Thousands get health insurance cancellation notices. “…the cancellation notices, which began arriving in August, have shocked many consumers in light of President Barack Obama’s promise that people could keep their plans if they liked them.” If the media had done their job, consumers wouldn’t be “shocked” now.

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552 Comments on "Thousands get health insurance cancellation notices"

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Not so silent
Member
poppajoe49
Member

He didn’t even make it to the Obamacare death panels!
Looks like conservatives will be weeded out slowly, and allowed to, or made to die, then Obama can have te liberal paradise he’s working for!

Olivia
Member

There is absolutely zero evidence that this guy even tried to find a new insurance policy. He mumbled something about not being able to get on the website, but that sounds like a pretty poor excuse to give up and “let nature take its course.” Especially when he could have gone to Walgreens or CVS, and they would have been happy to help him negotiate the plans available to him.

Sounds to me like yet another example of the insurance industry’s latest bait-and-switch: they tell the customer his old policy is cancelled, and then offer him a much more expensive one instead. The idea being that, with all the confusion out there, he’ll just give up and take what they offer, instead of checking out all his options (including those offered by the competition).

It’s a little fishy, too, that this man expresses concern over putting his family through this, but doesn’t mind putting his family through the anguish of boycotting treatment because he doesn’t feel like researching his options. And what makes it even fishier is that he never specified what kind of treatment he expects to go without, what kind of cancer he has, or what his prognosis is. Nor did the interviewer bother to ask him. Pretty strange omission for such a story.

You guys are such suckers for anti-Obama propaganda. And FAUX News knows it, and plays you like a bunch of kazoos.

KimmyQueen
Member

Not getting into details… Got my Mom’s letter from her insurance. Yes I can legally open her mail so I don’t want some moron pointing that out. I just want to point out three things:

It seems that my Mom now needs to make sure that all of her pills that she needs are going to be “pre-approved”. Why must it be “pre-approved” and who will do it? Don’t know. She will have to call to find out, my pointing this out is… if the Doctor prescribes it and she needs it… why must it be “pre-approved” before she gets it? Uhm… How long will it take for this pre-approval process and will my Mom have to be without pills for a considerable amount of time while they figure it out…? Nothing about being given a small supply while she waits I guess those details she has to call and find out.

ACA is too expensive for smaller pharmacies plans (which would have been more affordable and what she has been doing) so they moved her to a bigger pharmacy (a corporation) which means that the medicines will go up in price…

*sighs*

Last thing… from the letter FAQs: “The Affordable Care Act (ACA) recommends coverage for vitamin D supplements for adults (WTH?). Will vitamin D supplements be a covered benefit? Vitamin D supplements are available at no cost for adults age 65 and over as recommended under the Affordable Care Act. Eligible members must obtain a written prescription from their doctor for all products, including over-the-counter (OTC) products that do not require a prescription by law, and the supplements must be filled at a Preferred Retail Pharmacy. (Like the corporation pharmacy she was moved into.)”

Okay my Mom is NOT 65 and she is nowhere near being that, so why even bring this crap up? So I am looking and looking and it seems, if I am not mistaken, that is part of her coverage now so in essence she is paying for that so she is being told she is paying for free vitamin D for OTHER people…

Fan-freaking-tastic…. !!!!

There are other crap here that I really don’t want to get into because I am pissed off and this is not even my plan and it went up not sure how much percentage wise, but I can only contend that this additional crap is going to cost her.

*sighs* If I was man and I didn’t have painted nails I would punch something…

Not so silent
Member

By “moron” I bet your refering to Nurse Puss Pocket?…:)

KimmyQueen
Member

You never know what may come out of its ass and by ass I mean its mouth.

sa_rose
Member

I am paying out the ass for Vitamin D because no insurance covers it right now. Older people need it because they need it for bone health, and as they age, and their kidneys loose function, they cannon convert VIt d from the sun or food into the vit d in the form the body needs it. Generally, no “nutritional supplements” are covered by ant insurance. Calcuym probably should be a covered benefit for the elderly as well/

KimmyQueen
Member

That is all well and good, but why must my Mom pay for OTHERS supplements? She is paying for YEARS of supplements for OTHER people under the guise that she is somehow paying for her own supplements and that will kick in once she turns 65… That is a ponzi scheme. It is of course terrible that it is expensive and it really shouldn’t be, if there is a market for people that need it the insurance companies SHOULD cover it and people should pay accordingly as they need it. However again… why must MY MOM pay for OTHERS supplements?

sa_rose
Member

Of oourse it is. this wholedeal is a worse Ponzi scheme than Social Security. At least Social Security was designed to be independant. THis crap was created as a Ponzi scheme.

poppajoe49
Member

I tried to reply last night, but got 404’d. I’m going to try again with a very short post and then edit it.
OK, that worked. I’m not sure which word tripped it out, but here is the post now:

Don’t feel so bad Kimmy. With Obamacare, you have to pay for others maternity care, birth control, and even Viagra, whether or not you would need it yourself I’m pretty sure I won’t get pregnant or need birth control pills, but I would have to pay for them.
When you buy any other kind of insurance, you only buy what you need, and pay accordingly, with Obamacare, you have to buy what you don’t want or need, and pay accordingly.

Not so silent
Member
Not so silent
Member

Paging Nurse Puss Pocket, Nurse Puss Pocket, you needed in the metal health ward stat….We have your medication..Paging Nurse Puss Pocket….

sa_rose
Member

This looks like as good a place as any to post this.

http://youtu.be/QHWEUPOFO8M

sa_rose
Member

Yoou stupid. . . . There were a number of links to more conservative sites reporting the incident. For your benefit, I used the one from the local news channel. CBS I believe. And if ou think the Big 3 broadcast news is supporting the right, you are beyond understanding.

poppajoe49
Member

And beyond help.

sa_rose
Member

Well, I guess we knew that all along.

Olivia
Member

I hereby accuse you of having an overabundance of critical thinking skills.
************
Trust a far right winger to regard critical thinking skills as a bad thing. ;>)

sa_rose
Member

See how stupid you are? It IS a good thng, he was giving him a compliment and you didn’t get it. No wonder you don’t understand what Obama says. You have a serious comprehension problem. THere’s therapy for that.

Not so silent
Member

Rose you have done a marvelous job debating our liberal crapstain…but it is like trying to make a Christmas ornament out of dog poo…. no matter how pretty it looks, its still poo and still stinks….I move that we all TD/MO and ignore the unholy troll from hell….:)

Olivia
Member

Translation: “We can’t win, when she’s got all the facts and logic on her side. Maybe we’d better just wave a white flag and have done with it……”

sa_rose
Member

You wouldn’t know logic if it bit you in the ass. And your “facts” are invariably wrong.

Not so silent
Member

It’s like “Whack-a-mole” Its too dumb to realize every time it pops up its going to get smacked….Oh well put another quarter in and smack it some more…..Even the Whack-a-mole machine stops at some point, but not our libtard…..

Not so silent
Member

You wouldn’t know facts if they rose up and grabbed you by the ears….face it, you just talking points and your unable to see any other way that what you are told, a sheep, a follower….a libtard….Your one of many that thinks any one other than a liberal is bad…just like Germans and Jews..Conservatives are the new jews..perhaps concentration camps? Oh yea I forgot you have become enlightened and now kill them before they are born so you don’t have to deal with the shoes and glasses and gold teeth..yep libtards are sure enlightened…..just like Nazi’s. there is only one way, der leaders way..all hail der leader….again fuck you and the horse you rode in on…your a pitiful excuse for a human..no ability to think for yourself, need to be lead by the nose like a farm animal and told what to do, all the time thinking you have freedom…

Olivia
Member

Silent, I do think you need to think about addressing that drinking problem. You’re doing an awful lot of rambling, and none of it has anything to do with the issue being discussed.

Why don’t you go sleep it off, and come back later when your head’s cleared up?

sa_rose
Member

90% of the crap you have posted has nothing to do with the subject! How dare you accuse any of the rest of us for going off subject?

poppajoe49
Member

It’s all part of her diversion tactic Rose. If she can get us chasing the BS accusations, she will claim victory for someone not answering every one of her way-too-many posts of nonsense.

sa_rose
Member

I also notice that when I ask her a pointed question that disagrees with her spew, she responds to some other, more innocuouspost, like a spelling or grammar error.

MGAP
Member

Hi Sugar tits! I see you’re still wasting your time. Why don’t you go step into traffic and create some jobs.

poppajoe49
Member

She’s already keeping a team of shrinks busy working out her daddy issues.

Not so silent
Member

Wonder what health care plan pays for the shrinks? and it looks like her health plan ain’t paying for enough meds….

MGAP
Member

Hi Sugar tits! I see you’re still wasting your time. Why don’t you go step into traffic and create some jobs.
************************************************

Translation; Hi dumbfuck. Why don’t you shove a white flag up your ass and pretend you’re French? Eat shit.

poppajoe49
Member

LOL!!
Now THAT’S a realistic translation!

Not so silent
Member

Now that’s some funny shit…:)

Not so silent
Member

With Olivia it always comes back to the “right winger”, she only knows the talking points she is given..der furher has total control of this stupid pig….

Olivia
Member

“Der furher”? That’s one of the funniest butcherings of a foreign word that I’ve seen in a while. :>D

Armed and Awesome
Member

At least spell “Führer” correctly you drooling, cretinous, imbecile.

poppajoe49
Member

Good point, but don’t let her drag you down to her level of criticizing people’s spelling.
Although, she does it to Rose, who she already knows has problems typing because of her medical issues, and her autocorrect on her Kindle often puts the wrong words in he rposts, but that doesn’t stop my bitch from going after her for that, because she has nothing else.

Olivia
Member

Actually, pointing out such errors is very relevant. If Rose can’t be bothered to notice the difference between “gender dysphoria” and “genre euphoria,”—-two VERY different terms—–maybe she’s not bothering to notice other things as well. Like, say, the factual errors in many right wing theories and accusations that she hears about on FOX News.

sa_rose
Member

I know the difference. Clearly my kindle doesn’t. And as I said before, I had gone back and corrected that twice. Itmakes the change when I hit enter, so I don’t always see it while I am typing. And have had carpal tunnel on both wrists, with permanent damage to my right hand (my very dominant hand) my typing is quite a mess on some days. AND FOR THE ZILLIONTH TIME I DON”T WATCH FOX NEWS. We have a Fox station with local news at 9pm, but I don’t watch it and I don’t have access to the other fox channels.

Not so silent
Member

Glad you got a laugh, if you think Hitler’s tittle was funny you are a sadistic loon…but then you are a libtard…..all hail the libtards…for they will give you free shit…by the way I like your lie earlier, “I never said I was in the medical field”…perhaps you should go back about a year and explain your comments about being a nurse…your a lying sack of crap…always have been always will be…god your en embarrassment…..

Olivia
Member

Glad you got a laugh, if you think Hitler’s tittle was funny you are a sadistic loon…
**************
You’re deliberately misunderstanding, Silent, probably in an effort to shift focus from your gaffe.

And, again, nursing and medicine are two different disciplines.

Kip Hooker
Member

The accusation came from a small l libertarian. But I suppose such details are insignificant to a critical thinker of your caliber.

flashingscotsman
Member

Another turd, and complete agreement with Kip’s sarcasm, which My Dear Sweet Olivia is incapable of understanding. And that’s from a Libertarian with a capital L.

Kip Hooker
Member

LOL Flashing. It is so funny how the expert on everything knows so very little.

Olivia
Member

As I recall, the much ballyhooed Ayn Rand was also a libertarian with a capital L.

But her libertarian principles went right down the toilet when she was diagnosed with cancer, and had the opportunity to sign up for Medicare, and have Uncle Sam foot the bill instead of herself.

It’s easy to swagger around and play Independent Cuss when everything’s going your way. It’s a lot harder when medical bills are threatening to destroy everything you’ve worked for, and you’re too sick to earn the money to pay them yourself.

Kip Hooker
Member

@Oblivia

“As I recall, the much ballyhooed Ayn Rand was also a libertarian with a capital L.”

You recall incorrectly. Ayn Rand was never a member of the Libertarian Party. Nor was she that enthralled with libertarians in general.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ar_libertarianism_qa

And while there is much overlap there are deep contrasts as well. For me I admire a lot about the philosophy but find the Galt’s Gulch segments of Atlas Shrugged to be irksomely Utopian. Also I cannot fundamentally agree to Objectivism as if a proper system of quantification could be implemented then surely it could be argued that the most logical conclusion of this philosophy would be one where utility trumped individual liberty. Also great men/women are nice but her notion of them is romanticized and discounts the importance of the little guy shaking up the system as well as his contributions.

“But her libertarian principles went right down the toilet when she was diagnosed with cancer, and had the opportunity to sign up for Medicare, and have Uncle Sam foot the bill instead of herself.”

What is anti-libertarian about expecting to receive some benefit from a system you were forced to pay for?

Olivia
Member

Kip, it’s an ultrapopular misconception on the right that social security and Medicare always, and only, pay you back what you paid in.

In fact, if you look at one of those social security statements, showing what you’ve paid in throughout your lifetime, you’ll see that it isn’t all that much. Even if it’s adjusted for inflation, you go through the money you paid into it within a very few years. Ditto for Medicare. Hence, unless you die within, say, 3 or 4 years of retirement, and don’t have any lingering and expensive catastrophic illnesses, you will indeed be supported by others at some point during your retirement. Which is why many right wingers keep clamoring to raise the retirement age.

The whole diatribe you posted here about Ayn Rand’s philosophy doesn’t sound at all like your writing, and I can’t think what it’s got to do with the fact that Rand opposed the idea of government benefits. Which is certainly a libertarian philosophy, even if she didn’t describe herself as such.

