How ‘Pro-Choice’ are Democrats?

How ‘Pro-Choice’ are Democrats? Ah proglodytes . . . if it wasn’t for double standards they’d have no standards at all. (BTW, we’re very pleased with how nice that quip is, which of course leads us to believe someone, somewhere has probably said it before.)

Kip Hooker:

View Comments (79)

  • I finally got the video to run/ What a bunch of retards! (sorry , mentally challended individuals!) THEY don't know what they believe and they obvioulsy have no clue what the word CHOICE actually means! I f government regulates it, it isn't a choice!

    • It is a context trap, and a clever one to spring on DNC. Obviously they are too slow to catch it. It is like confirming a pro-lifer's stance and then attacking then for supporting the Death Penalty. Minds are notoriously slow at context switching (this is even identified in the omnipresent I Just Walked Into This Room And Forgot Why Effect..) And these folk don't seem too bright

      • If a person has thought their position through, carefully, and comprehensively, then they have already asked themselves questions that a normal "man on the street" would ask, and a context trap means exactly nothing. What we have here are a collection of people who have not thought things through -- some because they blindly believe what they are told, others because they were never that bright in the first place, and still others because they cut themselves off from other opinions in the pseudo-religious circular logic "I'm right because I'm a good person, and I'm a good person because I'm right".

        It all makes for great TV. I actually feel sorry for them -- clearly they are not wearers of the thinking cap. However, I am also angry at them, as, like Voltaire said: "The way to get people to commit an atrocity is to get them to believe an absurdity". Our government suffers when people like this refuse to think, and demand to vote. I think that voting is a special privilege, and voters should have enough of a stake in society that the ones incapable of open-minded reasoning are filtered out.

        The old system of property owners, or even the system of only allowing military the right to vote both have an appeal in this -- because it is a scary thing to think that numskulls like this are granting people power over the rest of us. I've said it before, I'll say it again -- I'd rather have an enemy working against me than a fool on my side.

        • “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville

        • The system of only property owners voting was essentially limiting the vote to the contributors, the persons who were building the country. While times have changed and I don'tthink one should be denied voting because they don't own property anymore, it DOES concern me that the idea of a well informed, well educated populace is far what we have here. Iknow in my area, Demonrats are frequently elected because of our heavily Hispanic (and frequently illegal) population. And most of the locals will vote for whoever has the best (most) beer at their fundraisers! THis is NOT the way to choose government leaders!

          • I don't know if a positive qualifier (owning property) is the way to go -- but at least a negative qualifier (felons, welfare recipients (both individual and corporate), illegals) would filter out people with a horrid conflict of interest. That said, aren't those the prime constituencies of the democrats?

            That's why I'm hanging my hopes on a democrat party implosion post-2012.

          • When I was in school,. low these thousands of years ago, I was taught that felons cannot vote. But now they are not only voting, they are holding public office, etc. When did that change? THat criminals got to choose government representatives (or be one themselves?)

          • Whether felons can vote is a state decision and different states have made different choices. Personally I like it best when felons lose the right to vote until their sentence is served, then when they are free again they have to APPLY to regain their voting rights. Nothing automatic. And I think a small citizenship test should accompany the application so we aren't herding a bunch of compete morons back into our voting booths.

          • I like the idea of negative qualifiers, and recipients of government freebies is a great one. Otherwise, don't we basically have the inmates running the asylum?

        • I just watched the video, and I have a question. I don't understand how an entity by the name of Reason even got inside the Democratic Convention.

      • A context trap doesn't work if your paradigm of the universe is internally logical. In other words, try to catch me with the pro-life/death penalty juxtaposition and I am not flabbergasted because I know why the life of an innocent unborn child and the life of a first degree murderer are both valuable to God, but one merits protection and the other merits harsh punishment by society.

        • The trap works when cleverly executed.. the problem incorporates inconsistency in the language itself, often due to heavy reliance on overloaded words. Common debate tactic, for which there is assigned Latin I will never remember without googles. I'd just never seen this particular one until Reason deployed it

        • Exactly. I have no problem whatsoever rationalizing the two. It is the liberal inverse position I find disgusting. The liberal will decry capital punishment but screech about a woman's right to choose *to kill her kid* in the same breath.

