Chicago Tribune drops the hammer on Obamacare

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• Can the editor please check the website? There is an annoying and irrelevant buzzing coming from somewhere.

  • It appears this thread has dysentery....That problem of being unable to stop crapping all over the place....Crapper thy name is Oblivious.....

    • The problem with debating a liberal is they have no interest in debate. Their primary goal is to try and make you look stupid in their eyes, not carry on a constructive discussion. I've learned this and have thus given up even attempting to engage them. Just tell this silly twit to shut up or call her a stupid mother fu**er and move forward. I can assure you she feels the same about all of us. Take away the "make believe element of civility" from the discussion. Say what you mean to these people to their face and don't try to win them over with logic and facts because they aren't interested.

      • The problem with debating a liberal is they have no interest in debate. Their primary goal is to try and make you look stupid in their eyes, not carry on a constructive discussion.
        *******
        Actually, I've provided quite a few facts and logic here myself....and, surprise, surprise!----no one (with the occasional exception of Sidekick) even tried to refute it. The rest of the responses were the kind of childish insults my kids outgrew before they left grade school.

        What does that tell me? It tells me that you're not capable of backing up your opinions. I guess that's why you're so hostile to the idea of someone who disagrees with them showing up here.

        • TD/MO and turds, same as it ever was......

        • Trolls use our refusal to engage them in their futility as a win for their side, it makes no sense to acknowlege them.
          They believe all the BS they post is not only relevant, but factual, regardless of it being roundly discredited, so to try and support your side, or debate their point, is useless.

        • Hence the profound wisdom of Robert Heinlein's saying: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

        • That's one of the few truths I've seen posted here lately, Stinkfoot.
          It's amusing that none of you (except, occasionally, Sidekick) will even try to refute what I 'm saying, but are so quick to fling childish insults.
          Kind of a pep rally mentality ("we're the best, and the other team stinks!")....but zero insight into the issue of health care in this country.

        • Between Oblivious and Crowley , finding truth in their constant denial of reality reminds me so very much of old Stuart on Mad TV -----http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvbFMGmImg

        • Imagine being so morally bankrupt and so self deluded that every time you wrote your thoughts , you thought " Look at what I think , Look at what I think !!!! " . Anyone with a normal functioning brain would see a modern version of " Stuart " , while the writer would continue to polish the turd and think they made a masterpiece .

          Yes Oblivious , " Look at what you can write , Look at what you can write !!! " My hope Olivia is that one day you find the real happiness that your mind is denying you . Evil can NEVER produce happiness , just more evil .

        • Hey Neo-7, now you're so unclear that your post requires translation! Maybe if we dumb it down some, the troll might comprehend!
          OOPS! Sorry, I didn't mean to use such a big word, the troll won't understand it.
          Let's try this again, Maybe if we dumb it downsome, the troll might get it.
          There, that might work.

        • Translation: "Yeah, I can't refute what she said, either. Gosh, why is it that these lib'ruls always seem to get the better of us in these discussions?"

        • And right on "Que" the libtard from the Barack Lagoon responds...

        • libtard from the Barack Lagoon

          WIN!!!

        • There it is again, Obsessive-compulsive Libturd on display..She still can't get the idea no one cares about anything it says..but feels it is her duty to post bullshit all over the ITHM website..and argue with herself....A sign of insanity cause it looks like nobody here wants to take a bite of the bullshit..Perhaps next time you go to the doctor Livieturd, Ask about fetish control....You certainly do have a problem. and if you haven't figured it out, nobody here wants to listen to your insane bullshit this time around....TD/MO

      • Bravo! You are absolutely right MGAP

• Very true, when your family has lived under socialism, and come here to live free, it’s difficult to get the spoiled people to understand that socialism isn’t the perfect system they have been led to believe. My family fled Germany and Italy prior to WWII because of Mussolini’s facisim and Hitler’s socialism. Having never had family living under such regimes makes people oblivious to the real effects. Traveling to such countries never gives you the true view of the realities of living there.
  *****************
  1) Hitler's government was "National Socialism" (a misnomer, by the way), a.k.a. fascism. Not the same thing as a free country with some social programs.

