Martin Dempsey responds to Muslim violence with tough talk. Tough talk for Pastor Terry Jones, that is. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff called the Florida pastor and begged him to withdraw support for the online film causing Middle Eastern Muslims to attack U.S. installations. Here’s the important question: How did this pencil-necked little sissy get to be our top military officer?
This post was last modified on January 26, 2021
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Because ovomit likes blow jobs from old white men.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/claim-obama-hid-gay-life-to-become-president/
I doubt an American general would call a civilian and request he shut up without the prior approval (and probably order of) the White House.
The paranoid in me says he was coached. The realist in me says that statists of all stripes are happy with what he did.
Like a friend said of auto mechanics: "To the customer, there is absolutely no difference between fraud and incompetence. The effect's the same."
Sorry guys, but I have to say this: "Gen. M. Dempsey, CJC" is a progressive and was hand picked for that position by BHO. I wouldn't expect him to say anything independant of his handlers or stray from the official progressive playbook! I mean, idiots are what idiots say!
Robert Goodloe Harper: "Millions for defense. Not one cent for tribute!"
First Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
US Military Oath of Office: "I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "
Perlcat: "Fire this asshole. He isn't doing his job."
Absolutely fire him. Disappointed but not surprised that there is a debate about this.
There appears to be no order he will object to.
Political General.
Wonder where the Southern Poverty Law Center ranks the muslim brotherhoodies, hamas and CAIR
“The Council on American-Islamic Relations blocked a Daily Caller reporter from access to the group’s press conference Wednesday afternoon, accusing the outlet of being a ‘hate group’ …
http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/13/thedc-morning-cair-doesnt-much-care-for-thedc/
OH MY GOD!!! This!! http://tinyurl.com/94e2k9v Reports that Stevens was RAPED before he was murdered!!! NOW I AM SHAKING!
One can hope the Ambassador was dead or uncncious during this final indignity and assault.
Ok, now what happened? FIrst we are told that everyone was in a car that was hit by a rocket. Now we hear that the locals stormed the embassy ( or consulate or whateer they called the building) killing the victims inside. We were told they were taking the ambassador to they hopsital, but he appears dead in the photos and now we hear he was sodomized. This stroy has so many holes it could pass as one of Obama's golf courses. I suspect we will never hear the truth, we will never "catch" they guys responsible and these incidents will continue unabated at least until someone else is in the White House. Poor Stens family, having to look at these images everywhere! God give them peace.
Karmma
Rant on. As for the film maker. That's the first I've heard it was done by an Egyptian.
The sexual assault of the ambassador doesn't surprise me, repulsed me yes. These animals feel it's their right to sexual assault the infidels and allah along with mohammad will be thrilled with their actions. These bastards need to die.
Notice how the msm here hasn't spoken a single word of the sexual assault. They are cowards.
This also enforces the concept that rape is about power and control, not about sex.
You are absolutely correct, deepthinker. The media in this country are metrosexual wussy pussies who probably have their shoes tied by their butlers or maids every morning.
I was discussing this yesterday with a close friend who watches Fox, but he hadn't gotten online to follow the story. When I stated that the Ambassaor's body had been dragged through the streets, he disagreed with me saying that Fox hadn't shown that pic.
I agree that the sexual assault doesn't surprise me for the same reasons you stated, but why in the world does the US think we can in some way appease or mollify these pieces of human excrement?
Appeasement for them is for all of us to become muslims, or to die.
WE NEED TO FIGHT THEM WITH EVERYTHING WE HAVE. BOMB THEIR COUNTRIES, BOMB MECCA. Period. Force is the only thing they understand, and if the US doesn't get with the program, we are doomed.
Our present POTUS would prefer that we subjugate ourselves and our country to these vile, evil people. UGH.
Way to take it to eleven.. We got hit by an Al Qaeda allied force in Libya. Why? Because we recently killed their #2 in Yemen. So we will kill more of them, and we are exceedingly good at it. That's the long war. Spitting at the commander-in-chief won't help. Al Qaeda doesn't care about our political parties. Indiscriminate targeting in field of battle only swells the ranks of the enemy.
While many here depict Obama as an Islamist collaborator, progressives decry his "secret" Al Qaeda Kill list. Its like dealing with 2 different planets. Their problem is that they don't know who is on the list. I really don't give a f-ck. I'm just glad he's got a list with Al Qaeda names on it and he's pointing at them and saying "yeah kill that dude"
With a straight reading of the Reuters blurb;
"U.S. military officials are concerned that the film could inflame tensions in Afghanistan, where 74,000 U.S. troops are fighting. The Taliban earlier on Wednesday called on Afghans to prepare for a fight against Americans and urged insurgents to "take revenge" on U.S. soldiers over the film."