Kip Hooker
Member

I will never be paid back what I put into Social Security. There aren’t enough people in my generation to keep the ponzi scheme going.

And if what I had paid/will pay into Social Security had been invested then (averaged out over five decades and taking into account compound interest) then what Social Security pays out would be easily dwarfed even if I immediately cashed out at age 70 and never drew another dime of interest off the investment.

“The whole diatribe you posted here about Ayn Rand’s philosophy doesn’t sound at all like your writing”

Really? A belief in chaos theory, a practically non quantifiable universe, the import of small business and the little man over giants that almost always become imperial in their beliefs and actions. None of these sound like me? You have got to start paying attention.

“and I can’t think what it’s got to do with the fact that Rand opposed the idea of government benefits. Which is certainly a libertarian philosophy, even if she didn’t describe herself as such.”

That wasn't what that part was supposed to do at all. It was supposed to point out that you don't know the difference between Rand, libertarians and Libertarians. Which you didn't. No need to thank me. I always enjoy teaching you something new.

As for the last part I will say it again. What is not libertarian about expecting some small benefit back from what has been taken from you?

Olivia
Member

As for the last part I will say it again. What is not libertarian about expecting some small benefit back from what has been taken from you?
**************
I’ve got a great example. The government gives you much, and in return expects you to pay your taxes. The right constantly balk at taxes, but are first in line when the goodies are being handed out.

That’s not “libertarian” at all. That’s just plain, old-fashioned me-first selfishness.

That silly “Ponzi scheme” talking point might be popular on the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck/Sean Hannity circuit, but it’s just the usual rob-the-poor-to-reward-the-rich scheming so beloved of GOP financial backers.

Kip Hooker
Member

Yeah medicaid and social security. Crap systems that can’t compete with what we could have had if our property and labor hadn’t been confiscated. Awesome goodies. I’ll pass . . . oh wait I cant. Contribution is mandatory.

That silly “Ponzi scheme” talking point might be popular on the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck/Sean Hannity circuit, but it’s just the usual rob-the-poor-to-reward-the-rich scheming so beloved of GOP financial backers.

Right. Because funding a system off of an ever expanding base that will crash just as soon as the size of the base isn’t as large as the row above it isn’t a pyramid scheme. Who knew?

sa_rose
Member

Actually hardly ANYONE on Social Security thinks that. Perhaps a few very elderly from the Greatest generation. But is IS a pension plan. You (and most everyone else) pays into it, and when you retire, f you have worked an adequate amount of “quarters” you qualify forbasic Medicare, with the option of purchasing some extra parts of the lan. Railroad pensions work uch the same, only I think the work time reqired is a little lower.

poppajoe49
Member

Here’s something I just got in an email that is very pertinent to this conversation:

If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a Republican doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Democrat doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a Republican is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Democrat is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Republican is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a Democrat is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a Republican is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
If a Democrat is down-and-out he wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a Republican doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.
A Democrat demands that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a Republican is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A Democrat non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.

If a Republican decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
If a Democrat decides he needs health care, he demands that the rest of us pay for his.

If a Republican reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
A Democrat will delete it because he’s “offended”.

Olivia
Member

Except for the fact that the whole thing is a lie, designed to mislead gullible right wingers like yourself.

Most of those anonymous “pass this e mail on to everyone you know” spam pieces ARE lies. But no one ever accused you, Poopajoe, of having an overabundance of critical thinking skills.

danybhoy
Member

Useful idiot.

Kip Hooker
Member

@PJ49

I hereby accuse you of having an overabundance of critical thinking skills.

Not so silent
Member

I R the first graduate of the “Thumb down Olivia Institute of troll removal”…I graduated at the head of my class…..And I have a job I love, but I still don’t have health insurance…..

Olivia
Member

Well, if the GOP had their way, Silent, you’d be forced to choose between the job you love, and affordable health care.

Obama is trying to make it possible for you to have both. How funny that you’re fighting so hard for the “right” to be financially insecure.

sa_rose
Member

Now where are you gtting this from? Talk about pulling s*** out of your ass with no documentation, no link to reality at all. The GOP isn’t trying to make him choose anything, BY CHOICE, he has the job he loves and pays cash. Maybe that will change in the future, Maybe not, but you are hardly in a position to challenge his choice, since it costs no one at this point, and besides, for all you know he has enough money tucked away to pay millions for care. You don’t know so quit making glib assumptions!

Olivia
Member

Sorry, Rose, but if Poopajoe has “millions tucked away,” there’s no reason his wife would have had to go without insurance since she lost her good job with benefits.

It’s kind of you to try to run interference for him, but he’s already described his position in detail—-and made it clear that he’s NOT rich.

The bottom line, as I said before, is one of two things.

Either they’re just boycotting insurance in a childish attempt to spite Obama, in which case they’re setting themselves up for big problems someday, or

they truly can’t afford to pay for insurance, in which case they, of all people, should be pushing for better regulation of the industry.

In neither case does Poopajoe come off looking particularly clever, patriotic, fiscally savvy, or knowledgeable about age related medical problems.

sa_rose
Member

I don’t need to run interference for Poppa. He can handle himself. I am merely pointing out the bias of your arguments to him and by extension, to all of us, since you think we are like the borg and all think alike. Besides, I think you wre responding to a post from Kick, and now its gone. Did you delete Kick?

Olivia
Member

I don’t need to run interference for Poppa. He can handle himself.
**********
Really? So far, he’s doing a pretty poor job of it, because he can’t seem to keep his stories straight.
***************
I am merely pointing out the bias of your arguments to him and by extension, to all of us, since you think we are like the borg and all think alike.
****************
But you do all think alike. Not one of you except Alien (who is what I would call a genuine free thinker), has agreed with any sentiment I’ve expressed here—-not even when I’ve said something positive toward or about one of you. It’s all the same old bashing, name calling and parroting of the latest right wing buzzword du jour.
***************
Besides, I think you wre responding to a post from Kick, and now its gone. Did you delete Kick?
****************
No, Rose, I haven’t “deleted Kick.” For one thing, I have no idea how I’d do that, and, for another, I have no wish to silence any of you. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Ever think that maybe Kick deleted his own post, because he decided that wasn’t what he wanted to say?

GhostntheMachine
Member

“But you do all think alike. Not one of you except Alien (who is what I would call a genuine free thinker), has agreed with any sentiment I’ve expressed here—”

Now I’m throwing the bs flag and penalizing you 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct while taking extreme umbrage at the rudeness of that comment because I’ve agreed with you here in the past. More than once. On the few occasions when you dropped the hyperbole and blanket statements and actually tried to make a valid point.

Olivia
Member

When have you ever agreed with me, Ghost?

GhostntheMachine
Member

Several times back in the day before you went “all the caustic talking points fit (or not) to print” and began your crusade to fill every thread you touch with invectiveness. Not to spark debate in the arena of ideas but to push emotional buttons.

I was even taken to task once, something like “don’t encourage her by agreeing, she’ll just want more attention”, Ha. If memory serves you even responded to that particular comment and backed me up in your own backhanded, convoluted way. Not my problem if you don’t remember.

I stopped reading and giving you the benefit of the doubt during your unconscionable defense of the short-eyed cartoon freak here all those many, many moons ago. And you’ve sealed the deal with your ongoing supererogatory courteous allowance for all things muslim in this county because it’s their “culture”(whatever the hell that means, beheadings, forced marriages, rape and honor killings are longtime fixtures of that antediluvian “culture” too).

So please, if you would, remember Mr. Miyagi’s fence painting lessons and stop spattering me with your broad brush. And while we’re at it, “Wax on, wax off”.

sa_rose
Member

She remembers, don’t you be fooled. She claims amnesia (which given he number of posts she creates actually seems likely) but evey now and again, she slips, harks back to a post from millinia ago and proves she really does remember, she just got had and doesn’t want to suffer it again.

Not so silent
Member

Poppajoe….With her it’s..”These are not the roids your looking for”……

flashingscotsman
Member

Last turd for this morning. I gotta go do stuff.

Olivia
Member

Ghost, all I can make out of that jumbled flight of ideas is:

1) You don’t care if I can’t remember your post(s). Fine. But then don’t complain about it if I forget them.

2) You don’t like the way I treat Muslims as individual human beings, instead of lumping them all together as some sort of monsters in a horror comic book. Tough toenails, my boy. I don’t buy into the anti-Muslim hysteria that some of you spew. I know better than that—-and so, by the way, should you.

3) If you don’t want to be spattered with a broad brush, then, for pity’s sake, stop spattering OTHERS with a broad brush.

4) I have absolutely no idea what you’re referring to, with the “short-eyed cartoon freak” comment. But that’s okay—-I’m really not interested in having you clarify.

poppajoe49
Member

“These are not the droids you are looking for.”

danybhoy
Member

Ghost, you hit on it…

Not to spark debate in the arena of ideas but to push emotional buttons.

…that is what makes the liberal/progressive mind tick. It’s always about emotions, that & the central planning vs nihilism argument. It’s all the left has.

sa_rose
Member

That question was aimed at Kick about his own post. You are NOT the center of the universe.

sa_rose
Member

GH! I found it. It was Not so, not kick who made the comment. Sorry Notsosilent. My bad!

poppajoe49
Member

There is nothing affordable about this healthcare law.

Olivia
Member

Hey, if you can’t afford the insurance policy you want, how about getting up off that underworked butt and getting a (first or second) job, so you CAN afford it?

Isn’t that the same pat remedy you righties constantly recommend to the nation’s poor?

sa_rose
Member

When have you ever heard someone say tht? We have said if one is able, they shoold work doing something. But I have never heard anyone on this board, nor even any politician clain that someone hould have to have 2-3 jobs to pay for insurance. You are spreadng lies, Olivia, and they are far worse than any you have accused us of making.

Olivia
Member

You really, truly haven’t said that people should take financial responsibility for their own health insurance, even if it means taking on an extra job? Oh, well, then, I stand corrected. So, if a person has a job that doesn’t pay benefits (like, say, working at WalMart), and doesn’t pay enough to allow him to buy his own insurance, what is your position?

Do you blame him for taking the job, even if you’re aware that he had few or no alternatives?

Or do you speak up, like me, and put pressure on these companies to pay their employees a living wage, and/or offer affordable health insurance as a benefit?

Or do you believe that it’s the government’s job to provide that insurance for employees who don’t get paid much?

Or do you chicken out of the issue entirely, not wanting to admit that you don’t care what happens to people without insurance, as long as you’ve got yours?

sa_rose
Member

I know lots of people who don’t have isurance. Or the insurance their job offers is worthless. My own children went wthout insurance, despite working 2 jobs each, becase they could not afford the premiums on a plan that would actually cover anything. One of them got VERY ill, and worked out a payment plan to the hospial over several months. Now both of them work in differenct jobs, and have insurane, but they haven’t heard what changes might be instore with Obamacare.

Olivia
Member

I know lots of people who don’t have isurance. Or the insurance their job offers is worthless. My own children went wthout insurance, despite working 2 jobs each, becase they could not afford the premiums on a plan that would actually cover anything.
***********
And apparently you thought such a situation was fine and dandy for Americans to endure, since you so opposed Obama resolving to fix it?

sa_rose
Member

I resist Obamacare because it isn’t going to work. It has more bugs that the website.

poppajoe49
Member

You know what’s funny about that Rose?
She claims that she deletes 3/4 of the post emails, but she manages to reply to EVERY post she TINKS she has a chance to win the argument with, but never seems to find the ones she can’t refute.

sa_rose
Member

And I see that this is one of those posts that get deleted without her reading them. Yeah, right.

http://youtu.be/uPPXO4EQmHA

sa_rose
Member
poppajoe49
Member

BULLSHIT!
All you care about is how you can win an argument, and making your president look good, even if it’s at the expense of the healthcare of over 250 million people. You don’t give a shit that 250 million people are paying more for healthcare, lose the policies they have had for years, and are bankrupted by the new rates and deductibles, as long as a small number of people who are otherwise uninsurable, get covered at a price that nobody woud have offered, and someone else pays for it!
Got a link to show I’m wrong?
I didn’t think so.

Olivia
Member

In one situation, there was a primary doctor that lived on an island off RhodeIsland. It has about 1000 yearround residents, and in the summer is a big tourist stop. Now there is no doctor there. If one is ill, they have to fly or take a ferry 11 miles to the coast. And in bad weather, neither optionis available. Explain to me how their acess to care has improved?
*************
It hasn’t, of course, if what you say is true. But I’m still waiting for you to tell me how YOU think health care reform should have been done. You’re worried to death over 1000 Rhode Island residents; well, I’m worried about the 50 MILLION who had no health care plan prior to the ACA.

In the best of all possible worlds, this plan would roll out without a single hitch, and no Americans at all would be disappointed by it. But this is the real world, and we’re inevitably going to see a lot of glitches, just as we did when social security and Medicare were rolled out.

Most of the gripes the right seems to have have been the result of insurance company business decisions. Which serves only to reinforce what I’ve said at least two dozen times here: anyone who won’t trust the government to do right by you, but DOES trust Big Business to give YOUR well-being precedence over profit potential, is a fool.

Yet the right keeps arguing that, if only we would give the insurance industry MORE power and FEWER regulations, they’d make us all happy and contented for a very small price.

Now, I ask you: does that even make sense?

poppajoe49
Member

MGAP, I saw a truck with a pic of Obama on the back, it said:
“Does this ass make my truck look big?”

MGAP
Member

It’s easy to trash existing law. It’s a lot harder to come up with an alternate idea that would work better, for less money. And I don’t mean a cop-out like arguing that if people just worked harder they could afford to buy a private policy on their own. Let’s stick with the real world on this one.
******************************************

Translation; I’m a communist and don’t know better. Do these panties make my ass look big?

