Greg Simons, owner of the Reedy Creek restaurant in North Carolina, grew increasingly frustrated with customers who couldn’t speak English.
His solution? Simons put up a sign that said, “English only.” The result? Business is booming and so is media attention.
This post was last modified on May 25, 2011
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Nice to see that one place I visit hasn't changed while away. Still getting after it and I'm loving that~! Good day all ~!
I would actually argue that the only way she comes off as bigoted is from constantly using the phrases "far righter" and such, which I can understand. The people on this forum regularly attempting to bait her can be considered bigots in another way. Wikipedia(regardless of your stance on its use in fact accuracy) defines bigotry as thus: "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders and religion or spirituality. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views."
Now, while Olivia may in some way due to reply and posting style seem antagonistic, let us look at the meaty bit of my quote in the first sentence. "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs." Going by this definition, I would argue that a majority of Olivia's flamers(yes, you are, as your replies prompt her to answer back most of the time) are being bigots themselves. They are just going by the definition in sentence two of my quote: " The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders and religion or spirituality."
Wow. Even Olivia's supporters are boring.
That's because they all drink water from the same polluted well.
Oops, did I offend? Get over it!
Meh.
Is this the engineering company that your husband works for?
Surprising that the company would be using illegal labor.
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Where did you get the idea that his company uses illegal labor? They don't.
Doing a bit of bogus stereotyping again? What WOULD some of you far righters do if you didn't have your prejudices to cling to?
"What WOULD some of you far righters do if you didn’t have your prejudices to cling to?"
Name calling with a side order of bigotry. You Olivia are a bigot. You do not think you are because you think you love ALLLLLL people.
“What WOULD some of you far righters do if you didn’t have your prejudices to cling to?”
Name calling with a side order of bigotry. You Olivia are a bigot. You do not think you are because you think you love ALLLLLL people.
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I never said I think I love ALLLLLL people. As Atticus Finch observed, I do my best to love all people, but sometimes I fall far short.
Once again: I base my views of posters here on what they CHOOSE to say, not on what they "probably" do in their private lives. I've also ended up clearing up many, many misconceptions, based not on things I actually said, but on what people here wanted to believe I said.
Now, feel free to tell me what specific stereotype you feel that I falsely applied to you personally. I'll be glad to clarify.
Please explain why you figure far righters (whatever that is) are automatically prejudiced.That is what you state. Yet, nowhere does anyone claim to be a far righter. You are assuming that fact.
As for prejudiced and bigotry, no one can see the needle in their own eye.
You can call a person a bigot if they show bigotry (such as yourself) When you call a group of people bigots, and that group doesn't profess as a whole that it is a bigoted group, you then become a bigot.
Example...The statement,"I know of an ignorant flaming troll", is okay, because that would be YOU. If I call all posters stupid flaming trolls, that would be bigotry, because then that would be untrue.
Olivia, I know you're there, listen to me. We know you're a fraudulent troll with nothing better to do than irritate us with your pseudo intellectual horse fancy, but we're on to you and you ugly minion. We know you've been drinking that blue Kool Aid and taking the little blue pills! Stay on your meds and make sure to see your shrink at the earliest possible opportunity because you could be having a psychotic moment. These flare-ups can be dangerous if you ignore the warning signs and we've all been trying to warn you and you have been ignoring us. We're only trying to help you Olivia, but you refuse to allow us to. Whose fault will it be when you end up in a straight jacket and in a padded room? This is the way of all leberal flesh!
Olivia, I know you’re there, listen to me. We know you’re a fraudulent troll with nothing better to do than irritate us with your pseudo intellectual horse fancy, but we’re on to you and you ugly minion. We know you’ve been drinking that blue Kool Aid and taking the little blue pills! Stay on your meds and make sure to see your shrink at the earliest possible opportunity because you could be having a psychotic moment. These flare-ups can be dangerous if you ignore the warning signs and we’ve all been trying to warn you and you have been ignoring us. We’re only trying to help you Olivia, but you refuse to allow us to. Whose fault will it be when you end up in a straight jacket and in a padded room? This is the way of all leberal flesh!
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Translation: "I can't dispute a single point that you've made on this board, so I'll fling a bunch of childish insults instead. Have I won the argument yet?"
LOL!
Hey Olivia and all you other kneejerking bleeding hearts, tell me this: more than 50 years ago, the caustic slur "Ugly American" was coined to refer to those US citizens who would tour a foreign country, and would not only have no knowledge of the local language, but proudly boast their refusal to learn even such rudiments as "Bon jour" or "Grazie tanto." Often these people would knowingly sneer that the locals would speak English well enough if you spoke loudly enough and showed them your money.
Now, if Americans can justly be called "ugly" for refusing to learn a smidgen of a foreign language for a 2-week summer vacation, what epithet may we assign to someone who removes >permanently< to a foreign country, for the purpose of making it her home, and refuses just as obstinately to learn the language of the country?
Hey Olivia and all you other kneejerking bleeding hearts, tell me this: more than 50 years ago, the caustic slur “Ugly American” was coined to refer to those US citizens who would tour a foreign country, and would not only have no knowledge of the local language, but proudly boast their refusal to learn even such rudiments as “Bon jour” or “Grazie tanto.” Often these people would knowingly sneer that the locals would speak English well enough if you spoke loudly enough and showed them your money.
Now, if Americans can justly be called “ugly” for refusing to learn a smidgen of a foreign language for a 2-week summer vacation, what epithet may we assign to someone who removes >permanently< to a foreign country, for the purpose of making it her home, and refuses just as obstinately to learn the language of the country?
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Actually, the term "ugly American" (in this sense) refers to much more than insistence on speaking English. It's a stereotype (and, like most stereotypes, is often inaccurate and unjust) of perceived American arrogance abroad. Examples of the "ugly American" stereotype:
___dressing inappropriately (too casually or in bad taste), for example wearing shorts and T shirts with offensive slogans to "nice" restaurants or cathedrals
___behaving ungraciously in shops (this is probably due to different cultural perspectives---in Europe, for example, the customer is expected to behave as if s/he were a guest in someone's home)
___bragging about one's own country, in a way that suggests s/he finds the host country lacking in some way (Not hard to understand---just imagine a French person coming to the U.S., and boasting that the restaurants back home serve better food, and have much nicer ambiance. Wouldn't your impulse be to say, "Then why don't you go home, if you think it's so much better than the U.S.?")