Afghanistan. Taliban. 74,000 U.S. troops on the ground. He ASKED the whack-job to CONSIDER withdrawing his support for the film and pointed out the threat to our troops. What First Amendment violation? Sounds to me like he's doing his job.
Not me. Imagine the intimidation of a man misusing his power and position to make you not use your right to free speech to enforce the will of a hateful society that simply cannot abide the fact that here in the US, we have freedom of speech. We live in a nation of laws, not some freakin' banana republic where a guy in a funny hat with a lot of self-awarded medals calls the shots.
His job as a soldier is to follow orders, not circumvent their intent, or reinterpret them favorably in a way that makes his job easier. Freedom of speech can be ugly, but it is protected. He has no higher authority in the oath he took than to the US Constitution. To him, a little suppression of a "whack-job"'s rights are more important than the Constitution. Again, he took an oath. What exact sort of disciplinary example is this, that any soldier can call up the people in the US that make life hard for them and hassle them because they have this right to free speech? I suppose if they don't like what democrat senators say, that they can call up the senator and hassle them? I know for a fact that Joe Biden has said actively hurtful things about the US military, but apparently, every soldier in the US military other than this poindexter takes their oath seriously, and doesn't do that. What do you think would happen to them if they did back-talk Joe whenever he says something stupid (about the military in specific -- policing every stupid thing he says would be a full time job)?
Therefore, this individual has violated his oath, and needs to be fired. I have no patience for oath-breakers.
Of course, as the JCS he only takes orders from the President. He may very wel have been following orders to make that call. I agree that Jones can say what he likes, but the media needs to shut the hell up about him and he would fade back into the woodwork before he does some real damage.
In a theoretical sense I agree with you & Elrond wholeheartedly, but in this specific case going by only what the article says, all I see is a guy trying to protect the troops and he didn't come close to trampling anybody's rights. So, shoot me, can I still buy ya a beer?
I don't deny that his motives are honorable. Unfortunately, there's so much more to it than just good intentions -- if it were not so, then a lot of Democrats would be able to fix a lot of the world problems they complain about. The crux of it is that their good intentions just make matters worse.
Anyway, anytime you're ready, I'll drink beer with you.
Damn, you just showed me what I was missing that made me less than right. See, some of us listen. Now if you could just end corporate greed. And Jones' daughter said "he ain't been right in the head for years" the first time he cropped up.
Well, while I believe the contact operation was a cluster, I will cut the guy some slack. No doubt the order came from empty chair central to further centralize the problem on the insignificant pastor and not Chairman O.
No doubt!
So forget about whether you think it's correct to have the top military man calling U.S. citizens about their manner of self-expression - forget about that - it's also pretty damn stupid. I'd like to think the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs has a better understanding of the Internet than to think he can remove something from the World Wide Web by calling Pastor Terry Jones of Florida. It's so monumentally stupid it flabbergasts me. Maybe - maybe - he could convince YouTube to remove it from their site, but it's out there for good now and Martin Dempsey needs to go back to school if he doesn't understand that.
I'm not sure that was his intention. Terry Jones had planned on showing the film on his site, on 9/11.. but claimed some technical difficulty. Dempsey made his brief call the day after
Now i gotta go check out his site.. and *shudder* maybe watch the film/trailer whatever it is.
You won't make it through the 14-minute trailer. Trust me. I tried but it was so dumb and so amateurish I couldn't make it. Instead I posted the photo of Merkin Molly, figuring that was a better use of my time... so what does that tell you?
...not to mention the fact that Jones is a known attention hound. This was paydirt in his world. Thinking that he'd sit on it as a conversation between gentlemen makes the ludicrous assumption that Jones is a gentleman. IIRC, Jones has been in the news before.
Gawd, I miss Harry, and I wasn't even alive then.
Yeah, why in the hell give the pastor more attention by calling him? Stupid. Reminds me of something Truman said about generals when he was explaining why he fired MacArthur:
"I fired him because he wouldn’t respect the authority of the President. That’s the answer to that. I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that’s not against the laws for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail…"
He had a conversation with him, if i take the article correctly. I doubt intimidation factors at all into a Terry Jones mind, and if he claims he felt intimidation, that's either his failing or he's lying (were there actual threats?)
