NYT: Southern Food is Undignified

NYT: Southern Food is Undignified: Having had meals in both New York and New Orleans we’d like to say that the fellows over at the NYT are harboring some sour grapes. However our experience tells us that such a statement would not be entirely correct. Sour grapes would make for a cuisine far more interesting than anything these Times jerks would condescend to partake in.

This post was last modified on January 26, 2021

Kip Hooker:

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  • Well hot dog! But you're down in a Carolina now right? I know its up above there somewhere. Now what gets really good is I've also got South Shore blood. My grandparents had a home in Kingston, which is where we always went for summer vacation, so I always thought of that as more 'home' than Stamford. So I headed there after college, lived down Cape for about 10 years, then ended up in New Bedford, where we've been since '92.

    Way over time to move on though, I'm aching to get up into the New Hampshire Free State!

    • Actually Florida now. We were in Hingham and Cohasset. My father grew up in Hanover. We went to Centerville (near Hyannis) on the Cape growing up.

    • There once was a girl from Nantucket
      Who crossed o'er the sea in a bucket
      But when she got there,
      they asked for a fare
      She grabbed her grey goose
      and said "Pluck it."

    • Despite the libs and the stupid stuff they say and do, New York is great. I would not want to live there but I like the place. Being from Connecticut, I went into the city a lot and some of my best memories are from those times. Boston is another lib center and I like that city even more.

      • Hey sidekick, you from around Stamford way? I grew up there, and yeah, it was great having NYC right there. Not a lot of kids can say they went to see shows on Broadway and at Lincoln Center for class field trips!

        • Hey, PD, yeah part of my childhood was in New Canaan and then up in Hartford County. My family is originally from the Boston South Shore.

      • so did they take all the whores and other sex sellers out of times square?

        to be fair. i would't want to live/visit new orleans either, for the same reason.

    • well, at least it's a prettier cesspool now, than it was in the 60's 70's.

      I reckon some folk don't mind eatin in an outhouse, if it's dressed up and fancy enough.

  • All of us country rednecks and country bumpkins know good food when it is served. The cost does not have to be 100s for a meal. It can be 20 or so. We will offer to feed you when you are visiting, if you break down near our homes.

    So NYT editors, Y'all come on down, pull up a chair, say grace, put on your napkin and enjoy a good home Southern Cooked meal. Shot we'll even let you set at the head of the table. We promise not to load up your plate with possum, grits, greens and jowls.:)

    Oh by the way, we wear shoes and have all of our teeth and are not married to our cousins you arrogant jackasses

    • I'm one Jersey guy who would welcome some well-prepared possum. I'll eat pretty much anything on the other side of primates, backbones optional, and have not yet tried possum.

      "... and are not married to our cousins ..."

      No, we probably have more of that here in Paterson, if you know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge, say no more!

      • Apparantly, you haven't spent much time in Salem County! There's some pretty scary inbreeding going on there! But then, it is a suburb of Philadelphia! ;-)

        • LOL

          Actually I have spent a little time there. Back when I was younger and could still do 100 miles on the bike, I went down there to do the Jersey Devil Century (Century = 100 mile bike ride). It really is a different world down there, and esp if you're from north Jersey.

          Remember - Salem Co. is south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

  • online dictionary:
    DIGNIFIED - dignified - having or showing self-esteem>

    OH CRUD SORRY FOR THE SHOUTING> NYT DOESN"T KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD DIGNIFIED APPARENTLY>

    Thank Goodness... hmmm now my keyboard is working right. i wonder wt hek happened... anyway, Thank Goodness I'm Texan, though now living in OH. I've never eaten in NY, never been there, only reason I ever thought it'd be neat to go there would be to see an actual Broadway production, since I do have Thespian pts. ANYWAY.
    Can't think what I'd do with a copy of the NYT, if I had a bird, I'd not even paper its cage with that. After all, any bird I owned would be sure to have self-respect!
    Also, I cringe at the thought of eating anything from a NY eatery, because no telling what kinda sexual deviant fixed it.

    as far as arrogance and stupidity, well, watching Kitchen Nightmares one time, I saw an episode from New Orleans, excuse me, Nawlens, and the idiot owner was so rude and disgusting toward Chef (behind his back of course, but the idiot musta forgot about the cameras) that I think he'd be right at home with them damn yankees.

