This is too bizarre to be believed, but we’re assured that it’s true. Al-Qaeda now publishes a women’s magazine that offers beauty, fashion and suicide bombing tips.
We couldn’t make up something this bizarre if our lives depended on it. And they may.
The Daily Mail UK has the publishing particulars:
Dubbed ‘Jihad Cosmo’, the glossy magazine’s front cover features the barrel of a sub-machine gun next to a picture a woman in a veil.
There are exclusive interviews with martyrs’ wives, who praise their husbands’ decisions to die in suicide attacks.
The slick, 31-page Al-Shamikha magazine – meaning The Majestic Woman – has advice for singletons on ‘marrying a mujahideen’.
Readers are told it is their duty to raise children to be mujahideen ready for jihad.
And the ‘beauty column’ instructs women to stay indoors with their faces covered to keep a ‘clear complexion’.
They should ‘not go out except when necessary’ and wear a niqab for ‘rewards by complying with the command of Allah Almighty’.
… A trailer for the next issue promises tips on skin care – and how to wage electronic jihad.
We have no smart ass closing line for this story. We are mute with amazement.
Source: Daily Mail UK
This post was last modified on March 16, 2011
View Comments (57)
Deb,
I agree. I just wanted to add that ALL the commandments are meant for OUR good, in addition to the obediece required to G-d. G-d requires worship, because He is G-d and He is awesome, however in addition the commandments are meant to make our lives on Earth better. If a person decides not to believe or honor G-d they will undoubtely worship another god, idol or deity. It could be anything: money, power, food/appetite/desires, the Earth, sex, satan, animals, oneself. G-d is just making a point that it is better to worship Him than to worship OTHER gods and idols, because a lot of the idols that people end up worshipping end up eating the person alive and of course leads them to a crappy after life. Or else the idol ends up dissapointing the person and of course the person may never be satisfied.
The next time a ho eyes my husband, but she realizes that he is married to me and she backs off that is obviously a good thing for me, and it is awesome for another female when I decide not to pursue her husband.
My point is that if people were to follow through with the Commandments this world would be a better place. However if people want to pursue other gods, hopefully they will still attain to the rest of the commandments for theirs and everyone else's good. Like you said the Sabbath was actually created for humans and their enjoyment.
Alien posted: "Not only do you completely misapphrehend me, you’ve broken your own prohibition on talking to me. If I recall, you called me useless and requested I not speak to you. However, i’ll stand by my right today, since you were no doubt a child whle I was in uniform defending this country. Useless, indeed."
If that is true, I don't recall. I tend not to think of the people that I have had past arguments with. It seems though that they do tend to remember me. You may have to forgive me, but your post was so hilarious, that I just had to comment. However you are right, if there is such a prohibition on my part, I will make a note not to talk to you in the future.
I am glad that you wore an uniform and went somewhere to defend the country. That doesnt mean that I will bow and kiss your ass. Yes if you are in your 40's up I am a child to you, however that doesn't make you better than me. You can have the age it doesn't mean that you have the wisdom.
Since I have a prohibition as you say it, I won't bother wasting my time reading the rest ofyour post. It will be as before then I will make a mental note, not to talk to you again.
have a nice life.
Please do so :) I'm sure you'll forget again in 3 months. Of course you bail out when you can't back up your points. I believe you told me to Have a Nice Life last time, and it has been nice. Thanks :)
U are right I will forget about you, because you are unimportant and our tetes are tetes are meaningless to me in the end. People like you who are unconnected to me and unimportant to my life I forget rather easily. So if I make the mistake of posting to you, you can just ignore me.
I was right... you are old but not wise.
This is the video advertised at 3am on the AQ channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwIy_7Jg8uM
But this is the religion of peace and understanding, of acceptance and tolerance, and above all, of the respect and love of women. Yeeeaaaah Right.
I laughed then I realized that this wasn't a joke...
It doesn't make any sense when you are going at it from a normal brained perspective, however I am sure this makes perfect sense and it is the acceptable next step in the jihad movement. Jihad has to be glamorized and sexified (so to speak) and the way to do is through women. If women are found to be okay to this, it may incentive certain men to get into that "line of work". The problem is that these men are doing this line of work they may not come back leaving a widow and orphans behind which is irresponsible, but I guess in the warped world of jihad it is all good.
Since the women of this cult routinely inspire their children to become ordinance, I'm betting they have no problem with any of this.
For some time I've said we should use every forensic tool at our disposal to identify suicide bombers after the fact, and kill every living relative we can find. I'll bet mom and dad would think twice if they knew they were going to be vaporized.
At last, someplace to get an answer to that age old question, "Does this suicide belt make my ass look big?".And then there will no doubt be parenting articles like, "Kids, They Blow Up So Fast!"
LOL!!!
Next month's issue includes; "Dirty Bombs and Dirty Men - the life of a terrorist's wife" and " What Does That Goat Have That You Are Missing?"
LMAO
We should all chip in on a subscription for Keith Ellison's wife
Can't do that! It would be pretentious; he has yet to martyr himself. Nest month's issue!