What's the oath-breaking violation? Can we drill down to a particular article in the UCMJ, for example? This sort of thing would be litigated, of course, which demands specifics
He is a representative of the military branch of the US government. As such, he has every right to an opinion as to the orders he is given, and the society he protects. He just needs to keep it in the context of his office. The oath-breaking is when he uses his position to start making phone calls to people exercising their right to free speech as a representative of the US government.
This is borne out in case law in the military, especially in the case where officers are not allowed to have relationships with enlisted -- even though there may be no sexual coercion, the difference in rank and power is such that you cannot prove otherwise. In such an imbalance of power, there is no such thing as a "friendly chat". Just because Jones isn't sane enough to be intimidated doesn't mean that others won't be.
If he made the call as one citizen to another, then there is no issue -- but then he wouldn't be in the news over this, would he?
There are very solid reasons, made law in the Constitution he swore to uphold, why the military is not used as a police force to control the population in the US. Poindexter crossed that line, and friendly chat or no, he should go -- and I'd say that if he was leaning on Chuck Schumer, half of Occupy Poop Street, or whatever. The amount of civilian rights he just eroded here are frightening.
You as a civilian and a friend have a right to tell me to STFU. If you were in police uniform, and you needed me to STFU for safety, you also have a right and the authority. If you are in military uniform, sorry, you are now US property. Everything you do, including getting a sunburn on your ass, is an act on the US government's part, and different rules apply.
Officer & enlisted case law doesn't seem wholly salient here, because I doubt Terry Jones give a flying fark what Dempsey's rank is. We learned early not to expect any particular deference from civilians, ourselves, and that was post Desert Storm. (obviously time changes things, and I was never an officer or high ranking)
I suppose a point of debate here is where does it fall on spectrum of Friendly Chat-to-Leaning On-to-STFU! I've been giving the general the benefit of the doubt. I can imagine him asking as one man to another. I don't know what's legally required to steer him clear of First Ammendment violations. You must be picturing a different scenario to invoke the charge of Oath-Breaker
And after all, it sounds like Terry Jones considered Dempsey's advice, which included observation that the film is pornographic, with which Jones stated no Christian should be involved with
...and yes, I know, that was Marines -- but interservice bickering aside, I guarantee you that the Army would do the same.
I'm not specifically talking about the officer/enlisted here -- just the balance of power, and not even talking about the effect upon Terry Jones. This is a mechanism to obstruct free speech in general, and allowing it to be put in place anywhere is damned spooky.
I do not give the general the benefit of the doubt, as he is not the spokesman for the entire US Army. I believe they have entire groups of people dedicated to that. Just because he's a top dog in his area doesn't mean he gets to grant random authority elsewhere. From what I know, the army doesn't work like that. A soldier may have discretion, but in today's Army, where the ROE makes them guard an embassy with rifles without ammunition in them (and they obey this utterly profound, shocking stupidity without "leaking" to the press), I'd say this is a shocking departure from discipline.
It could have been a lot different. Suppose he was in the local Dairy Queen, he saw Jones there, and he had a chat. That's one thing. This isn't what happened. He hopped up on a national stage, and that's where he lost me. I don't care how good his argument is, or whether or not Jones is a nutcase. I care that an ugly precedent has been set.
"Spitting at the commander-in-chief wont' help."
No, but voting him out of office will.
I have no use for Terry Jones who is a buffoon, but General Dempsey has no business calling him and asking, in effect, to shut up. The general swore an oath to defend the Constitution, as far as I know the First Amendment remains a part of it.
Americans tell each other to shut up all the time. Its a god given right, right? Gimme 30 seconds and I can find someone here telling John the Paulista to shut up, within mere days or hours ago.
Dempsey didn't censor Jones.. he just thumbed him down (boo -1) No violation there.
So, in the contest between a General in the field trying to ease the hostiles around his troops, and the whack-job holy warrior who wants nothing less than all out war between Islam and Christendom, I'll go with the General.
I'll die to defend this country if need be, but i won't engage in a senseless holy war.. Unless said holy war threatens this country, and that's the Terry Jones trap right?
"Americans tell each other to shut up all the time."
Yeah, so what. American generals don't call American citizens and tell them (or order them) to shut up. I've never heard of such a thing before, have you? Yes, Dempsey did't censor Jones, he can't censor Jones. We should dread the day when generals (or politicians) make a habit of calling American citizens and ask them to "shut up". The First Amendment protects everyone, even buffoons like the Reverend Jones.
Reverend Jones is an attention whore who undoubtedly loves the publicity this phone call gave him. But Jones can't start a holy war, not even with the local Catholic church, much less 1.5 billion Muslims.
