Famous atheist says Muslims peaked in the Dark Ages

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Famous atheist says Muslims peaked in the Dark Ages, haven’t done much since. Twitter row ensues.

J.P. Travis: Born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1976 graduate of University of Michigan, father, grandfather, husband, founder and CEO of Travelyn Publishing (http://www.travelynpublishing.com/), and passionate anti-government believer in individual liberty.

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  • B*tch has such big balls to badmouth Christians, but he gets some hate and now he is backtracking and apologizing for his comment. So Gutfeld spoke to an atheist yesterday and she actually admitted the truth: The only reason it is okay to go after Christians is because we are the supposed majority in the Western World. However if the Muslims were the majority in the Western World then atheists will go after them. However we all know that won't happen that is to say that if the Muslims win, atheist will have to either convert by force or be killed so they wont have a chance to b*tch and moan about Muslims. So this is all cowardly crap. She did not want to admit it, but the only reason they criticize Christianism is because they KNOW their heads will be safe where they are right now. They know that Muslims will never be a majority in the WW and they better hope not, because they will be amongst the first one to be killed or tortured or both. At least Christians BELIEVE in a Ultimate Deity, whereas atheists and agnostics are considered the worst kind of infidel to a Muslim. They will not be safe in a Muslim world. For atheists to be b*tches and not back this guy and for him to loose his balls is disgusting. At least admit that in a world where Christians are a majority they get to have their lives intact and free to b*tch and moan. In a Muslim world that stops immediately. What about atheists in Muslimlands and in Asia and in other non Western parts of the world? If atheists in the WW believe that the atheists in the non WW have the right to criticize Islam why don't they say that and support them? It is so much crap it is unbelievable.

      • He didn't "apologized"per se that was not the correct word to use, but he is explaining his position and walking back the blow. He is in essence wanting to make sure people don't think he is a racist. He is explaining again and again why he made the statement whereas he doesn't do that when it comes to Christianity. He is though defending the issue at hand, but he wants to make sure that everyone knows that his statement was not racist. When Christians get on his face he ridicules them, but in this case he took the time to explain his position. I find that hypocritical. Muslims deserve an explanation and a softer approach and watchful and careful consideration on how to make a statement, but Christians do not for some reason.

        "Twitter’s 140 character limit always presents a tough challenge, but I tried to rise to it. Nobel Prizes are a pretty widely quoted, if not ideal, barometer of excellence in science. I thought about comparing the numbers of Nobel Prizes won by Jews (more than 120) and Muslims (ten if you count Peace Prizes, half that if you don’t). This astonishing discrepancy is rendered the more dramatic when you consider the small size of the world’s Jewish population. However, I decided against tweeting that comparison because it might seem unduly provocative (many Muslim “community leaders” are quite outspoken in their hatred of Jews) and I sought a more neutral comparison as more suitable to the potentially inflammable medium of Twitter. It is a remarkable fact that one Cambridge college, Trinity, has 32 Nobel Prizes to its credit. That’s three times as many as the entire Muslim world even if you count Peace Prizes, six times as many if you don’t. I dramatised the poverty of Muslim scientific achievement, and the contrast with their achievements in earlier centuries, in the following brief tweet: “All the world's Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge. They did great things in the Middle Ages, though.”

        http://www.richarddawkins.net/foundation_articles/2013/8/9/calm-reflections-after-a-storm-in-a-teacup

        https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/with_replies

        Obviously Mr. Dawkins put thought into his tweet wanting to make sure that it didn't hit him hard back. I do give him props to go ahead with it, but what bothers me is the care that he put into it whereas I know that he doesn't put the same amount of care when it comes to Christians and that bothers me.

        • Interesting that of their pathetically low number of Nobels, half of them are Peace Prizes. So the vicious Muslims are racking up Peace Prizes for solving the wars and confrontations started by vicious Muslims! That makes the Norwegians look even stupider than giving Obama a Peace Prize.

          • Does anyone outside of progressive circles care about the peace prize? The sciences and arts awards yes. Those are merit based. The NPP? I have no clue what that is based on given recent history.