Holy crap! What in the name of god is that? And here I was thinking that the leftist extremists was the kings of weird propaganda. This is beyond everything!
Oh and just for the laughs, could some one please sign up Pelosi for a subscription?
And the Kooks and Lapdogs wonder why we cant understand that it is the religion of "peace."
It's simple really, people who have no faith and therefore no morality have no idea what religion even is. Relativism is so entwined in there social, political, moral, ethical, you name it, code of existance that they are blind to true religion or true morality. Since each is an island unto him or herself, what happens outside their personal sphere of affairs is of no concern to them. Since they get along with their atheism they expect the rest of us are doing the same and they get upset with us if we don't. Can't have us religious bigots rocking the boat. Being the cowards they are, it's easier for them to get rid of those of us who don't present a real problem; it's much easier to do that than it is to deal with a real problem, like islamic extremism!
Do you really need Faith to have morality?
Hisham is doing this right, but I just wanted to add my two cents.
Humans must have faith in something or someone in order to base their moral compass. There has to be a reason why some people choose to do evil and others choose to do good. Faith in someone or something doesn't always come in benevolent forms, mind you. Someone's morals may not necessarily be the same as someone else's morals... because what is moral to one is not necessarily moral to another or someone may create their own set of morals apart from what it is considered culturally the norm. We live in the age of moral relativism, where there isn't one set of morals that everyone chooses to follow. That is one of the reasons, why there is so much conflict in this world. It is my opinion and my opinion alone that if people were to follow AT LEAST the Ten Commandments this world would be so much the better for it.
I choose not go on a murdering rampage because I respect life, I believe G-d is the only one that should have that power to take life. However, I do believe that if someone comes against me to deprive me of my life and I have the means to get to him or her first I will take their life. I will be sorry that it had to get to that point, but I would still do it. I also belief that some people do deserve to die in order to pay for crimes committed against others. I also belief that some wars are necessary and that will include loss of life even in some cases innocent lives. My faith here is that I must respect other people's lives because I want my life to be respected. It is based on a faith in a Higher Power whom should be the only one to give and take life. I do not want to displease Him by violating one of His laws and loose my place in His Kingdom. However, in order to preserve my life it is my faith that I have reason to protect it if someone wants to take it either through war or through circumstances surrounding perhaps a crime on my person. It is complex, but I believe it is valid to say that if no one has a problem with me, I dont have a problem with them because I am not looking to violate G-d's law.
Faith can take the form in believing in oneself. A person who only beliefs in himself has two ways to go: 1. Uses others to get what he or she thinks he or she needs/wants regardless of what it does to others (good or bad). 2. Realizes that they themselves are very important and in order to preserve themselves from the evils of the world, they realize that they must treat others the way he or she wants to be treated. Without any regard to anyone higher than themselves, basically respecting others for self-preservation not out of desire to respect others for the sake of respecting others or as a method of obedience to someone other than themselves.
Basically I like me and I love me and I believe in me and in my abilities. I will either become a tyrannical bastard or I will respect others in order to get what I want, but not out of desire to respect them, but out of the desire to make sure that I have what I need.
Obviously some other people choose to have faith in the planet (Mother Nature will take care of all of my needs so I must respect her and serve her and so on and so forth), in other people (I will serve whomever in order for me to get what I need or want, because I believe this person can satisfy all of my needs, and so on and so forth), or in G-d (I will serve the Lord, because I know that I am in need of a Savior and from that faith everything else falls into place and I can help others because it is the right thing to do, I want to please my Lord, and so on and so forth).
So yes... faith in some format is necessary to formulate your moral compass and how you view others, yourself and the world and how you react to others and the world and how you want others to react to you.
"Faith can take the form in believing in oneself. A person who only beliefs in himself has two ways to go: 1. Uses others to get what he or she thinks he or she needs/wants regardless of what it does to others (good or bad)."
And there lies the problem I have with organized religions, you said it yourself with your words. Catholics, Jews, Baptists, Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovas Witnesses, Seventh Day Advantists, Lutherans, Methodist, any "religion" you can name all say the same thing. "Our way is the only way to salvation." As far as I am concerned they are all full of crap.
Every tribe throughout history, biblical, Native American, African, Aboriginal or European, had a word or a collection of sounds to label themselves. All of the four thousand, or more, ancient tribes we know about called themselves "the people" and each of them had a name for the mysterious life force they thought helped them, protected them, fed them, created them, and kept them together. You call Him God, Allah, Buddha, The Great One for all I care, as long as you understand there is only one Creator.
Organized religion is man's invention and anyone that does not understand this is foolish. A lot people believe there are many paths to God, or "salvation" and they too are fools. If, like all religions claim, there is only one God or Savior then why have so many wars been fought over which path to take? Are the Navajo or Maori or Inuit wrong? What about the myriad of Christan faiths? Which one is wrong? Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, which "religion" is the wrong one? Which one is the "right" one?