___the assumption that the (paying) customer is always right. As you pointed out, it's an "ugly American" assumption that "the locals would speak English well enough if you spoke loudly enough and showed them your money." This is, in fact, absolutely untrue in many countries, as Oprah Winfrey found out when the elegant Parisian boutique Hermes refused to extend its hours just for her and her staff. She complained that they were being racist, when, in fact, anyone familiar with French culture could have told her that that's just the French way. In France, the quickest way to be shown the door (or pointedly ignored until you leave of your own volition) is to say, "If you want my money you'll do thus and such" to a business proprietor.
___the American tendency to make uncomplimentary remarks about merchandise within the shopkeeper's hearing. As I said earlier, in many countries customers are considered to be guests, and are therefore expected to behave graciously. "I'm sorry, but these tablecloths are ugly. Don't you have any in beige, in a less chintzy material?" would be seen as an unpardonably rude attitude.
___the assumption that foreign businesses will accept American dollars in lieu of the local currency.
___the expectation that hotel rooms and cars will all be oversized and air conditioned, just as they usually are in the U.S.
___the American tendency to talk loudly, thus distracting other diners, customers or bystanders
___the American tendency to take up a lot of space. (This one sounds weird, but it's true that Americans often tend to sprawl across chairs and sofas, and to swing their arms when they walk.
___the American tendency to be overweight, and to demand restaurant service at any hour. (In many other countries, restaurants serve lunch only between 12 and 2 pm, and then close until 7 pm, at which time they start serving dinner.)
___the American tendency to be picky about food. You won't see Europeans, for example, directing the chef to skip the onions, or to put ranch dressing instead of vinaigrette on the salad. European chefs are considered to be artists. And you wouldn't ask a professional artist to redo a painting in colors that match your sofa, for example, and expect him/her not to feel insulted.
___the American tendency to show displeasure, boredom or impatience. One memorable example of this was Nancy Kerrigan's irritation, caught on video, back during the 1992 winter Olympics, when the medal ceremony was held up. Among Americans, her attitude would have been regarded as perfectly understandable. But, among Europeans and Asians (who are taught to control their feelings in public), she came across as unnecessarily peevish.
As you will see, the above behaviors would make anyone look ugly and unpleasant. But, as you also know, most Americans don't display all or most of these behaviors abroad. That's the problem with stereotypes: they pigeonhole people into unflattering caricatures, and discourage any effort to get to know the person who's targeted by them.
Ok, I've had enough. I'm not going to read Olivia's hidden posts any more. It's just too boring. Have a nice life, Olivia. I suggest the rest of us do the same.
I have been saying that for a while now. We all need to get on board and just ignore the girl and let her talk to herself for a couple of days and then once she realizes we are done with her she will go back to the hell hole she came up from.
Personally I am going to start today and move on. It is difficult to have a conversation with someone like this. All the blame is on the restaurant owner but if the restaurant owner had been hispanic and he wouldn't serve people that didn't make the effort to speak Spanish she would be defending him. It is all crap.
While it might not convince her to go away, (since she doesn't seem too bright), the last few days of ignoring her have certainly helped me feel better overall.
The mental conditioning works!!
I think of her hidden posts like those children's books -- you know, the ones with little doors that you can open and see a picture. However, instead of a picture of a kitty, you get a faceful of BS.
"...That's the problem with stereotypes: they pigeonhole people into unflattering caricatures, and discourage any effort to get to know the person who's targeted by them."
You mean like using the term "right wing conservative" to try and disparage someone they know nothing about?
“…That’s the problem with stereotypes: they pigeonhole people into unflattering caricatures, and discourage any effort to get to know the person who’s targeted by them.”
You mean like using the term “right wing conservative” to try and disparage someone they know nothing about?
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Are you saying that you think the term "right wing conservative" is insulting? Or are you saying that you're not a right wing conservative? Or are you saying both?
Honey, don't you ever sleep?
Honey, don’t you ever sleep?
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I'm not your "honey," and of course I sleep. But my sleeping habits really aren't your business, unless I choose to discuss them with you. Suppose we keep this discussion focused on politics, okay?
Olivia honey, (can I call you "honey"?, I feel that I've known you for a long time)
Actually this conversation isn't focused on politics, it's focused on you, and it's gone on far to long.
oops..."too long".
I kind of get a charge out of the self-trolling Olivia.
One of the funnier parts of her quoting style is that in the upper right, in the recent conversations section, her unique quoting style is such that my posts appear a second time. Then people read them, and at first, they are all "I like what this Olivia character is saying." Then they get to the asterisks. Cognitive dissonance rears its ugly head. They start to think that she's either nuts or has multiple personalities.
Finally, after reading and thinking about the post, they realize that she's a cookie cutter lib apologist -- there is no lib policy that she can't get behind and support -- even if it was a 180 degree u-turn from what she was supposed to think 24 hours ago. Since a lot of the arguments she picks are clear non sequiturs, related only in a marginal way to the OP, she shows herself to be more of a zealot and ax-grinder than a debater. Given that she seems to seek my posts out, I can only say "tres stalkeriffico"!
After that, her posts only serve to annoy -- not to educate, inform, debate, or reason. Talk about counterproductive self-trolling! Like I said, I get a charge out of it. I suppose that means I need to get out and get some fresh air.
Finally, after reading and thinking about the post, they realize that she’s a cookie cutter lib apologist — there is no lib policy that she can’t get behind and support — even if it was a 180 degree u-turn from what she was supposed to think 24 hours ago.
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Hey, Perlcat? It's customary for liberals to hold liberal views; otherwise, we wouldn't BE liberals. Get it? :D
As for your accusation about 180 degree u-turns: on what issues have you seen me reverse my viewpoint? Can you name even one, without misrepresenting what I actually said here?