There's a bit of a difference between us telling an idiot to shut up on a website forum, and AN AGENT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT doing it. If I need to explain the difference, you wouldn't understand.
I guess one of my original points was where was all this First Amendment outrage when the Bush White House pressured newspaper editors not to run stories because they could betray intelligence gathering techniques or assets, or troops on the ground?
[edit] New York Times leaps to mind
Perlcat, a long time ago, before Wysiwyg, I was in a crowd of political debaters (nothing but white text on black screens back then) who decided to send pictures to one guy's house. He accumulated the pictures into one big montage, numbered the pictures (no names), copied it, and then snail-mailed it to the whole crowd. We spent weeks guessing who was who based on our visualizations of what people looked like. It was just about the most fun I ever had on the Internet. Nobody looked like what people thought they looked like. It was hilarious. A lot of people thought I was the short bald guy (I'm 6'1" and have hair). I guess my online personality comes across as shorter and balder. Why is anybody's guess.
Come on down to San Antonio where the Mexican food is hot, the Margaritas and beer are cold, and the Germans and Greeks provide great entertainment!
Sounds awesome, but I'm working in Omaha these days. A pork festival sounds awesome, though. Headed to Wichita KS for barbecue this weekend with my oldest boy.
Some day, I get my life in order, and I'd love to take roadtrips to meet my IHTM compadres.
And I got your point about his being in uniform, was looking for the spot where our thought processes split and you showed me. Tightened up my take on the issue. See how that works john?
OH and don't forget the Preble Co. Pork Festival this weekend in Eaton, OH. if you're close. It's about 45 min. away and I go every year. Kinda hokey, but the FOOD, oh man can't wait.
...like they respected it, once the thrill was gone and they were back to politics as usual.
There's a fine line between having free speech in a free society, and allowing your news media to serve as the intelligence gathering arm of the enemy. I don't think that the news editors have a problem with the pressure -- they can handle it, as it is all part of their job.
Verily sir, i am but a high functioning retard, incapable of considering the nuances of matters
Forsooth and gadzooks!
What's worse is that it perpetuates the lie that the film is the provocation for the mayhem in the Middle East. Scapegoating the film is the height of appeasement and it makes things even more dangerous both from a constitutional POV here and the spread of radical emboldened jihadis there.
And ohhh, how the media and Obama want to believe this lie.
At the very least, the Libyan attackers just used the protest mob as cover for their assault. Its Al Qaeda vengeance, called for by Zawahiri himself, for the recent death of his #2 in Yemen by U.S. drone strike
Absolutely. I know for a FACT that this is BS. I was up very late on 9/11 (early 9/12) freaking out over the breach in Egypt, when the very first word of this film came through. I went and tracked it down on you tube. There were only a few thousand hits on it. I KNOW this, because there were 3 different versions, and 2 of them only had a few hundred hits each. This one had the most, and it was about 2700. I watched about 3 minutes of it and was amazed at how stupid and poorly made it was.
Anyway - there is NO WAY that a movie with under 3000 hits in the months that it was up could have caused all of that! I bookmarked the movie to show my husband how stupid it was and went back today and checked it - about 1.5 MILLION hits now.
Anyway, it is absolutely a red herring. I know I can't prove it, but I KNOW what I saw.
I've often said, the only thing wrong with the Crusades is that they left a few Muslims alive.
But the Liar In CHief said they were trying to "help" him. Gee the MSM goes apeshit screaming (for the idiots) about another Romney gaffe. "He said, 'Good Morning", what an idiot, it wasn't morning it was 10 am, that is forenoon."
I'd call this "help" comment a huge gaffe especially if the sexual assault it correct. (We will probably never know for sure because the Corrupt-MSM (one word) will do everything to cover it up. The MSM has been, of course, bleating the "official" line. And they wonder why we call them the state controlled media.
Yup! I just broke my ban on watching CNN and they just keep bleating on and on about that stupid movie. When I first saw it on You Tube (on 9/11, when it first was named) it only had a few thousand hits. I have no idea how many there are now, but I promise you it was nowhere near enough to have been responsible for these attacks. As I said - it was MADE by an Egyptian living in the US (a Coptic Christian) and has nothing to do with the US. But this is the official "party line", so they keep at it.
At LEAST the media is now reporting on this. Maybe the pop-culture Americans will wise up and see how much we are at risk.
The MSM has been ostriches with their head in the sand! I have been trying to make a difference on Twitter, and just hit some kind of limit for re-tweeting. This has GOT to be our number 1 concern right now. There are reports of the Embassy in Yemen being attacked (one protester killed), the Iranians have staged a protest at the de-facto US embassy in Tehran, and there is supposedly a 1 Million Muslim march scheduled for tomorrow!
