With Vaccines, Republicans Are Pandering To The Wrong Fringe

With Vaccines, Republicans Are Pandering To The Wrong Fringe. Evidently being a rich Marin County libtard also gives you medial and science degrees.

Half of the children that attend some schools in Marin (median income: $90,839), the county’s health officer told the New York Times last week, are unvaccinated. People don’t want toxins in their children’s blood.

CO2Insanity: Tired of the CO2 BS and all the other BS in the US and the world.

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    • tox·in/ˈtäksən/noun
      an antigenic poison or venom of plant or animal origin, especially one produced by or derived from microorganisms and causing disease when present at low concentration in the body.

      i've NEVER heard of anybody getting a disease from weed.

      George Washington: The father of our country kept meticulous diaries, wherein he noted “Sowed hemp at muddy hole by swamp” away from the hemp he grew for fiber. “Began to separate the male from female plants at do [sic --rather too late” and “Pulling up the (male) hemp. Was too late for the blossom hemp by three weeks or a month” indicates he was going for female plants with higher THC content. There is also indication he used hemp preparations to deal with his toothaches.
      http://www.hightimes.com/read/11-us-presidents-who-smoked-marijuana

      ANSLINGER (that racist, glory loving, little so-and-so) lied to Congress,

  • Listen, to the anti-20th century vaccine morons here, I'm not trying to argue with you or change your mind. No vaccine will protect you from your stupid. What I am trying to do is if anyone on the fence is reading your posts, that I illuminate your ignorance and try to save some lives.

    What's next, an assault on tap water and sanitation? Someone going to start complaining about the 'iron-horses'. Sweet Allah, you're using a computer with all kinds of EMF, chemicals and sitting in a chair. Go full retard-Luddite and walk to the Amish country and live.

    • "You're using a chair."

      Now THAT'S full retard!

      I once complained about the notion of getting computer chips installed in our heads and was met with "Well, you wear shoes!"

      So If I accept one piece of modern technology I am contract-bound to accept it ALL? Now that's dogma like religion can only DREAM of!

      More proof, if any was needed, that those who worship science are steadfastly opposed to moderation.

      • Having lived in a house with a well, and no.chloine, I am all for chloinating the water. We were getting sick, snd testing the well showed coliform bacteria, which is a canary bacteria, indicating relativly high levels of pathologic bacteria. When ee moved back.intothe city eith chlorinated water, all the mysterious illnesses vanishef.

        • Well, Rose. That is a function of where you lived. I grew up with a well, and never had those problems. I wish I could go back to where I grew up and bottle the water, it was wonderful. We didn't even need to refrigerate the water, it came out of the ground refreshingly cold. There were many beneficial minerals in the water, and it had a wonderful taste. Once I moved to where the water was chlorinated, I grew to hate the taste of water.
          That said, to each his/her own. Whatever is best for you is what you should do. I can understand chlorinating public water supplies, because they often come from less than quality water sources.

          • Don't get me wrong. Initially, I was happy to have well water. Many of my relatives had well water and it was delicious, and somehow more thirst quenching. But I didn't like the repeated illnesses brough on by this well. Much of San Antonio suburbs are built over what used to be ranches and dairies. The risk of contamination iis fairly high. Just saying, a chloinator on the pump would have saved a lot of money, time, and misery.

          • I lived in Joshua Tree, CA, for over ten years. Most of the water in their system is from high desert wells, that had no trace of coliform, or any other bacteria, but the Feds decided our water should be chlorinated. Many of the wells had chlorination systems set up right there, in the desert.

            Said systems got used for target practice on a regular basis. They finally gave up on feeding us poison, and removed the chlorination systems. The population of Joshua Tree was doing just fine, last I heard.

            Flouride is just plain stupid.

      • Keep talking, you aren't winning converts. More stupid please...

        How's that puddle out front tasting?

        • I would have rather had the vaccines for chicken pox, German measles, and mumps than having had to go through them when I was a kid. I am in favor of vaccines, but you aren't going to convert anyone one way or the other, so I wish we would just stop posting these threads, and concentrate on the common enemy, Obama, radical Muslims, and ISIS.

          • I would choose polio, German measles, Hepatitis B, and Tetanus vaccinations. The rest I would skip as not being worth the risk. I might be talked into measles and whooping cough depending on what's going on around me (i.e., if there's a current outbreak). Chicken pox, HPV, and diphtheria you'd couldn't make me take, or make me give my children, if you pointed a gun at me. And I am perfectly content with you making different choices. That's the way it should be in a free society. Smallpox, polio, and German measles are about the only ones where I ever saw a valid justification for mandating the vaccinations for the good of society. The rest of these diseases, I don't see the justification. Just because some bureaucrat at the CDC thinks it would be nifty to eradicate chicken pox doesn't rise to the level of being enough justification for infringing on people's individual liberty.