    • Word usage and definitions can be tricky things. Sometimes one does not recognize the use of a word in its specialized definition, as opposed to the commonly known one. E.g., the word "moment" has a defnition in physics that is completely different from how it is normally used.

      In this case, "dignified" really means

      "Proper according to standards arbitrarily set by snooty, highbrow elites seeking to support their otherwise unjustifiably high opinion of themselves".

      Okay? Makes more sense now?

      • much better thanks Andre, you're a giant. :D

        I think it had something to do with the cursor being affected by my cut and paste. It weirded me out man.

        • If that happens when you've typed a whole lot of post, and you really don't want to lose it, I've still been able to copy and paste onto a word doc, and save it. The word pgm acts a little funky, but it will still do it.

          I'm sure it would be preferable to re-start in the normal way, so do at least try that before forcing the shut-down by holding down the on key.

    • What actually happened there? It looks like your shift key reversed, and the period key gave you a ">" regardless of shift. This happens (seemingly) out of the blue to my computer. I have tried all sorts of things, and now I have resorted to just holding down the off key until the computer shuts down (forced shut down). I can't even restart/turn off the computer normally when that happens.

  • I'm undignified as all get out and proud of it. I like fried chicken, with the skin on. A big pot of pintos with a chunk of saltpork or a hamhock, and a slab of cornbread makes for good eating.

    Don't them yankees know paper towels were invented because of barbeque sauce? It ain't good barbeque if it isn't smeared all over your face and running down towards your elbows. And never, ever, expect a fork and knife at my house if we are having ribs, that is what fingers are for.

    Lobster from the northeast, dungeness crab from the northwest, oysters and shrimp from the gulf, catfish and bass from the inland waters, it's all good eating. If them New Yorkers want to eat tofu rabbit food let them have it. It just means more for us that really enjoy our vittles.

  • Would some one please be so kind as to enlighten this bitter, Bible clinging, gun owner, here in the middle of fly-over land, as to why I should give a damn about any thing the NYT scribbles about? The people of NYC are to be pitied, as they seem to be suffering from delusions of grandur. To me, NYC is just another big city. They have nothing to offer, that I can not find, admittedly on a smaller scale, here in Minneapolis. Should New Yorkers be offended and insulted by being compared to Mpls then so much the better. I would not even want to visit the place.

    • I have not been to Minneapolis, but I have been to a lot of other big cities - Boston, Phila, DC, Atlanta, Tampa/St Pete, SF, LA, Vegas, Toronto, Nashville, St Louis, OKC, Charlotte, Memphis, Buffalo, Baltimore, Chicago, San Diego, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Indianapolis, Columbus. And just to keep things real, I'm sticking only to cities that are large enough to have pro sports teams.

      Other than Chicago and SF, none of them are even remotely comparable with NYC. It's just not even the same universe.

      The delusions of grandeur in NYC are infinitely bigger.

      • "And just to keep things real, I’m sticking only to cities that are large enough to have pro sports teams."

        Yes, and as we all know, the REAL reason that Des Moines refuses to get a pro football team is because Minneapolis would have to go and get one, too.

        Yep, still here, thwacking the ol' beehive...

        • "Yes, and as we all know, the REAL reason that Des Moines refuses to get a pro football team is because Minneapolis would have to go and get one, too"

          As we used to say in Orange, NJ, where I grew up (that would be "yoostuh")

          Ats cold, man.

          • Yes it is. They've expanded a bit in the last few years. Essex Co got money from the feds on a fairly regular basis over about 10-15 years, up to the start of this last recession. They've dumped a bunch into park improvements, and I've benefited from that a bit. Branch Brook and West Side in Newark, Orange Park, lots of smaller parks, a big dog run enclosure in South Mountain by the deer paddock, and some new exhibits at Turtle Back, along with a pretty spiffy gazebo (a huge thing, not one of your back yard gazebos), with a refreshment stand on the north end.

