In the Common Core curriculum that answer is okay. As long as a kid can explain how he got there, they don’t care whether his final answer makes a lick of sense. It’s about appearing to make an effort and having your heart in the right place. So pretty soon all our kids will be liberals.
This post was last modified on January 26, 2021
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Poppa, I'll reply to you for all of the above, We DO have a problem with a population who can't reason. Just look at the Zombie voters that pull one level because the candidate showed up on their favorite late-night talk show.
The real question is: Can we TEACH people to reason? I think we can but how, where and when? I am not convinced that the politically correct, propaganda-driven school system can manage much more that mere polemics. That is what killed common core in Texas:
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/05/28/common-core-state-standards-what-states-are-saying-no-thank-you
Everyone prefers local control over Federal.
But how do we teach kids to "think?" Do we want real analysis or talking points? Do we as them to cite the pledge of allegiance without understanding the words, much less the sentences that contain them? Common core" couldn't get the good ideas off the ground for the weight of agitprop inserted by DOE ideologues.
At the very least, we need to get schools off the dogma treadmill and into some form of fair and balanced debate. Ideas don't come in a "packet" from Washington but well thought out arguments in respectful contrast to others (of reasonable merit). By reasonable merit, I mean that don't hold Al Sharpton in the same esteem as George F. Will just because I have come to believe one is more "reasonable" than the other.
Close-mindedness is not just on the left. I am rated so low that my comments will no longer be displayed, yet, some above have conceded at least some credibility to my entries. I didn't blog to pick a fight, I blogged because the "rationale" idea itself was condemned just because it "seemed" that a wrong fact might be praised as right (which it is not and she said that).
Your comments are only hidden from those who don't want to read them, for anyone who is curious, they can click the "Click here to see" button and all will be revealed.
Don't know, no time to dig right now, but the fact I didn't automatically want to throw the bs flag says a lot.
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2013/08/common-core-the-qatar-connection-a-wahhabi-state-skypes-with-your-children/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
[edit] Oh, forgot this, goes right along with it
http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2013/08/25/meet-the-radical-lawyers-suing-bobby-jindal-to-block-school-choice/
I learned old math, then New math, andwhile i can perform basic math at an average level,i hate it. My children come along and they not only hate math, but 2out of 3 have learning disabilities in math. They wouldcome home with oodles of homework which we ALL struggled to get done. The next day, if they had a papar to turn in, regardless of what was on it, they received credit forhavingdone their homework. No one ever checked to see ifthe knew want they. Were doinguntil test time. This is tbe samE generTio that can't count change without a calculatormy dad was oneof only 3graduating from his country school and he managed to pass tests on calculus and geometry to become a pilot. I think he got the best education of us all.
Ever notice that if you don't use numbers for a while the multiplication tables take a second or two to come back? Especially 7x8 and 7x6 and 8x9 for me. And when that happens, they say whichever direction you look while you're thinking is where you stored them in your brain. (I learned that last bit of trivia at a party where lots of alcohol was being served so take it with a grain of salt.)
As a grading foreman building roads, airports, bridges, etc, I used math quite a bit at work. Not terribly complicated math, but we were basically doing large scale geometry on the ground, with accuracy within .02 of a foot.
When I had a guy come out to work with me, and his idea of doing math was to scribble on a piece of cardboard with a pencil, I told him that the next day he was to show up with a decent quality calculator, and the ability to use it, or be fired. I want people to know how to do math, how it works, understand what the calculator is doing, but I don't want to pay them forty dollars an hour to do on paper what could be done in a fraction of the time with a calculator.
High school graduates should be proficient in math, and by proficient I mean they should be able to come up with the CORRECT number, and feel good about it. But I think the efficient use of tools, like calculators, is also important, and should be taught in school.
Welcome to the advanced stupidity of the liberal controlled education system. Where up is down, and down is up. Where 3+4=11, and reading at a 7th grade level, if that, at graduation of high school is ok. Where being world ranked at 25th or worse in math and science, while leading the world for generations, is now the norm. Where stupid is the norm, where stupid is ok.
