We don’t mean to get ahead of ourselves here, but we’re willing to run the risk.
When the Democrats lose by historic margins in November, do you think we’ll be bombarded by broadcasts and articles saying, “Democrats must move to the right to survive” like we were told “Republicans must move to the left to survive” after the last election?
If not, what do you think the media’s message will be?
This post was last modified on August 29, 2010
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You can't taunt us like that and not give up the goods....
Please??? Pretty please?? super pretty please??? With sprinkles?? And whipped cream?? And a cherry on top???? *gives editor Bambi eyes*
Oops, David went over the line. Bye. Bye.
Did you finally ban that little leftist pimple?
prelcat: I responded to you both in the same comment. About GW being ridiculed in the press: You compared the cartoons of Hirohito with those of Bush and the liberal outrage if Obama were to be portrayed like that and chillie willie commented the (media)war on Bush, his articulation and the cartoons amongst other things.
2 posts, very similar points.
In the 2nd paragraph, I express my frustration for getting told off because I keep mentioning what Bush did and the next 2 posts (yours and chillie willies) are very much about Bush.
Get it? Sparky?
Yeah. "The 2001 election" was in 2000, i know.
chillie willie: The 2001 election was fixed. That´s been proven, time and time again. The whole world was stunned by that and USA managed to embarrass herself by letting that happen. It didn´t get any better when it dawned upon us all what kind of person he was and how easy target he was for the media, comedians and the opposition. The right is trying to convince the world that Obama is a dumb, elitist, racist. An ignoramus. You´ve got "fighting fire with fire" mixed up with "barking up the wrong tree".
I´m not the one who tries to erase the 8 years of Bush and even the criticism he had to endure while in office but I´ve just been told, about 4 times in this forum alone, to leave it. So what will it be? Because we can´t talk about the flak that Bush got without bringing forth the reasons for it, can we?
I don´t have any problems with making fun of the leaders of the world but pointing out how dumb an intelligent man is, isn´t working. That´s just dumb.
The testing and provoking achieved just what I wanted. I guess many got provoked but the sensible people rose above it and had an "on-topic" discussion with me. I´ve been insulted and called many things here and that´s ok. As long as I am allowed to defend myself and choose what level I want to debate on. I´m shutting out rude people when I want to discuss politics. You don´t have to debate with me. Those are some of our rights in a forum.
The camels? Now that I HAVE given Omar an answer, I´ll show you what I meant. Watch the whole clip, it´s funny and takes only 4 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/user/RayWilliamJohnson#p/search/4/GQkYjDeUq10
The name of this site should be ihateobama, hateobama, antiobama, dontvoteobama, upyoursobama or impeachobama but those were already taken, I guess. If you read through the posts on this site, even the articles put out by the site itself, most of them has little if nothing to do with the liberal media and its bias but more about how to ridicule and mock Obama and the left. Not even the 1st post on THIS topic had anything to do with the media bias. No, this site is dedicated for Obama-bashing. Which is OK, as long as you don´t pretend it to be something else.
Finally: Lets all agree on that the media on both sides are biased but the best countermeasure is not, I repeat NOT another biased website.
The best way to counter biased opinion is by finding and telling the truth.
Ferryman: The camel thing is what I was referring to - just that what I have seen is only the angry camels in the car, not the other mumbo jumbo and it definitely was a "WTF" moment.
The Gore/Bush election fiasco is a tired old debate and depending upon your perspective can be "proven" time and time again either way. Can we agree to disagree on that one and move on?
I personally do not find Obama as offensive as a lot of people on the right do, nor do I think he is stupid. I disagree vehemently with his policies and the direction he is steering the ship. I wish he would spend more time on Foreign Policy where I believe he could do some real good for not only the United States, but the rest of the world - I do not believe Hillary is up to the task at hand - He seems to spend the majority of his time dismantling capitalism and his group of economic advisers appear to struggle with the basic concepts of free enterprise. Real, solid growth of the economy increases the GDP thereby lowering the deficits. Growing the government only serves to hamper free enterprise and retards the growth of the economy. This is basic economics 101 stuff and I am probably preaching to the choir.
This country is in a financial mess and there really are no easy solutions. How we got here is certainly debatable and people on both sides of the aisle believe they possess the true knowledge and the "proven" facts that determine it was this guy or that administration who is to blame. I personally feel that while some of the blame can and should be placed on past and present presidents, the lions' share has been effected via bad leadership in the Congress - over decades, not just the last few years.
Congress makes the laws and enacts the legislation and right now, they have this country split down the middle ideologically, which I believe is where they want (need) us minions to be. Keep the people arguing over Bush did this and Obama did that and they won't pay as much attention to us. This way they keep their power base, limo rides, kick ass health care and family jaunts to the Caribbean - all on our dime.