Olivia
Member

Never mind, Rose. I found the story on a right wing website.

It appears that “booting” these physicians was a business decision by the insurance company, which is obviously looking for cost cutting measures.

That’s the problem with a health care system that’s heavily dependent on for-profit companies: those companies are going to do whatever they can to enhance profits, whether or not that was the intention when the act was passed.

I see a lot of you here hoping against hope that the ACA will fail. Well, I think it’s much too early to tell how it will do in the long term, but I would like to know what YOUR solution is. So far, I’ve seen chorus after chorus after chorus of “DOWN WITH OBAMACARE!”….but the only alternative solution offered has been “Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines.”

Great. The GOP solution to the health care crisis is to deregulate insurance companies still further (because of course they would all immediately flock to the state with the laxest regulations). Which will do nothing for the people who are unprofitable to insure. Whether 5 or 5000 companies are competing for business, NONE of them are going to be interested in signing up the unprofitable customers. Which is exactly why government is involved with health care in the first place.

So chew on that for a bit. I’m off to sleep before work tonight, so I won’t be around much for a few hours. When I’m back, I’d love to see your ideas of how to fix our broken health care system, since it’s obvious that you don’t like Obama’s ideas.

It’s easy to trash existing law. It’s a lot harder to come up with an alternate idea that would work better, for less money. And I don’t mean a cop-out like arguing that if people just worked harder they could afford to buy a private policy on their own. Let’s stick with the real world on this one.

Olivia
Member

It was reported only yesterday that thousands of doctors have been booted off United Healthcare’s MMedicare C plans. Those are the medicare advantage plans. No reson has been given for the suspensions, and those same doctors still have active contracts for the non medicare policies. Where arethosepeople going to go? In one situation, there was a primary doctor that lived on an island off RhodeIsland. It has about 1000 yearround residents, and in the summer is a big tourist stop. Now there is no doctor there. If one is ill, they have to fly or take a ferry 11 miles to the coast. And in bad weather, neither optionis available. Explain to me how their acess to care has improved?
****************
Let’s see now. You’ve just paraphrased a story to me, without bothering to provide a link, which tells me that you’re not too interested in accuracy.

Tell you what: provide the link (preferably to a reasonably unbiased source rather than an ‘ain’t it awful” opinion piece), and then we’ll discuss what’s going on and why.

sa_rose
Member

Becasue I am listening to the experts that say this is a nightmare. It was reported only yesterday that thousands of doctors have been booted off United Healthcare’s MMedicare C plans. Those are the medicare advantage plans. No reson has been given for the suspensions, and those same doctors still have active contracts for the non medicare policies. Where arethosepeople going to go? In one situation, there was a primary doctor that lived on an island off RhodeIsland. It has about 1000 yearround residents, and in the summer is a big tourist stop. Now there is no doctor there. If one is ill, they have to fly or take a ferry 11 miles to the coast. And in bad weather, neither optionis available. Explain to me how their acess to care has improved? And yes, I think I am as able if not more so to understand Obamacare and its fallacies over any Democrat. What, being a Democrat makes you all knowing? ‘Fraid not.

Olivia
Member

And you’re convinced that you’re better qualified than any Democrat to predict “Obamacare’s” future success or failure, because……?

Rose, you’ve already been reminded that ANY program of this magnitude and complexity will have plenty of glitches when it’s first rolled out. If you’re that concerned about it not working, why not urge your Republican representatives to stop trying to sabotage it, and start helping to make it a success?

poppajoe49
Member

Over 40 posts on this thread alone in one day by an obsessive compulsive, libtard, troll!
That must be some kind of record. That many posts without making a bit of sense.
In fact, making 88 posts on a single thread without making sense must also be a record. However, I fully expect that record to be broken when she wakes up and comes back here for her next round of obsessing over being right, no matter how wrong she is.
That said, I’m done with this thread. She has gone over the top, attacking my wife, without any knowlege of the woman, in her quest to one-up someone. It is getting tiresome, and I feel no further need to explain myself, my wife, or our choices. Let it be said that we are doing what is best for us, and nothing Oblivious thinks will change that.

flashingscotsman
Member

Imagine being around her in person. You’d never get a word in edgewise. Of course, you’d die on the floor with a puddle blood running from your ears, but that’s just details.

poppajoe49
Member

And, even better, she won’t come here and say anything in her defense, because she knows it would be an admission of guilt.

sa_rose
Member

She is a narcissist. Probably why she loves Obama so. Birds of a feather, you know? She is truly convinced in her warped mind that her point of view and her take on anything is the absolutel correct one, and she is frustrated, because she can’t understand why no one will gt on board with what she has to say, think, do whatever. The idea tha maybe, just maybe, sheis off a little in her analysis eith er neveroccurs to her, or if it does, she immediately shakes her head ans says, that’s not the problem. Its our unillingness to bend to her will that is the problem.

poppajoe49
Member

And, I was right. It didn’t even have to take until the next morning before she got her second ill wind and restart being the nasty bitch we all know.

poppajoe49
Member

Seriously Olivia, you need to do something about this obsession you have. 11 hours of nonstop bitching at everyone here? Your daddy issues are much worse than even I thought. Isn’t it time for you to get a life? What does your husband think about all the time you spend here trying to prove you’re right and everyone else is wrong, or is he just enjoying the peace and quiet? I’m sure he must be drinking heavily after all this time being married to you.

flashingscotsman
Member

Two more smelly turds.

My Dear Sweet Olivia can’t get it through her head that the problem isn’t getting the insurance PJ WANTS, but being able to afford the insurance that Obamacare is FORCING on him.

Olivia
Member

Flash, Obama isn’t “forcing” anything on Poopajoe. If he and his wife choose, they can get up off their butts and WORK to buy any insurance plan they wish, up to and including the BC/BS policy he said she wants. But they don’t want to do that—-so they’re stuck with options they don’t like.

I repeat: you right wingnuts are so fond of demanding that “those people” who receive “welfare” stop lolling around expecting everyone else to give them what they want, and go work for it. Well, how come, when one of your own sits on his derriere and demands that Obama give his wife BC/BS for the prices whe wants to pay, you’re all blaming Obama but not the energy-challenged guy who’s doing the demanding?

Seems to me that that means either that

1) Poopajoe and his wife aren’t very interested in working to improve their lot, or

2) maybe financially strapped people DON’T have all those rosy options that you keep insisting poor people have, but just don’t want to take advantage of.

So which is it, Flash? Is Poopajoe a lazy “gimme” person, or is it that he doesn’t have the options that you righties INSIST that everyone has, and that only laziness prevents them from accessing?

sa_rose
Member

Where do you get off saying Poppa desn’t work? Or that his wife doesn’t work? You are confabulating agan Livvy. Go take your meds.

Olivia
Member

I didn’t say he and his wife don’t work, Rose. I said he’s whining about being unable to afford insurance for her. I merely suggested that he take his own advice (the advice he’s so handy with for selected poor Americans) and work harder to make more money.

I was being satirical, of course (just to give him an idea of how insensitive he sounds when he accuses the poor of being lazy), but I see it flew right over his and your heads.

sa_rose
Member

And of course not knowing Jack about pools, you are unaware that Poops’ s medical conditions qualify him for disability. But instead of taking it, he continues to work for everything he wants/needs. You know NOTHING about us, but you are more than ready to make sweeping,incorrect assumptions about all of us. Why don’t you give us the same. Courtesy you extend to all receiving government assistance. They all deserve it. Maybe we do too. And most of those who work work fulltime, while you work part time and live off the money your spouse earns.

flashingscotsman
Member

I guess I should work harder too. I’d LOVE to have My Dear Sweet Olivia follow me around for a day of my work. Not DO the work, mind you, just follow me around. She’d pass out from the exertion. Right after scaring all my customers away.

And by the way, I also qualify for disability. I would get a much nicer retirement check, on top of the disability payment, if I filed. But then I wouldn’t be allowed to do my job, and I love my job.

sa_rose
Member

You beleive everything thelibs tell you. I research and apply my knowlege and education, andexperience which tells me they are wrong. When you have spents some 20 years dealing with medicaid and welfare recipients, we’ll talk. Until then you are speaking out your backside, because you know nothing of what goes on. MMany are legitimately in need of alll the assistance we can provide and then some. But a sigificant number are scamming the system. And getting hooked into federal assistance, immediatleymakes them eligible for all sorts of other things. Charities provide Thankgiving and Christmas dinners, toys for the childen, free books and shoes, supplies and unforms for schooll It is not right for the scammers to take tese free things when others who actually DO Need them are felt out in the cold. Right now my Church has started it Worhipper for Warmth campaign. THey collect coats, blankets. mittens, hats gloves, scarves etc and istribute them to the refugees in our area. Another group monthly offers personal hygeine items, clothing, and school supplies, as well as children’sbooks. If they need it, I am all for them getting it. But I despise the cheaters, the scammers who take what they don’t need but would simply rather have to not pay.

Olivia
Member

And of course not knowing Jack about pools, you are unaware that Poops’ s medical conditions qualify him for disability. But instead of taking it, he continues to work for everything he wants/needs. You know NOTHING about us, but you are more than ready to make sweeping,incorrect assumptions about all of us.
*************
You really aren’t very good at grasping irony, are you, Rose?

I’ve already explained to you, at least twice, in detail, that I’m showing you right wingers exactly why it’s a bad idea to make snap assumptions about people you don’t know.

My comments above are virtually identical to the comments you, Poopajoe and just about everyone else on this board made about those phantom “welfare” recipients you love to bash. You know, the ones that you ASSUME “refuse” to work, who always have their hands out demanding that “Uncle Sugar” give them “free stuff”?

I’m sitting her observing you wax indignant that anyone would DARE make such unfair assumptions about one of their own…..yet you’re willing to do the very same thing to people you don’t know, who (unlike Poopajoe) don’t get a chance to defend themselves to you.

See? That’s why IT’S ALWAYS A BAD IDEA TO MAKE BIGOTED ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT OTHERS. That’s why it’s always a bad idea to support legislation designed to punish a faceless group, rather than legislation designed to benefit all.

Bleeding heart liberal that I am, I’m willing to vote for measures that would ENSURE that Poopajoe and his wife need never play Russian roulette with their health again. I WANT to see his wife able to afford to go to the doctor, to get mammograms and Pap tests and colonoscopies and routine blood work and full physicals at the prescribed intervals.

But I also want to see every other American have that opportunity, regardless of race, ethnicity, age, marital status, creed (or lack thereof), sexual orientation and whether or not some myopic right winger thinks s/he’s a bum. I realize (as apparently most of you don’t) that denying affordable health care to tens of millions, like refusing to change the oil in your car, is a false economy, and will result in huge, preventable expenses and waste further down the road.

poppajoe49
Member
sa_rose
Member

She likely won’t even look at it. It might challenge her adoraton of all things Obama.

PsychoDad
Guest

Oh gang, it’s better, er worse, er, however you want to frame it:

“If those who are being dropped by their insurance companies due to #Obamacare (16 million) made up a state, it would be 5th largest in U.S.”

http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspot.com/2013/10/week-two-of-obamacare-federal-health.html#more

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/28/bam-rep-price-puts-the-o-care-cancellation-notice-avalanche-in-devastating-perspective/

Gee, what ever happened to “If you like your current plan, you can keep it?”

Olivia
Member

Psycho, those are opinion pieces you’re citing there, not information pieces. Did you not notice that Price didn’t bother to back up his claim with statistics? That your whole argument here is based on an unsubstantiated Twitter comment?

PsychoDad
Guest

Ha ha, all those married queer guys have to have maternity coverage, isn’t that part of the problem?!? LOL, what was a catastrophic fustercluck.

Olivia
Member

You do realize, don’t you, that homosexual women (called “lesbians,” in case you hadn’t heard of them before) can and do get pregnant, and require the same medical assistance that heterosexual women in the same situation require?

poppajoe49
Member

Reading and comprehension my bitch:

all those married queer guys

What part of GUYS don’t you understand?

Olivia
Member

So do you have statistics showing that a large percentage of male same-sex couples are ‘demanding’ insurance coverage for obstetrical visits and procedures?

Didn’t think so.

poppajoe49
Member

Dumb scrunt, it is a requirement of Obamacare! They don’t want or need it, but are being forced to carry it, just like my post menopausal wife would be.

Olivia
Member

And, again, Poopajoe, that’s the nature of health insurance.

Apparently you have very little experience with choosing or buying health insurance policies, if you didn’t know that they’re not usually custom tailored to suit each client’s needs.

They’re like those baseball caps with the plastic tab on the back to adjust to the size of the individual’s head: it’s a whole lot more economical for the company to offer one-size-fits-all policies, than it is to create a different one for each person.

Keep on going, Poopajoe. The more you argue about this issue, the more obvious it becomes that you’re expecting something for nothing, or at least a whole lot for very little. You want a custom tailored policy for your wife; be prepared to pay for the privilege.

sa_rose
Member

The hats you reference aren’t “one size fits all.” THey are adjustable to fit the individual. Just saying.

Olivia
Member

The hats you reference aren’t “one size fits all.” THey are adjustable to fit the individual. Just saying.
************
Yes, Rose, that was my point. That’s why I used the term “to adjust to the size of the individual’s head” in my post.

sa_rose
Member

But you compared them to Insurance policies that ARE one size fits all. as opposed to clients being able to choose some of the services provided in their insurance, and refuse those they will never need or use.

flashingscotsman
Member

Just had this discussion yesterday with a leftist moron on FB. He seems to think that, just as I pay taxes to support schools, even though I don’t have any kids, I should pay insurance to cover maternity care, even though neither I, nor anyone I might have sex with, will ever get pregnant.