          • So you are ok with your infant dying of whooping cough? Happened routinely before vaccines
            . Ok with you child going blind? Common sequala to Red Measles. And clearly you aren't interested in grandkids,.because mumps frequently left kids sterile. Chicken pox scarred, caused a loss of work tume for p as rents, and school time for kids. If the managed to not get an infection, they were stillat risk for shingles as as an older adult. The vaccines were developed for a reason. Try listening to the knowledgable people for once.

          • I think you know you're wildly exaggerating when you say measles "frequently" left kids blind. Don't forget, I'm from a generation when everyone got measles, chicken pox, and mumps - our mothers went out of their way to give us the diseases - and I don't know anybody who went blind, or know anybody who knows anybody who went blind, or know anybody who ever heard about somebody who knows somebody who went blind. Mumps can make you sterile, sure, but only if you have reached puberty so you have testicles to sterilize, which is why mothers were sanguine about their young children getting mumps (although I don't remember my mother intentionally infecting me with that one). I enjoyed mumps. It hurt for a while but I hated school and had two brand new Hardy Boys books to read.

            The thing is, it is a parent's job to look at the benefits and risks and decide based on their own family history what is the best choice for their child. If 10% of us decide we don't want the MMR vaccine, the effect on herd immunity will be almost zero. You don't need 100% vaccination rate for herd immunity.

            As I've said to you before, if you and I make competing lists of horror stories, my list with the horror stories from people who were damaged by vaccinations is going to beat yours every time. With something like HPV, where the risk of the vaccination (anaphylaxis, death, cervical cancer, and a host of immune-based inflammatory neurodegenerative disorders) far outweighs the benefit, you're basically talking about risking your child's health so they will not be inconvenienced should they decide to have a wanton sex life. ("Cervical cancer?" you ask. Yes, if a girl was previously exposed to HPV and then gets the vaccine, her chances of cervical cancer go up 45%... something Merck admits but doesn't advertise since the whole point of this vaccination is ostensibly to prevent cervical cancer.)

    • "We're finding an 8-point IQ drop when the serum blood level of fluoride goes from 0.04 to 0.08."

      Those scary words come from a dentist who started looking into fluoridation of drinking water, and started wondering why the FDA requires a warning label on toothpaste about calling the poison center if your child eats any, but we put even higher doses straight into the water that same child is drinking.

      http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/11/dr-bill-osmunson-on-fluoride.aspx

      • The thing about fluoride: There's no point in putting it in the water supply, because it's not in your mouth long enough to do your teeth any good, and it does your teeth no good if you ingest it. It doesn't help us if we bathe in it or water our plants with it.

        It is listed as a developmental neurotoxin. Now, if you have a neurotoxin that is otherwise helpful, you dose it out carefully. You don't dump it in the water supply and HOPE people are getting a proper dose.

        Fluoride is an industrial byproduct. They would get fined heavily if they dumped it in the water, so in a masterfully brilliant move, they got the government to PAY them to dump it. Evilly brilliant!

  • And here's a good one I just saw:

    New England Journal of Medicine: Measles Outbreak in a Fully Immunized Secondary-School Population

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303

    The money quote is pure gold: "We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune."

    Gee! They all had their shots! Who you gonna get mad at now?

    • News flash......

      All the other middle schools that didn't have MMR outbreaks....

      You are dealing with probabilities, and if you read the literature, if you throw in unvaccinated kids in, the out breaks last longer with worse outcomes.

      Just to show how weak this data point is in an argument- this kind of outbreak was soooo rare, that they write a whole paper about it, screened all the kids with blood samples, ask them who they hang out with, when they got their shots, how many shots- all to try to figure out why these isolated cases happen.

      The fact that this study exists shows how how much of a unicorn it is when a couple of kids get sick.

      • Not a "unicorn." Unicorns don't exist. Vaccines that fail and people who get damaged by too many vaccines DO exist.

        It's not a "unicorn"; it's more like a plane crash. Planes are a brilliant invention; they get us from place to place with remarkable speed. So, should we not report it on the rare occasions that they crash? Should we not compensate victims? Should we not investigate why it happened? Should we insult, lie about and roundly humiliate the people who choose not to fly?