Anyway, I digress - you certainly have livened this place up as of late, you have made some valid points, however you tend to debate the debate a little too much (in my opinion, of course).
Where do you come off saying Obama is dismantling capitalism? Please give me an example. And if you say healthcare reform you are completely wrong. Where else do people pay thousands per year for NOTHING? Where else do people pay for years and then when they need coverage they get canceled. Insurance reform is not dismantling capitalism it is making it fair to the people who pay.
Congress does not have this country split down the middle. IMO it is the liar republicans and the ignorant masses that blindly follow them. It is FOX news and the pile of lies they spew everyday. IMO this is what is splitting this country down the middle.
You seem, more willing than most on your side, to actually debate properly and I applaud you for that. But when you say ridiculous things like Obama dismantling capitalism and congress keeping the country split you sound like a Faux News Brain-washed idiot.
Sorry but that seems very true to me.
Obviously no one has explained the concept of insurance to you. It is not a savings account. It is legalized gambling. You are gambling that you may need it, the insurance company is gambling you won't. If you go a lifetie of paying insurance premiums, and never have to collect on the insurane, I'd say you were pretty lucky overall.
All of the wailing and gnashing of teeth aside, the election of 2000 was controversial only in that the man won the popular vote by an rch but ran afoul of the electoral college. In the definition of our election laws, that was handled correctly -- the electoral college was set up to rectify the undue influence of more populated states over lesser populated states. It is not a direct popularity contest. Being runner-up sucks, but his behavior afterwards was mostly inexcusable whining, especially dragging it out into the international arena. He quite simply did not act with anything resembling the dignity of the office of the president requires. If an election were held six months after that event, Bush would have won a majority because of that -- he did act with more dignity (though not a whole lot more -- neither was that hot of a candidate, both were an excellent case in point that our political parties like to pick losers and imbeciles). I actually think Douglas Adams was right in that all the noise and chaos of presidential elections serves as a distraction from the real power plays going on.
In a more perfect nation, possibly a runoff should have been ran. But that is how the laws are. Feel free to change them afterwards. Or not -- I, from a state with a smaller population, feel pretty good about the Electoral College. Just because it worked against you in 2000 doent't mean that it can't be made to work for you in a later election.
It is disengenuous to claim the election was 'stolen' -- we are after all a nation of laws, and some are better than others, and this election was resolved in a court of law. Not liking the result just means exactly that you were frustrated and unhappy with the result, but doesn't mean that anything was stolen.
I don't feel it was a battle of good over evil -- there has been bad behavior on both sides over the years, naturally I remember mostly the Democrat side because it was my ox that got 'gored'. LBJ has been characterized as a Texas ballot-box stuffer from way back, and during the 1960 election, ballot boxes from Republican precincts in Chicago caught fire mysteriously. It was JFK's blessing (and also his curse) that he acted with presidential integrity afterwards, and that alone kept people satisfied with the results.
In a better year, the candidate wins a large enough majority of votes that stuff like this is inconsequential, and while I understand your frustration, why didn't he get enough of a majority that he could have won the Electoral College? As I recall, it was statistically insignificant -- well within the margin of error, and battles over 'hanging chads' and such are less intelligent than battles over absentee ballots -- if a person can't muster the strength and intelligence to poke the hole in their ballot, they're well into their dotage, and G0d alone knows what they really meant.
Essentially, that election could have just as well come down to a coin toss -- would people still be whining about their 'stolen' election if they'd lost the toss? I'd have to say yes.
Gore was just as uninspiring a political hack as his opponent, and the only reason he really lost was because he was unable to inspire enough people to get a real margin. You can throw all the lawyers you want at the problem, and all's you will do is irritate the electorate -- Al Franken's chances of a re-election are going to show that in just 4 more years. People don't like to think their election was decided by lawyers.
Is there any cliche MORE trite than.....
It is what it is
Not to a lefty liberal, no. I wouldn't expect that it would.
I'm looking for the posting that claimed that Bush did everything right, that there was no deficit before Obama, no corruption. I can't seem to find it. What we're upset by is the record setting levels that Obama has taken things to.
I´ll lend you my attention, but it´ll be at 0% interest unless you start reading the posts. At least the ones you comment on. Your post doesn´t make sense.
Here's what I know: I live & work in a very liberal town. So far, though not to my face, I've been called quite a few names. Only a couple of people know my political leanings, and they were not the people who called names. They were, apparently, very liberal people who, for whatever reason, thought they'd complain about conservatives to anyone nearby who could hear...don't even know what prompted the diatribes. They did not know that they had a "crazy right-winger" or a "xenophobic hillbilly" in their midst. However, if one were to ask anyone at my place of work if they'd ever been directly or indirectly called a name by me, they would not even know why you were asking.