Then he brought up the fact that I’m required to carry insurance on my truck, by the State of California. Yes, I am. But only liability is required. If I want other kinds of coverage, I can purchase those separately. And if I didn’t own a truck, I wouldn’t be required to carry insurance on one. I don’t OWN a vagina, nor do I OWN a penis that can impregnate one. (having had a vasectomy 36 years ago) Therefore, I shouldn’t be required to pay for insurance against an eventuality that can never possibly happen.

poppajoe49
Member

But, your truck might get him pregnant, so you need that coverage!

sa_rose
Member

Actually, yes, if she still drives AT ALL. In Texas, she is required to carry a non-owner’s policy to cover her liability at least if she is in a crash!

GhostntheMachine
Member

And what about my dear 97 yr. old G-ma (bless her heart)? She doesn’t own a truck (or car), should she be required to have insurance too?

flashingscotsman
Member

That’s true. In the wacko world of the left.

flashingscotsman
Member

A nice, fresh, steaming, morning turd.

poppajoe49
Member

Jesus Christ, you are spinning so badly that I’m not at all surprised you’re so fucking dizzy!

sa_rose
Member

What does that have to do with anything? The thread states a shitload of people are getting canned by their insurance, because te new policies have higher requirements that the old ones. That’s it. It really is happening across the nation and no amount of unicorn farts is going to make it any different. You have arrgued allla around the subject, but caregull avoided the trugh that has been deliniated. It doesn’t matter how we feel about insurance, or the need to cover the uninsured, or their need for insurance. IN leading up to this boondoggle that I have always said has nothing to do with healthcare, and is all about PAYMENT for healthcare. And the lies we were told, and the political manipulations done to gt the bill passed again, had nothing to do with improving life for the impoverished. We were lied to again and again,, and now that they are trying to roll it out, the lies come tumbling out right along with it. You unwillingness or inability to see what’s right in front of you is exactly what I meant about treating Obama as a messiah.

Olivia
Member

And the lies we were told, and the political manipulations done to gt the bill passed again, had nothing to do with improving life for the impoverished.
*********
Actually, yes, it did, but FAUX News would never in a million years admit it to you.

Besides, what do you care? The Republicans (and FAUX News, their 24/7 propaganda service) have shown zero interest in “improving life for the impoverished.” Their focus, all along, has been that we shouldn’t care about helping the poor, because they’re all lazy bums who don’t want to help themselves.

You seem to be just fine and dandy with that attitude….so why are you now bitching about the Democrats supposedly not caring enough?

flashingscotsman
Member

Never hurts to have two morning turds, though. I think I’ll go for three.

poppajoe49
Member

And, once again, you prove that you don’t read, or comprehend, or you simply refuse to accept the fact that Rose has told you hundreds of times that she doesn’t get FOX News, she doesn’t have cable. But then you don’t care, because it gets in the way of your prepared narrative.

Olivia
Member

Rose, I’d like to see your statistics supporting your claim that “a shitload of people are getting canned by their insurance.”

Once you’ve produced that (yeah, right), maybe you can tell us what YOU think should be done to ensure that all Americans have affordable health care. And please don’t even bother trotting out the usual “Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines” and “Let the free market take care of it” right wing mantra. Those ideas will do zilch for those who most need insurance right now—–i.e., the ones who didn’t have and couldn’t get affordable health care prior to reform measures.

I’m also not a bit interested in the glib right wing “most of them don’t deserve insurance because they’re too lazy” excuse. Unless you’re prepared to come out and admit that you’re fine with condemning selected Americans to untreated disease and premature death, that’s just a cowardly evasion from the issue.

sa_rose
Member

Oh, Livvy, Livvy, Livvy. How little faith!

http://youtu.be/q3wf1XptDhE

poppajoe49
Member

We’ve already posted links to ABC, NBC, and CBS stories that hundreds of thousands in Florida and California have lost their insurance. In fact, this thread is all about that, it’s just that you have so badly hijacked it, that you forgot what the OP was all about.

sa_rose
Member

Invitro fertilization. VEEEERRYY expensive.

Olivia
Member

Rose, a woman without fertility issues doesn’t need in vitro fertilization. To put it bluntly, a willing donor and a turkey baster syringe will do just as well.

Heterosexual women have been known to use the same technique.

sa_rose
Member

Actually, that is a fallacy. It is a delicate procedure, and doesn’t always “take” even if done in a doctor’s office wilth a well trained physican. I can’t believe as a nurse you would reference a turkey baster. Oh, wait. Yeah, I guess I can.

Olivia
Member

I’m just telling it like it is, Rose. Not everyone runs to a doctor when they want to get pregnant, but don’t have, and aren’t looking for, a boyfriend or a husband.

I didn’t realize it was inappropriate for nurses to know about turkey basters. Would it make it less offensive to you if I called it an irrigation syringe instead?

sa_rose
Member

I am not surprise you know of them. I am surprised that you would in any way refer to them as a way to get artificially inseminated. Cows get better tha that!

Olivia
Member

Rose, I didn’t say I admire or recommend the turkey baster procedure—-I just pointed out that people sometimes use such methods.

Makes more sense, I guess, then having sex with someone who means nothing to you, except as a sperm donor. And it definitely makes more sense than going to a fertility specialist, if you don’t have a problem with infertility.

poppajoe49
Member

Amazing that someone who is supposed to be a medical professional actually believes that bullshit.

Alien
Member

You think a turkey baster wouldn’t work? (context is women without fertility issues)

It’d be highly unpleasant, but I’m sure my untrained medical self could pull it off

Olivia
Member

It’d be highly unpleasant, but I’m sure my untrained medical self could pull it off
***********************
….speaking figuratively, I assume……….? ;>)

BlizzardCreek
Member

Olivia,

I have been reading your posts for a while. I must say that you are one intelligent person who is quite knowledgeable. Have you ever considered making a blog with all the writing you have done? I’m sure it would be a great hit.

Keep up the good work. Even though you may have a lot of downvotes, there are many people out there who admire your posts.

Not so silent
Member

Olivia’s boyfriend, and cat sitter….no surprise there..

sa_rose
Member

A blog would be great. SHe could spew there and we could CHOOSE whether we want to see it or not, and our in boxes will be free and easy once more.

Olivia
Member

Thank you, Blizzard. :>D

poppajoe49
Member

Obviously, the low info voters reelected Obama after all.

GhostntheMachine
Member

Don’t forget the standing on the head and the important role gravity plays in that highly complex medical procedure.

Not so silent
Member

Its nothing but talking points..Libtards can’t function without them or a teleprompter……I doubt she is in the medical profession, that came up the last time the ghost of libtards past visited IHTM….I am thinking she is more of a floor scrubber on the night shift at some board and care facility where the patients rot in their own filth….But hey I could be just “picking” on the libtard since nothing I say about her is P.C. anymore…

Olivia
Member

Silent? I never claimed to be in the “medical profession,” as that would make me a physician. I’m in the nursing profession.

The rest of your post is a transparent attempt at insults, to cover up for the fact that you can’t refute my comments here.

sa_rose
Member

HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Everyone on this board has refuted yourt points Livvy! With links to variousdocuments, youtue recordings, etc to support what they say, You rarely, if ever provide link to anything. You comments are just that. our comments. They have no basis in fact, and as such, are generally wrong when examined. You are SOOOOOO delusional! God Help you husband. well, I guess he must live in LALA land as well.

Olivia
Member

HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Everyone on this board has refuted yourt points Livvy! With links to variousdocuments, youtue recordings, etc to support what they say
****************
Wrong, Rose. The fact is that many of those “cancellations” are due to the fact that certain highly profitable insurance practices (like arbitrarily cancelling when the insuree gets seriously ill, or lifetiime ceilings on mental health treatment) are no longer legal. Obviously, these policies have to be revamped in order to meet the new guidelines.

That’s no more scandalous than it would be for a baby crib manufacturer to recall a bunch of cribs because they were painted in China, using paint containing lead, which is illegal here in the U.S. But saying, “Thousands of insurance policies have been pulled out of circulation because they need to be altered to conform with the new laws” doesn’t grab the attention as readily as “THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS JUST LOST THEIR INSURANCE AS A RESULT OF ‘OBAMACARE’!”

That’s one mistake you keep making here: you watch a Youtube video (which, 9 times out of 10, has been carefully edited to shape your thinking), and take it as gospel instead of going to the trouble to get the whole story. Of course, that’s exactly what the right WANTS you to do. It’s called “stacking the deck,” and is yet another classic propaganda technique.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/31/us-usa-healthcare-cigna-idUSBRE99U15O20131031

flashingscotsman
Member

That’s what I was looking for. A nice steaming morning turd. Now I can go on about my business for the day.

poppajoe49
Member

Still way better than the links you provide, oh, wait, you don’t provide any links, just your opinion, which is totally worthless.

Olivia
Member

Rose, I hate to burst your bubble, but most of the links provided here (by you as well as some others) are hardly reliable. Take, for example, your Youtube link related to the Cinco de Mayo T shirt case. It was supposedly a news show, but it was obviously designed to elicit a particular response from viewers. Watch it again, and notice the first thing out of the guy’s mouth. Not an overall synopsis of the incident, as would be standard for news reporting, but a question to the audience as to whether they thought the school’s actions were “fair.”

That’s not news. That’s political cheerleading. And it’s worth LESS than providing no link at all, because such tactics often stack the deck, thereby slanting the viewer’s perception before s/he even hears the story.

PsychoDad
Guest

How does a faithfully married lez get pregnant?

Olivia
Member

I’d like to read the article you’re citing, Poopajoe. Got a link to it?

I really, really hope it’s a bona fide news article, and not one of those National Enquirer style “this is outrageous!” liefests that you usually seem to get your information from. If it turns out to be true (which is a big IF) that makes about as fine a case for fully socialized medicine as anything I’ve yet seen.

poppajoe49
Member

Talk about unbelievably dense!
It’s the article linked in the OP!
None other than the Obama sycophantic NBC news!
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/thousands-get-health-insurance-cancellation-notices-8C11417913

Sidekick
Member

Here is more. The total number of otherwise insured people losing their coverage is in the millions.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/millions-americans-are-losing-their-health-plans-because-obamacare_764602.html

This flies in the face of the President’s promise that people could keep their doctors or insurance. Central planners don’t know or care about the things that actually occur as a result of their actions.

As an anecdote, my company changed insurers for 2014. More expensive than what I had and the copays and deductibles are much higher. The hospital chain my wife works for does not accept our new insurance (CIGNA). So that takes 11 local hospitals off the list of places we can go if needed.

poppajoe49
Member

Not surprising Kick, everything about this law sucks, except for the retards like my bitch, who hasn’t seen the increase in her premiums yet. I expect to see her disappear from here when that happens.

Olivia
Member

Since you’ve always enjoyed the benefits of socialized medicine, Poopajoe, what would you know about insurance premiums?

poppajoe49
Member

Since I have only had VA healthcare for 3 years, what the fuck would you know, you stupid bitch?
I EARNED my healthcare from the VA, but didn’t use it until I had to. I have always had my own insurance except for the 5 years I was in the military.
Sorry to burst your bias bubble, but you don’t know shit.

Not so silent
Member

She is just wasting here breath like always, she is a libtard with no point of view other than the fuhrer in D.C……

Olivia
Member

Oh, put a cork in it, Poopajoe. You don’t even bother to carry health insurance, so what would you even know about what health care premiums are doing this year?

poppajoe49
Member

Because I shopped for them you stupid scrunt.

TURDS!

Olivia
Member

Oh, SUUUUUURE you did. You just got done arguing that you don’t need health insurance because you’re healthy (or so you assume)—but now you claim you “shopped for” health care for your wife, and the cost suddenly tripled?

Your nose is growing, Poopajoe.

Olivia
Member

Yes, I am on Social Security diability for End stage renal disease. THey don’t even look at my asthma, medication caused diabetes, spinal curvature, hypothyroidism et al. Essentially, though I have retired. My social security check is based on the nember of quarterw i worked and paid into the system, So its a little different thatn someone who never worked a days, was involved in and MVA and is now in a wheechair. And that person will endo up not on Social Security disability, but on suplemental social security which is very little and almost always results in getting other assistance, including food stamps. housing assistance, medicaid. etc/ And I think that is just fine. Its the 20 somethings who get their girlfriends pregnant, then sit in the food stam office with an arm draped possesively over her shoulder as she waits to apply for food stamps, housing, medicaid, etc. HE could be out working, or looking for a job, rather than wasting time in the office with her.
***************
Well, first of all, I’m truly sorry that you have to cope with all those medical issues at once.

Second, you’re rattling out stereotypes there, based on glib assumptions. Surely you, of all people, should realize that disabling medical and psychiatric disorders aren’t always readily visible to the casual observer—-and that the people who actually read and process these clients’ applications are better qualified than you to decide whether or not they’re entitled to financial assistance.

One question I have, not just for you but for others who share your feelings about “these people” (we all know WHICH people most here are talking about, even though they won’t admit it): how do you feel about women who were homemakers all their lives? Do they, too, qualify as “people who never worked a day” and therefore are mooching off the government?

sa_rose
Member

No. They had a full time job running their households, chauffering the kids, entertaining to support their husband’s career. And I am not making glib assumptions. I have sat (for hours at a time) in food stamp offices, which in my area, also handle medicaid applications, though qualifying is very different for each plan. And I hve care for Medicaid patients, who tell mnethey have aworking spouse or boyfriend, but he is illegal, and gets paid under the table, so his income is not counted. I have seen food stamp applications where one “family” includes 30 people. About half still live in Mexico, but the all have SSN’s. There IS much abuse of the sytem. Just because you live in lala land doesn’t man the rest of us are living in a sack. We SEE what is happening! Hell, the news cannel report on it, even your precious Big 3, wh all clearly lean left. As several of us have repeatedly said that we are not against helping those in need. We just don’t want to enable those who COULD do more for them selves to do it.