As for your coy accusation that I'm "stalking" you, I'm not. I'm merely responding to those who challenge my views. And, given that there are about two dozen challengers and only one of me, it stands to reason that I'm responding to the comment, not the individual. Fact is, I don't know you guys, so I can't always keep straight which one said what. (Especially when half a dozen are posting the exact same talking point, using similar buzzwords.)
If you don't want me to respond to your comments, there's a simple solution: stop responding to mine.
That is the point of a troll. I say that if we all make an effort to stop feeding the troll she will have to go away and go back to the anonymity of the liberal sites, because her posts there are a dime a dozen and she will go back to being a nobody. Overall IF she is getting paid to troll conservative sites and create controversy, I say it is time to cut off her meal ticket here.
You're right, KQ. No more troll snacks.
Guys, I made that decision a while back. Throwing her Scooby Snacks is like throwing meat to a starving lion...get too close to the cage and it'll make you it's next snack. However, lions do deserve to be fed, Olive Oyl does not!
Yep. Perlcat is right she is not only a troll but has stalkering ways. We must treat her like a stalker. You don't get close to the stalker you avoid the stalker. It might prove to be difficult, but it has to be done.
First, don't flatter yourself. I didn't call you MY honey.
A bit cranky this morning, are we?
LOL. You have more patience than I do.
First, don’t flatter yourself. I didn’t call you MY honey.
A bit cranky this morning, are we?
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No, just setting limits. ;)
But only when it applies to you?
Uhm... isn't being called honey far better than being called a bigot and a racist? Something Oil has done a lot.
Good point. This is what trolls and troll lovers don't seem to understand. When US citizens go elsewhere they are mocked and derided IF they make no effort and act like arrogant jack*ss*s (like trolls and troll lovers tend to act). I think it is apt because after all they are not right in their behavior. However, people who CHOSE to come here, to work here and make their lives here, SHOULD make the time and effort to immerse themselves in the language (and the culture) of the country they chose to live in. It is normal.
It is truly abnormal for people to come here and demand everyone else to conform to their language and their culture. It is also abnormal for the citizens of that country to not want immigrants to immerse themselves in their culture. It tells me that the person doesn't really have much love or appreciation for their country to begin with and if that is the case, perhaps it is best for them to leave and leave the country for those of us that appreciate it. Instead of hating on those that love this country and pretty much force people to read mindless and long ass diatribes, they should make a plan to move to a place in the world they would be more comfortable and take their lovers with them.
I don't think anyone expects immigrants to speak "perfect English" or to have an "American" accent, but it is normal to expect people to try the language and culture of the country and NOT to demand people to speak their language of origin. This is the point that I made with the whole Cinco de Mayo crap. Why is the grocery store so concerned to tell me is Cinco de Mayo? I don't care that there are Mexicans that live here, this is the USA honey I don't celebrate it and I shouldn't be expected to, just as Mexicans do not feel incline to celebrate US Independence Day IN Mexico.
Good point. This is what trolls and troll lovers don’t seem to understand. When US citizens go elsewhere they are mocked and derided IF they make no effort and act like arrogant jack*ss*s (like trolls and troll lovers tend to act). I think it is apt because after all they are not right in their behavior. However, people who CHOSE to come here, to work here and make their lives here, SHOULD make the time and effort to immerse themselves in the language (and the culture) of the country they chose to live in. It is normal.
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Except that that isn't what this discussion is about. It's about a restaurant owner who's chosen not to allow ANY communication other than English in his restaurant----and thereby earning the enthusiastic approval of many posters here.
Again, the fact that a foreigner (you have no way of knowing whether s/he's an immigrant or just a visitor, unless s/he chooses to tell you) doesn't speak English well enough to handle a restaurant visit without help doesn't automatically mean s/he's "refusing" to speak English.
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It is truly abnormal for people to come here and demand everyone else to conform to their language and their culture. It is also abnormal for the citizens of that country to not want immigrants to immerse themselves in their culture. It tells me that the person doesn’t really have much love or appreciation for their country to begin with and if that is the case, perhaps it is best for them to leave and leave the country for those of us that appreciate it.
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It isn't your place to dictate that I must be intolerant of foreigners, or else leave the U.S. Nor is intolerance of foreign languages necessarily a sign of "appreciation" of one's own country.
By the way, I don't "hate on" anyone. (I don't "hate" anyone, either.) I'd just like to see people show a little more tolerance toward foreign looking and sounding strangers, and not jump to all sorts of conclusions about their character, just because their command of English seems to be limited.
*yawn* You are boring.
People going into the restaurant with an attitude that the servers should speak Spanish (or any other language) is wrong.
People who make an effort to communicate with the server in the server's language in the server's country is appropriate.
If you cannot understand this simple fact I really have nothing else to say to you.
"Except that that isn’t what this discussion is about. It’s about a restaurant owner who’s chosen not to allow ANY communication other than English in his restaurant"
Not true, Livvy. Perhaps you need to go back and listen to the video again. The owner said that he recently served a large party, but only a couple of the customers spoke English so THEY ordered for the non-English speakers.
“Except that that isn’t what this discussion is about. It’s about a restaurant owner who’s chosen not to allow ANY communication other than English in his restaurant”
Not true, Livvy. Perhaps you need to go back and listen to the video again. The owner said that he recently served a large party, but only a couple of the customers spoke English so THEY ordered for the non-English speakers.
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Look at the sign he chose to post in the window. It doesn't say, "Sorry, we don't speak Spanish." It doesn't say "Foreign customers please bring an English translator." It says, "No speak English. No service. (American English)." (I have NO idea why he specified "American English" there----does that mean that English spoken with a British accent would be unacceptable, or what?) And the man admitted, in the interview, that he cursed in Spanish at those Hispanic customers.
No matter how you try to slice, dice and spin that, he made it clear: NO Spanish speaking customers are welcome in his restaurant. Period. And he chose to word the sign in phony broken English, suggesting that he's contemptuous of those who try to speak English, as well as those who don't.