          • I am only a supporter of the notion of capital punishment, not the reality of it. Sounds contradictory, I know, but I found myself in complete sympathy with the Illinois governor (Democrat I believe) who ended capital punishment in the state because so many men were found to have been incorrectly convicted by the Innocence Project. The current justice system is so politically corrupt, so skewed by improper motivations, and so fallible and ridiculous, that I don't think it's worth the risk of executing innocent people. I'm not somebody who thinks the system has to be 100% accurate, but it has to be better than this before it should be killing human beings.

          • There is only one thing that needs to be changed to make me fully on board with capital punishment. It needs to be completely off the table in cases where there is ONLY circumstantial evidence, or ONLY confessions. We should not be killing people because some prosecutor manages to twist a jury into believing something without SOLID evidence. Period. Go ahead and toss them in jail forever - then, if there is a mistake, it can be corrected (sort of).

            But like, that guy up in Oregon who killed a family, kidnapped the two littlest kids, raped and murdered one ON VIDEO, raped and finally was caught with the other kid - HE should be dead. There is no reason he should be allowed to be alive.

          • There are many people who are undeniably guilty, plenty of evidence, and they don't get the death penalty. I don't understand what the purpose of keeping them alive until their natural demise is. Those against the death penalty often use the excuse that it is actually more expensive to put them to death than to keep them alive indefinitely, but that's only because THOSE SAME PEOPLE have made it that way!

            Then there are those who use every excuse they can find why each and every type of execution is cruel and unusual. Nonsense! For me, lethal injection is too good for someone who has killed innocent people. Electrocution, although it looks like it's extremely painful and gruesome, actually isn't. I've seen the video, (Faces of Death), of the guy being put to death in the electric chair. Very disturbing, blood coming out from under the patches they put over his eyes, jumping and twitching in the chair for many long seconds. I can tell you from experience, he was dead long before all that.

            When I was electrocuted, 12,000 volts for approximately 15 seconds, leaving me dead for a few minutes before Huntington Beach Paramedics revived me, (Thanks, guys), I felt nothing at all after the first small fraction of a second. No pain whatsoever until I was revived. If I had a choice of how my life would end next time, electrocution would be near the top of my list. Quick and painless.

            I am certainly not one to want innocent people put to death, nor to have them sit in prison for years. Fixing the judicial system is absolutely necessary. No question about that.

          • I agree with you there.. given absolute certainty, I have no problems with death for monsters. That crazy dude spraying rounds in Aurora theatre? Fry him. Anyone touches my kids? Someone, maybe me if I fail, is going to die. Otherwise, gotta be sure about it before calling the executioner

          • We may never have another opportunity like this, where DNA revolutionized our ability to analyze evidence and exonerated hundreds of men. From now on, corrupt cops and win-at-all-costs prosecutors will make sure the DNA evidence is falsified along with the rest of the case. So we may never see the flocks of wrongly-convicted men being released... but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

          • And there are dozens of books out that track the determination to find a certain person guilty of a certain crime, regardless of the truth. The evidence is skewed, witnesses are not tapped, they make the judgement then try to get what they need to "rpove" ot in court. So while I am not against thedeath penalty for certain crimes, I DO think we need to be very sure about the courts being on the up and up, as well as prosecuters, etc. Usualy defense lawyers are less experienced, lhave les funding to work with, and don't have the contacts the DA has to prosecute.

          • I think the biggest problem is the fact that prosecutors, who often have political ambitions, are judged almost entirely on their win/loss record. They need to keep that up near 100% if they want to get promoted or run for office on it later. That means they can't back off on even the most outlandish and inappropriate cases.

          • Flash, that is exactly how I would like to see it. Our judicial system was set up to prevent "railroading" innocent people. But the lawyers and the law makers (mostly lawyers) have so twisted the system that anyone from the arresting officer to the judge and jury can be manipulated, lied to and lie themselves. Defense lawyers are suposed to ensure a fair trial. Instead, they assume their job is to have the client delared innocent. Juries are meticulously researched and chosen. Not at all a jury of peers, but a jury that the prosecution and the defense can tolerate. Its a mess. I believe in the death penalty, but I do agree that the system is broken.

          • I think so too. As I said, I think the biggest problem is the way we grade prosecutors on their win/loss record, which encourages overreach.

          • Might I suggest we fix the system, rather than eliminating the death penalty? Is it ok for people to sit in prison for a large portion of their lives, rather than be executed, for the same reasons you're speaking of? I think that the system could be changed so that innocent men suffer neither prison nor execution, rather than eliminating the death penalty.