My point exactly, Jane. You live in a town where you´re the odd one out. I´m visiting a forum where I´m in the same situation. Can you blame those people that have been here before me, for leaving?
I admit, I DID open provocatively, that was to test the forum and to let everyone know where I stand. I can leave and never look back. If I were to move to a conservative town, do you think I´d last a minute with this attitude? Of course not. I´d do what you do. Lay low and tolerate the backstabbing.
Ferryman, what one does hope is that one day, p'raps soon, you'll come to realize that you were wrong.
Then again, you may be all for bigger government, more intrusion, more control.
I collect a paycheck from the government, courtesy of the Army, but I am absolutely against what our so-called political leaders are doing.
They are wrecking our country piece by piece and they (Pelosi, Reid, Obama et al) expect thank yous while they fracking do it!!!!!!!
You may like what they are doing, and if that is the case, don't expect hugs and well wishes from the majority here.
The country was running like clockwork before Obama took office, wasn´t it? There was no deficit, no debt, no big government, no wars and no intrusion during the 8 years before Obama, were there?
I´m not saying that Obama, his administration or the democratic party are doing everything right. Most liberals doesn´t say that everything the conservatives did/does is wrong either. But way too many republicans are convinced that everything this administration does is wrong and bad for the country.
Bigger government? It grew more during W than it has grown in the preceding 50 years.
Intrusion and control? Give me a break! When did you last fly internationally? It takes an hour to get through airport security. Just to mention ONE SMALL aspect of the Patriot Act. Advocated, implemented and signed by who?
W! That´s who.
Yeah...for the millionth time, it's all Boosh's fault, the "last 8 years"...we get it...
Is that all you can come up with? :-/
It's 2010. What's done is done. We need to repeal and roll back, not only from "the last 8 years", but from long before that too. But this "it's Boosh's fault" argument doesn't really solve anything, does it?
So much for a "debate"...repeating the same sentences that the talking heads on TV and the media keep repeating ad nauseam is not "debate"...
It doesn't really sound intelligent at all...repeating the same things handed down from the Ministry of Propaganda over and over again...
Joseph Goebbels would be proud.
I´m onboard now and have limited access to internet. Sorry for the delay.
One of the most used counterarguments of the republicans is the sarcastic phrase "It´s Bush´s fault". You say that because you have heard it all too often and are sick of it.
Meanwhile, according to you guys, Obama can´t do ANYTHING right. There´s not ONE thing that the current administration has done that you are willing to praise. If Obama sits, he´s lazy, if he stands he´s elitist. If he walks away he´s avoiding, if he comes closer he´s confronting. Because he´s smart, you insist on calling him dumb. He´s not black enough, not white enough, wasn´t poor enough, was too poor, is too young, too skinny, ugly, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
The deficit is at an all time high and the republicans keep saying that it´s Obama´s fault. How the hell is it Obama´s fault?! How can a $13 Trillion deficit, accumulated before Obama took office be his fault?! The Bush administration is responsible for most of that deficit and if you don´t want to hear about it, don´t bring it up and especially don´t blame anyone else. You wouldn´t have blamed McCain...
Obama gets criticism for not moving the detainees out of Gitmo fast enough. That´s like me slapping someone in the face and criticizing him for having red cheek! He didn´t fill up Gitmo with those people. They could just as well have been put in Supermaxes from the beginning. But the Bush administration had their reasons, they said. Although the whole world protested, Bush did it and now, here we stand. Even those detainees who WEREN´T terrorists, sure are hell bent on revenge now, aren´t they?
It might be convenient to "forget" the Bush years but even if we do that, will the consequences of those terms go away too? We can dissect the Clinton years but the current President is Obama. And we can´t get from Clinton to Obama without passing by Bush.
No, the "Bush´s fault" argument doesn´t solve anything. Neither does "Obama looks silly on a bike", "Obama is a Muslim" or "Obama is a commie".
But that´s what you keep saying. Over and over again. THAT would make Goebbels really proud.
Stop blaming Obama (or anyone else) for the mistakes Bush did and I won´t tell you "It´s Bush´s fault".
Sort of like how GW was a stupid chimp, right? For eight years we had to listen to that crap day in and day out - so join the club. By the way, the 13 trillion you mention is the cumulative debt the government has incurred - not the deficit. The deficit reflects the amount of money the government overspent respective of GDP. The 2008 deficit was 455 billion - 2009 it was 1.400 trillion and 2010 it is projected at 1.350 trillion. That's quite a jump in overspending and I suppose one could argue that it was the "chimp" who screwed everything up, but in reality, Congress makes the budget, not the President, so it is neither Bush's or Obama's fault. The last I looked, the democratics have controlled both houses since 2006. So, just as you wish for blame to stop being placed on Obama (or anyone else) how's about you stop blaming Bush and start looking at the real culprits - the Congress of the United States.
http://www.cbo.gov - that's a link to the Congressional Budget Office -
I do want to point out one thing about the "chimp" thing. The first thing you have to do when you want to incite a war is to de-humanize your opponent.