"And the man admitted, in the interview, that he cursed in Spanish at those Hispanic customers."
Listen again, please and this time with your ears. The owner of the diner was sworn AT by the non-Enlgish speaking customers.
Okay, I'm done feeding you.
“And the man admitted, in the interview, that he cursed in Spanish at those Hispanic customers.”
Listen again, please and this time with your ears. The owner of the diner was sworn AT by the non-Enlgish speaking customers.
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I stand corrected----thank you. And I think he's lying through his teeth.
What am I basing that on? The fact that I've taken care of many, many patients who didn't speak English, and the fact that not one of them ever treated me rudely for not understanding Spanish-----not even in the rather stressful situation of a hospital emergency room. Not one. Quite the reverse, in fact-----most have been apologetic about their inability to understand me.
I'm also basing my opinion on the fact that, if this guy truly doesn't understand Spanish, it's easy to mistake one word for another, especially if he's looking for excuses to deny service to Spanish speaking customers.
Let's be logical here----if he honestly felt that he'd been sworn at, it seems more likely that he'd respond by denying service to customers using foul language, rather than simply denying service to all who don't speak "American English."
This is the problem with liberals. They don't listen, they don't read correctly and lack comprehension skills. Without the ability to listen and comprehend it is useless to have grown up debates with them.
As one female comedian (I can't remember who) said,
"I don't know what Cinco De Mayo is all about, but, if margaritas are half price, I'm all for it."
also a good time for Mexicans and Americans to join hands together in bashing the French
As one female comedian (I can’t remember who) said,
“I don’t know what Cinco De Mayo is all about, but, if margaritas are half price, I’m all for it.”
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I agree! I'd add to that, "Stay home and boycott all the foreign festivals you want-----I'm just telling you that you're going to miss out on some great parties."
“Stay home and boycott all the foreign festivals you want—–I’m just telling you that you’re going to miss out on some great parties"
Why would we boycott festivals?
Oh, I get it! Because we are conservatives ergo racist bigots, right?
Tsk tsk. Generalities again, Olivia?
“Stay home and boycott all the foreign festivals you want—–I’m just telling you that you’re going to miss out on some great parties”
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Why would we boycott festivals?
Oh, I get it! Because we are conservatives ergo racist bigots, right?
Tsk tsk. Generalities again, Olivia?
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No, it wasn't addressed to you. It was in response to Kimmy's statement: "Why is the grocery store so concerned to tell me is Cinco de Mayo? I don’t care that there are Mexicans that live here, this is the USA honey I don’t celebrate it and I shouldn’t be expected to, just as Mexicans do not feel incline to celebrate US Independence Day IN Mexico."
Not everything I say is about you, Barb, or even about all or most right wingers. I swear, you seem as eager to play victim as this restaurant owner who complains that his Mexican customers swore at him.
In this country, at least amongst those living here legally, Cinco de Mayo is just like St. Patrick's day. A lame excuse to get drunk. Since I don't drink, I don't get too excited about either of them.
That is probably the only good thing about that day. ;-)
This is how I feel about this: This is the USA, I don't care that English is not the official language for all purposes it is the official language. It is appropriate to learn and express oneself in the best English that one can muster. He doesn't have to learn Spanish to service people in the USA. That is ridiculous.
I FULLY expect English speaking people (or whatever) to learn enough Spanish when they go to latinamerica. It is appropriate to not expect to read English menus or have English speaking servers. If you are going to travel you need to learn as much as you can and TRY to express yourself in the language, be self deprecating and have a good humor about it, chances are VERY HIGH that someone will come to your rescue it happens to me all the time. Also a great way to make friends. It doesn't pay to be an arrogant jerk when you travel. Those that come into this country and want this or that, they need to check themselves and realize that they wouldn't want someone cursing at them like they did to this guy.
This is how I feel about this: This is the USA, I don’t care that English is not the official language for all purposes it is the official language. It is appropriate to learn and express oneself in the best English that one can muster. He doesn’t have to learn Spanish to service people in the USA. That is ridiculous.
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It isn't ridiculous if there are a lot of potential customers out there who like being able to speak Spanish to each other in public, and have money to spend at his restaurant. A smart businessman knows that, if you want to attract customers, you give them what they want. Apparently this man wants only English speaking customers, preferably those who have an issue with foreigners, and I guess that's his privilege. But it would hardly be "ridiculous" if he decided he wanted to go after the non-Anglophone market as well.
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I FULLY expect English speaking people (or whatever) to learn enough Spanish when they go to latinamerica. It is appropriate to not expect to read English menus or have English speaking servers. If you are going to travel you need to learn as much as you can and TRY to express yourself in the language, be self deprecating and have a good humor about it, chances are VERY HIGH that someone will come to your rescue it happens to me all the time. Also a great way to make friends. It doesn’t pay to be an arrogant jerk when you travel. Those that come into this country and want this or that, they need to check themselves and realize that they wouldn’t want someone cursing at them like they did to this guy.
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I agree with your comment about trying to speak in the other country's language when you travel abroad. I also agree that it just makes sense for immigrants to try hard to learn the language of their new country when they arrive here.
That said, there's a huge difference between mastering basic conversational English, and being able to converse fluently in it. What does this restaurant owner plan to do if he gets a customer who can sort of speak English, and tries very hard, but isn't very fluent yet?---for example, if he gives the waitress a confused look when she asks him, "Did you want coleslaw, cottage fries or succotash with that?" Does he ask these customers to leave? Does he show by his demeanor that he's insulted by their lack of fluency?
That's one big problem with the whole issue: exactly what constitutes "learning English"? Is it basic conversational skills, or is it near-native fluency? Because there's a huge difference between those two extremes, and it can take years of hard work to get from one to the other.
I would assume that being the bigoted, racist, hater that he obviously is, he would probably shoot dead anyone who doesn't have a perfect command of the language. I mean, c'mon.
I'm sorry Olivia, did you say something?
Found a gravatar for her:
http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
Outstanding - right on the money!
http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/pinko.htm
Funny, site! Did you see this one?