        Again: Why is there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, and why is it never mentioned in the media? Why are the compensation cases' results sealed?

        Do you not believe in truth being revealed? In an open marketplace? in corporate accountability?

        The fact that an outbreak can happen even when ALL are vaccinated punches a terrible hole in the media narrative.

  • Marin is a seething hotbed of liberal know it alls. It should be called Rich-prick county. They are liberal and much smarter than everyone else and according to them, their shit don't stink.

  • I'm leery of vaccines as a whole, but with the host of illegals streaming across the border with all these third world diseases I can see their merits. My wife and I are discussing a system to see what we would need to require of our children and hopefully we can at the very least set up a system to draw them out over a longer period and even remove some if possible.

    • Now you're talking. Pick and choose which ones - polio yes (obviously), chicken pox no - draw them out until they're older (don't let them start before the newborn baby leaves the hospital), and I think it was DRB who pointed out here in IHTM that you can demand preservative-free vaccinations instead of stuff preserved with mercury or aluminum. I didn't know that.

      • The wife and I have been discussing home schooling through at least 5th grade in order to ensure they have strong basics and the ability to learn and question on their own, a trait that is seemingly weak in today's youth. We can reassess with our child on public vs homeschool after 5th grade. This will make having a more conservative vaccine schedule safer and we can front load the deadly diseases and get the less fatal or destructive ones later.

        We will also look into the non mercury and aluminum ones as well.

        • The comment Rand Paul made was that he drew his children's vaccinations out until they were older, and didn't allow them to get a whole bunch of them at once. Good for him. What I can't understand is why a comment like that would be considered controversial. He actually felt compelled to publicly get a "booster" shot yesterday to prove he wasn't anti-science. Good grief. To me he just sounded like a responsible parent.

          • Sounds like a parent that cares about their child enough to do the research and not just follow what he is being told to do. I plan to make my decisions in line with a doctor's information put forth to me (any doc that says I have to do it their way will not be the doc for my kids). I'm not anti-vaccine, I am anti massive amounts of poison and toxins at once.

            My mother keeps telling me "you were fine with them" but she fails to see that I received about half what kids now are getting.

    • Plausibly? That doesn't sound definite at all.

      -Better not let your newborn be inside of car because that baby can be killed in a car accident.

      -Better not bathe your baby because he or she can develop an ear infection and possibly die.

    • All medications and treatments have risks. If the risk is higher than the benefit,as in smallpox vaccines, you don't take the treatment or medication. That's why they track anything which might be related to a vaccine. To help evaluate risk vs benefit. And Doctors have been blaming everything under the sun for thE causation of SIDS for some 70 years. The bottom line? We have no idea what causes SIDS.

    • Not only a compensation program, but a compensation program that has awarded tens of millions of dollars and often insists that details of cases be kept confidential. Why would a federal compensation program find it necessary to keep details about vaccination harm from the public's eyes?

      • Yeah, I thought the whole thing about health care was "ACCESS, ACCESS, ACCESS!" But then they keep the vaccination injury compensation program under the radar.

  • I've wondered what will happen since we have removed the evolutionary pressures of selection on humans. The answer is that we get to big for our britches and the next 'culling' will be from kids not being vaccinated and suffering from preventable diseases.

    It's not lions, tigers and bears that will get us, its our our stupidity, but in this case your own 'stupid' hurts your kids.

    • If you're waiting for evolutionary changes from the deaths caused by chicken pox, you're going to be waiting until the Sun runs out of helium.

      Fact is, the decision about whether to vaccinate can be described mathematically - it's a version of The Prisoner's Dilemma - and generally the rational decision in terms of what's best for your child is to skip the vaccination.

        • As I keep telling people, children of my generation were purposely exposed to chicken pox by our mothers. At about age 4, I was taken over to my best friend's house to play with him for a half hour when he had it. My mother's reasoning was, "Let's get it over with before he enters school and let's limit his exposure time-wise so he gets a mild case." Unfortunately, I still didn't catch it, but the fact that mothers were doing this tells you how innocuous the disease is most of the time. When my younger daughter caught it at age 2, she was up and running around the house within 24 hours, covered in pox but otherwise happy as a clam.

        • Actually, it makes them uglier.

          The vaccine actually helps against shingles, which is no laughing matter. I bet if you asked most adults that suffer from shingles if they would gladly have gotten the chicken pox vaccine as kids.