          • Cool, and good for you!
            I remember that place as one of the best learning experiences from my childhood. I was amazed at the size of the turtles and read everything I could about them at the time.

          • Now who is "we"? Are you in Iowa? Or a Packers fan in WI?

            I find this stuff fascinating, these little geographical rivalries/squabbling. With NJ being the disrespected kid brother of NY or Philadelphia, I'm always curious if anyone else anywhere in this country is even remotely comparable to the position NJ is in. I'm thinking maybe KC, KA vs KC, MO, there might be something.

          • Actually, since Nebraska is without any pro football, we have to engage in these regional thing vicariously. However, it is a lot of fun to get the Vikes fans stirred up, and that kind of stands on its own.

          • We Floridians get more than our share of abuse from everyone it seems. My favorite though is Texas and Oklahoma. Why doesn't Texas fall into the Gulf of Mexico? Because Oklahoma sucks.

          • "Why doesn’t Texas fall into the Gulf of Mexico? Because Oklahoma sucks."

            This has actually been scientifically proven.

          • Good one!

            I do remember one from Cincinatti -

            why did they build the bridge over the Ohio River?

            So Kentuckians can swim across in the shade.

  • My mother, her mother, both of my great-grandparents, my great-great grand parents and beyond are from South Carolina back to the 1700's. I could about live on grits and boiled pinders (peanuts).

  • Southern food?

    I don't know if all of you guys at IHTM are in CA, but let me tell you - as far as the NYT is concerned, edible food ends at the Hudson River. If they even bother to review a great restaurant in NJ, it loses at least a star before the amuse bouche shows up at the table because, well, the damn place is in NJ!! Who the hell puts a good restaurant in NJ? Why would you do that? "The ahhmbiaaaahhnce is awful - I had to drive over the Washington Bridge to get here!" A Sabrett dirty water hot dog cart rates better than anything in NJ.

    You see, according to the NYT, there is no reason to have a good restaurant in NJ because it forces the only people who know anything about food to go to NJ. And that trip alone rates just below cleaning bed pans in a leper colony from their viewpoint.

    Never mind that 3 of the top 10 (or so) richest counties are in NJ. All those people are just a bunch of guidos who made money carting garbage or in construction.

    Sore subject?

    Yeah, a little.

    And remember, from the viewpoint of a NY-er (i.e., a Manhattanite - they consider Queens to be the hinterlands), the world is basically divisible into 3 parts -

    1. New York
    2. The rest of the country
    3. The rest of the world

    • Andre, you are sooooo right! In fact, I would eat at Carrabba's before I'd eat at any place recommended by the NYT.

      • Now I'll admit it - I'm a food snob. But I'm not a people snob. NYC has spectacularly good restaurants. And a variety like nowhere else. I'm dying to get to Vermilion, a Latin-Indian fusion place. It's a tribute to free market competition. You have to be excellent, otherwise you're an afterthought in NYC.

        I don't get into the city all that much to eat any more, since the recession and a stranglehold of regulations have choked the construction industry in NJ, and those places in NY are no nonsense pricey. I've been party to checks in excess of $800 for 4 people (that's pretty much the going rate for 4-star dining in NYC), and that is with one reasonably priced bottle of wine.

        And being a food snob, I am also aware that there are some objective measurements by which I can say that a lot of the really creative things chefs are plating in NYC are really more refined in terms of taste, textures, and appearances than what is broadly referred to as "southern food".

        But I'm sure you can develop a "more refined" way to pepare fried chicken, too. Does that mean KFC should scrap what they're doing and change? (Think "New Coke"). Well, why not? Because their system works, and it's GOOD!!!

        And that is the case with a lot of foods. They should not be changed, because then they will be something else. Southern food is good.

        As the whole country gets wealthier, there are progressively more and more people who are partaking in fine cuisine and wines, and knowing about what they are drinking and eating. The snobby elitists in NYC are realizing that they no longer hold a monopoly on taste. So they are losing (in their viewpoint), their reasons for looking down their nose at "the rest of the country". And they are getting a bit sore about that. So their solution is to insult everyone else more than before.