The human that can answer that question will be the next Christ, Buddha, Yahweh or Allah. And we, as the human race, better listen when he visits us again.
Oh and the reason I am not really digging to answer the individual questions is because I don't believe it is being asked with respect or with real desire to know the answer. It is being asked out of spite and out of anger and I personally don't waste my time. However do not believe it is not because I cannot, I just dont want to because of the reasons posted above.
I always ask questions with respect. I am not the smartest person on this old earth and have no problem learning from someone younger than I am.
I am not the smartest person in the world either and I certainly don't ever claim to be, however iti s good to have respectful debates on these issues but if we disagree then we disagree and part as friends.
Kimmy, I was simply responding to rocking horse guy. I have no issue with following the 10 commandments, especially since Jesus did the Cliff notes version- I have a t-shirt that says "Love God, love your neighbor. Everything else is just commentary!"
Right. I agreed with your post, I just wanted to add my two cents.
:-D
Kimmy, I agree partially with your take on the Ten Commandments, at least as far as the interactions between people. But the commandments that are specifically about how you should interact with God, they have no meaning to me. So how about I just live my life according to the ones that make sense to me?
The Sabbath has no meaning to me, I will work if I want to, since I see no reason not to.
I will not honor my mother or my father, since they are not deserving of my honor.
I don't murder.
I don't commit adultery.
I don't steal.
I don't lie about my neighbor.
I don't covet my neighbor's belongings.
Is that good enough?
Oh, and I respect you and your beliefs. However, I would also expect that you would respect mine, and not say that mine are beneath yours. But if you'd rather not respect mine, and believe that they are the equal of yours, no big deal.
I agree.. any simple request that the world just follow the Ten Commandments would require adoption of Judeo-Christian outlook.. at least the Judeo part, i figure. As you say, something like 3 or 4 of them, depending on the set you review, are devoted to the Hebrew god.
As I am not Hebrew, and my ancestors before me likely followed Woden/Wotan/Odin the AllFather before being forcibly converted, I have little interest.
Like my own Jewish friends, I figure God is *unknowable*, on this mortal coil.. and they are well aware that most Christians aren't satisified with mere Commandments: you *must* believe in the Resurrected Son, and He the Christ is the only path to Salvation. It is no surprise that, to this day, Jews are still dubious about Christian intent.
I am happy to wait till death to know.. I've been a good boy.. God or Gods should see that
Did I do That? I didn't mean to start a big ass debate on things nonsecular!
I don't care what you want to do. How is that? You can do whatever you want in your house and you can do whatever you want with your life and you can think and believe in whatever you want to think and believe upon. Just as long as you don't get in my way and my rights and liberties (or anyone else's for that matter). Just as long as you don't murder me and those around me (well anyone really). Just as long as you respect my G-d and my beliefs and not take my G-d's name in vain to annoy or hurt me. Just as long as you don't steal from me (or anyone) or steal my husband from me... well... scratch that last one, but you get my point. I in turn will not move upon nor infringe upon your liberties. I don't have to hold your beliefs as the same as my own, but I can tolerate that you have them and respect you as an individual.
I really don't care nor think about too much about what you or anyone else does or thinks. I don't have that time, I am not all knowing so I don't know what is your real beef, and I really just don't care. However, regardless of what you want to do, I will continue to say my piece, and I fine with you saying your piece. I am told to say my piece in peace. All I ask is that you and others do the same. So I obey and the Most High takes care of the rest. If it helps you to Him awesome, if it doesn't that is too bad, but what am I supposed to do? I do what I can and that is all that I am supposed to do. If you have SINCERE and RESPECTFUL questions about my beliefs I am more than happy to answer. If you have real and meaningful desire to have a sincere debate... let's do that and keep it real. Every single individual is responsible for the knowledge they acquire. I am no one's Savior I just do my part.
You don't have to agree, you don't have to read what I write and you certainly don't have to respond to it, but insulting me and my beliefs, or my G-d* is not acceptable, at this point in time YOU are not doing it (however you have in the past), I am saying that as a general comment to anyone. These blanket hateful or demeaning or arrogant statements that people make are insulting to me. I do my best to avoid doing them to others whom I wish to show respect to, if I do them I apologize because they aren't right. I just don't understand the anger and the bile against peaceful religions and the peaceful faiths and the peaceful believers therein just because you lack the ability or the desire to believe in something higher than yourself and that is also a general comment not necessarily directed at you alone. So I respect you and you respect me and it is all good.
If you don't want to talk about G-d, then we don't have to. After a while it gets circular and it annoys me. I have serious lack of patience. That is all me and I am working on that, but circular discussions where there is echec everytime annoy me greatly and I find them useless.
* I love G-d in fact I am IN love with Him. I know it sounds weird to you. I personally don't care what anyone thinks, but I do love G-d. Even though He is limitless in size and scope and abilities and He doesn't need little old limited me to come to His defense, it still bugs me when people insult or denigrate Him. First I don't believe He deserves hatred and bile, because He is awesome and Second the things that He has done for me OR pulled me through makes Him deserving of my loyalty and passion to explain to people that their hatred and bile is misdirected. Thanks for reading.