  2) It's silly and unrealistic to try to pretend that every country with government sponsored health care is the equivalent of Nazi Germany. I've never yet met a Nazi Germany refugee who left because s/he disapproved of having affordable health care----and, if you're honest, you'll agree that you haven't, either.

  3) How funny that you righties clamor for "freedom"----yet have nothing at all to say against the death penalty, forcing religion and religious teachings down the throats of the populace, and forcing women to go through medically unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds if they wish to have abortions. Those are far more "Big Brother"ish than simply seeing that a person can and will take financial responsibility for his/her own health care.

  • Hey, nurse bedpan...was just wondering.
    The last post you had on this site before our vacation from you was you thinking about my penis. Soooo, did you spend all your time in the rubber room with the wrap around sport coat following up on that thought?

    So I will say again. STOP THINKING ABOUT MY PENIS!

    Kahn seems like a nice, however misguided, guy. I would hate for him to think I am a threat towards his affection for you.

    • Hey, nurse bedpan…was just wondering.
      The last post you had on this site before our vacation from you was you thinking about my penis. Soooo, did you spend all your time in the rubber room with the wrap around sport coat following up on that thought?

      So I will say again. STOP THINKING ABOUT MY PENIS!
      ***************
      All this raving about penises sounds to me like somebody forgot to take his Geodon today.

      P.S. They don't use strait jackets on psych units any more. Haven't used them for decades. Besides, what would be the point, if the patient were in a room with rubber walls and floors?

      • Ah there she is, has to respond late at night when she hopes she won't get thumbed down.....Obsessive-compulsive disorder on display...

• As for socialism, yes I do know what it is, & in it’s extreme forms, my family on both sides has fled it. I wish to thank progressives for continuing to turn our nation into what we fled. That’s what leftist progressives who promote socialism do. Just like locusts, you ruin where you are, flee to somewhere nicer, & repeat. What so many say is “I’m moving for economic opportunity”, & I don’t want them moving near me. Unless they understand why there is opportunity, they should stay away.
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  So what socialist nation did your family members flee from, Dany? Did they flee because they disapproved of affordable health care for all, or do you think maybe there was something else going on (like, say, a dictatorship or persecution of the masses) that you're not thinking about?

  Not sure what the tirade is about "progressives" (sorry, but I'm perfectly happy with the fine term "liberal") moving to someplace "nicer." What place do you consider "nicer" than the U.S., and what gives you the idea I'm planning on moving there?

• The problem is as you stated exactly. The incessant demands for “proof” while she only posts anecdotes, global generalizations, and straw men arguments without any back up reached an absurd level. In ONE day.
  **************
  Tell you what, Kick: I'll ask you to back up one of your pronouncements here, and you can ask me to back up one of mine.

  Deal? Or are you still more interested in repeating rhetoric than providing facts and logic?

• Finally got a turd. My Dear Sweet Olivia is officially back!
  ***************
  You did indeed, Flash. Of course, it would have been much more impressive if you'd had an intelligent rebuttal to offer, following my example of the patient with osteosarcoma, who delayed treatment because he was uninsured.

  I'll just take your silence on that issue (and your eagerness to get my post hidden) as evidence that I won that debate. But, hey, I'll give you full credit for knowing how to click on a thumbs down symbol.

• FTA: There were also large regional variations within the UK, which were linked to differences in access to care and ability of patients to navigate the local health services. Both are directly linked to deprivation.

  How can that be? Universal healthcare is the promised land of socialists everywhere. Surely no one could be denied access in the UK?
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  No, that's not what I said, my boy. YOU are the one who keeps using silly loaded expressions like "promised land" and "socialists" here. I merely said that socialized medicine is NOT the horror right wing political manipulators try to claim it is.