Olivia
Member

No. They had a full time job running their households, chauffering the kids, entertaining to support their husband’s career.
*****************
Oh, so you’re okay with giving social program benefits to SOME women who have never worked a day in their lives, but not others.

That’s kind of a slippery slope, Rose. Who’s to decide which never-worked-a-day-in-their-lives women get the goodies, and which don’t. Because not all women with productive and hardworking husbands are go-getters, nor are all black women in the ghetto all lazy slackers.
*************************
And I hve care for Medicaid patients, who tell mnethey have aworking spouse or boyfriend, but he is illegal, and gets paid under the table, so his income is not counted. I have seen food stamp applications where one “family” includes 30 people.
******************
If you’ve got as much experience as that, then you KNOW how foolish it is to jump to conclusions about a person’s work ethic or character, based only on his/her ethnicity, parenthood, love life, mailing address or fashion choices. You KNOW that some people who look respectable and modest and conventional are actually lazy slobs and/or alcoholics, and that some people who are black or Mexican or who have a lot of kids are respectable hard workers.

If you DIDN’T learn that, then you were apparently busier nursing prejudices than actually looking at the people in front of you, and noting that appearances can be deceptive.

sa_rose
Member

He HAS health insurance as a veteran. He can be treated at any veteran”s hospital or clinic. He has repetitively stated his WIFE has nothing, and that they could not afford the new rates for insurance for HER. You need to have that short term memory loss checked out. You may be developing Alzheimers’s. Or dementia.

Olivia
Member

There’s nothing wrong with my memory, Rose. The fact is, I don’t pay that much attention to Poopajoe’s stated situation, because I think he spews more BS than truths here anyway.

Sorry, but I don’t have much sympathy for right wingers who whine that they can’t afford insurance. I’ve seen Poopajoe show zero sympathy for the plight of the working poor, claiming that if they weren’t lazy they wouldn’t have these problems. So I’m wondering why he doesn’t apply that snap solution to his own life.

You see, I’ve seen excuse after excuse from the right.

When we wanted universal health care (during the Clinton administration), they screamed in horror and said that’s SOCIALISM! Can’t have that—it makes people lazy and shiftless! Health insurance should come from the EMPLOYER, not the “gubmint”—that way, if you’re too lazy to work, you don’t get coverage.

So when the Democrats proposed that we REQUIRE employers to offer health care to employees, they screamed that THAT’S NOT FAIR TO EMPLOYERS! IT’LL HURT THEIR BUSINESS! YOU CAN’T DO THAT!

So when Obama adapted an old Republican strategy that combined some government restrictions with a FREE MARKET SOLUTION, they all started wringing their hands and saying, “BUT IT’S TOO EXPENSIVE! I CAN’T AFFORD IT!” (No mention was made of getting off their fat duffs and taking a second and even a third job if necessary, as they so often recommend to poor inner-city Americans who aren’t making it on fast food wages.)

Bottom line: we could all send Poopajoe big sums of money through Paypal to finance his wife’s insurance, and he’d still complain that it can’t be done. The fact is that he’s less interested in taking responsibility for his family health care needs, than he is in bitching endlessly about Obama.

poppajoe49
Member

That doesn’t matter, Walmart doesn’t deserve to make a profit as long as one alcoholic, drug user, can’t afford plastic surgery.

/sarc

flashingscotsman
Member

My Dear Sweet Olivia thinks that 49.5% of the country is sick or disabled.

Did anyone else watch the video of the Wal Mart that got over ran in Louisiana when the EBT cards lost their limits? I did, and I couldn’t find anyone there that looked disabled. Unless you consider, like liberals do, that being black is a disability.

sa_rose
Member

Yes, I am on Social Security diability for End stage renal disease. THey don’t even look at my asthma, medication caused diabetes, spinal curvature, hypothyroidism et al. Essentially, though I have retired. My social security check is based on the nember of quarterw i worked and paid into the system, So its a little different thatn someone who never worked a days, was involved in and MVA and is now in a wheechair. And that person will endo up not on Social Security disability, but on suplemental social security which is very little and almost always results in getting other assistance, including food stamps. housing assistance, medicaid. etc/ And I think that is just fine. Its the 20 somethings who get their girlfriends pregnant, then sit in the food stam office with an arm draped possesively over her shoulder as she waits to apply for food stamps, housing, medicaid, etc. HE could be out working, or looking for a job, rather than wasting time in the office with her.

PsychoDad
Guest

Oh please sugar, come over and sign up for a Twitchy account, we could have SO much fun with you over there!

PS — Schadenfreude Alert Level – Exquisite!

“Could the president please explain why I and others are losing our health ins. plans? Wasn’t supposed to happen!—
patti davis (@patti_davis) October 25, 2013”

Yes, the daughter of the late great Ronald Reagan has a case of the weepies.

Olivia
Member

Snitty today aren’t we? You are the on who refuses acknowledge the obvious. Right now 49.5% of the US population is receiving government assistance some kind. While that is appalling in the richest country in the world, it is also a little scary. How long do you think before we pass the tipping point and cannot support he remaining population? WhY will happen to the truly ill, disabled and ill?
****************
What’s your reason for assuming that people other than yourself who receive assistance aren’t “truly” disabled or ill?

Your knowledge about those people is no more reliable than mine about you. If I were in the habit of making snap judgments about people, I’d say your posts make it sound as if you’re perfectly capable of working; yet others here tell me you’re disabled.

Is it safe to say that maybe I don’t have all the facts, and that there really ARE good reasons for you to be (as so many right wingers so viciously put it) “sucking on the government teat”? That’s what I’m assuming. You, on the other hand, seem to be assuming that you can tell at a glance which people AREN’T “truly ill or disabled.”

As the Bible (that book that right wingers like to use as a political weapon) says, “Judge not lest you be judged, and by the same standard that you yourself have applied.” In other words, Rose, if you’re going to accuse many or most of those receiving government support as cheaters and malingerers, the day may come when someone does that very same thing to you.

For the record, I’m willing to take your word for it that you’re no malingerer and leave it at that. Why won’t you do others the same courtesy?

sa_rose
Member

Snitty today aren’t we? You are the on who refuses acknowledge the obvious. Right now 49.5% of the US population is receiving government assistance some kind. While that is appalling in the richest country in the world, it is also a little scary. How long do you think before we pass the tipping point and cannot support he remaining population? WhY will happen to the truly ill, disabled and ill?

poppajoe49
Member

You miss the point. I said we couldn’t afford OBAMACARE insurance. Since we have been paying CASH for all my wife’s healthcare for some time now, we haven’t taken anything from anyone for her care.
I don’t give a flying fuck if you don’t believe what I say here, the people that actually count know I am telling the truth. I have personally met 3 of the folks here, and they know me to be truthful, so take your ugly troll ass down the road and talk to someone who gives a shit.

poppajoe49
Member

Stupid scrunt, my wife wanted to find out how much insurance was because she’s pushing 60 and is concerned she may need some procedures at some point in the near future. That’s how I know what it was last year. Now, with her freaking out over HAVING to get insurance or be fined, I shopped again and found the price increase.

Now go fuck yourself bitch.

Olivia
Member

I think it’s hilarious that people like you bitch and bitch and bitch about the poor supposedly failing to “Take Personal Responsibility”—–but then balk at taking responsibility for your own health care.

Exactly what I’ve found over and over among the most vocal right wingers: “Personal Responsibility” is something for OTHER people (especially brown skinned people who live in cities and vote Democratic) to demonstrate. You, on the other hand, are entitled to take without giving, as much as possible and as often as possible.

Can you say “hypocrisy”?

poppajoe49
Member

Paying for our own healthcare costs is taking personal responsibility you moronic troll.

Paden
Member

I call spell it to…

L.I.B.E.R.A.L

Sidekick
Member

Yeah, I read her reply. We changed insurers because the bc/bs plan we had became too expensive. Without the ACA that decision would not have to have been made. It is that simple.

poppajoe49
Member

Yea kick, I had shopped BC/BS last year for my wife, the rates were about 1/3 what they are now, mainly because we could design the plan coverage we wanted, now you are having coverage imposed on you, and it gets way more expensive that way.

Sidekick
Member

As an aside, Democratic Rep Dingall just echoed, during the ACA website hearing, the President’s words that health care is a right. That is not an insignificant statement.

poppajoe49
Member

Yea kick, it’s a right that the goobermint has to force on you. A real cool bonus, isn’t it?
Seems to me that healthcare was one of those “rights” that the founders left out of the Bill of Rights. I also don’t remember anyone putting an amendment in the Constitution that adds it as a right, so there is a bit of a problem with their statements.

Olivia
Member

That’s where you (and many other right wingers) keep screwing up, Poopajoe. The Constitution isn’t a laundry list of rights, and just because a right isn’t listed in it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. For example, the Constitution doesn’t specify that you have a right to own your own guns—just to bear arms. Does that mean you can’t own guns, then? No, because the Second Amendment has been historically interpreted as implying a right to own firearms, as well as to use them.

So it’s by no means a given that Americans DON’T have a right to health care. It’s a tricky issue, because if we all agree that they don’t, it means that hospital ERs aren’t obligated to treat you if they don’t want to; doctors can refuse to perform lifesaving surgery if you don’t have the means to pay for it; and there will be a lot of indigent Americans dying in the streets for lack of medical treatment.

Do you think such a scenario is in the best interests of a civilized nation that hopes to retain its rank as world leader? I don’t.

poppajoe49
Member

Flash, that doesn’t matter, as long as you’re paying for someone else’s insurance!
Oblivious said so.

flashingscotsman
Member

“It’s also bad for a hospital’s reputation to be known as a place that rejects patients, for any reason. Extremely bad business practice.”

You mean like the one that Michelle “worked” for before becoming First Hag?

“As I recall, the last time we discussed this a couple of years ago, you weren’t even paying for insurance for yourself, much less for someone else. So there’s really no need for you to play these we-right-wingers-always-have-to-give-money-to-the-lib’ruls games. I have my own health insurance, thank you, and I pay for it through my job.”

That’s right, My Dear Sweet Olivia, I still don’t have insurance. I can’t afford it, with what’s left over from paying for insurance for everyone else.

poppajoe49
Member

WOW!!
Numbers 2 and 3 already!
Kind of early, but I’ll take the hat trick!

Olivia
Member

In other words, My Dear Sweet Olivia, you DO have a right to health care. And I have a right NOT to provide it for you.
************
As I recall, the last time we discussed this a couple of years ago, you weren’t even paying for insurance for yourself, much less for someone else. So there’s really no need for you to play these we-right-wingers-always-have-to-give-money-to-the-lib’ruls games. I have my own health insurance, thank you, and I pay for it through my job.

Olivia
Member

Currently. ED’ s are only required to stabilize a patient in an emergency situation. No ED is required to treat you for non-emergent accidents or illness.
***************
No emergency department is going to take the chance of refusing to treat what looks like a non-emergent condition, Rose, and end up being sued if it turns out that the patient WAS medically unstable after all.

It’s also bad for a hospital’s reputation to be known as a place that rejects patients, for any reason. Extremely bad business practice.

flashingscotsman
Member

In other words, My Dear Sweet Olivia, you DO have a right to health care. And I have a right NOT to provide it for you.

sa_rose
Member

Currently. ED’ s are only required to stabilize a patient in an emergency situation. No ED is required to treat you for non-emergent accidents or illness.

Sidekick
Member

The Constitution does not mention rights because it is the supreme law of the land that enumerates what the federal government can do. The Bill of Rights was set up to codify the natural rights described in the DOI and ensure that the federal government ensures those rights are maintained.

I think RKae succinctly sums up what a right is. In other words a person’s rights stop where they infringe upon the rights of another. Health insurance or health care isn’t a right because it assumes that I have a claim on another’s (a doctor, for example) time, property, and labor. I don’t. In a free market society I must pay for another’s labor that benefits me. In a non-free market society, the state confiscates the wealth of its people and distributes that wealth in the form of health care (or any other commodity) as it sees fit.

Alien
Member

apologies.. that double-posted, then i couldn’t edit the grammarisms

Alien
Member

Rights are tricky to me..

In(un)alienable never appears in Constitution.. DoI refers to them practically in the same breath that it also states that men establish governments to secure them (i.e. Creator-endowed, Government-secured)

Government secured right. Jefferson wrote that

Constitution makes no distinction about that is alienable or not, does it? Does it even legally matter?

Sidekick
Member

I should add the same goes with your misguided notion of what a right is. The Constitution does not give the federal government the enumerated power to bestow health insurance on the citizenry. Again, it isn’t prohibited so it becomes a 10th Amendment issue. Inalienable rights do not come from government, which is why, in part, progressives hate the founding documents. Natural rights.

RKae
Member

God…

Damn…

It.

When are leftist idiots going to understand the definition of what a “right” is? A right is something you’re free to go out and get if you choose to.

It is NOT something that will be provided for free at others’ expense!

Yes, people have the right to health care. That means take care of it YOURSELF!

poppajoe49
Member

Kick, it is amazing how she can’t distinguish between the Bill of Rights, which I specifically referred to, and the amendments to the Constitution.
Makes me wonder how she got her degree, if she ever did.

poppajoe49
Member

AAAHHHH!!!
ANOTHER immensely satisfying turd!
I’m going to lose quite a bit of weight at this rate!