        • Andre, what is going on with the regulations on construction in NJ? Is it mainly limited to new construction, or remodeling also?
          I will need to know because I am planning a trip North this summer to do a remodel job on a friends house in Ocean County.
          Part of what we will be doing is removing about 1/2 of the windows and closing them over in a front porch to make it more usable, replacing almost all the windows in the house, re-siding the house, and possibly adding/enclosing a back porch/laundry room. I know we'll have to pull permits for plumbing, electrical, and the windows, but I was unaware of changes to the regs, but I have been in FL for over 7 years, so I didn't keep up with NJ codes, etc.

          Thanks for any info you can give me. Forewarned is forearmed.

          • You should be fine. I'm involved with new construction. In that case, what has essentially happened is this:

            Let's say that you invested in a piece of land, maybe as a nest egg for retirement, or to leave something for your kids. What has happened, when you break it down to basic reality, is that your neighbors imposed an open space easement on your property, without you even knowing it. Meanwhile, your property iS zoned for 1/4, 1/2, or whatever- acre sized lots, it is assessed on that basis, and you are taxed that way by the town.

            But when you decide to develop it and realize those profits you thought were there (or sell it to a developer, who never actually buys it, but just gives you a contract to purchase IF this-and-that is approved), you then find out that your neighbors' rights to the view, or their property values, or thier kids' rights to play there, or complete strangers' rights to have 3 less cars on the highway 3 miles away, have superseded any rights you have to that property.

            And even the courts will rule against you - "No, you still own the property, no one took anything from you". Meanwhile, you are sitting on a piece of land you can't sell to anyone for any price.

            Needless to say, the town isn't about to rebate any property taxes.

            Meanwhile, the NJDEP is extending its grubby fingers into progressively more and more land. You can have 1000 sf (31' x 31') of "wetlands", and they can impose a 300' buffer around that and render your property worthless. This is done under the guise of protecting the groundwater - something they will say is to the public benefit - but you will get squat in compensation, since you still "own" the property.

            The DEP can be agreeable with single lot homeowners, but on occasion they can decide to go after you and the next thing you know is you're paying hundreds of thousands to lawyers to defend your basic constitutional rights.

            As for remodeling, there have been some instances of gov't overstepping its bounds, but those were some pretty specific cases, and they probably didn't/don't happen too much.

            What became the "Mount Laurel Decision", came out of a case where the Twp of Mt Laurel, which is mostly a higher-class Philly suburb, decided that they no longer wanted the small black neighborhood in their town, so they rezoned the area for large homes on large lots, and then denied ANY building permits for any improvements at all. Because everyone was now non-conforming, in order to fix your steps, you had to apply to the Board of Adjustment and have pulic hearings, hire attorneys, engineers, and maybe other "expert witnesses". Then they could just say "denied - it doesn't serve the greater good of the community as planned" anyway.

            But like I said, that is rare, if it happens at all any more.

            If your place in Ocean Co. is not on land that was once flowed by high tide - doesn't matter if it was 125 years ago - the state still claims ownership, and you'd have to get a permit from them (if one has not been previoulsy obtained). The problem with the state especially, is that they are a different species. They percieve time completely differently than we do. Next day, next week, 3 months, a year, it's all the same.

            If this is a shore house, DO NOT EVER raise that issue yourself, with anyone.

            But as long as you have a totally conforming lot and house, you should be dealing only with the bldg dept and no other arrogant, self-important snots.

            Now that is not to say that you won't be ready to deck some bldg inspector at times. The main thing is to never get them riled up with statements like "this is a useless requirement, it's stupid". They don't like that and can make your life a living hell if they apply the law/regulations to the tee.