If you do not believe inGod, or "a" god, obviously the 1st and 2nd commandments will be pretty nonsensical to you. Honoring your Father and Mother does not mean they were always right, but they DID give you life. Of course, if you believed in Jesus as the incarnate God, his church encourages children to honor their parents, but also commands parents to honor their children. If they were doing that, the example you gave would never happen and we are back to honoring your parents. Sabbath, whether religiously oriented or not, marks a commandment designed for you to take care of yourself. Take some time, do no work, visit with friends and family. Refresh yourself, and prepare for the next time of work. Hence the term sabbatical for taking time off from a regular job. It's a stop and smell the roses kind of command, Good for you physically, psychologically, and spiritually, regardless of your belief. Respect for oneself, one's God and one's neighbor-if you are doing at least part of that, its better than not! LOL
"And there lies the problem I have with organized religions, you said it yourself with your words. Catholics, Jews, Baptists, Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovas Witnesses, Seventh Day Advantists, Lutherans, Methodist, any “religion” you can name all say the same thing. “Our way is the only way to salvation.” As far as I am concerned they are all full of crap."
No. I didnt say such a thing. What I said is that people engage in moral relativism, because they do not want to engage in a worldview that satisfy and respects everyone's lifes and properties. Like I said if everyone where to make a decision to follow at least the 10 commandments, the world would be better for it. Why? Because the 10 Commandments are meant to show respect for a Higher Power, oneself and others. If a person decides to follow the 10 Commandments not because of the Higher Power, but they recognize the intrinsic value in respect of person and property, it would still be a good thing.
It is possible for a person to not be part of a religious group of any kind and still follow a respect for others moral lifestyle, but like I said it take some degree of faith either in oneself or in another or a Higher Power to calibrate the reasons why they want to live that particular lifestyle instead of living a lifestyle where there is no respect for others at all which is what a despot a criminal, an evil person or tyrant would do.
Now as far as individual religions, faiths and denominations saying that... what is wrong with that? Aren't YOU stating the same thing? That YOUR way is just as good or even BETTER than the other ways to achieve salvation? Uhm? I believe that you are. By stating that other people are full of crap by stating that, you are stating that your way is better, so all in all that makes you and everyone else equal.
What you should be angry about whiskey is the people that claim to have the right path to salvation and use that as a weapon against you, your freedoms and liberties in violent and tyrannical ways. Most of the people... again I say most of the people there that you mention in that list DO NOT HAVE an agenda to violently destroy the lives of others if they chose not to live according to their religion. Did you know that some Buddhist groups murder and persecute Christians? Yep, in some countries they do like the Kingdom of Bhutan. You see THAT is wrong. Buddhist and Christians can both say that their way is the way to salvation. Saying it, is not the same as actually preventing others from believing in what they want to believe in peace. I have no problem with Muslims claiming that salvation comes through their deity Allah, my problem is with the Muslim that would seek to enslave me or persecute me because I just happen to follow Christ instead.
In short... I reserve my anger and my bile for the violent ones that are crazy and out of control and leave the peaceful ones alone.
"Now as far as individual religions, faiths and denominations saying that… what is wrong with that? Aren’t YOU stating the same thing? That YOUR way is just as good or even BETTER than the other ways to achieve salvation?"
Not at all, I am saying that is the problem with organized religion. Every "faith or denomination" says their way is the "only way" to finding salvation or, in my case, the meaning of life.
Can you explain to me why the Second Commandment says we will not worship "carved images" but Catholics pray to their Saints when all other christian religions believe you have to pray to God through Jesus? Are we supposed to pray to God, Jesus or a Saint to thank him for our blessings?
Why does the King James version of the Bible say, in the Sixth Commandment, "thou shall not kill" when in the Hebrew version it says "thou shall not murder"? This ties into the Catholic belief that it is a sin to commit suicide. If it is a sin to kill yourself then is it also a sin to allow someone to kill you? If you stand still and let another person harm you isn't that a form of suicide?
You have stated in other posts that you would never stand still and let anyone harm you and I agree. So, am I a sinner because many years ago, when I was in the military, I took a life to save the life of another or myself? Or, would I be a sinner if I had stood still and let another man kill my comrade and me, commited suicide?
Do you get my point? I'm not saying the way you, or anyone else, worships is wrong, what I am saying is there is no "one path" to God, eternity, everlasting life, whatever you wish to call it. I guess what I mean is the Bible, Koran, The Book of Mormon, all books, were written by man with mans interpretation of what God wanted to tell us. And, since no human is without fault, their writings are also faulted. It just happens that the writings, and teaching, of the Muslim religion is the most skewed of all. Humans, men, have bastardized it to fit their own view of how people should live. Jim Jones was no better but you, as young as you are, will have to read some history books to learn who he was.