Sidekick
Member

Your lack of knowledge is breathtaking. The Bill of Rights is just that. The Constitution – Articles 1-8 are the supreme laws of the land and the rules for how the federal government is to operate. The federal government has 18 enumerated powers. That’s it. Everything else is subject to the 9th and 10th Amendments. The reason why the 2d Amendment does not specify ownership is because the Constitution does not give the federal government the power to prohibit ownership. Again, go back and read the 9th and 10th Amendments. There was no interpretation your ignorance notwithstanding.

Sidekick
Member

Right, if a state wants to offer some sort of right to “free” health care, the 9th and 10th Amendments make that possible. If a person does not want to live under that system, in theory, he can move to another state. Not possible if that were a federal system.

Olivia
Member

I have no idea what you are talking about. Seriously. No idea.
*************
Then I will explain it again.

1) You stated you don’t believe Americans have a right to health care.

2) You also argued that a tribunal like Canada’s has no right to interfere with a patient’s family’s wishes, even if those wishes fly directly in the face of the doctor’s professional judgment, or aren’t (in his professional opinion) in the patient’s best interest.

(That is what you were arguing, was it not? You certainly were NOT arguing in favor of a committee to hear both sides of the story and make the decision FOR them.)

3) Stating that Americans have no right (“inalienable” or otherwise) to health care means, by extension, that you also believe Americans have no right (“inalienable” or otherwise) to life, since availability of health care can often mean the difference between life and death.

4) If you don’t agree that Americans have this right, why are you defending the perceived right of Americans to demand unlimited heroic measures to keep Grandma alive? Especially when it’s the taxpayers, not the patient OR the family, who has to foot the bill for these measures?

poppajoe49
Member

Yea, she’s also trying to put words I never spoke into my mouth.

Desperation leads to some odd behavior.

Sidekick
Member

I have no idea what you are talking about. Seriously. No idea.

Olivia
Member

Sorry, Kick, but civil rights and civil liberties aren’t subject to a popularity vote among states. Don’t you remember? There was a little skirmish called the American Civil War that settled that point some 150 years ago.

And, incidentally, who said anything about a right to “free” health care? The only ones I’ve ever seen talk about “free” health care are Bush and Rush Limbaugh, who seem to have the impression that going to the ER and then stiffing the hospital for the bill equals “health care at no charge.” And they, of course, are dead wrong about that.

Olivia
Member

No, it’s not. Do you agree with him that health care is a right?

Sidekick
Member

Define right?

It most definately is not an inalienable right.

sa_rose
Member

Except for personal insurance, the insurance company does not determine what is covered under employee plans. The employer does that. And yes,I worked for Aetna health plans and I know what I am talking about.

Olivia
Member

Bullshit.
Before Obamacare, the only time the taxpayers were paying the doctor was if you were on medicare or medicaid.
***************
Elderly patients—the ones who consume most hospital resources—-ARE on Medicare, Poopajoe. If a patient has serious medical issues, it doesn’t take very long to go through every single penny s/he’s paid into Medicare, which means that all other medical expenses are then borne by the taxpayer.

Thanks to health care reform, patients no longer need to worry about insurance companies denying claims for preexisting conditions, or setting lifetime limits on certain types of treatment (e.g., psychiatric).
*****************

>>> Physicians aren’t short order cooks or menial servants. They’re hired for their medical expertise and judgment, not for their ability to take orders from lay people. Especially lay people who aren’t even the patient.
******************
When you’re sitting in an ER treatment room for what seems like hours, watching your loved one bleeding or suffering, maybe you need to grab a doctor by the collar and tell him what the hell to do!
************
Yes, it does seem like an eternity to have to sit and wait when you’re anxious. (One more reason, by the way, you don’t want to see ERs clogged with non-emergencies.) Still, I assure you the doctor knows “what the hell to do.” But emergency departments triage patients, and treat the ones with the highest acuities first.

Believe it or not, bleeding (unless it’s arterial bleeding and/or the patient is in danger of going into shock) is not at the top of the triage scale. Grab a clean towel, apply direct pressure, and wait your turn to be seen. Your loved one is going to be fine, and the staff HASN’T forgotten him or her.

Pain isn’t necessarily at the top of the scale, either. Granted, I hate to see a patient in pain in the waiting room, and will do everything I possibly can to get him back in a room so we can get started treating that pain (we do have some modest standing orders)—-but, again, we sometimes have more pressing issues.

What sort of issues? Heart attacks. Cardiac and respiratory arrest. Strokes. Allergic reactions. Mentally ill patients threatening staff. Ambulances pouring in. Angry family members demanding this, that, or the other thing for their loved one. (Some of their requests are perfectly reasonable; others not so much.) Seizures. Getting patients ready for emergency surgery. Hanging vasopressors, trying to get an IV in a shocky patient with no veins, holding down a screaming toddler while the doctor performs a scary or painful procedure on her. Running to the aid of a patient who’s vomiting profusely. Picking up a patient who’s just fallen in the bathroom. Hastily cleaning rooms in between patients. And, of course, documenting, documenting, documenting.

I promise you, we’re not just sitting at the desk with our feet up, playing Candy Crush Saga. I also promise you that grabbing the doctor and giving him a dressing down isn’t going to get your loved one treated any more quickly. In fact, it will delay things, because it distracts him from the multitasking he’s already doing.

poppajoe49
Member

1) Unless they’re multimillionaires paying cash, they’re NOT paying him—the taxpayers are.

Bullshit.
Before Obamacare, the only time the taxpayers were paying the doctor was if you were on medicare or medicaid.

2) Physicians aren’t short order cooks or menial servants. They’re hired for their medical expertise and judgment, not for their ability to take orders from lay people. Especially lay people who aren’t even the patient.

When you’re sitting in an ER treatment room for what seems like hours, watching your loved one bleeding or suffering, maybe you need to grab a doctor by the collar and tell him what the hell to do!

Olivia
Member

Maybe because if they’re paying him, they get to decide what they’re paying him to do?
**************
1) Unless they’re multimillionaires paying cash, they’re NOT paying him—the taxpayers are.

2) Physicians aren’t short order cooks or menial servants. They’re hired for their medical expertise and judgment, not for their ability to take orders from lay people. Especially lay people who aren’t even the patient.

poppajoe49
Member

Maybe because if they’re paying him, they get to decide what they’re paying him to do?

Olivia
Member

Yet you were just arguing in favor of families who want to “do everything” to keep a moribund Grandma alive for as long as possible, regardless of the cost.

If you don’t think Americans have a right to health care, where are you getting the idea that they have a right to force the doctor to perform any and all aggressive measures on a dying person, whether or not he feels it’s in the patient’s best interests?

You can’t dance back and forth between these two points, Kick. If you don’t believe people have a right to health care, then you also don’t believe they have a right to life—-because lack of health care can, and often does, mean needless death.

Sounds like you need to look a little closer at your values as a citizen. Either that, or maybe admit that you DO think people have a right to health care….but you just don’t want to have to take any social responsibility to help provide it.

poppajoe49
Member

You answered your own question:

Do you agree with him that health care is a right?

No, it’s not.

poppajoe49
Member

Your dementia is getting worse!
I never said any such thing.
Perhaps you can link to where I ever said that?
No, I didn’t think so.

Olivia
Member

Your dementia is showing!
I’m a veteran. Figure it out. I earned my healthcare.
************
Then how come you were recently boasting about not needing insurance, not because you were a veteran, but because (you assume) you’re healthy?

Better try to stick to one story, my boy, because all this flip flopping isn’t enhancing your credibility. (Not that you had much to begin with.)

poppajoe49
Member

Your dementia is showing!
I’m a veteran. Figure it out. I earned my healthcare.

Olivia
Member

Okay, Poopajoe, you believe that health care is NOT a right, and you choose not to Take Personal Responsibility by getting health insurance.

If you get sick in the coming year—not just a cold or a sore throat, but a real, expensive-to-treat illness, like appendicitis or diveriticulitis or (heaven forbid) cancer, you’ll be honest and refuse to seek treatment that somebody else will have to subsidize for you?

It’s shortsighted enough to refuse to buy health insurance. But, when you argue that no one has a right to expect affordable health care, it’s downright stupid. To say nothing of dishonest.

Olivia
Member

And you know for a fact that BC/BS had no intention of raising their rates next year (yeah, right) but that Obama FORCED them to, because…….?

sa_rose
Member

Because of the increased cost of the plan when allthe requirements demanded by Obamacare were factored into the cost of being insured. Insurance companies used to be able to mitigate the cost of covering extrememly ill patients with the premiums of the young and healthy who rarely made a claim. That isn’t the case, and being beholden to shareholders (that’s common folk) they will not swallow that cost and decrease their profit margin.

Olivia
Member

Insurance companies used to be able to mitigate the cost of covering extrememly ill patients with the premiums of the young and healthy who rarely made a claim. That isn’t the case…
************
Why, yes, it is. Don’t you remember when you right wingers assured me that young people don’t buy health insurance—because they’d rather spend the money on big screen TVs and electronic toys and fancy cars?

Now, all of a sudden, you’re changing your tune and claiming that they all had insurance until health care reform came along?

You guys need to pick one story and stick with it. All this flip flopping is making me dizzy.

Olivia
Member

With Obamacare premiums and deductibles, it would, in most cases, be cheaper to pay out of pocket than to be insured.
************
That’s true. Unless, of course, you happen to need medical care.

But, of course, you’re one of those people who think you’re invincible. Either that, or you don’t think at all.

poppajoe49
Member

AHHHH, it’s going to be a good morning, a big turd already!

sa_rose
Member

In some cases that is true as well. My half sister, owned her own business, husband was in school. They could have bought insurance, but instead they used the money to buy land. When she interested hand with a table saw, she ended up paying the bill out of pocket. It would have been cheaper to buy the insurance. People are not always sensible about money.

flashingscotsman
Member

With Obamacare premiums and deductibles, it would, in most cases, be cheaper to pay out of pocket than to be insured.

poppajoe49
Member

Don’t blame Rose for that, you were dizzy long before you came here.

Olivia
Member

Okay, Kick, I’m going to take your last paragraph first. Have you ever, Before Obamacare, experienced the phenomenon of your employer switching insurance companies? I have. Three times in the past six years, in fact. What’s more, the premiums increased every year, much more than my salary did. (Until this year. My rates for 2014 have been frozen at 2013’s rates.) Why on earth would you have assumed that that would never happen again? We are, after all, dealing with a for-profit system here. That’s the way you right wingers wanted it, didn’t you?

Obama said, if you like your plan, you can keep it. He never made any guarantee that the company that provides your plan wouldn’t raise the price, or wouldn’t create limits that made keeping it less convenient or attractive for you. He COULDN’T make such promises, unless he were personally directing every insurance company’s business plans. Why would you have assumed that that’s what he was offering?

Second: the blog (not current events article) you cited is referring to another article (cited within the blog entry), which wasn’t about “losing coverage.” It was about the rate at which people were getting signed up, which (according to the original article, which your blog cited) wasn’t happening fast enough.

That’s a fixable problem. In no way is it a reasonable excuse for scrapping the whole thing. You antireformers are really grasping at straws lately. You’re quick enough to point out (and exult over) every glitch, real and imagined, but you refuse to even consider problem solving techniques to address them.

One can only imagine if Eisenhower had been forced to work in tandem with a general who adamantly opposed the invasion of Normandy, and, every time a glitch in the plans came up, moaned and groaned that it wouldn’t work, that Eisenhower just wanted to kill a lot of Americans for nothing, that he was unfit for his job, that he’d PROMISED it would be done on June 5 and was therefore a liar and incompetent when it ended up being delayed.

In short (yeah, I know, it’s too late now to make this a short post), how about if the right helps come up with ideas that will make this easier and smoother to implement, instead of just making excuses to sabotage it?

Alien
Member

Since i’ve worked at current company (about 11 years now), my insurance has changed twice (spanning 3 insurers in total). By 2009 I’d realized that covering my family had doubled (in about 7 years at that point)

Last year there was no increase, this year there was. The overall trend is about the same for us

Sidekick
Member

We did not have an increase last year any the years previous to that our contributions were basically stable. This year, as I noted, the whole package was changed and we are getting less for more. One of the reasons our old plan was stable is we pioneered the move to kick off spouses who worked and could get insurance through their employer. Not a good morale booster as many families saw their premiums as a household expense in effect double. Delta Airlines made headlines when they announced the same policy. We did it six years ago.

poppajoe49
Member

FTA:

Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.

That must be nearly 1 million new uninsured because of the insurance law that was supposed to get the uninsured, insured.

NICE GOING OBAMA!
What was that about being able to keep your insurance?

C_Strasburger
Member

Received ours from BCBS last week, essentially cancelling a plan that has worked well for us for years. My wife spent a day or two looking at options thru them and it gets even worse. Not only the policy pricing, but the way deductibles are calculated? You won’t ever meet an individual deductible….ours went from $5000 between the two of us, to almost $25K collectively. And that has to be met before you ever get any individual benefits. I won’t even go into the rest of the details today…but after listening to Little Sissy Stompyfoot today, lying his miserable, pathetic liberal ass off, I just laughed….the lies and deceit spewing like an over flowing sewer. He’s good at that. BTW, was that idiot that introduced assclown using his teleprompter?

99.9% of the complete and utter idiots supporting this assclown, and this inane legislation are in for a rude awakening. Doubt any of them have actually taken the time to do their own research. They are nothing more than lemmings, racing to their own deaths over the cliff.

Welcome to the NEW and IMPROVED Amerika! Land of the Stupid and Home of the Rainbow.

Olivia
Member

Don’t be whining and bitching to me, C. Strasburger. As I’ve said many times on this board, it was you righties who wanted and DEMANDED to keep the insurance companies in charge. (In fact, you fought to deregulate them still further, but thank goodness you didn’t get your way.)