Obama was partying at a fund-raiser in Vegas as our country is under attack, and he has the NERVE to criticize Romney for talking about it BEFORE he even criticized the ASSASSINS who raped and murdered an AMERICAN? I am absolutely blown away! And the media is pretending that nothing is happening! Thank God for the UK press and the internet, or all of us would be clueless!
I am shaking too! This is beyond words.
That we are being led by the likes of Pussy Dempsey just adds fuel to the fire. WE MUST CLEAN HOUSE.
Words fail me. RIP, Mr. Stevens. I am sorry that you had to lose your life in such a senseless manner. It is appalling that our sitting wussy pussy POTUS was willing to gamble with your life with his "appeasement" policies.
Karmma
You are right. Jones was a small time preacher who just happened to fit the stero type for the msm of what a preacher should be. He does however have the right to speak his mind and for Dempsey to call him and try to "persuade" him to recant his backing of this film is just typical if a lefty. It's ok for some to speak with conviction (Jerima Wright) while others (Terry Jones) it's wrong and creates issues through out the world. The last time I checked the JCS technically worked for the preacher, not the other way around, YET!
Oh, I believe that Jones has the right to be a kook, just the same as that Westboro Baptist loon does. And, just the same as Muslim extremists do. When their thoughts cross the line into actions, that's when I take issue. (Their rights end where MINE begin).
But Jones is nothing. He is a dime-a-dozen preacher, and the south is full of them. They are "conservative" because there is no party far right enough for them, but they are not like the rest of us. I do not know anyone who would follow a nutcase like him, and I would guess that most of us on this board don't either. As you say, he has been elevated by the media to portray the "average" conservative as a bible-thumping moron.
And, yes. The military's job is to protect us and OUR RIGHTS! How dare this wussy beg an American citizen to stop exercising his rights? If some lunatics in the Middle East take issue with it, then deal with THEM, don't try to strip the rights of a US citizen.
Oh, and by the way - that stupid movie that the administration is trying to pawn off as the accelerant for these attacks on the US embassies? It was made by an Egyptian guy. Why aren't they out attacking their OWN embassies if that is REALLY the reason for assassinating American diplomats?
Sorry, I am absolutely furious today! I don't want to keep posting my rants, but I am so mad, I can barely see straight!
They think the U.S. Government either supports or funds the film. They don't understand that people act as free agents in the West. They are violently demanding we pass laws to prevents such things.
Richard Engel was down there trying to convince them otherwise, on the streets in Cairo, to no avail. The ignorance is very f-cking sad
The masses may be ginned up over the video once seen but an Egyption TV commentator aired it with subtitles and he likely did so on someone's order. To think that this video is the soul reason is as crazy as the actual rioters. Planned as retribution for the administration bragging about killing bin Laden, droning the Number 2 jihadi in Yemen, just another phase of a 30 year war, and mob psychology are what is to blame.
Think about this: many of these governments barely hung onto their regimes and lives last year so having the mob redirected outward is a happy occurrence for them.
I don't thnk the video had anything to do with anything. It was 9/11 and the plan for world dominence must continue. Sort of like we have July 4th to clebrate our dead heroes, they have 9/11 to celebrate theirs. And flick off America at the same time. 2 birds, one stone.
Its my understandong that his own church barely follows him. I believe I saw something about half the congregation leaving BECAUSE he was such a nut case!
So, what, three people left? Leaving his wife, his daughter, and him? I don't lack respect for small church preachers - many of them are very sincere people. But I agree with you, treating a local-loco like this guy as some kind of religious leader is insane.
Or pretending that he speaks for the larger Christian world. THis guy is an old nut job whose real impressed with his own opinion of himself. Period. No influence, no power, minimal following. Just a tired old man trying to grab some glory.
The movie, IMO, is a pretense for the violence. We are seeing the logical conclusion to the 'Arab Spring". The fundamentalists are making their move to take over the entire region.
Another one!! It's like Obama has cornered the market on weak and incompetent people. Apparently never occurred to this guy that the problem might be with the Muslim radicals and not with Youtube videos???
I want to know how and why "pastor jones" has become some important religious leader? He is NOBODY! He is a rinky-dink little nut-case and no one EVER heard of him until the media made a big freaking deal about him burning qurans. Even now, he is irrelevant until the media builds him up again. They need to STOP that now.
And this Dempsey guy is a perfect example of Obama's America. A total weenie! We need a John Wayne at the top of our military, and we get a Pee-Wee Herman!