          • I found a website recently that listed Muslim and Jewish Nobel winners. Amazing that 20% of the global population has only won a tiny fraction of what 1/1000 of the population has.

            Truly underachievers are the Mohammedans.

          • they throw half their minds in the garbage (females).. such a waste. And Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about a notable 11th century figure who laid foundation for Mathematics-as-the-Devil thinking.. A flawed culture brought to ruin

            All they can do now is oppose theocracy with force, and shed themselves of most of their faith, if they are to compete with the West and rising Asian powers.. I don't know how that happens

  • They Still live in the dark ages.......Ever see a happy Muslim? (besides when they get to kill an infidel or one of their own for violating some bullshit rule) They are a myth, much like unicorns, fairy dust and Obama's leadership. Muslims are nothing but a sadistic cult of ignorant people who blindly follow whatever bearded weirdo they happen to be around, "people who follow like sheep, even when there is no where to go"....Much like democrats. Keep them ignorant, uneducated, and the followers will believe anything.....Unicorn fart sniffers all.....

  • I remember when our troops were amassing in Kuwait around 90, hearing that they had to keep their Bibles hidden. And we were saving those in Kuwait and their oil.

    • Now they have a special machine for shredding your fingers if you read a Bible in saudi arabia. I wonder about the other religion of peace countries and their imaginative punishments.

      • I saw that thing. You'd think with all their petro-billions they'd at least come up with something that didn't look like it came off a steam punk movie set.

        • I saw it too. It was the result of some ignorant fool putting their hand in a paper shredder. Totally false. Islam would have just cut it off.

      • If indeed this is the Muslim approach to slavery, how come Black Americans who are still bitching about Slavery here 150 years ago, are converting to Islam by the hundreds?

        • Because they are ignorant. Ignorant of their own history and ignorant of current events. The only culture on the planet still enthusiastically practicing slavery is the Muslim culture, and they still treat black Africa as their own personal Wal-Mart of slaves just as they have for centuries.

          • I was about to say that. Ignorance is the answer to Rose's question. Islam has an hedge where for SOME reason it protects it from telling people the truth. Oh yeah it is called taqqiya. So anyway ignorant fools that believe lies and do not know what is going on in the real world = stupid ass converts to a horrible and evil religion of pieces.

      • And I thought that Islam was the religion of peace, however, now I find out it's the Arabic version of the Democrat Party and it sho' nuff be liken it some slavery! They can all convert, or they can all burn in Hell...their choice.

    • If he's seen it, he knows that it's the result of someone sticking their hand in a paper shredder, and that there's no proof that it was done to someone for reading a bible in Saudi Arabia.

      Although it IS entirely believable, given what Islam has done, and is still doing.

  • Islam has failed to "moderate" or "reform". There were two Christian girls who were recently burn with acid, they were working with people (doing charitable work). Christians need to start getting the hell out of Muslimlands and Christians sadly to say need to stop going there. I feel bad because we are told to go everywhere and spread the Word, but I think at this point most of Muslimlands know the Bible because they have to read it in order to know what their enemy knows. The Word has essentially been spread in Muslimlands, either through the actions of Christians (of the Holy Spirit) or the actions of didacting Muslims, so.... the job is done, time to get the hell out in my opinion. G-d knows and He only knows if it is time or not of course, but just saying.

    They Islamists do these things like acid burning and violation of women (especially young and/or girls) to their own girls as well either from the area or from the religion. Islam is not a religion of peace. It wasn't created to foment peace. It was created to establish a human led governmental religion based society through force and violence if necessary and oftentimes it was/is.

    Unless Islam reforms or moderates it only contemporary contributions will continue to be terrorism and new ways to mess up innocent lives and kill the innocence of people. It is not acceptable that Islam continues to deny itself reformation of something that we can all agree even more peaceful Muslims is bad for humanity. Violence and hatred is not the way to go and Islam eeds to reform that. That IS part of their past, it is undeniable so at this point in time this so called "minority" that is the "only" one still doing it needs to get stopped and reformed and it can only happen if the so called moderate Muslims get off their asses and start reforming. If they don't want to reform then we need to get the hell out of Muslimlands and we need to stop visas from people from Muslimlands... Again sorry if this is "Racist" but it is what it is.