          • Even getting the vaccine nowcan prevent ashingles outbreak. And anyone who has had shingles will tell you to do ANYTHING to avoid getting it.

          • There has been a 39% increase in shingles cases in the last 18 years and people are suggesting that it is being caused by the introduction of the chicken pox vaccine. The theory goes that actually getting chicken pox gives you a stronger immunity against the virus than the vaccine, so people are thus more susceptible to it later. Naturally, the vaccine makers are going berserk trying to disprove that connection, publishing studies left and right that say no, that's not the reason. I am highly suspicious of the coincidence and highly suspicious of studies funded by vaccine makers that conclude their vaccine is not causing that coincidence.

          • yeah, well, whatever, JP...I got the chicken pox not once but twice as a kid and still got the shingle as an adult. So I say life ain't fair!

    • In every outbreak we've had in this supposed "rise of diseases we thought we had conquered" the numbers are insane: In some cases we find that 97% of those getting the diseases ARE vaccinated. Then the press and the "vaccinate your kids or you're a bad parent" people start yelling about the unvaccinated - as if that 3% of people were the problem.

      San Diego: Whooping Cough outbreak: 87% of cases were vaccinated.

      Influenza outbreak on USS Ardent: 99% of cases were vaccinated.

      Ohio mumps outbreak: 97% vaccinated.

      California whooping cough outbreak: 91% vaccinated.

      And the headlines? "Vaccine refuses fuel outbreak!" This is why I hate the media!

      Furthermore, I'm sick to death of these f*cking doctors telling us to "be good parents" and vaccinate... then they walk into the next room and perform America's abortion #60,000,000. Screw you, doctors! You think we're so advanced? "Oh, people used to die of these diseases!" And then you slaughter 60,000,000 children?

      • You don't seem to understand how statistics work. The vaccinated population is far greater than the unvaccinated population. Someone in this thread already state that getting vaccinated doesn't make one 100% protected. Therefore, it isn't too surprising that those who got the whooping cough

        According to the link below, " The risk of whooping cough was 20 percent higher inside a vaccine exemption cluster than outside of one, according to the study"
        Source: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2013/09/30/whooping-cough-outbreaks-tied-to-parents-shunning-vaccines

      • You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how vaccines and medicine work.

        What you are in essence saying is that vaccines don't work, which means, polio, small pox, chicken pox and MMR all for some reason went away unrelated to vaccines. That is crazy, you realize that?

        Think of it this way. When CCW gets passed, crime- especially street crime goes down- incontrovertible fact. Is that because everyone has a gun? No, it's because a critical number of people have guns that makes strong arm assaults not worth it. You benefit from others having guns.

        It is similar with vaccines. Not every dose given is effective, but because everyone gets vaccinated, the population is protected. Any single person not getting vaccinated or not being effectively protected isn't an issue, because the disease doesn't have enough susceptible hosts to spread. The percentage of people who mount an effective defense after vaccination is largely fixed, what is changing is the number of people who don't get vaccinated.

        Basically, if you don't get your kids vaccinated, you are a free-loader on the collective defense that mass immunization provides. Just as CCW doesn't protect us from all crime- if these diseases start spreading more, don't expect me to step in with my CCW and save your ass. You have been warned about the potential threat. Arm yourself, or end up crying in hospital.

        It's that simple.

        Wouldn't be interesting if we find out that vaccine effectiveness went down because we took out the good preservatives.

        • In the cade of MMR, it is a relativrly new vaccine. We have not established if it confers lifetime immunity, or if boosters should be recommended. As I have noted before, adults are not routinely vaccinated for pertussis, so I.am.not sure how their vaccination status relates to increase in the disease. And flu is always iffy. This year, the predicted strain in the vaccine did not appear in most cases. As much more virulent strain has been the cause of most infectiond, and noone was vaccinated against that. One has to be readonable, know the facts, and understand thst EVERY.medical intervention has to.be evaluated in a risk vs benefit conversation. I had chicken pox as a child, which.puts me at risk for shingles. I have a compromised immune system, so.after some research and a conversationn with my docs,.the recommendation was not to.take the vaccine. It has not been shoen to be effective in solid organ transplants. Other people my age might benefit greatly from avoiding shingles, which is extremely painful.

          • i've been seeing the rather graphic shingles commercials recently. I hope you never get them. I hope I never get them, though I'm in a low risk demographic, one never knows!

    • We need to start allowing the stupid to die off. Sadly this in particular will hurt the kids of the stupid, not the truly stupid themselves. They will keep getting someone else to take care of them...

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