  So some patients in the United Kingdom suffer for lack of good medical facilities nearby. That's also true here in the U.S. Even right wing hero Sarah Palin admitted that her own family used to drive to Canada for medical care, instead of using the for-profit American system that she's now trying to foist off as superior to all others. And, by the way, it's one more reason to support universal coverage. There will always be some inequities in health care, but what's the point of deliberately building them into the system, as you righties are so eager to do?

  Incidentally, I clicked on just one of your links, the third one. You don't seem to have realized that it effectively gave the lie to your claim that socialized medicine is inferior. Why? Because Japan and France were both credited for being #1 in the world for certain types of cancer. If socialized medicine were as bad as you're pretending, the U.S. would have beaten all the other countries, hands down, in ALL forms of cancer.

  Off to work now. Have a good time trying to spin that one.

  • Does anyone else wonder if she's noticed that she's talking to herself again?

    • Not only is she talking to herself, but it seems she's begun declaring victory because we refuse to engage her stupidity.

    • No, we know she is, she's the only clueless one.

• The government had to pay for the war and it got away with confiscatory rates for quite a while since we were the primary global supplier of everything.
  ***************
  Lucky thing that Roosevelt didn't pull a stunt like cutting taxes while going to war, huh? ;>)

• My favorite:
  For domestic help.
  In the case of a single person living alone, or a couple both in employment/business, a tax credit of equal value is available if you are unable to take full benefit of the tax allowance. A tax credit is also available for those who have been registered unemployed for at least three months during the year.

  Apparently, the unemployed (presumably collecting unemployment transfer payments) employ domestic help. How egalitarian!
  **********************
  Not sure why some of your posts aren't followed by a "REPLY TO THIS SPECIFIC COMMENT" to click on, but I'll respond by C&Ping all or part of them at the bottom of the thread.

  Do you see something wrong with the fact that some French people employ domestic help, Kick? That's a curious attitude. Why am I thinking that, if we were talking about wealthy American right wingers like Romney and Justice Scalia and Rush Limbaugh, you wouldn't be so quick to condemn them for not being "egalitarian" enough?

  First, you must understand something about French values. They aren't quite as impressed with right wing American priorities as you right wingers are. They've heard all the horror stories about American workers suddenly losing their jobs (and sometimes their pensions) overnight, and ending up in poverty and homelessness, and they don't want that there. So they have many policies that protect the worker. One, for example, is generous unemployment benefits. Although they've been trimmed down somewhat since I lived there, it used to be that, if an employer laid off an employee, he was responsible for paying a large portion of the employee's salary for up to two years, or whenever the employee found work. The idea is twofold: to keep workers from losing everything on the whim of an employer, and to keep employers from hiring new employees that they don't intend to keep.

  Thus, the reason for tax breaks when one has hired domestic help is not necessarily to coddle the unemployed person, but to keep the domestic employee from losing HIS/HER livelihood.

  And, yeah, I'm sure you think that's a horrible idea. Well, different strokes for different folks, and all that sort of thing. You know how you right wingers HATE to hear about people living the life of Reilly on those princely $400-per-month-per-family "welfare" benefits here in the U.S. France prefers to keep these people employed, whenever possible. It also helps the family that employs them, because sudden job loss doesn't have to mean the sudden departure of a good nanny or home health aide, while the now unemployed person scrambles to get another job.

• The problem is as you stated exactly. The incessant demands for “proof” while she only posts anecdotes, global generalizations, and straw men arguments without any back up reached an absurd level. In ONE day.
  ***************
  No, Kick, you're being dishonest. At no time here have I asked for "proof," since I realize it's impossible to prove much of anything in cyberspace. I merely asked you to back up several of your claims with facts and/or logic.

  That said, let's go see if you did what I requested. (Yeah, right.)......

• Now they decide to investigate and to look into things. Too bad they couldn't bring themselves to look into this POS legislation and it's name sake before now.

  So all the leftist and "progressives" suffering from buyers remorse ? Has the kool aid worn off? Wait until quagmire complains and whines to the wookie and she calls the owners of the paper. A retraction is forth coming and the report and editor will be unemployed if they are lucky.