    • The good news is that an estimated 10,000 Muslims, many in countries hostile to Christianity, convert to the various branches of Christianity every year though they must keep their conversion secret.

      • They need to get out. Seriously that is my opinion. Like I said G-d alone knows if it is extremely necessary for Christians to continue to live in Muslimlands but at this point in time, this is the only thing I can think of they need to get out.

        • The problem KQ, is that the Christians and Jews were there first; it's the Muslims that are the squatters, thieves, liars, rapists and murderers, and oh, they breed like fleas!

          • Still... they have to leave. All in all is like Sodom and Gomorrah... once those that G-d wanted to protect from the ultimate destruction left, fire and brimstone. Just saying...

          • Okay, I see where you're coming from, but I don't entirely agree with it. Just because you've allowed a three hundred pound gorilla to live in your garage for years, because if you hadn't he'd kill you in your living-room and eat your dog, it isn't a reason to leave your home so he can eat his bananas in peace while you live under a bridge. Maybe we Christians weren't savage enough in protecting ourselves from these vermin, in the first place. We don't have anywhere to run to now, so we either deliver up our 'A' Game, or we're as good as dead! We should pray for the conversion of Islam, but we should prepare for Armageddon!

          • Pray for your enemies.

            God bless and keep the czar. . ..far away from us!
            Rabbi in Fiddler onthe Roof.

          • So what is your solution? Christians aren't allowed to arm themselves and when they are attacked they are attacked by many at a time not one by one given the Christian at least a chance for hand to hand defense. Many Christian children especially girls and young women are raped and many by more than one man and due to being physically weak and without a weapon cannot effectively defend themselves.

            If a Christian family has a chance to leave in my opinion they should. I am unsure what you mean by A game here, it is not like they live here where they can go out get a weapon and essentially state to their Muslims neighbors: "If you come into my house or take one of us and hurts us I will kill your ass and the JUSTICE SYSTEM will vindicate me." I am talking about Muslimlands and THE REALITY that is there, not what it could have been if things were more equitable and it WASN'T a Muslimland. Sure, you can say that about here in the US, but at this point in time it is weird to say to a Christian in Muslimland... "Hey bring your A game and SOMEHOW prevent yourself and your family from being a victim and even if you succeed, somehow prevent the Islamic court system from finding you guilty and not taking your side even if it is just."

            So in my opinion the solution is to leave whenever possible. Your solution is for the Christian to exercise rights that he doesn't have by the fact that he or she is a Christian in that land. Unless I misread what you are saying.

            Sure we can pray all day long for more Muslims to convert, but all in all the truth is that many won't and even if a minority remains unconverted they will still be a danger to Christians in those lands.

          • And they are working diligently inside the system to get laws changed HERE, so they can do as they please, and call it religious freedom.

      • Yes they do MDLION and often with terrible repercussions for them and for their families. If you've been keeping up with some of the shit coming out of Syria, you'll have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about.

        • Its remarkable so many try, even in secret. Were it not for the overwhelming murderous force brought to bear by that culture, many magnitudes more would flee that faith every year. So many of them are merely cultural prisoners of their theocracies--that's why I always hesitate at carpet bombing..

          Not only do they fear reprisal from their clergy and government, but they deal with a culture so entwined in ancient Arab tradition--a brutal tribal code from an unforgiving landscape--that they must ALWAYS view members of their own families as potential agents of a centuries long inquisition. This is worse then your neighbor being an informant to the komissar or secret police in a grim socialist regime. A lady dresses the wrong way, or attracts the unwanted attention of too many men, and suddenly her father and brothers are hacking at her with blades.. Honor!

