ban on abortion would be a legal nighmare, but I think if one unborn child is protected from irresponsible parents, people will behave irresponsibly whether they have children or not, then it is well worth it. Its easy to say it could be a platform for abuse, but women have had that struggle for a very long time, before and after abortions became legal. There is help out there for women who WANT it. If a woman does not want to leave an abuser, or continues to return to him, nothing will make her stand up for herself.

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That’s a nice pat theory, but, as is usually the case with pat far right wing theories, it’s grossly oversimplified. Women who choose not to leave an abuser do so for many different reasons, only one of which is “refusal” to stand up for herself. Most abused women are ambivalent at best—-they don’t want to stay in a bad situation, but they lack the skills and self-confidence to get out of it. Especially if they don’t have a reliable support system, and the abuser is good at manipulating their feelings.

I’m also enjoying that sanctimonious attitude “If one unborn child is protected from irresponsible parents……” from people who angrily oppose social programs to ensure decent nutrition and health care for the woman, or (in the case of drug abusers) affordable treatment and counseling. Why is it that the far right seems to worry about the safety of poor children only BEFORE they’re born and breathing on their own?

Babydoll102187
Member

No, bad mothers are still bad mothers after the child is born, their selfish ways dont end miraclously. Some do, most are still just as screwed up as before and they carry it onto their little ones. I have a great empathy for those children born into such circumstances. I do believe that if a woman is held accountable for the life she is growing that will carry over to a more responsible mothering of that child. Some people need the government to step in and force them to be good parents. Its sad but true, not all mothers are good mothers. Not all mothers put their child before themselves.

And a woman who refuses to leave an abusive realtionship DOES SO BECAUSE SHE DOESNT WANT TO LEAVE! No amount of abuse, towards her or her children will make her leave if she does not realize that she deserves better, and there ARE plenty of resources and safe homes to protect them. THEY chose to go back, over and over again.

Olivia
Member

No, bad mothers are still bad mothers after the child is born, their selfish ways dont end miraclously. Some do, most are still just as screwed up as before and they carry it onto their little ones. I have a great empathy for those children born into such circumstances. I do believe that if a woman is held accountable for the life she is growing that will carry over to a more responsible mothering of that child. Some people need the government to step in and force them to be good parents. Its sad but true, not all mothers are good mothers. Not all mothers put their child before themselves.

And a woman who refuses to leave an abusive realtionship DOES SO BECAUSE SHE DOESNT WANT TO LEAVE! No amount of abuse, towards her or her children will make her leave if she does not realize that she deserves better, and there ARE plenty of resources and safe homes to protect them. THEY chose to go back, over and over again.
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Why is it that the far right is so addicted to stereotyping people (other than themselves)? Is it because stereotyping is easier than taking the trouble to identify causative factors in a problem?

Again, abused women are often ambivalent about leaving, which can paralyze them into inaction. Not all have cookie cutter feelings about leaving their abuser, but here are some comments I’ve heard from women struggling with this problem:

“But he IS a good provider, and no one can say he doesn’t love his children.”

“He shouldn’t have hit me, but I do have a bad habit of sassing him when he’s been drinking. I need to learn to control my mouth.”

“He’d never hit me before. And he was so sorry afterward, so sweet to me, and he said he couldn’t live without me. He never said that before. How can I walk away when he needs me so much?”

“But I have no place to go, and no friends. He didn’t like my friends, and made me give them up. How can I support myself and my kids, without anyone to help me? I can’t stay at the shelter forever.”

“I’m not a very smart person. I can’t do this by myself. I don’t want to go back to him, but it’s the only way I can survive.”

“But he only hits me when the kids aren’t around.”

“He promised he was going to quit drinking. I’m a good wife, and I trust him.”

“But everything was wonderful until the kids came. I think it can still be wonderful, if I can just make him understand how much his behavior hurts me.”

“He stood outside crying, calling up to me, begging me to let him in, for HOURS last night. What else could I do?”

As for your stereotype about “bad mothers”: No mother is perfect. Most of us could be better mothers if we had infinite patience and resources, but we don’t. I doubt there’s a mother on this board who can honestly say she’s never handled a parenting situation badly. For this reason, it makes more sense to look at reasons that “bad mothers” do a poor job of raising their kids. Some of those reasons are preventable. But one thing never improved anyone’s mothering skills: blame and contempt. The only person those actions serve is the person DOING the blaming and expressing the contempt.

KimmyQueen
Guest

However the child has a chance to make something out of their lives IN SPITE of the home life. By aborting the child’s chances end. It is selfish and evil to kill someone who had great potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vDQCv0yYaQ

I may not like Obama, but I do “applaud” (kind of) his accomplishments even though I may disagree on how he gained them. All the statistics were against him, however I do believe that his Mother did the right thing in giving birth to him.