Yep. I'm a bit OCD (If I had a nickel for every time somebody told me that, they'd all be in neat rows, sorted by date, stacked by mint, all heads up & facing the same way), so I went through the entire site.
Hahaha holy hell you are right.. I started looking at others (like Android) and nearly lost my sh-t
This is a superior classification (though I don't necessarily agree with all the traits described there). She is way too engaged in the details of debate to be mere Troll. She is a partisan foe triggering flamewars. This is more entertaining all around, even if its irritating she gets downvotes by some who won't read a word.
Who says we're not reading it? I don't give thumbs down to anyone without at least reading enough to know where they're going. Which is why I often give a thumbs up to you, alien. You often say things that I agree with. I have yet to see Olivia say anything that I can even remotely agree with. Not only is she wrong, she's annoying in the process.
Sticking to your guns can be a positive -- but, like all good things, it can get carried too far -- sometimes I have to tell myself that there's more to life -- and I need to step outside and get some fresh air.
I don't know whether she'll grow from the exposure to other ideas, or find common ground, or just get tired of repeating herself. I'm pretty sure that even that thought would be inconceivable.
I have to admit that the site is more lively.
At what cost? At what cost to your IQ as one example?
Perlcat's formidable IQ is not in peril
aw shucks.
"That’s one big problem with the whole issue: exactly what constitutes “learning English”? Is it basic conversational skills, or is it near-native fluency? "
Oh for crying out loud, Olivia, where ANYWHERE has anyone even remotely suggested "near-native fluency"? Good grief, have you listened to newly minted high school graduates? It's hard to believe they are even speaking English at all!
My grandmother moved to Canada when she was in her 50s. She didn't know a word of English, but she was an independent spirit and learned what she had to so that she could live alone in her little house.
She learned "good morning" and "thank you" and "please." What she couldn't say in English, she would communicate by hand signals or by pointing, always with a smile and a great big "tanking you" (she had a cute accent).
When she needed extra help, she could call on a neighbor who had an English-speaking kid who could help her out, for example when she went to the doctor's office or needed help at the bank. SHE found someone to help her and she didn't expect anyone else to fall all over themselves to accommodate her.
She lived in a "foreign" country on her own for more than 35 years before she passed away and she loved this country with all her heart.
Is that too much to ask from our new immigrants?
“That’s one big problem with the whole issue: exactly what constitutes “learning English”? Is it basic conversational skills, or is it near-native fluency? ”
Oh for crying out loud, Olivia, where ANYWHERE has anyone even remotely suggested “near-native fluency”? Good grief, have you listened to newly minted high school graduates? It’s hard to believe they are even speaking English at all!
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I was the one who brought up near native fluency, since (as I stated several separate and distinct times) basic conversational English is usually woefully inadequate. One can be skilled at basic conversation, but still sound hopelessly inept at English during a business transaction or ordinary phone call.
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My grandmother moved to Canada when she was in her 50s. She didn’t know a word of English, but she was an independent spirit and learned what she had to so that she could live alone in her little house.
She learned “good morning” and “thank you” and “please.” What she couldn’t say in English, she would communicate by hand signals or by pointing, always with a smile and a great big “tanking you” (she had a cute accent).
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Cute accent or otherwise, your grandmother would probably have been accused of "refusing to speak English," and denied admission to the South Carolina guy's restaurant-----which is, after all, what this discussion is all about.
I see quite a few patients in the ER who don't speak English. Most of them do say "please" and "thank you," and rely on hand signals, just as your grandmother did. Most, too, try to bring along a friend or family member (often a child, like your grandmother's young neighbor) to help translate. Yet they're still accused (by certain of my coworkers, not by me) of "refusing to speak English." So, in effect, your grandmother's situation served only to strengthen the point I was making.
"I see quite a few patients in the ER who don’t speak English"
Do you spend a lot of time in the waiting room, or are you just trying to impress me?
LOL!
“I see quite a few patients in the ER who don’t speak English”
Do you spend a lot of time in the waiting room, or are you just trying to impress me?
LOL!
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Neither. I work in an ER.
She probably has to work with all of the unconscious and non-English speaking patients -- anyone who speaks English is clearly
1) a racist,
2) got their symptoms from Rush,
3) don't know what they are talking about, being a mere patient and therefore having no acceptable experience with health care.
(Unless they show her their DNC voter registration, though.)
If I were her boss, I'd probably assign her to the morgue, what with the (ever so slightly) reduced chance of arguments. She'd be there, quoting toe tag information above a line of asterisks and some hackneyed liberal phrase at the occupants all day long.
She probably has to work with all of the unconscious and non-English speaking patients — anyone who speaks English is clearly
1) a racist,
2) got their symptoms from Rush,
3) don’t know what they are talking about, being a mere patient and therefore having no acceptable experience with health care.
(Unless they show her their DNC voter registration, though.)
If I were her boss, I’d probably assign her to the morgue, what with the (ever so slightly) reduced chance of arguments. She’d be there, quoting toe tag information above a line of asterisks and some hackneyed liberal phrase at the occupants all day long.
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Since you've never met me, much less seen me in action at work, you're merely flinging a lot of blind insults at me, and hoping some might stick.
But thank you, once again, for illustrating how quickly some right wingers will resort to stereotyping and insults, to avoid actually debating the issue at hand.
"Since you’ve never met me, much less seen me in action at work, you’re merely flinging a lot of blind insults at me, and hoping some might stick"
Gee, sound familiar?
Debate? ROFLMAO. There is no debate with you.
In your perspective, we're wrong, you're right. The only way to "win" a debate with you is to capitulate and agree with you. Which I can't, and I won't.
Therefore, I am having a lot more fun yanking your chain than you are. I've stolen time out of your life, done nasty things to your blood pressure, and amused myself. This was and is all voluntary on your part, so I don't feel bad about that at all.
If you were interested in a debate, you'd be interested in presenting your arguments in what others would consider an intelligible format. Given that there have been numerous complaints about your style in responding, and given that you're the *only* person that responds in this manner, a reasonable person would think that if you were interested in persuading anyone to come to any sort of agreement, that you'd take one of the many hints.