Common Core, which is neither, is the same system that Texas recently banned, due to the fact that children were told NOT to tell their parents about the curriculum. Where the history of troglodytes, muslims, was taught as a religion of peace, and how they have contributed much to the advancement of the world. Things that those of us WITH brains, not still brains of mush like the average 30 year old and younger, know otherwise. Where 9/11 is taught as a GWB/Cheney conspiracy...where 7th century cave dwelling troglodytes are considered worthwhile additions to rational and civil society.
People, liberals like their base stoned and stupid. Stupid people, liberals, aren't capable of logical or rational thought. And that, people, is where we are.
Don't forget the homos. Common Core high lights the gay agenda.
E = MC hammer
"Our public education hit rock bottom long ago. Now they are drilling into the rock."
First hit
" ...but the Pennsylvania State Education Association – the state’s largest teachers union – estimates it will be around $300 million, according to WITF.org."
in Pennsylvania (and we all know they're just rolling in cash), only 56 more states to go. Ha! Yes I can.
As long as your final answer doesn't end up something like "We should not allow illegal immigrants to remain in this country," or "Taxes are too high."
Some things are just beyond discussion.
Well, they come up with 3x4=11, didn't they? So they should easily be unable to understand taxes and immigration. Precisely what the left wants.
They need these people to run Obamacare.
They voted it in.
Complainers are missing the point. The teacher is not advocating learning wrong facts, she is advocating giving partial credit for having a rationale. If the student learns to HAVE a rationale, that is good. If they can state their rationale but it is wrong, the RATIONALE can be corrected as well as the outcome.
We already have a big problem in the US with voters making big decisions with little or no rationale and learning to actually have one is a good thing. Otherwise, we get robots who don't think about who to vote for until they bite into that hot dog at the rally on election day.
Teachers? Liberals? Rational?
LMAO....
I cannot begin to express how wrong you are. You have accepted the education establishment's rationale for this nonsense without pondering the repercussions. We have advanced beyond every other country because we believed in rational objective reality, not because we open our hearts to alternate reasoning. Reality is not relative. It is what it is. 3x4 is 12, period. When I decided to become an accountant and took my first accounting class as a junior in college, the midterm exam involved merging two companies. I did it perfectly except for one tiny flaw - I confused which side was called "debits" and which side was called "credits" because my summer job was in a bank (where they are reversed). So even though my final balance sheet and income-loss statement were exactly right, I received a zero on my exam. And that's what I deserved. I didn't even argue. No matter how much I demonstrated that I knew all the principles of accounting I was supposed to know, no matter how much I could explain my work, the answers were 100% wrong.
Which is all that really matters to whoever might want to hire me as an accountant in the future.
The right approach is a balance of memorized "factoids" and reasoning skills to use them. Of course, I am not advocating telling students they are "right" when they say 3 x 4 = 11. They should be told, "no, that's wrong. Now, let's see how you got there..."
Factoids and habits without understanding LEADS to the mistake you quoted above. (which, by the way, I have trouble with too.) I think we are saying much of the same thing but are divide by a common language.
"I think we are saying much of the same thing but are divide by a common language."
You mean like the Brits and Americans? Cool.
There's much more to this I don't like than this example but it'll do, what are we talking here first or fifth grade? And what age does the correct answer kick in and become mandatory? Middle school, high school, when?
[edit]that I even have to ask says a lot, but that's an honest question.
I see what you're saying. We have been told for so long now that "rote learning" is bad that it almost sounds sacreligious to disagree and propound that yes, rote learning is a big part of acquiring knowledge. If not now, then when WILL the correct answer become of paramount importance?
And I cannot think of a better example of a situation that requires rote learning than the damn multiplication tables! For God's sake, I was practically a math phenom but long before I learned math I learned multiplication by rote!