"Can you explain to me why the Second Commandment says we will not worship “carved images” but Catholics pray to their Saints when all other christian religions believe you have to pray to God through Jesus? Are we supposed to pray to God, Jesus or a Saint to thank him for our blessings?"
I am not a Catholic. Ask a Catholic why they pray to Saints. I don't believe in idols either made or intangible (power, fame, etc.). I don't believe in icons, but I do believe that having crucifixes is not a bad thing just as long as the person is not praying to it. Just because Catholics do that it doesn't mean that ALL of Christianity is therefore wrong and I don't understand the anger. If Catholics feel safe with holding onto icons and praying to Saints for intercession, then so be it that is their thing. I am not going to mock them or be angry at them because we disagree on that. I just don't do it and that is that.
As for Protestants/Evangelical Christians/and so on... praying to G-d through Jesus... I have no idea what you are talking about. We don't pray to G-d through Jesus. I am sorry, but I find that funny. Who told you that? Jesus IS G-d. We pray to Jesus, because Jesus is the let's say... skin and bones that embodied the Lord G-d for Him to be able to live on the Planet as one of us. G-d came to Earth in the body of Jesus Christ. The body of Jesus Christ is a Temple for G-d to inhabit and in essence so it is the body of every believer. He had to walk around and live among us, living among us would not have been possible unless He used a human body which is what He did. Jesus then IS G-d among us (Immanuel). It is complex and I don't have time to get into this, please ask a Pastor if you have any further questions.
Christians are supposed to pray to YHWH, the Most High G-d, the Great I AM. Praying TO Jesus Christ is pretty much the same thing. Again Jesus IS G-d. Again complex ask a Pastor if you have any further questions. Praying to Saints is a Catholic thing, again why they do it ask a Priest. Overall all that I gathered is that Catholics belief that having SOMEONE else that is in good with Christ (like a Saint, or His terrestrial Mother) would somehow GUARANTEE that their prayers get listened to and perhaps answered. I don't agree with that, because Jesus made no provisions for that belief, and He opened Himself for worship to Him directly, not through someone else.
"Why does the King James version of the Bible say, in the Sixth Commandment, “thou shall not kill” when in the Hebrew version it says “thou shall not murder”?"
Ask a Pastor who has studied the Biblical languages and Bible History why the discrepancy. My belief is that the translation was done with the version of English at the time. It is what it is. That is why in KJV the word charity is used instead of love in some parts, yet charity translation can include the ability to love so if that was the meaning more prevalent at the time, it explains why it was used instead of love. (Just something I found that may prove to be helpful: http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what-does-thou-shall-not-kill-mean.html. There is a link almost at the beginning that leads to another page.). My question to you is the following: So what? What does that even have to do with anything?
"This ties into the Catholic belief that it is a sin to commit suicide. If it is a sin to kill yourself then is it also a sin to allow someone to kill you? If you stand still and let another person harm you isn’t that a form of suicide?"
Please read the link that I posted above that first page that comes up. Also again I am not a Catholic so I don't even know why you keep asking me all these Catholic questions for :-\. With that said, MURDER is a sin. The translation into English, is not the original text, it is a translation the word in English that most translates G-d's commandment is murder and the link above shall help you from that point on. The reason though why suicide is a sin, because in essence they are taking G-d's place as the life give and life taker, also it is a sin that sadly people cannot recover some and repent of and I am sure that grieves the Spirit greatly. Now I have read the rest of your questions several times and I got to say I have no idea what you are trying to say or what is your point? I mean if you allow someone to kill you it is a sin? What? If you want to allow someone to kill you, you are indeed suicidal and you need help. What does that have to do with anything though?
"You have stated in other posts that you would never stand still and let anyone harm you and I agree. So, am I a sinner because many years ago, when I was in the military, I took a life to save the life of another or myself? Or, would I be a sinner if I had stood still and let another man kill my comrade and me, commited suicide?"
You didn't read my full post. I stated quite CLEARLY that wars are indeed necessary (some) even at the lost of innocent human life and the link above also speaks to that. I stated that I would take the life of someone during a war situation. So you clearly did not read my entire post. It is not murder because of the circumstances and because of your inner situation. That is to say, you didn't set out to MURDER the person and you wouldn't have outside of the war circumstance, but you had to kill the person to perservere your own life or to perservere the life of another. Again read the link it actually does touches on that. There is a vast difference, unfortunately KJV is not perfect and it has been modified in the past years. That is why it is necessary to read the original language (and to know the original language). If anything find translations that explain how they went about the translation. If they went through the translation responsibly using modern language I would recommend reading those instead. King James did the right thing, but it wasn't perfect that is all.
Is that what bothers you? That you believe that because of a war situation where you didn't set out to murder anyone BUT you had to kill them (read link), someone stating that if you don't believe in Christ, you won't be saved, then you read the sixth commandment according to KJV and you get angry? Are you angry that if it is true that Jesus is alive and He is the only One that can save, that He won't save you because you killed someone in war? That you will have to pay eternity in Hell for something that you felt justified in doing due to the circumstances? I am just trying to understand because I really do think in some small way we veered off course here.