However, you're tone-deaf. As long as I see the first couple of sentences that I wrote in the top of your post without a way of marking them as mine, I know that Olivia has learned nothing today, and remains as stubborn today as she was yesterday, and in all likelihood tomorrow, and on and on.. Therefore, the content of your message is unnecessary.
When people can tell what you're going to say *before* you say it, then your words are superfluous.
Say something new for a change. The toe tag bit was apropos, given that you are so deaf to your readers they may as well be in cold storage for all your interaction will benefit you. You are not talking or discussing *with* anyone here. You are talking *at* them. You've made yourself into a stereotype, suitable for mockery.
Your ideas lose credence because *you* propose them.
Well, to Olivia's real point, how would the restaurant owner have treated your mother? (who does sound adorable btw)
From knowing people like Barb's grandmother, I'd have to say that his attitude on the whole subject would change. They melt your heart, they really do.
The problem is one of feedback -- as long as people on both sides get all of the negative feedback from a nasty problem, things continue to escalate. A decent person, clearly making an effort is a game-changer, and he'd feel like a heel for turning her out.
I can't say I do not sympathize with the restaurant owner -- but that is something I would never do. It panders to the darkest elements of human nature, and so, while he may have perfectly good reasons to feel frustrated with the current decline, the kind of clientele he will get from this will not be something to be proud of.
Perhaps, but with that said he never said that he won't serve those that MAKE AN EFFORT to speak English, it is my understanding that he has a problem with those that do not make an effort. It is an assumption that he is the type of guy that wouldn't appreciate those who make an effort, I think that assumption is incorrect. We may have to find out if that is the case, but I dont think we can assume that.
Perhaps, but with that said he never said that he won’t serve those that MAKE AN EFFORT to speak English, it is my understanding that he has a problem with those that do not make an effort.
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How does one "make an effort," if one truly doesn't have the slightest idea what the other person just said?
And how does one tell the difference between a total stranger who really does try but is stumped at the moment, and one who doesn't try, and is stumped at the moment? Even someone who's reasonably skilled at conversational English can get thoroughly confused, if the waiter mumbles, uses figures of speech, or asks a question using unfamiliar vocabulary.
Let me remind you that the sign didn't say, "Please try to speak English." It said, "No speak English. No service."
To anyone who wasn't falling over backwards trying to make excuses for the guy, his meaning is crystal clear. And it's neither conciliatory nor accommodating.
You have no listening nor reading comprehension skills and you want to find a negative where there isn't ignoring the negatives where there are. You are lame and boring and I am glad that more people see it. I hope that in a few days everyone will get onboard and start ignoring you fully and you can slink back in the anonymity that you clearly wanted to escape at the liberal sites where your comments are welcomed but uninspired.
I'm right there with you Kimmy. I see Olivia, I just click thumb down and move on. The rest of us should do the same. Many liberals are at least entertaining to read, sometimes downright comical. But Olivia is just plain boring and condescending. I refuse to read it.
You speak the truth, if she was at least able to entertain me, I would tolerate her and read her diatribes for crap and giggles. However, her lack of entertainment makes reading her stuff not worthwhile, so like you, I just thumbs down and move on. There is also a practical reason for thumbing down her posts, it seems that 95% of them are extremely long and it makes this area impossible to navigate.
You are the most boring poster in this site. Are you going for most boring poster on the internet? I think you would be a contender.
You are the most boring poster in this site. Are you going for most boring poster on the internet? I think you would be a contender.
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And, again, the translation would be: "I can't dispute a single point you're making, so I'll fling some childish insults and hope no one notices that I didn't address your post at all."
If you're so "bored" by opposing viewpoints, why not discuss something a little less controversial? Maybe, say, budget decorating tips or plastic canvas embroidery? ;)
I *hate* plastic canvas embroidery. It has been the cause of numerous fistfights. Are you a clear plastic canvasser, a white plastic canvasser, or a milk plastic canvasser, or one of those wretched abominations that uses primary colored canvas? Do you use virgin plastic, or recycled? Speak! Take a side!
I *hate* plastic canvas embroidery. It has been the cause of numerous fistfights. Are you a clear plastic canvasser, a white plastic canvasser, or a milk plastic canvasser, or one of those wretched abominations that uses primary colored canvas? Do you use virgin plastic, or recycled? Speak! Take a side!
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NO self-respecting liberal would use virgin plastic. For one thing, it would be a slap in the face to global warming. For another, we're all immoral, and therefore consider "virgin" to be a dirty word. That's why we spend so much of our time urging kids to lose their virginity (preferably in homosexual encounters with drug-addled welfare recipients). ;)
LOL hilarious you two :)
[ insert clip of Maximus Meridius here: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??? ]
oooookay.
That was worth a thumbs up.
That was worth a thumbs up.
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It figures. You do realize, don't you, that you just insulted me in Nigerian? ;)
I'm going to stick to insults I know or have had personal experience with.
The translation is that you are boring. Plain and simple. You are not worthy of time and effort to get into elonganted debates. You are boring and your diatribes are all canned and obvious. There is nothing stimulating about you. You are given yourself a lot of importance that you do not deserve...
Oh my goodness! That is such a liberal trait. You must be happy to have something in common with your lord and savior Obamie.
Thank you for that comment KimmyQueen. It was perfect.
YW! I am here to please.
you know they have No problems Pronouncing , Budweiser , Food Stamps , WelFare , Hooker , Pay Day , Big Mac and NO HABLE` ENGLISH
So very true...Tracycolorado~!
you know they have No problems Pronouncing , Budweiser , Food Stamps , WelFare , Hooker , Pay Day , Big Mac and NO HABLE` ENGLISH
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THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry.
THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The above message brought to you by:
Trolls Who Cannot Keep More Then One Thought In Their Brain
THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The above message brought to you by:
Trolls Who Cannot Keep More Then One Thought In Their Brain
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Trust a far right winger to regard any challenge to bigoted stereotypes as "troll" activity. :D
"This message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council for the Presevation of Small Minded Bigotry."