          For all my unbelief, I will always observe that Judaism emerged out of a more civilized culture - one integrated with both rural and urban life, with a history of both conquests and subjugations, lending it a broad perspective. Christianity did the same, with the advantage of being immediately plugged into a vast imperial network of roads, cultures, and lore.

          Islam flourished in what amounts to an apocalyptic wasteland, maddened by punishing sun, oppressive autocrats in distant walled cities, and perpetual blood-feuds. These tent-dwellers killed at the slightest perception of insult. These are not the people you want creating a One God Religion and taking it around the world. It'd be like asking the Mongols or Picts to do the same.

          And then the Seljuk Turks pick it up, just as Arabic culture is beginning to chill a little, and things get bloody all over again. This reminds me of arguments about Christian Franks slaughtering Pagan Saxons in the Dark Ages. I hear about the Bloody Verdict of Verdun a lot. Yeah, it was awful, but it can hardly be blamed on Christianity, as the Franks were pretty barbaric to begin with. Rather, it happened despite Christian doctrine (I would venture political advantages were conferred to the Franks by its adoption, and access to more advanced cultures, and a general boost in unity and morale). And we can always thank them for stopping the Moors in Gaul..

          So on the one hand, you have a barbaric culture (Franks) abusing a fairly peaceful, civilized faith born in civilized realms, and on the other, a barbaric culture (Turks) fusing with a brutally unforgiving creed born out of a violent wasteland.

          I find it all fascinating, and my sympathies for those lashed to the latter..

          • Exactly. One can point to Mohammed and their religious texts and find REASONS why their behavior is as it is. According to Momo and their texts their actions ARE justified and agreeable to their god. Jesus Christ (and His disciples and His apostles) did not promote what Mohammed promoted. In fact, quite the opposite. Someone doing what "radical" Muslims do in the name of Jesus Christ can be shut down immediately as it is not at all agreeable to Him at all and there is no text that can be found that defends their actions.

          • I've always wondered about that forced conversion thing. I mean, if I were faced with a credible threat of death to me and my family, I could probably be forced to SAY I loved Mohammed, or Jesus, or Buddha, or whoever. But even a Muslim must know that deep in my heart, my core beliefs have not been changed.

            Don't they?

          • My dear Flash you would think that but you would be wrong. It doesn't MATTER if you love Momo or not, Islam is not about a relationship with allah, Islam is about DOING the things that Muslims do in the face of everyone else. That is to say, some Muslims MAY question your INNER loyalty to Momo, but most Muslims will not give a whip. As long as you BEHAVE and act according to their ways it is all good. Muslims have no problem with you lying your ass off (taqiyya) and saying you love Momo, because the most important thing is that you SUBMIT and that you DO what the religion tells you to do and raise children accordingly. In fact, many religious leaders will find it wonderful that Jews, Christians and Atheists "convert" knowing fully well that they don't really believe in Momo and allah. Why? Because by lying and submitting and pretending that you are a Muslim, you are making yourself an hypocrite and they can say that your true beliefs were weak to begin with. It is a despicable game.

            It is a game that was not meant for you to win. However there is only one way to truly win, but it is a way that would lead to the most suffering.

            If you stick to your beliefs and do not deny them even in the face of persecution and death, they tax you to death, they torture you to death, they hack you to death or they just simply kill you and maybe rape you somewhere in there. They may think that they won, but only won over you physically but not mentally and spiritually and like all demonic ways that is where they want to win. So it is a hollow victory for them and a true victory for you. They hate it when you do not submit no matter how they go at it.

            If you do not stick to your beliefs, prove yourself to be weak and an hypocrite you can definitely avoid the persecution and death, but in the end, they win the true victory over you and that is what they want.

          • You are thinking like a Christian. Christians convert the heart and mind or they don't consider it a conversion at all. Islam means "submission" and they don't particularly care about the manner of submission. Forced submission is fine. Propagandists try to sugarcoat this fact by saying Islam means "voluntary submission to God" but they are simply blowing smoke - the word "Islam" comes from the Arabic root "Salema" which means submission and obedience... no "voluntary" implied or necessary.