          • Well, hopefully this won't be an issue, but my friends house is a few blocks West of the bay. I doubt if the high tide issue will come up because it is an existing house, so no EPA permits, environmental impact statements, bribes to the zoning comissioner should be needed.
            Thanks for the info. It makes me glad that I sold my vacant lot years ago! I had planned on building there at one time, but turning the property over for more than 125 times what I paid for it 18 years earlier sounded like a good idea at the time. The developer that bought it still hasn't broken ground on his planned development. Probably due to these regulations. Fortunately, there was no out clause in the contract.

          • Then just go about your business normally. Many local gov't people kind of "look the other way" when a single lot owner wants to improve, and don't raise any wetlands or tidelands questions.

            "no ... bribes to the zoning comissioner should be needed."

            meh!

            This is New Jersey, keep in mind.

      • Do you all remember poster a few years ago that read "A New Yorker's View of the United States"? The foreground was Manhattan, then the Hudson River, then desert with cactus and cow skulls, in the lower corner was Miami, and finally in the distance was Los Angeles and the Pacific Ocean. Andre's post reminded me of it because his take on New York provincialism is spot on.

        • I recently read "11/22/63" by Stephen King, which deals with a time traveler attempting to stop the JFK assassination. The protagonist spends a good deal of time in Dallas, Texas, and I finished the book realizing why King sets most of his books in Maine (or, in more recent years, the Florida Keys, as he and his wife have started wintering there): you write what you know, and King clearly hasn't bothered to do any research on Dallas, because he dismisses it as an awful, hateful place, while setting it in "central Texas" and making it full of oil refineries!

          That got the same "WTF?" reaction from me that the first "X-Files" movie did, when they set Dallas, Texas smack in the middle of the desert, with no outlying cities and suburbs. Really? All that money, and you couldn't do a little visual research?

          Years ago, I was working at a company that sent a manager down from a Pennsylvania corporate office to serve as an interim manager until we could replace the one who'd left, and upon her first visit to north Texas (DFW) she was amazed. "This can't be Texas," she said. "You've got trees!" Apparently she'd expected sagebrush and tumbleweeds. Which do exist, by the way...in West Texas. But Texas is a very diverse state in terms of geography, and one part doesn't look like another. And it's hardly fair to judge the entire South by eating at one or two restaurants, but hey, we Southerners are fairly used to being judged unfairly.

          And yeah, I'm really not surprised that someone writing for the NYT would turn up their nose at anything--cultural, culinary, or otherwise--emanating from outside the Big Apple. Eh, their loss. More for us.

          • Another good example of this is the viewpoint that Hollywood (which includes NYC showbiz productions, TV mostly) has on "the rest of the country". Note how whenever there is something going on in a small town, it is always run by a sherriff who resembles a cross between a 3rd world dictator and a cult leader, this "no one gitts out alahve" sort of place. Well, that's because that is what they think small town America is!

            And all Christian preachers are loud, fire-and-brimstone screaming lunatics, having affairs on the side, molesting children, or murdering people. And any land developer is either intentionally polluting or also murdering.

            Because that is what they think reality is.

            There was some elitist highbrow editorialist or news commentator who was lamenting Nixon's victory back in '68 or '72. She was incredulous, and said "I don't know how he could have won. I don't know a single person who voted for him".

            Think about that, in terms of a person's viewpoint of reality.

    • Who is that ugly SOB as your avi? Well, it couldn't be Che Guevera, now could it? Because no decent American would want an avi of a murderous b*stard like that! If you think Che was a hero, you, yourself, are one ignorant SOB!!

      • DUKE! you missed the bullet hole, but i did to until i hung around for awhile. I applaud you sir on your candid, and rather astute comments otherwise!

        :D I bet even Ruben's 'avin a larf.

        • Not very perseptive are you. sorry drb, that's a dt.

          I missed the bullet hole for a Looooooooong time. sure i saw the blood, but I didn't know it was blood, and was surreptitiously trying to decipher what the avi was saying.

          I think i actually had to ask Ruben wth it was, since his comments directly opposed che's ideals. but then i only knew that after i'd hung around for awhile.

          LOL I was pissed to think that I agreed with someone who had a che icon. srsly.

      • I think you overlooked the bullet hole in his forehead... and maybe the blood too. But you're right about Che.

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