Bigoted stereotypes seems to be your forte.
Olivia,
You have now shown yourself as a BIGOTED against right wingers. You know nothing about me. You are generalizing what a right winger is, and what they believe in, just as you generalize what a Tea Party member believes or doesn't believe in.
You have now shown yourself as a BIGOTED against right wingers. You know nothing about me. You are generalizing what a right winger is, and what they believe in, just as you generalize what a Tea Party member believes or doesn’t believe in.
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Not true. I'm basing my opinion of you on what you CHOOSE to say in this public forum.
In short, you have a choice of how you wish to come across to me. And, so far, you don't seem to be very interested in appearing logical or tolerant.
"Bigots, on the other hand, repeat nasty and dishonest generalizations about demographic groups"
That is what you have done to me and some others. At what point doesn't that make you a bigot
What did I say that made me a right winger? What exactly is a right winger to you? Why do you dislike them?
That is what you have done to me and some others. At what point doesn’t that make you a bigot
What did I say that made me a right winger? What exactly is a right winger to you? Why do you dislike them?
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This whole discussion is one that I've had many times with other right wingers, since it's a hot-button political issue on the right. It's also a common right wing ploy (as we've seen many times right here on this board) to try to drag the discussion down to a personal level, as you're doing.
No, I don't "dislike right wingers." I like some and dislike others, just as I like some liberals and dislike others. I have no opinion of you personally, since I don't know you. My opinions here are based on what I observe, and on what others choose to say on this topic.
It would make me a bigot if I started making judgments about your character, based on blind assumptions of how you "probably" behave in real life, in unrelated situations. Bigotry is about stereotypes and jumping to conclusions, not about taking exception to another person's expressed opinion.
So if bigotry is about stereotypes and jumping to conclusions (your statement not mine), then how did you come up with this and not consider it as bigoted?
THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry.
So if bigotry is about stereotypes and jumping to conclusions (your statement not mine), then how did you come up with this and not consider it as bigoted?
THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry.
***********************
Because I was responding to someone who made a blatantly bigoted statement.
"THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry."
I'm not sure why you are so upset, Olivia. Yes, if you want to take your business elsewhere, feel free to do just that.
Why is it bigoted to ask immigrants to learn English?
THis message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Small Minded Bigotry.”
I’m not sure why you are so upset, Olivia. Yes, if you want to take your business elsewhere, feel free to do just that.
Why is it bigoted to ask immigrants to learn English?
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Where did you get the idea that I was "upset"?
And where did you get the idea that the poster I was responding to had merely "ask(ed) immigrants to learn English"? I copied and pasted his comment into my post. Did you not bother to read it before challenging me on my answer?
Fine, so you aren't "upset", just merely combative. Better?
I think immigrants to America should learn to speak English. Does that make me a bigot?
Fine, so you aren’t “upset”, just merely combative. Better?
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No, I'm not "combating" anyone. THis is a political forum, is it not? And political forums are places to discuss political issues, are they not? That's what I'm doing.
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I think immigrants to America should learn to speak English. Does that make me a bigot?
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No. And, if you will actually read my posts rather than just reacting to them, you'll see that I never made such a statement. I, too, think immigrants to the United States should learn to speak English----but I also recognize that there are many reasons that people fail to master English quickly, only one of which is stubborn "refusal."
"And, if you will actually read my posts rather than just reacting to them, you’ll see that I never made such a statement. I, too, think immigrants to the United States should learn to speak English..."
So, giving you every benefit of the doubt, I reread your posts, looking for something not to react to. Not much luck there but I am, if nothing else, an optimist.
Do you realize that the tone of your posts was so argumentative that you never, nowhere, actually stated that you felt that immigrants to the United States should learn to speak English? You behaved like you were spoiling for a fight, and you've been treated that way in return.
We aren't idiots. We know it takes times to learn a new language. We're just saying that if you come to a foreign country you should be willing to learn the language and not expect or demand that your hosts learn YOUR language. We don't expect perfection, but an honest effort would be nice.
“And, if you will actually read my posts rather than just reacting to them, you’ll see that I never made such a statement. I, too, think immigrants to the United States should learn to speak English…”
So, giving you every benefit of the doubt, I reread your posts, looking for something not to react to. Not much luck there but I am, if nothing else, an optimist.
Do you realize that the tone of your posts was so argumentative that you never, nowhere, actually stated that you felt that immigrants to the United States should learn to speak English?
********************
Actually, I did---twice. Perhaps you missed them, because my unpopular opinions usually end up being "hidden" shortly after they're posted. But, just to oblige you, I'll state once again, clearly and without qualifications, that I think immigrants to the United States should learn to speak English.
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You behaved like you were spoiling for a fight, and you’ve been treated that way in return.
*********************
I guess you missed the truculent tone of the story itself, and that of those who cheered this South Carolina bozo for refusing to let his customers speak languages other than English.
This happens to be an issue that I feel strongly about, so I didn't hesitate to disagree with them. Again, I'd like to remind you that this is a public forum, and one that chooses to deal with controversial and volatile issues. So why would you find it inappropriate for me to express MY views here?
****************************
We aren’t idiots. We know it takes times to learn a new language. We’re just saying that if you come to a foreign country you should be willing to learn the language and not expect or demand that your hosts learn YOUR language. We don’t expect perfection, but an honest effort would be nice.
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You're saying "we," as if everyone here thinks in unison, and is qualified to explain everyone else's thoughts. But that's not what I'm seeing. In fact, s I said earlier (I assume that post got "hidden," too), I see nothing unreasonable about your attitude here. But that's not the issue being discussed here. It's about a restaurant owner who has decided not to allow his customers to speak any language other than English, a decision that was mightily cheered and applauded by other posters here.
My point was simply that most are making unfair assumptions. Your attitude suggests that you'd be willing to make allowances for those who are still struggling with English, but willing to try. Most other posters made no such allowances----they merely assumed that anyone who's speaking Spanish in public, or who needs help with translation, is just "refusing to learn English." And at least one of those posters referred to these non-Anglophones as "illegals."