When will the right answer become of paramount importance? Good question. I'm thinking that it is sometime before the surgeon makes his first cut into my skin. At that moment I want my doc to know the CORRECT answers. No amount of rationale will make me feel better if his scalpel nicks my carotid artery and I'm dead before he finishes singing "The neck bones' connected to the.... ooops"
Right, imagine how many people would die if 99% of jetliners landed safely.
No, of course not. Doctors and pilots need to learn and maintain certain skills to 100% But rote learning alone will train a population of zombies lost if a problem does fit a memorized answer.
Look, we are all gun shy from politically correct intimidation and propaganda being pumped out through the education system and lamestream media. We need students who can think for themselves to reject it and find the truth on their own. Why not start training them to think in childhood? Later, they can use that knowledge to correct their own mistakes and reject dogma.
BTW, my comments only apply to this one teacher's explanation. Texas recently rejected common core for other agendas they espoused and rightly so. I am just commenting on the need to teach facts and rationale.
Look, at my age, this common core concept wasn't even around when I went to school, yet I have no problem solving problems that don't match my memorized set of facts. It's called developing critical thinking, but making sure you have the facts correct first, otherwise you look like a moron.
If the "reasoning" that they want to teach was really reasonable, the child would be able to come up with the correct answer. It doesn't help at all to be able to reason, if you reason incorrectly.
I appreciate what you're saying, but I think the fact that constant repetition of flawed reasoning has convinced you, an otherwise intelligent human being, is a good example of how effective these people are at selling their viewpoint. Reasoning is important, yes, but the problem is that our schools are emphasizing reasoning and self-expression at the expense of factual correctness. The example used by the Common Core instructor is 3x4=11 - there is no personal line of reasoning worth examining here. What kind of reasoning can there be for 3x4=11? Maybe the student drew three groups of four then counted them wrong. If that's the case then the teacher is wasting everybody's time because drawing three groups four is a stupid way to learn the multiplication tables, far less efficient than simply memorizing them.
Your last sentence is the problem. The example in the story is all rationale and little or no facts. No one here is suggesting learning by rote alone to create zombies. Elementary education is the foundation for everything else that comes later in a kid's school career, right? What has worked forever is memorizing the basics like the multiplication table as JP mentioned. When a kid starts to read poetry or classic novels, then he can use reason to defend his interpretations of the works. To suggest that there are no absolutes or truths in science, math, or other subjects where there is a need for precision is stupid and can turn society into a mass of ignorant drones who feel good about themselves. Exactly like the Democratic Party, actually.
Call me cynical, but I'd love to know if our new commenter (I think) and friends use SEO keywords and drop in wherever these discussions are popping up or if they're assigned a handful of sites from the top 150 list to monitor.
Uhm... people like this have to get paid because I wouldn't have time for that just for the ideology love.
What I'm reading is exactly what Evan Sayet writes about in "The Kindergarten of Eden" where he quotes Howard Zinn: “Objectivity is impossible, and it is also undesirable. That is, if it were possible it would be undesirable.”
Sayet goes on to say: "In other words, the left believes there is no basis for value judgments or absolute truths. He (Zinn) is, in essence, saying he rejects the use of a search for truth – and his mindless foot soldier followers are told that anyone who would declare his own point of view right, or another point of view wrong is and can only be a bigot (for his side) or a phobic (against the other).”
This is the rationale for Common Core and it shows how incredibly dangerous it is to the well-being of a free society. Zinn was a communist and a well-known educator. Nothing more needs to be said about him.
And Florida is adopting Common Core. Just what we need, making the dumb, dumber.
1+1=POTATO
Hey, as long as you feel good about that answer and can explain it, we support your self-expression.
So, using your equation, POTATO+CARROT= E? Therefore, we can assume that E does not equal MC squared and the entire solar system will collapse within itself as predicted by Algore and gang making global climate change/warming a valid concern. Cripes, I'm gonna need some tequila and model airp...
Close,
(POTATO+CARROT)^BLUE = E/0
E-I-E-I-O