However, if that is what is happening let me tell you that Jesus knows why you killed that person. If you killed that person not in evil or malice (murder), He knows that and He understands it. If though it tugs at your conscience the best way to handle it is just confess that it is something that is tugging at your conscience and talk to Him (respectfully) about it. Read the Bible, talk to reliable Pastors, seek spiritual advice. More than likely this is just the Enemy accusing you and instead of finding a resolution, you decide to write Christ off entirely. If you write Christ off entirely in hopes that it is not true that you have to pay for your sins, in my opinion, it is the wrong move. If you believe that Christ won't save you because you killed somebody at war, it is in my opinion the wrong belief. You are limiting a limitless Deity. There is no limits to His ability to forgive or save those that want to be forgiven or saved regardless of what they have done.
The situation is the following: Christ is able to forgive everyone for ANYTHING they have done, Christ can justify/forgive/modify/change/clean/purify your behavior if it is brought to Him in prayer and respect. He can save EVERY SINGLE person on the Planet that has ever lived, why? because He paid the price of everyone's sins with His own body. He cares for us all that much collectively and individually. Yes so you killed some guy at war... I don't want to sound flippant but why is that a stop to your salvation in Christ? He can deal with it, He is all powerful and He resurrected I am thinking He can handle that and change things around (save you) if you want to... IF you want to. If... you want to be saved by Christ you WILL be saved by Christ. I believe that Jesus could have forgiven Hitler, if Hitler had decided not to commit suicide, change his life, ask forgiveness for his sins in sincerity and taken the due punishment for his crimes even if it meant the dead penalty. I have to believe that, because if G-d is not able nor capable nor willing to forgive someone like Hitler who (if he had) ASK sincerely and with respect for forgiveness and salvation, then that is not a G-d that I would worship.
"Do you get my point?" No. Unfortunately I do not.
"I’m not saying the way you, or anyone else, worships is wrong, what I am saying is there is no “one path” to God, eternity, everlasting life, whatever you wish to call it."
That is YOUR belief system and that is fine. I am not angry at you. I DISAGREE with you, but I can TOLERATE your system without putting you down, without getting angry, without being arrogant, and without deeming you to be full of crap.
"I guess what I mean is the Bible, Koran, The Book of Mormon, all books, were written by man with mans interpretation of what God wanted to tell us."
True of some, not true of others in my opinion. This is an opinion of yours based on your own assumptions on your own beliefs. So again you are no different than everyone else nor any better.
"And, since no human is without fault, their writings are also faulted."
The translations may not be perfect as in the case of KJV which has been corrected 100's of times over. However again this is just an opinion on your part and it is definetly doesn't make you better than anyone else.
"It just happens that the writings, and teaching, of the Muslim religion is the most skewed of all."
Because it is based on violence and hatred that hurts all human beings. However, those that are based on real love and true tolerance even if you disagree with them what is your beef? They pose no threat to you.
"Humans, men, have bastardized it to fit their own view of how people should live."
They are unconnected to you, they do not invade your space or kill you nor your loved ones (except radicals and extremists of course) so if they have their own view on how people should live what is tht to you? Ever heard of live and let live? And what makes you so special that your own view on how people should live is better? Again you are no different than those you are ragging on.
"Jim Jones was no better but you, as young as you are, will have to read some history books to learn who he was."
Uhm... you keep saying that. I am not a teenager, and even if I were, Jim Jones does come up in the news or in history a lot and I do read and I am not stupid so I do know who he was and what he did. He is an example of the extremist side of things, but he had nothing to do with Christianity.
"Not at all, I am saying that is the problem with organized religion. Every “faith or denomination” says their way is the “only way” to finding salvation or, in my case, the meaning of life."
Why is that a problem? why are you so angry that people have that opinion or have those beliefs? What is it to you if they think that or not? How does that affect you? Why is that a reason of contention? Why not let them be and you live your own life? Why not listen to what they have to say and then move on with your life if you still disagree? Why so angry and so mistrustful at individuals that are so unconnected to you and to your life? Are they coming into your home by force or something? Putting a gun to your temple? A sword to your neck? Are they bombing your place of business or your home? Are they killing people that you know? A family member? Did someone die the moment a person said "My beliefs are the only ways for you to be saved"? :-\. I really don't understand. Why is it that their mere saying that they have answers to life questions through their belief systems makes you angry? I don't see the reason to get angry here.
Although I do know that some belief systems ARE damaging to the world and to individuals like extreme Islam, satanism and so on because of their COMPLETE lack of respect for human life, however, I have no problems with anybody of most religions and faiths, whose goals in life are to make life better for themselves, their communities and their nations. If we disagree on salvation issues and who is the One that in the end of time has all the answers... then we disagree. I am not angry, why? It is their opinion, it is their faith. I don't agree that it is on the same level as my own, nor do I find equivalency, but I can TOLERATE them and respect them nevertheless without being angry that they are stating their ways to salvation is better than my own.