Olivia
Guest

I may not like Obama, but I do “applaud” (kind of) his accomplishments even though I may disagree on how he gained them.
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You’re opposed to working hard, acing the LSAT, getting accepted into a top tier law school, and graduating magna cum laude? 😀

Olivia
Member

The first duty of the government is the protection of innocent human life. And so when government works to protect innocent human life it isn’t being a “Nanny Government”, it’s performing it’s first duty. The care of human life and not it’s destruction is the first duty of legitimate government according to Thomas Jefferson.
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As I’ve pointed out at least 20 times, fetuses are not considered “human life,” innocent or otherwise, under the law. They have only the potential to become human life.

One thing that always amuses me is the way the far right sticks up for sweet little innocent fetuses, but then appears to lose interest in them once they’re born, and their mothers require help from social programs to keep them fed and housed, and to ensure that their medical needs are met. Then, suddenly, they’re merely “kids” that their mothers “popped out” in order to dun the “gubmint” out of more money. Funny how that works, isn’t it?
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The nurse on O’Reilly was forced into an area she didn’t normally work because there supposedly weren’t any other nurses available.
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That sounds pretty bogus to me. Obstetrics is a specialty area, and I’ve never heard of any hospital “forcing” a nurse without appropriate training and experience to work there, especially assisting at a procedure like this one. In fact, nurses have a professional and ethical obligation to REFUSE to accept assignments they’re not qualified for. If there wasn’t a single qualified nurse available in that entire facility (and Christ Medical Center is not a tiny little hospital), why didn’t they simply postpone the procedure until they could get one?
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Admittedly, she should have said, “No, I won’t do it, fire me.” Most women aren’t casual about abortion, but some are. People who have pre-counseled such women say that some of them are worried about a pregnancy’s effect on their figures.
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That’s a common claim among antichoicers, but I don’t think most women are either that shallow or that stupid.

Of course, it’s in the antichoice movement’s best interest to convince their supporters that women ARE that shallow and stupid, because that would justify having Nanny Government intrude on their private reproductive business.

MDLION
Member

The first duty of the government is the protection of innocent human life. And so when government works to protect innocent human life it isn’t being a “Nanny Government”, it’s performing it’s first duty. The care of human life and not it’s destruction is the first duty of legitimate government according to Thomas Jefferson. The nurse on O’Reilly was forced into an area she didn’t normally work because there supposedly weren’t any other nurses available. Admittedly, she should have said, “No, I won’t do it, fire me.” Most women aren’t casual about abortion, but some are. People who have pre-counseled such women say that some of them are worried about a pregnancy’s effect on their figures.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Women who fear what a pregnancy might do to their figures have a valid concern. One that they should have thought of BEFORE getting themselves pregnant.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Exactly. I do believe it is a valid position to take. Pregnancies DO mess up female figures and it can take a lot of time and money to prevent certain things to happen and it can take time and money to repair things. The woman can be considered vain, but it is what it is because it is true. A woman should want the child more than she wants her sexiness and should afford in time and money and will to repair what needs to be repaired. I heard that having a child is worth all that. I look at my Mother’s scars (I was a 9 pounder) and I am like uhm… don’t know. Not right now in any case… Perhaps I am vain… ehhh…

However, that IS a valid concern BEFORE having irresponsible sex. Once the act is done, the woman who actually considers abortion to preserve her looks is vain AND evil.

Olivia
Member

The first duty of the government is the protection of innocent human life. And so when government works to protect innocent human life it isn’t being a “Nanny Government”, it’s performing it’s first duty.
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Except, as I’ve pointed out at least 20 times here, a fetus isn’t considered a human being in the eyes of the law, although it has the potential to become one.

It always amuses me that the far right is so anxious to protect “innocent human life” when it’s still a fetus, but not very interested in it once it’s born and its mother requires social program assistance to keep it properly fed and sheltered, and its medical needs seen to. Then all of a sudden it’s just a “kid” being “popped out” in order to dun more money out of the “gubmint.” Weird how that works, isn’t it?
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The care of human life and not it’s destruction is the first duty of legitimate government according to Thomas Jefferson. The nurse on O’Reilly was forced into an area she didn’t normally work because there supposedly weren’t any other nurses available.
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That sounds pretty bogus to me. I’ve never heard of a hospital “forcing” a nurse without OB experience to assist at an obstetrical procedure, nor can I imagine a physician being willing to accept an inexperienced and unqualified nurse to assist at such a procedure. Nurses have every right, in fact, a professional obligation, to refuse assignments that they’re not properly trained in. If there were no qualified nurses available, why wasn’t the procedure postponed until one could be found?
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Most women aren’t casual about abortion, but some are. People who have pre-counseled such women say that some of them are worried about a pregnancy’s effect on their figures.
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…..and you know this for a fact because you heard it where?

David Bishop
Member

Why don’t you go look at actual government census abortion statistics?

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0100.pdf

Few of them are actually the poor Latino woman with 9 kids.

The biggest culprits? White women with a household income over 50k and women with 1-2 previous abortions.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

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