            The simple meaning of a word pretty much explains the 1,500-year history of Islam, eh?

  • There is some truth to this point. Still, in closed circles, I hear Muslims speak reverently of Saladin (the Muslim Military Leader who first took Jerusalem from the Crusaders). However, as a history buff, I must contradict part of his statement. The Muslims were the keepers of knowledge during the Dark Ages and it was a relearning of this knowledge that helped usher in the Renaissance. So, personally I would add 100-200 years to the above mentioned statement as to the Muslim peak.

    • He's right on this like a broken clock is right twice a day. My favorite story about Dawkins is when he debated the Archbishop of Canterbury and the archbishop tricked him into admitting that ID is the most viable explanation for life.

      • That's MY Bishop! Seriously, it appalls me when people ask me how I can have a science degree, and still believe in GOd. I am here to tell you with the things I have seen over my career, I could not DO what I do UNLESS I believed in GOD. And more and more scientists are coming to the same conclusion. If you don't believe, that is your loss in my opinion. But get off my back about MY beliefs, and quit assuming I am stupid and uninformed simply because I do believe,

      • Christians may not like him because he's an atheist, that's easy enough for me to understand. But the specifics of his Islam critiques are pretty spot on.

        I'd like to see that portion of the debate (w Archbishop). I'm guessing some might interpret that outcome differently.

        From one of those debates (they've had a few?), i found this interesting (regarding my first point):

        I'm grateful, by the way, to be a cultural Anglican when you think of the competition..

        If I were a cultural Muslim, I would have something to say about that faith's appalling attitude to women and various other moral points.

          • I think his admission to the archbishop was that he is an agnostic rather than an atheist, whereas it was Ben Stein to whom he admitted that life on Earth may have been created by an intelligent designer. Both admissions demonstrate the logical difficulties of being an atheist - when pressed for details, they must necessarily yield their untenable positions.

          • True that. They have to yield, or rely on faith. That's why i could never stomach militant athiesm.. In my agnostic view (i.e. What Do I Know?), you can no more say there is NO god then there IS one.. I'll just wait till i die and maybe i'll find out

          • I suspect most people are agnostic at some point in their lives. I know I was, along with being adamantly ardently anti-religion. Since I personally met Jesus (don't laugh, I did) as a child, it seems like an illogical position to hold. Basically I was turned off by the hypocrisy of the church I grew up in and didn't know how to reconcile the overt fallibility of the people in church with my own personal experience with God. Took me until about age 40 to figure it out.

          • Man, you've been scarce these past few weeks but you've come raring back with a vengeance. All good posts here!

      • “He’s right on this like a broken clock is right twice a day.”

        My instant reaction when I read the title of the post was “well DUH”.

        You can make the observation that when the sun is shining, it’s light out, but that doesn’t make you a physicist.

        "...that ID is the most viable explanation for life"

        Maybe he thought the archbishop was talking about the Freudian "id"

  • One has to wonder the source of his freedoms; no Creator, no rights, according to the Declaration of Independence.

    • This would mean that all rights and privileges derive from the State and are always conditional. He'd fit right in at Belsen Bergen, as part of the research staff.

  • A few Muslims did contribute to the advancement of civilization a few centuries back, but there has been quite an extended dry spell. I object to the term "Dark Ages" because it's a slap at Christendom. It's as if they say: With the falling away of religion starting at the Renaissance or "Enlightenment" man came to the light. Yes, there have been amazing breakthroughs in technology and medicine in the past century or so. But counting abortions, there are way more human beings murdered today than at any time in history. The 20th century was the bloodiest century in human history. There have been more Christians martyred in the past century than in the first three centuries plus after Christ when there was vehement persecution.

    If Dawkins still thinks Darwinism is a strong argument, one wonders how much he truly knows about Darwinism. Does Dawkins know that the Church set up the first universities? Does he know that the Church was the patron of the first scientists?