So you got your way: the insurance companies are still running the show, and still deciding what to make you pay. Their goal is still, obviously, to maximize their profits rather than to give little people like you a financial break.

That’s why I’ve been saying from Day One that what we really need (and will eventually go to) is universal, single payer insurance. “Obamacare” is, at best, a compromise, because Republicans—-always the party of business—-didn’t want that. So blame them if the option you want costs more than you choose to pay.

poppajoe49
Member

We’ll all be much better off paying the fine and cash for our medical care. It will accomplish 2 things.
1, it will drive prices down.
2, it will bankrupt Obunglescare.
It’s a win-win.

sa_rose
Member

ut the fines increase expoentially each year without insurance. and the whole idea of this bondoggle was to increase the number of insured, not increase it! Fail again.

Olivia
Member

Poopajoe, if you think the average person (including yourself) can afford to pay for emergency surgery or a catastrophic illness out of pocket, then you’re even more clueless than I gave you credit for being. Don’t think it can happen to you? Think again. Sooner or later it happens to EVERYONE—-and never when they’re expecting it or financially prepared for it.

Go ahead—-pay the fine, and boycott “Obamacare.” You’re not hurting anyone but yourself and your family.

sa_rose
Member

But Obamacare wasn’t supposed to be catastrophic insurance. It was supposed to provide insurance for ongoing well care to prevent the advancement of disease and disorders to the point they became catastrophic. Some will gain insurance, but many who already have it will lose it as companies alter the plans and increase the cost. Truthfully I have several serious chronic conditions, and I would not pay for a policy that had a $25,000 deductible. Why pay premiums? My cost of care is less that the deductible and I would be wasting the premium cost. Anyone who understands insurance could see this coming. Just noone wanted to accept the truth.

Olivia
Member

Not true, Rose. Other countries have managed to provide affordable health care to ALL, for a fraction of the cost of our own seriously inadequate and inequitable system. Yet there’s NO country on earth that has used a for-profit system like ours (pre-reform) successfully and affordably for ALL.

Consider the fact that there are many Americans WITH serious chronic conditions, who have had no insurance up to this time. I’m sorry, but that’s unacceptable; yet Republicans showed absolutely no interest in changing it. Nor would the right even consider the idea of universal health care. So this was the only option available. It’s not good enough, but it’s a step in the right direction.

But I must say, you and Poopajoe are making a great case for socialized medicine. Keep it up!

sa_rose
Member

Yes, small European countries hve passed socialized medicine laws. And now England and France are drwoning, Ireland is drowning, Greece is already bankrupt, and other countries are frantically trying to figure out how to PAY for their socilaized medicine. And anyone who is able comes to America for treatment. So how’s that working for them again?

Olivia
Member

Actually, Rose, most of what you said above is a lie, and a rather ridiculous one. The vast majority of Europeans receive health care in their own countries. Those who come to the U.S. (or go to other countries—contrary to popular right wing assumption, not everyone who goes abroad for medical procedures flocks to the United States) COME HERE BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO.

Get it now? They can afford to come here, because they’re not being bankrupted by medical expenses back home, as so many Americans are. They have CHOICES. As compared to tens of millions of Americans, who have previously had no health care options at all, let alone the choice to go to another country for treatment.

It’s also a myth that those nations are all “drowning.” Sure, they have their financial problems—-but so does the U.S. Every nation has its priorities. In France, for example, some of those priorities are affordable higher education for anyone who’s smart enough to qualify; affordable health care, and maintaining infrastructure. Here in the U.S., we can’t be bothered with those things, because we’re too busy bloating our military and giving tax cuts to billionaires so they can buy elections. :>P

sa_rose
Member

According to the patients, they come here becasue they cannot get electivesurgeries in a reasonable time frame, and the delay even in testing throws them weeks or even months delay getting some kind of treatment. Your right, the ones that come here are thse that can afford to when I said anyone who is ble is comeing here for care. The rest are left to rot at home.

Olivia
Member

According to the patients, they come here becasue they cannot get electivesurgeries in a reasonable time frame, and the delay even in testing throws them weeks or even months delay getting some kind of treatment. Your right, the ones that come here are thse that can afford to when I said anyone who is ble is comeing here for care. The rest are left to rot at home.
***************
And your statistics reflecting poorer patient outcomes in those countries, due to patients “rot(ting) at home” instead of receiving timely treatment, are……..?

poppajoe49
Member

TURDS!! 😀

Olivia
Member

I didn’t make it up, and I am not going to spend time searching for statistics that you will not believe,. and will argue about for another week.
**************
I see. So you’re trying to tell me that other countries have poor patient outcomes; you’re claiming that those poor patient outcomes are directly related to the fact that they have universal, single payer health care; but you can’t be bothered to back up these claims with any statistics whatsoever.

Want to remind me again why I should take you seriously on this issue?

sa_rose
Member

I didn’t make it up, and I am not going to spend time searching for statistics that you will not believe,. and will argue about for another week.

Olivia
Member

The statistic are irrelevant because you wouldn’t believe them if they were engraved in gold.
***
Try me. Show me your patient outcome statistics, from a neutral source, reflecting significantly higher death rates directly attributable to delays in elective surgery in those countries. Then we’ll talk about it.

Or you could just come clean and admit that you made it all up……

sa_rose
Member

The statistic are irrelevant because you wouldn’t believe them if they were engraved in gold. You stated your incorrect theory on why people came here for treatment, and I corrected you with what the actual patients say. I don’t expect you to believe me. I could descend from on high on clouds of gold and silver with GOD himself at my side, and you wouldn’t believe it.

poppajoe49
Member

Not to mention that we are exponentially larger than any of the Eurosocialist countries, and they are having trouble paying for their healthcare. How are we supposed to do it on a much larger scale?

Olivia
Member

Well, duh, Poopajoe, we also have more taxpayers and more resources BECAUSE we’re larger.

Just as WalMart can afford to offer a lower price on shampoo than Mom and Pop’s Acme Dry Goods can.

sa_rose
Member

But its not cheaper! You keep dragging that out in one form or another, but the bottom line is ITS NOT CHEAPER!

poppajoe49
Member

So, instead, the goobermint decides to make a law that penalizes those without serious health issues, and causes them to be dropped by their insurer!
Why? Ostensibly because their insurance doesn’t meet the Obamacare mandated coverage requirements. What would those be? Not having coverage for minor children, maternity coverage, and prenatal coverage for men, and for women over 60 years of age! Can you tell me why they need to carry that coverage?

sa_rose
Member

Its a lot of the well care demands that the insurance companies are claiming they can’t provide at the same cost as before. Most employer insurance carried maternity care, children to age 23 (if part of the policy and the family chose a plan that included children) And the pre existing clause was generally a delay in payment for a specific condition that had been treated within the last 6 months. Most of the time after a waiting period, preexisting was covered as well

Olivia
Member

Rose, that’s why many of us hard core liberals (as opposed to centrist Obama) believe that it’s not a good idea to leave health care in the hands of for-profit corporations.

You right wingers clamored for the government to surrender total control of American health care to these very same corporations—-so why are you now blaming Obama for corporate decisions designed to maximize their own profits?

sa_rose
Member

So what you wanta government plan like Medicare? You REALLY are crazy! Medcare does cover senior’s care, but t only covers hospitalizations. IF you pay for part B, it covers doctors, DME, outpt therapies, etc. And IF you pay anther premium, you get a prescription plan that helps cpver medications. Mind you, they aren’t free, but discounted. This last onth, I paid more on one of my prescriptions than the insurance did. Medicare is dying under money lost to fraud and unnecesary care, and many things the elderly really NEED, like eyeglasses and hearing aids aren’t covered at all. And since Medicare doesn’t cover them, no Medicare supplemental insurance will cover them either! Some of the Medicare advantage programs address that, but they are for profit organizations looking to make money on your mdicare premiums by offering “more efficient” healthcare. That frequently translate to limiting or not approving needed care.

Olivia
Member

So what you wanta government plan like Medicare? You REALLY are crazy! Medcare does cover senior’s care, but t only covers hospitalizations. IF you pay for part B, it covers doctors, DME, outpt therapies, etc. And IF you pay anther premium, you get a prescription plan that helps cpver medications. Mind you, they aren’t free, but discounted. This last onth, I paid more on one of my prescriptions than the insurance did.
**************
And how much do people have to pay who don’t have health insurance at all, Rose?

Olivia
Member

Because it’s cheaper to provide one-size-fits-all insurance for everyone, than it is to custom tailor insurance policies for each individual, Poopajoe—-just as it’s cheaper for cable companies to offer you 300 channels, instead of giving you a package of the 10 channels you want, without all the other junk. Just as it’s cheaper for appliance companies to offer you one big, thick repair manual in 12 different languages, than it is to manufacture 12 separate repair manuals, and have to make sure that the right ones go to the right customers.

And the reason that “those without serious health issues” need insurance is that (1) sooner or later, everyone ends up with a serious medical problem that they can’t afford to pay for out of pocket, and (1) anyone who thinks he can predict when or what that will be is a misguided fool.

Sorry, but it’s irresponsible and short sighted of you to expect everyone else to foot the bill for YOUR medical costs, should you suddenly end up with a bowel obstruction, a serious injury, a stroke, cholecystitis, cancer, or a mental health crisis. Presumably, you don’t object to having insurance on your car, or changing the oil when appropriate—-so why are you whining and crying about taking responsibility for your own health? If YOU don’t care about keeping yourself healthy and productive, why on earth would you expect anyone else to do it for you?

sa_rose
Member

Instead of picking on Poppa, who has always paid for his medical care above and beyond what the VA provides, and has paid for all his wife’s care with or without insurance, I am having difficulty understanding why you continue to say he (and all of us for that matter) are irresponsible. It is irresponsible to have a baby out of wedlock. It is irresponsible to use rent and utility money for drugs and alcohol. Why do I never hear you talk about THAT irresponsibility, instead of hassling someone who has worked and paid taxes his entire life? Ad he is employed full time. Are you irresponsible because you only work part time? You have no children (at leat I hope not) so there is no reason not to work fulltime and pay more taxes to cover the programs you support.

KimmyQueen
Member

Rose remember that producers are not allowed to spend the money they work for on themselves and their families… you see the RESPONSIBLE thing according to idiots socialists is for producers to spend their money on government programs allowing for the non producing socialists to feel good about themselves for forcing producers to comply to the things that socialists want, but won’t pay for themselves.

Olivia
Member

Instead of picking on Poppa, who has always paid for his medical care above and beyond what the VA provides, and has paid for all his wife’s care with or without insurance, I am having difficulty understanding why you continue to say he (and all of us for that matter) are irresponsible. It is irresponsible to have a baby out of wedlock. It is irresponsible to use rent and utility money for drugs and alcohol. Why do I never hear you talk about THAT irresponsibility….
***************
Probably because you don’t read my posts before jumping in to argue with them. First, you’re repeating worn-out stereotypes, which serves no purpose here except to show that you’re more interested in justifying your own prejudices than getting at the truth.

Second, people who use up their money on “drugs and alcohol” (actually, as you know, alcohol IS a drug) have dependency issues, which means irresponsibility, period. You’re not going to fix that irresponsibility just by bitching about them, or yanking away their family’s meager support system.

In fact, I wouldn’t be saying anything at all about Poopajoe’s situation, were it not for the fact that he’s always so quick to believe the worst about poor people with brown skin who live in the inner city. Right now he’s boasting about boycotting “Obamacare.” That in itself is pretty irresponsible, since if (heaven forbid) his wife should develop a serious, expensive-to-treat illness, it would be the rest of us who’d have to subsidize her care, since there’s no way the average Joe can shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Not so silent
Member

TD MO nothing to see here but a libtard regurgitating talking points…

poppajoe49
Member

Because it’s cheaper to provide one-size-fits-all insurance for everyone, than it is to custom tailor insurance policies for each individual, Poopajoe

Then how do you explain the huge increases in policy premiums for EVERYONE?

Sidekick
Member

This is a redistribution scheme. The government is following the Social Security model by forcing the young to pay for the old. To a central planner it makes perfect sense. To the rest of us, we know the system eventually collapses.

Central planning versus nihilism, the favorite false choice of the left.

poppajoe49
Member

In this case though, it seems the older are paying for the young and irresponsible.
Women that are postmenopausal are paying for prenatal and neonatal care for those who can’t afford kids.
It’s an expansion of welfare.
That said, as I mentioned earlier, NOBODY is paying less, EVERYONE is paying more!
So much for the “affordable” part of the cACA.

Olivia
Member

This is a redistribution scheme. The government is following the Social Security model by forcing the young to pay for the old. To a central planner it makes perfect sense. To the rest of us, we know the system eventually collapses.
***********
So what’s your solution? You’ve already defended the right of family members to insist that Grandma be kept alive “ad absurdum” (as Alien put it).

Who pays for all those resources and personnel to keep Grandma alive, Kick? Who pays for the resources used when Grandma’s 27 year old uninsured great grandson gets into a bad car accident, and (because he’s a libertarian and didn’t believe in being forced to wear a seat belt) ends up with multiple fractures and TBI?

You say you don’t want doctors being able to overrule families, when they want the hospital to go to ridiculous extremes to keep Grandma alive. You say you don’t want young people to be ‘forced” to carry health insurance. From what I’ve seen, you don’t want health care reform at all, except perhaps giving insurance companies more leverage against unprofitable patients. So who pays????

sa_rose
Member

You are mixing apples and oranges. Grandma being “kept alive is in a completely different category than a 27 yeear old on an MVA. I don’t support keeping elderly people alive long after whoever they were has left the building. I thik man families have guilt issues and want to prolong her life, but to me, that is no life, and m children have been made SERIOUSLY aware of that. On the other hand, no one seems concerned about keepin a 24 week preemie alive by any means possible, even ifit means a liftime of serious medical care, and an inability to ever become a functioning, productive citizen. Are YOU gonn tell his Mom you are pulling the plug because he just had his 3rd brain bleed? its all about point of view.