I believe that salvation comes through Christ. He paid a high price, His body and His blood for expiation of my sins. There is a law that I have broken and if I don't want to pay the penalty then I have to look for someone else willing to take the penalty for me. No one else other than Jesus Christ has raised their hands to take the punishment for me. He is the only one able, willing, loving and capable to do so. So I take up on His offer to me. To serve Him and to obey and to be clean. Ahh I am a new person and I live and work on my salvation and mature in Christ. I believe this for many reasons I don't have the time to get into right now. However in all of my studies and personal experiences have led me to that conclusion and overall I tend to be ready and prepared to defend it when the time is right and the situation is appropriate, but if we disagree we disagree what else is there to say? You don't think He is the one that will save you? Okay well I feel bad for you, but what can I do? It is my opinion, and it is my Faith and it is not going to change just because you think that I am stupid in fact you doing that if anything cements it even further. I am not going to do anything to you. I am not getting angry why? It is what it is. In the end someone is going to be wrong and someone is going to be right. It is what it is why the anger?
Again... you may not want to admit it, but you want to live by your own standards of behavior and not want to be told that there is another way for your soul salvation. You don't want anyone to tell you, that you have been wrong and that your way is taking you to eternal damnation. Okay... it is all good, that is how you want to live your life. It is what it is. However... you want to say that everybody ELSE is full of crap, whereas you aren't...? Because you are you and you are special? Again you are stating that you are better than everyone else because you faith relies on you and your own belief systems based on yourself... you know what? That is fine. We happen to disagree, but heck if I will go on a rampage over you or anyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs than me if we both RESPECTFULLY agree to disagree. My problem is with the violent people who through words and/or actions inflict pain and misery on those that they happen to disagree with.
Not angry at the peaceful people I disagree with, angry at the ones trying to destroy human lives through their belief systems. I just don't understand your anger, because it doesn't seem to be partial towards the evil doers, it just seems to be all encompassing for everyone that has a faith or belief system organized or otherwise and I personally don't understand that, because most of the people in organized religion or otherwise pose no threat to you nor your life.
Just a couple of comments. Christians do not pray to God throught Jesus. They believe Jesus was the incarnation of God, therefore IS God. Praying to God or Jesus is interchangable. Same being.
Catholics used to pray to Saints. As they are getting more into personal Bible study, they may pray as a group to "the cloud of witnesses who have gone before" But they still expect any response to come from God. Those who do not usually have mixed Catholicism with some other worship form, like Santeria, VooDoo, or simply outdated superstition.
The Kng James Bible was a translation into English from the Greek in the 16th century. There were many mistakes made. Hebrew is very difficult to read and translate, since it has diacritical markings, but no vowels. Mistakes are made. And the Greek ws translated form the Hebrew in much of the old testament, to add another layer of confusion. The Jewish "Bible" is Torah, the 1st 5 books listed in the Old Testament. The entire rest of the Old Testament is exactly as it is described-history of the Judges and kings, Chronicles of the Jewish people, Psalms, or songs, and the sayings of Prophets, both major and minor. The protestant church frequently omits what are called the Apocryphal scriptures, additional Old Testament books found in the Catholic Collection, and available alone for those who do not have it in their translations.
Suicied is prohbited not because of the 6th commandment, but because life and death are held in the hand of God alone. therefore it is a sin (anything that takes you away from God) to commit suicide. Do I think suicides are going to hell? Not likely. It is a mental illness; I'm pretty sure God takes that into consideration.
The collected sayings of Jesus iclude the coment that there is no way to God except by Him since he is indeed God. The Koran consists of the saying of Mohammed and the Book of Mormon was provided in a decidly questionable event in the 19th century. However, if you READ the Book of Mormon, it is a paraphrsed, moved around Bibel, even written in the same 16th century English as the King James Version. I feel that destroys the credibilty of the story that it was translated from an unreadable language to English in the 19th century. Doesn't add up.. But that is my opinion. I know many who are LDS, Jehovah's witness, fringe nondoms, and even wiccan. I present God as I understand him (it?) to them, then it is up to God and them to work out the details. I may never see any change in them. But the corollary is that I have to live a life that makes people want to have the faith and surety that I have. One cannot be a horrible person, then preach any religion or faith and be believed. No attacks, just commenting.
Well said. All this extreme certainty in the unknowable only leads to needless conflict
LOL I have to laugh at your comment. The only conflict is inflicted when people go to extremes of the violent sort. Otherwise everyone is good even if they disagree on basic or elemental principles, they are able to deal with it and sit on the same table and eat. It is okay to be CERTAIN of the future that one KNOWS based on their faiths, what is not okay is to take that knowledge and convert it into a weapon.
This is what I don't understand about you agnostics and atheists. Your disdain, your anger and your mockery of EVERYONE that has a certain belief system that do not hold up to your LIMITED STANDARDS of knowledge. You are basing your disbelief on your own selves ignoring the truth that you are limited. If you do not want to be certain about a future you do not know then say so and live with it, without putting down those that choose to add certainty to not the details of the future, but the end game in the future.