    An excellent book, which is about 160 pages, and demolishes Dawkins' ideas is "God Is No Delusion: A refutation of Richard Dawkins" by Thomas Crean, O.P.
    http://www.ignatius.com/Products/GIND-p/god-is-no-delusion.aspx

    • I'm sorry but members of the Islamic faith haven't contributed much besides goat fornication to civilization since the religion was invented.

        • Though generally accepted at the time. Mary was what, 14? 15? But assumably that went by the wayside as life spans lengthened and civilization spread.

          • Many people want to say that Joseph was in his forties and was already married and was a widower and had kids and so on and so forth, but why? That is actually inconsistent with the times in Ancient Jewish culture. Children became legal adults at the age of 13. It would make perfect sense for her to be married off around that time 13-16 years old to a boy 15-18 who was no longer apprenticing and now had his own business. So there is no pedophilia there especially since Joseph didn't take her out of her house by force, and also there was an entire year before they actually had sex after being legally married as per their culture.

            Mohammed however got involved with a six year old girl! Disgusting!

          • I think people assume Joseph was older because he died first. No facts to back that. The rest is exactly what I was saying. Marrying off a 13year old seems like pedophelia. But it was a common practice when the average life span was maybe 30. And marrying off infants was also practiced to ensure pacts . Made between the parents. But those were un consummated til at least teen years generally. But 6? Ewwwwwww.

          • I think people assume Joseph was older because he died first. No facts to back that. The rest is exactly what I was saying. Marrying off a 13year old seems like pedophelia. But it was a common practice when the average life span was maybe 30.

      • True. The contributions of the Persian Empire were way before Mohammed. They were already on the downswing when he showed up. The Persians gave is art, literature, mathmatics, science. Islam, not so much.

    • How is Dark Ages a slap against Christendom? I've always heard it as more the shadow that fell across Western Europe and Mediterranean after the fall of the Western Empire in Rome, and Germanic hordes crashed upon the remnants. Imagine.. Vandals-germanics from what is now Poland for chrissakes--managed to set themselves up a kingdom in North Africa, until the Emperor in the East slapped them down.

      Crazy crazy times, that's all.. Peasants living under titanic imperial ruins, and much old knowledge lost

      In further point of fact, rather then being a slap on Christendom, I've always heard of Christian monastic tradition as being the Light during these times

      • And the plague. THat decimated the population, made people fearful of travel, and allowed the feudal system to flourish. Long before the crusades, I might mention.

      • Yes, as PsychoDad said, "Dark Ages" more and more with moderns is a slap at Christendom. When Pope Benedict was elected a number of libs talked about him being from the "Dark Ages". When he was Cardinal Bergoglio of Argentina, the current female feminist-president of Argentina said Pope Francis was a "medieval relic" after he publicly rebuked her on her efforts for same-sex marriage.

        "I take in order the next instance offered: the idea that Christianity belongs to the Dark Ages....in history I found that Christianity, so far from belonging to the Dark Ages, was the one path across the Dark Ages that was not dark....how can we say that the Church wishes to bring us back into the Dark Ages? The Church was the only thing that ever brought us out of them." -G.K. Chesterton (1874-1936)

      • I believe he means how the term is used by some to disparage Christian civilization and the Church.

        • ah, as metaphor for backwards thinking, in their view (like characterizing someone's thinking as medieval).

          I can see that.. eff 'em though, it betrays ignorance. Without the Church and emergence of Christendom in the West, much more territory would've fallen to Islam during the Dark Ages.

          I suppose then the Vikings would've been raiding Mosques, not Monastaries

          • I've not thought of that in that context. Totally agree. Can you imagine the Vikings and Muslims going at it? Did you ever read Crichton's "13th Warrior"?

          • Never read it.. I might have it boxed away. Wasn't it titled differently (Eaters of the Dead or something?)

            I loved the movie.. I know a lot of snarky shitheads think it was silly, don't care

            Lo there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning..

          • You are correct. "Eaters of the Dead" was the original title. I beleive it has been renamed twice over the years. One of Crichton's first novels. I was still in high school when I read it the first time.

          • "13th Warrior" was a really good read. At first, the mix of characters seemed odd, but it worked.

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