  • Gay marriage and abortion are the only freedoms in the DNC platform. In other words, other than those two issues, STFU, citizen! The government will free you from having to choose.

  • Dear God... please shake some sense into these poor souls. They are so lost.. they will never find their way back to reality.

  • I couldn't get through the whole thing, it was my choice to stop the video, please don't hate me.

    Liberalism is a mental disorder. What do you want me to say?

    • I hear you! In the past week I have suffered through women in vagina suits, planned parenthood supporters insisting that conservative women are only conservative because their husbands tell them to be, insane old ladies at the DNC threatening to kill Romney, delegates who think that profits should be outlawed, and DNC merchants who sell Obama bumper-stickers while screeching about how they built their own businesses, just to name a few videos. I am at the point where I watch a few minutes and feel my IQ dropping!

      • I'd happily sell obama stickers. They'd say:
        "Obama <3 me", and the <3 would be water soluble and cover a picture of a screw, so that immediately after the election, the sticker would still be useful for the idiots that buy it.

        Barry loves me, this I know
        for the idjits tell me so.
        Little juans to him belong
        brains are weak, but BS is strong.

      • And that is why, Karmaa, I didn't watch the campaigns. I am so sick of the lies. the manipulation, the half truths, all the stuff you listed and more! I'm sick of it! Won't dumb down my poor remaining bruised brain cells anymore!

      • Can't stand watching any of that crap either. DNC talked about respecting women and honored Ted Kennedy and had Clinton as the keynote speaker. Geez, why not just go for the trifecta and bring John Edwards in?
        And one woman was saying the women wearing the vagina costumes were brave. Brave? I thought they looked like a bunch of p@ssies. (Sorry, I had to go there).

        • That angered me. I am SOOOOO much more than my vagina! To distill everything female, feminine, or womanly to an embarrasing excuse for a vagina makes me so mad I could spit nails! WHO is having a war on women?

          • Imagine being a conservative black person and observing identity politics as it distills everything down to "blackness". Can't imagine the level of insult the DNC offered to women or minorities who are not kool-aid drinking liberals.

          • Exactly. I am so sick of libs telling blacks they are too stupid to function and care for themselves and their families! Of COURSE they can. THAT is true discimination, right there!

          • I deal with a fare share of black people. In 58 years have yet to run into more than one or two I'd call stupid. While perhaps not educated, they sure as hell aren't stupid. They're very resourceful and intelligent people. (Just like most everyone else I deal with). Many of them are smarter than I'll ever be.

            The Democrats are bullshit artists extraordinaire. Many blacks are awakening to this and voting Republican. More soon will. Like Lincoln said: You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

            What the Democrats do is certainly true discrimination.

        • I know, the hypocrisy and rhetoric have gone to extreme lengths in the Democrat party, it's unbelievable even for politics. If you believe the crap they are throwing, you are either lying and have a political agenda (i.e. are a promoter of Marxism), or have been so brainwashed that you don't understand simple common sense reality.

          This is probably the extreme of the Democrat party. The real test will be how many votes Obama gets in November. I just don't know how hard working, blue collar Democrats can possibly vote for this guy (unless they are union first and don't follow politics or our countries well being after that).

          • Even Cokie Roberts, usually a reliable liberal, complained on "This Week" today about a Democrat obsession with abortion during the convention:"I think this Democratic Convention was really over the top in terms of abortion. And you know at some point you start to alienate people."

          • When a major political party opens its tent up to every nut job faction with an agenda and an axe to grind you end up with this. You also end up with voice votes to screw Israel and eliminate God from the platform. I don't see the Democrats ever moving toward the center unless they lose badly over at least two or three more election cycles.

          • Athiesm is the fastest growing segment of population.. i can feel it too, as they insist I'm some feeble fence sitter for saying I Don't Know when questioned about gods

          • Maybe so and as you know, I'm not religious but to strike the Creator from the platform is just unnecessarily antagonistic. I like the idea of a higher power despite the fact I can't fully embrace the trappings that surround it.

          • For me, anyone who accepts tht there IS a Creator, and that Creator wants to be in relationship with us, that's good enough. Many Native American tribes accepted Christanity easily because the concepts were similar. And since I , personally, am not God, I don't feel it is my place to judge what you believe. If you aske, I'll tell you about Christianity and the peace it has brought me, but you have to come to that with God on your own. Its way above my pay grade to dictate what YOUR relationship with God shoold look like. (I KNOW, I KNOW, I'M ON MY WAY TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET!)