In short, there's a lot of blaming and stereotyping (and a few bogus accusations) going on here. And, like it or not, when I perceive injustice or untruths, I tend to speak up. Do you think it's wrong for me to do that, and, if so, why?
"Upset" isn't the right word for Olivia nor is "combative". How do you characterize someone with eight full years of college?
"Supercilious" comes to mind but "schmuck" is better.
“Upset” isn’t the right word for Olivia nor is “combative”. How do you characterize someone with eight full years of college?
“Supercilious” comes to mind but “schmuck” is better.
********************
Translation: "I can't refute a single point she's making here, so I'll content myself with calling her juvenile names."
debil
"I can't refute a single point she's making here..."
The only points you've been making is how much better educated, better travelled, smarter and boring you are than us residents of Dog Patch.
The only points you’ve been making is how much better educated, better travelled, smarter and boring you are than us residents of Dog Patch.
**********************
As a famous liberal once said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Instead of whining about my attitude, why don't you SHOW me, objectively, why you think my observations are incorrect? Wouldn't that be a more effective way of putting me in my place than name calling and petulant accusations?
Oh, we never said that we felt inferior. Just that was the impression you were so sadly trying to make. If this is what eight years of college does to the brain, I'm glad I only have four.
Elrod, I defer to your obvious superior knowledge.
This time.
lol
Sadly, we live in a litigious country, someone will sue and the Reedy Creek restaurant will be forced to: 1) print bi-lingual menus, or 2) hire bi-lingual waiters or 3) pay a hefty fine and be forced out of business.
Sadly, we live in a litigious country, someone will sue and the Reedy Creek restaurant will be forced to: 1) print bi-lingual menus, or 2) hire bi-lingual waiters or 3) pay a hefty fine and be forced out of business.
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On what legal grounds are you basing that prediction?
I can't think of any law that would prevent this guy from requesting that his customers speak English (depending on how he plans to handle it if someone comes in whose English isn't as fluent as he expects). But, if he's going to be consistent in his demands of his customers, I'd suggest that he model the desired behavior, by keeping foreign words off of his menu.
That means eliminating such terms as:
a la carte
du jour
chili con carne
Alfredo
burrito
primavera
quesadillas
pizza
eclair
au gratin
marinara
creme brulee
Parmagiana
au jus
salsa
pasta
It also means that the bulk of his customers are going to be somewhat bigoted, if they'd think that an "English only" sign is a reliable mark of a quality restaurant.
But, hey, if that's what he wants, I say he should go for it. There are plenty of restaurants out there for us unreasonable people who are more interested in good food and service than the proprietor's political opinions. And who aren't ashamed to sit and dine next to people who speak languages other than English.
But, hey, if that’s what he wants, I say he should go for it. There are plenty of restaurants out there for us unreasonable people who are more interested in good food and service than the proprietor’s political opinions. And who aren’t ashamed to sit and dine next to people who speak languages other than English.
Olivia, you need to go back and listen to the video again and listen with an open mind. The proprietor stated that this was done because of communication issues and the fact that he and his staff do not understand enough Spanish but do understand when they are being cursed. It is not a political opinion.
And you are not an unreasonable person because you are more interested in good food and service.
You are an unreasonable person because you keep telling the people on this site that they are "somewhat bigoted". You see, it is that kind of innuendo that just adds to the divisiveness that is building in this country.
Cut the PCBS.
Ahh, Olivia..."It also means that the bulk of his customers are going to be somewhat bigoted"
The ever popular "if you disagree with me you must be a bigot."
As much as you denigrate the Tea Party, and conservatives in general, that makes YOU a bigot.
Ahh, Olivia…”It also means that the bulk of his customers are going to be somewhat bigoted”
The ever popular “if you disagree with me you must be a bigot.”
As much as you denigrate the Tea Party, and conservatives in general, that makes YOU a bigot.
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No, it doesn't. I criticize far right wing philosophy, fallacies and outright lies. Bigots, on the other hand, repeat nasty and dishonest generalizations about demographic groups.....such as the nasty little generalization that immigrants all speak English well enough to hire prostitutes, or get welfare.
In like manner, it would be bigotry on my part if I were to accuse you all of being, say, toothless hillbillies who swill cheap beer and commit incest. But it is NOT bigoted to point out the dishonesty in remarks you CHOOSE to post to this board.
Nice try at projection, though. That's become a favorite far right wing ploy of late (aided and abetted, no doubt by political infotainers like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity)----but smart people aren't likely to fall for it.
Olivia, my dear little pointy headed idiot. I asked you to be specific regarding the lies and bigotry you accuse the Tea Party of, and you have yet to do it. Please try. Come on, it's just a little baby step we ask of you, but you can do it. Until then, nobody here will take your accusations seriously. The people at HuffPo will love you, but they're just as ignorant as you are.
This whole English as a second language garbage is just more statist one worlder horse hoowie that seeks to balkanize America and introduce marxist-socialist voting blocs around the country that are self-interested and amendable to the idea of a North American super state. There won't be one language, but there will be one currency, the Amero, and we will be taking our marching orders from the UN and the World Court. We won't have our own army or navy to protect us from the horrible abuses that will surely transpire as a result of usurpation of our national sovereignty. I'm glad this guy is taking a stand. I think we had best do the same, while there's still time!
This whole English as a second language garbage is just more statist one worlder horse hoowie that seeks to balkanize America and introduce marxist-socialist voting blocs around the country that are self-interested and amendable to the idea of a North American super state. There won’t be one language, but there will be one currency, the Amero, and we will be taking our marching orders from the UN and the World Court. We won’t have our own army or navy to protect us from the horrible abuses that will surely transpire as a result of usurpation of our national sovereignty. I’m glad this guy is taking a stand. I think we had best do the same, while there’s still time!
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This message has been brought to you by the National Tea Party Council For The Preservation Of Ignorance And Xenophobia.
Good for him, Every business in the country should do this and maybe they would learn the language of THIS country.
Good for him, Every business in the country should do this and maybe they would learn the language of THIS country.
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For once, I agree with you 100%.