Look at all the cartoons of Hirohito during WWII, for example.
Now compare to the cartoons that were all over the american media, and ask yourself if they were cartoons of Obama in the same mode, what would the level of liberal rage be?
I do not agree with all Bush did -- but he was the victim of a very long and well-planned out smear campaign (JournoList, anyone?), and whether you agree with him or not, what was done to him was dehumanizing. It made me ashamed of my friends in the newspaper business.
So this treatment of the current administration is payback for the way the previous was treated? That´s mature.
I just had to defend the reason why I bring up Bush now and again and in the 1st line in the very next post I read: GW! I´ve noticed that you barely bother skimming through my posts before replying but for God´s sake! At least read thoroughly what your own peers write, i.e. what I just answered!
Yes, I know I screwed up the difference between deficit and debt. Sorry, it´s an honest mistake. Those things happen when you´re pressed for time.
You know, sparky, you replied to me, not chillie willie -- and so this is germane. WTF? My response was about the dehumanizing campaign agains GW that has been deployed in the media, cautioning everyone against it in general. I went into the obvious bias in our media in tolerating it, and how if it was done to Obama, there would be outrage.
If your response was to me, then you read a whole lot of stuff into it that wasn't there. Channeling my ex lately?
If your response was to chillie willie, then you should try responding to the appropriate comment, or risk looking like you are unable to either read simple directions or control your mouse.
Another really quick point, the name of this site should clue you in on what the topic of discussion/debate is here. No real need for further explanation...is there?
Agreed, It is silly to compare the treatment of one administration to justify the treatment of another, but just try to make an attempt to look at it from my perspective:From the day GW was nominated as the Republican candidate the msm began its onslaught; citing GW’s malapropism’s and lack of articulation as an indication of stupidity while attempting to display AG as the smart one – (the smart one who couldn’t pick Thomas Jefferson out in a line-up of rocks) – the smart one who circumvented the rules of order in presidential debates – the smart one who tried to circumvent the rules of order (and law) in the Florida recount fiasco. Yes, GW was stupid and AG was so smart and then the stupid one “stole” the election.
The war against GW then accelerated with earnest, the cartoons of chimpanzees and Alfred e. Newman, the landslide of books, movies and op-eds depicting the Bush administration as being corrupt – the racial depictions of Condi and Colin, the hollyvoid egoheads coming out of the rocks smattering us with their wisdom and political acumen. (I’m not a real president, but I play one on TV). Bitter politicians, former presidents and more hollyweirdos running about the planet disavowing, disapproving, and dishonoring the United States; on foreign soil, no less. This list goes on and on …How convenient it is now to erase that from our collective memories, to act as if the higher ground has been obtained. To now feel secure in crying foul because BO looks like a geek on a bike or struggles with the gate/umbrella physics concept – oh the humanity! How dare these nasty, predominantly white people slander this most- smartest guy ever to grace the halls of the White House. How dare they point out his shortcomings. How dare these hate mongering, racist Bible-thumping rednecks have the audacity to even think ill thoughts about the second coming…how dare they!
And finally, I have read your posts thoroughly, not just a cursory glance - there is most definitely an underlying theme of Bush dislike...and that is okay, if that is how you feel I have no beef with that...what I do have a problem with is the "higher ground" tact that you walked in here with. If you want a good solid debate don't start off by "testing the forum" with "provocative" statements that only succeed in pissing people off.
By the way, the two angry camels thing - are you referring to that video that used to fly around the net? Please expound a little as I don't know if I get why you referenced it.
I´ll give you a reply when I catch my breath. Do you understand what I actually mean by that?
I think you do...
Two angry camels in a car.
That would certainly make for one heck of an interesting ride.
You seem like the knd of guy who farts right before getting out of a crowded elevator - not that there's anything wrong with that...
Actually, I try to do that in long lines at the grocery store. . . . .
I did it in the beer line at a heavy metal concert, and it stunk so bad that everyone behind me went to another line.
I laughed until I cried. It was almost as funny as when I farted and the dog left the room.
I'm not a very nice person.
Awww...I think you're a pretty cool dude.
Wait just a minute! The earth is ROUND????!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
Thank God you came along to straighten us out.
Oh, and I thought you left with a "TA", "sailor" ... hahha.
OMG! Another "round-earther"!
*scorn*
Careful you two, or I´ll bring down the mods on you. :)
I left, had a good nights sleep, went for a spin with my family and came back. Now I´m watching the game and having a laugh.
Your point?