          • You wrote an interesting article. I've always felt the left has waged war on the WASP-types -- but the demographics of those in power have changed, while the tactics and understanding on the Left hasn't.

            For a good look at how it used to be, watch 'Caddyshack'. Now we have the left waging war upon George Zimmermann (apparently an honorary WASP) and hating on Clint's role in 'Gran Torino' (another honorary WASP). The people actually in their sights simply refuse to participate, leaving the Left with having to find proxies for their hate.

            Pathetic, really.

          • We’re in our second year of a 100,000-to-1 unlikliehood, so that’s two years of our country’s 235 year history.

            So something has occurred less than 1% of the time in our nations history and you jump to a conspiracy?

            Got a new comment today. She says it’s because Protestants are ignorant whereas Catholics aren’t, basically.

            I take it she's protestant then. ;)
            I see you had no response to her...probably a wise choice.

          • Not astronomical? Are you serious? They might not be lottery odds, but they're pretty bad. We're in our second year of a 100,000-to-1 unlikliehood, so that's two years of our country's 235 year history. Before that we had I don't know how many years of only 1 Protestant of the 15, which in itself had a very high unlikliehood. Meanwhile, as my column points out, nothing changes no matter who wins the presidential election, so we're looking at a few more years. At what point to you say to yourself, "Hey, something is suspicious about this lack of Protestants at the top."

            Got a new comment today. She says it's because Protestants are ignorant whereas Catholics aren't, basically.

          • Good cuz Lucy's crabby not pi$$y; there's a difference. :D

            anyway...you were talking about odds, and my point was that the odds you provided weren't really all that astonomical. But I figure you got that too.

          • JP, I knew the universe wasn't a good example and I knew you'd hit me on it too. :) Let's just say people are a heck of a lot more random than God is.

          • When Kennedy ran in 1960, there was a huge blow up of Protestants being concerned if he wouldlisten toAmerica, or the Pope. He was the 1st Roman Catholic elected to the office. Protestants ran a great deal of the country until then, and were frightened of the changes he might have made. Now, since America as a whole is claiming to be anythig BUT mainstream Protestant, I think they are less concerned with the religion of theire representatives in Government. Yes, as everyone becomes "spiritual, but not religious" atheistic, bhuddist, Muslim, Jehovah's Witnesses Mormons Bhai and a scote of others,. no one cares if Mitt is not a Methodist. Plus people think Mormonism is Christan. Its not.

          • Oh you ARE pithy, trust me. (Please remember that I have no front teeth and cannot pronouce certain sounds.)

          • DRB, I think you're arguing against yourself, but I'm too much the gentleman to point it out. Oh wait... are you saying that you DON'T think God created the universe and it DID happen by chance?

            I'm confused. Women.

          • Shoot, just noticed I typo'd up there. It should have said "Especially, since I’m NOT a particulary good one myself."

          • they are ridiculed and marginalized mercilessly by journalists and Hollywood and leftwing advocacy groups,

            Yes, JP...fringe element, not your average joe/jane

            Yes I know you wonder what are the odds? Well, better than the odds of a single planet in the entire universe to have ALL the needed conditions to sustains such complex biological life as we have on this little blue planet to have occurred randomly but here it is and here we are and that is how science tells us it happened.

            When you can show the same pattern happening multiple administrations in a row, then you may have a case. Until then I'm not buying into this little conspiracy theory.

          • DRB, look at the third comment below the posting: I deal with the unlikelihood (sic?) that we could have all 15 top leadership positions in Washington, D.C., fail to have a Protestant - the odds are less than 1 in 100,000 that it could happen by chance. When you see those kinds of odds, you have to at least wonder if Protestants are being frozen out. I think they are. Watch what happens to evangelicals in politics: they are ridiculed and marginalized mercilessly by journalists and Hollywood and leftwing advocacy groups, as they did with Michelle Bachmann and tried to do with George W. Bush.

          • JP: No, I won't get upset! My reason for distilling it down to believing in the creator is based on the Trinitarian concept that Jesus was indeed, God, incarnate. If yu believe in GOd, you believe in Christ, whether you realize it or not. Many many churches have changed their preaching style. No longer is God portayed as an old man with a beard to his waist and a lightening bold in his hand, waiting to strilke you down for the least offense. GOd loves us. Stupidly, crazily, can't get over it loves us. THAT is the real message of God, of Jesus, of the entire Christian church (or should be at least.) Being in community with like believers is for YOUR benefit, not God's. He knows we need support to stay on the path, since we have so many distractions trying to pull us away. He only wants what is best for us. If you truly worship GOd on your truck, in your boat, at hime, that is PERFECT! God is not a Sunday thing, then back to business as usual Monday morning. Its an all the time. infused into your entire life thing. Will you screwup? Probably. But God loves you anyway, and will take you back every single time. That is hard for us to understand.