Not only do you completely misapphrehend me, you've broken your own prohibition on talking to me. If I recall, you called me useless and requested I not speak to you. However, i'll stand by my right today, since you were no doubt a child whle I was in uniform defending this country. Useless, indeed.
I've consciously targeted rational discussion of matters here, without resorting to insults. But if i perceive things correctly, you spend an inordinate amount of time tearing erstwhile allies up because you've misread their words and tone. And then, for some reason, they end up apologizing to you.
At what point have i treated anyone religious here with disdain, anger, and mockery? Are you talking about Muhammad's flying horse? You want to lump me in with Athiests even though i just clearly said i'm not?
You can't even get me straight, and my words are right here. At what point should i be swallowing your theology?
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152270/abandon-all-hope
Funny but flippant JustAl...LOL
Good question alien. The answer is emphatically yes! People who call themselves agnostics (o Ye of little faith) and those who consider themselves atheists (o Ye of no faith) still have basic faith issues, they're just not Christian faith issues. You believe the sun will rise in the morning because you've seen it do that every day of your life since you can remember, faith. You know that if you step off of a tall building, you'll fall to the street below and die upon impact because you've watched more that one season of CSI Miami, faith. You know that 2 plus 2 equals 4 because that was taught to you in grade school and reinforced ever since, faith. We have faith in many diverse things for many diverse reasons under many diverse circumstances. If you can believe in the, as yet, unproven theory that mankind evolved from primordial slime and after many millions of years became what it is today simply on the say so of the brother of Charles Darwin, then why can't Christians believe in the visible, factual and tangible deeds, witnessed by thousands and verified by thousands, of a man who only lived two thousand years ago? Neither you nor I were there at either event; however, I'm more willing to believe that evolution may have played a part in our survival than you are willing to believe that the resurrection played a part in our salvation, why is that? FAITH!
Good stuff.. Very interesting discussion. I am reminded of a LONG debate I had with an Athiest, but swap in the word Belief for Faith. I could not get him to admit that he Believed in anything. He KNEW that the Sun's rays would hit the earth in 8 minutes, because it would still be there..etc etc. How do we know aliens haven't blown the core? My overall contention was that Belief should not be a word conceded to the Religious, while he thought Belief was NEVER enough.
I believe that you'd characterize his KNOWING as having FAITH, based on your comments, so I'm reminded that there is great difficulty in nailing down precise definitions for the words Knowledge/Belief/Faith.
I tend to have Faith that Science answers more questions over time, but it painfully takes decades and centuries to make significant progress.
I have faith in the power of Law, however imperfect, to stabilize societies and promote Justice, over time
I have faith that capitalism and free markets are unmatched in ability to properly allocate capital and resources... hence i get angry about rigged markets or needless distortions of them by non-market forces.
I know precisely what it means to believe in something greater than myself, because I am an American, and I'm born of England and all that long history entails (dual-cit). This came into sharper relief when i served in the U.S. Army (platoon marching in perfect sync for the first time, during Basic, had this effect on everyone)
I am not Atheist.. I just don't KNOW. I suppose that makes me Agnostic. I don't believe in Resurrection anymore than I believe in the Prophecy of Muhammed or Joseph Smith. I certainly can't believe that a tribe of Israelites settled the Americas over 2 millennia ago, nor that Muhammed can lay claim to Jerusalem because of a flying horse. Nothing about these phenomena are repeatable
I suppose i have Faith in the repeatable, which, as you say, your examples tend to center around too. Any child with sufficient fingers can repeat 2+2. Faith in the repeatable is probably something more like Knowledge in other people's views.
So despite or because of all this, though, i still have a sense of morality?
Hells bells alien, if any of us had all the answers one of us would be the next Messiah, or Jim Jones, take your pick.
Like i said, whiskey, i don't KNOW either.. ain't no one around that can make me know either, so far
Alien, I knew that if you hung around here long enough, you and I would absolutely agree on something. I guess you could say I had faith. And Hisham, great substance in your argument, too. Although it doesn't take faith at all to believe that 2+2 equals 4. That is knowledge, provable and repeatable, time after time. That's the difference between knowledge and faith. And I do respect your faith, don't get me wrong.
No offense taken RockingHorseGuy.
To continue: In other words, Faith tempers morality. Faith in something greater than youself requires your respect and attention. If you have faith in God, you wish not to insult or anger him so you follow his commandments in order to stay in his good graces and hopefully, stay out of Hell. If, on the other hand, you have faith only in yourself, you don't care if you insult or anger yourself because you aren't going to do anything significant to yourself and you have no graces to reward yourself with, except perhaps, another cold one, or another buzz, or another meaningless physical entanglement and unfortunately, you're not going to be able to keep yourself out of Hell. The reality of Hell is why people of little to no faith fear death so much...it is the unspoken and fearful reality no one wants to discuss anymore!
You need a base of moral principles. Most get those from their faith or beliefs, but I suppose you don't HAVE to have that.