          • Meanwhile, you wouldn’t believe the hate mail I’m getting for Saturday’s J.P.’s Moment of Common Sense: Mitt Romney, Mormonism, and the big freeze out. Guess I farted in the elevator with that one.

            Really? You're getting hate mail for that? I mean I wouldn't say you "farted in the elevator with that one." whatever that means. I just think you see it as a bigger deal than I see it. Truthfully, I don't think people in general pay that much attention to other people's religious beliefs. I think those on the fringe do (religious fanatics if you will) but not the average Joe/Jane. So the fact that the current break down of which religion does correlate with the general population doesn't necissarily mean that something is wrong. It may simply be that voters don't cast vote base on whether the candidate believes(religiously) exactly as they do. Maybe people just voted based on how well the policitcal views of the candidate matched their wn. Maybe they just look to see whether there is a D or an R next to the candidate's name. Maybe they just vote based on who they think is coolest and don't look at anything beyond that. I know I don't say, "Oh wait let me check to see what religion this guy practices, heaven forbid I vote for a non Roman Catholic!" Especially, since I'm a particulary good one myself. I mean I get anywhere near a church and I start looking up at the sky searching for any sign of lightning.

          • "I have an agreement with God, I live my life as I see fit, and if I stray to far, he/she/it lets me know."

            Oddball, He did let you know. He sent His only Son.

            ;-)

          • Oh boy, religion. It's a touchy subject, because most people can't talk about it without getting upset. For instance, I want to say if you're a Christian then people accepting a Creator is NOT good enough, and you have a responsibility to let them know that. But I'm afraid you'll get upset if I say that.

            Meanwhile, you wouldn't believe the hate mail I'm getting for Saturday's J.P.'s Moment of Common Sense: Mitt Romney, Mormonism, and the big freeze out. Guess I farted in the elevator with that one.

          • And that, my dear sa_rose, is exactly why I do not believe in church (or religion if you will).
            I tried a lot of churches in my youth, and for the most part the message was "Believe as we do or suffer eternal damnation."
            If I (in their eyes) am going to hell anyway, I will do so on terms I am comfortable with.
            I talk to God every day, usually just to thank him for a beautiful day.
            I have an agreement with God, I live my life as I see fit, and if I stray to far, he/she/it lets me know. Other than the few times I was just too stupid to listen, it has worked out just fine. As you said, I do not force my beliefs off on any one else, nor will I allow them to do so to me.
            I WILL, however, fight to the death to allow others to follow THEIR beliefs (even Muslims) as long as those beliefs are tolerant of others.

            It is the extremists on ALL sides that make it bad for the rest of us. Those are the folks I will stand up to.

            End of rant.

          • I'm with you ballz. Every reoganized religion known to man, Catholic, Baptist, Jehova's Witness, Jewish, Methodist, Amish, even Muslims, every one of them preach THEIR way is the only way to God. They are all full of crap and full of hypocrites.

            My church is my home, my boat when I'm out on the lake fishing, my pickup while driving down the road, my church is wherever I happen to be.

            I don't have to sit in some grandiose building, built for mans gratification instead of Gods, and pay some preacher or priest to tell me how I should live. I'm perfectly capable to figure out how I should live and treat my fellow human beings all by myself.

  • As I keep saying, using logic on liberals is as futile as asking a fish to do calculus. Even when you're done and their inability to reason has been exposed, they won't get it.

  • Hey lefties. Here's my choice-fuck you and the horse you rode in on you hypocrite scumbags. Pay for your own rubbers, and your own abortions when you are too lazy to buy a 3 dollar pack of rubbers. Pay for your own food, house, healthcare, cable, car, phone, and I'll pay for my own. Try to dictate my choices and we have a "war" on our hands. Cause the only way you will force your choice on me, is if you are picking a burial or cremation, cause it will come to that when you try to push your ideology on me and make choices for me/my family.
    That is all scumbags-pound sand!
    Have a nice day.

  • "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for me, but not for thee."

    That pretty much sums up left-wing thinking.

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