Olivia
Member

On the other hand, no one seems concerned about keepin a 24 week preemie alive by any means possible, even ifit means a liftime of serious medical care, and an inability to ever become a functioning, productive citizen. Are YOU gonn tell his Mom you are pulling the plug because he just had his 3rd brain bleed? its all about point of view.
*********************
I’m not “gonna’ tell his mother anything, Rose, because I’m not the one who’s balking at shelling out money for taxes and health insurance.

The question isn’t whether we all think this sweet little baby should have a chance at life. The question is whether we’re willing to accept higher insurance premiums and higher health care costs, to subsidize the baby’s $1,000,000+ medical interventions. Because someone’s got to pay the bill, and obviously most new parents don’t have that kind of money.

C_Strasburger
Member

Olivia, were you born stupid? I’d say yes. We could have accomplished that at a far lesser cost to the taxpayer (clearly something you don’t do), and adding 12, 30, 48 (whatever the number of uninsured is today – it changes with the wind) million without insurance, without destroying the finest insurance and healthcare system in the world.

Is “healthcare” one of your specific key words, troll?

Armed and Awesome
Member

Actually, I don’t think she was born stupid. She clearly takes lessons, AKA public education.

Olivia
Member

It’s between 47 and 50 million, Strasburger. Not including those who are UNDERinsured.

What you’re describing sounds an awful lot like socialized medicine. Hey, if that’s what you’re rooting for, you’ll get no argument from me, but do you really want to express such a sentiment among all these angry “I’ve got mine, screw you” reactionaries?

Just to clarify: I’m no troll. I didn’t particularly intend to participate on all these health care threads…..but, when I see so much blatant misinformation and lies being tossed around, I can’t resist stepping in to provide a reality check. No wonder you guys always end up on the wrong side of history!

Red Robster
Member

you’re a legend in your own mind.

Also, you’re at least a troll, at best, an orcess.

Also, also, your mama dresses you funny.

Also, also, also, you’re delusional.

Also, also, also, also your yore comments prove these salient points.

sa_rose
Member

The level of ignorance and incompetence you have shown in your posts pretty much argues against your ability to givbe a reality check. You wouldn’t know reality of it bit you in the ass. You aren’t even competent in your own field! The situations described here ae pulled form other news reports, analyses, etc. We aren’t pulling themout of our asses with no credible citations. You, on the other hand. . . .

Olivia
Member

The level of ignorance and incompetence you have shown in your posts pretty much argues against your ability to givbe a reality check. You wouldn’t know reality of it bit you in the ass. You aren’t even competent in your own field!
*************
……..says the self-described health care professional who didn’t realize that longterm hormone therapy can pose an increased risk for breast cancer……and who claimed that female trangenders don’t have breasts (other than artificial ones), and therefore can’t get cancer……
*************
The situations described here ae pulled form other news reports, analyses, etc. We aren’t pulling themout of our asses with no credible citations.
****************
Correction: some are pulled from blogs and other opinion pieces. Which automatically affects their credibility, especially if they misquote their sources, or don’t provide documentation to back up their claims.

You do realize, don’t you, that quite a few posters here don’t seem to understand the difference between a well researched news source, and somebody’s opinion disguised as a news source?

sa_rose
Member

Do NOT misquote me. I stated that I had not seen any studies that pointed to an increase risk for breast cancer in Transgendered men, but conceded that long term hormone therapy could increase risk. And I stated that there was breast tissue under their implants, which placed them at the same risk factor as other men, and I even noted the risk of the Braca gene as increased risk for any man. Get your shit straight.

poppajoe49
Member

Too much trouble for her to get things right, and they will not support her point if she did.

C_Strasburger
Member

Really, now? Well then, you must hold a compete disdain for onumbnutz, liberals in general, and this notreallyhealthcare travesty due to all the lies, deception, and misinformation propagated by this administration? right?

Read, and then reread my post about BCBS above, troll. Those are facts. I don’t really care whether you like them or not…you can believe whatever you want…the facts are the facts….

BTW, you are obviously a troll… And, your comprehension of history truly is astounding… I’m sure your mommy is very proud.

Olivia
Member

Really, now? Well then, you must hold a compete disdain for onumbnutz, liberals in general, and this notreallyhealthcare travesty due to all the lies, deception, and misinformation propagated by this administration? right?
***************
Actually, what you righties are branding “lies, deception and misinformation” isn’t that at all. It’s the normal process of getting a huge program up and working. And, of course, it’s the result of right wing propaganda feeding you all sorts of misinformation (which you very naively swallowed unquestioningly).

15 years ago, I would never have believed it if someone had told me you righties would be swallowing and regurgitating some of the whoppers I see here. But, then again, 15 years ago FAUX News hadn’t yet become the gullible right winger’s bible.

sa_rose
Member

And those of us who can’t even GET Fox news? THe ony newon TV to which I am exposed is the Big 3 major broadcasting outlets. So where am I getting the lies Fox is supposedly producing. I have seen far more examples of lying from the Big Three. They have even acknowleged some of them on air. There HAVE been lies. Obama promised people could keep their current plans. Wrong. He promised the raes woul dbe lower. Wrong. He intimated that employers would save so much they could giv everyone a raise. REALLY wrong. So how do you figure we are dealing in misconceptins about Obamacare? Looks like the misconceptions are on the President’s part, not ours.

poppajoe49
Member

“lies, deception and misinformation” isn’t that at all.

Then what would you call
“If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”
“If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance”
“You will save $2500 per person a year on health insurance”

HMMMM, sounds like lies, deception, and misinformation to me.

Olivia
Member

That’s because you’re uninsured, and (now that you claim to be a veteran who has no use for regular health insurance) obviously have minimal experience shopping for or paying for health care.

Not one person on here has claimed s/he can’t keep his/her doctor, although several have admitted that they get a better deal by using an option that requires them to switch doctors. Obama didn’t say you could keep your doctor at absolutely no cost or obligation to yourself. Obviously, the government has no control over whether an insurance company decides to list a particular doctor as “in network.”

As for the claim “you will save $2500 per person a year on health insurance”: I can’t seem to find that quote anywhere. I’m also pretty sure Obama wouldn’t make such a grammatical lapse as “per person a year.” But I KNOW it must be a direct quote, or you wouldn’t have put it in quotation marks, right?

So, if you can provide a link to it, IN CONTEXT, I’ll have a look. Fair enough?

poppajoe49
Member

Thanks Rose, I made one tiny error, it was $2500 per family.
Yet, I can’t find one family or person who is paying less, can you?

sa_rose
Member
poppajoe49
Member

I’m no troll

Can’t prove that by what you post here.

flashingscotsman
Member

My Dear Sweet Olivia. You are a troll.

There, I said it, that makes it a fact. Hey, works for Obama.

poppajoe49
Member

So, Obama’s a troll?

sa_rose
Member

Hahaha! He has the ears! Sorry. I couldn,’t resist.

sa_rose
Member

True. I saw it in the internet! and everything on the internet is true! (right?)

flashingscotsman
Member

There’s a truth meter at each and every server. If it’s not one hundred percent true, it doesn’t get posted. Al Gore put on there from the first day.

poppajoe49
Member

TURDS!

Navyvet2
Guest

People keep getting it up the a$$ from this regime and they sniff and mewl and play the “poor me” card. Fuck em. If they were smart enough to figure out they were obviously lied to yet AGAIN, they should vent their wrath on the media who fed them the bullshit. But, I’m sure they sit there gawking at the alphabet media or their local asswipe er paper, and are told it is all someone else’s fault and they suck it up like the gullible lemmings they are.

Progressive Hemrrhoid
Member
Progressive Hemrrhoid

We’ve been telling these useless idiots this was going to happen, no matter what candy coated bullshit oozed from Quagmire’s lips. They refused to listen, too caught up in the fawning bootlickers in the media’s attacks on the truth.
A lot of people are going to suffer because of this, but I hope these liberal shit stains suffer the most.

danybhoy
Member

They will, they just don’t know it yet.

deepthinker
Member

Wow there goes that promise of keeping your insurance and keeping your doctors. Guess that free is not so free and the statements are turning out to be lies. Useful TOOLS and FOOLS. Bought that hope and change and now you have lies and despair. Way to go. When you feel the need to whine and or bitch, try whining and or bitching to your beloved quagmire.

Olivia
Member

Not-so-deep-thinker, you’re parroting a hoary old misconception that’s been plastered throughout the right wing media.

You see, Obama never “promised” that you could keep your insurance and your doctors at absolutely no cost, obligation or inconvenience to yourself, nor did he “promise” to force insurance companies to allow this. His point was that “Obamacare” wasn’t about forcing you into a plan which would dictate which doctor(s) you could see, or which hospital(s) you were required to use. Obviously, you CAN keep your doctor and health care plan if you want—–but doing so won’t NECESSARILY be the easiest and cheapest way to go.

It says a great deal about your own sense of responsibility, that you’d be sitting idly on your butt whining at Obama for not arranging everything just the way you want it, for nothing. What do you think he is—–an insurance company CEO??

By the way, if you don’t like the way insurance companies are setting up these options (my guess is that you haven’t even checked them out), just remember: it was you righties who wanted to keep Big Business in charge of health care. So don’t be bitching about it if they don’t offer you just what you want at the price you want to pay.

sa_rose
Member

No, HE is the one setting them up. And people WERE told that if they liked their insurance as it was it would not change. That sounds like no huge change in policy premiums. We are not talking a rise due to Lrge payouts, or loss of income from the insurance companies, as frequently occurs, but the entore policy being eliminated, rewritten and repriced. At a SIGNIFICANTLY higher premium rate. I’m still trying to figure out how a tax credit is going to assist people who don’t pay taxes to pay for their insurance.

Olivia
Member

No, HE is the one setting them up. And people WERE told that if they liked their insurance as it was it would not change.
**************
Wrong. At no time did he promise that anyone’s particular insurance plan wouldn’t change. If he had made such a statement, only a fool would have believed it, because obviously Obama has no control over changes that businesses CHOOSE to make to the products or services that they sell.

The problem is that the right wing media, which has made it its top priority to discredit Obama by fair means or foul, keeps paraphrasing his remarks to you. And, instead of immediately questioning WHY they resort to paraphrasing instead of directly quoting him in context, you just accepted their tweaked version of his remarks.

Poopajoe’s link makes it clear that he did NOT promise that insurance policies wouldn’t change. What’s more, I’ll bet you can’t come up with a direct quote from Obama making that statement….because such a statement doesn’t exist.

sa_rose
Member

You truly are delusional. We gave you a link to a speech where he said the plans would not change. No matter how much you try and twist the facts he said it. And that is only one example. He said it over and over, and no, I am not going to dig up another video, since that would clearly be a waste of time. You don’t believe even what you see and hear, so you”re pretty much hopeless.

Olivia
Member

You truly are delusional. We gave you a link to a speech where he said the plans would not change.
*************
I’m sorry, Rose, but that was NOT what he said in the video. Please don’t sit there and lie to me about the words he used, simply because you’re anxious to believe that he was promising something that he has no control over.

Not so silent
Member

Nothing said here makes any kind of a dent in the forehead of Livie the Libtard…No matter what someone says she will say the opposite or turn your words and in effect play liberal with them…Look at the Gooseneck/jackboots in D.C. who do this all the time, libtards by the dozens lie every day, and no body calls them on it, so Livie with no apparent thought of her own, does the same thing…She is just a shill shrieking libtard who feels that she must prove herself superior to any conservative and point out the error of your ways…A legend in her own mind…that’s the problem with libtards these days, they all think they are smarter than everyone else, laws don’t apply and only their words have meanings. plus they feel they have the only true path to enlightenment like some kind of tin god…The founding fathers should be spinning in their graves looking down upon people like our mentally unstable and serious challenged libtard leaders and their “friends” who like the people in Germany so many years ago said Hitler was doing a good job…then after the shit hit the fan goes..Oh we did not know….bullshit, libtards know what they are doing, devious, lying, spying, pieces of shit on a power trip,m and this twit is their foot soldier hoping for a reward from der leader when she gets noticed for your efforts to promote the democrat nazi way…Sorry but she fools no here, yet vainly tries day after day, dragging out threads way beyond the point of any usefulness..posting at odd hours hoping her post will remain for a while before getting thumbed down like always. All the while living on life built on a crap foundation and having to justify it daily by pointing out all the errors those of us not in lockstep with der leader…Nothing more than a troll with no thoughts of her own, mentally ill, and living a life as directed by politicians, reminds me of animal house in the riot scene where the guy gets run over and smashed into the sidewalk while yelling all is well…Just like Germany, so many fools, fooled by so many corrupt and power mad politicians who don’t even give a shit about her, yet she believes she must get the rest of us to see the light and follow these pieces of shit in D.C. right off the cliff…Well dear they give out nobels like they use to give out prizes in a cereal boxes….I would value a piece of junk from a box of Captain Crunch more than anything the nobel people give out..and by the way the nobel is just a libtard way of saying sorry I invented dynamite..so heres a piece prize instead..all the while the peace prize is funded by dynamite sales….typical libtard double speak hypocritical bullshit…so Livie the libtard, I say Fuck you and the horse you rode in on….not even back two weeeks and you proving that your nothing more than a liberal piece of shit..your not smart, your not honest, and your never going to post anything here to change anyone’s mind..

Red Robster
Member

‘… like some kind of tin god.”

that and dented forehead. 😀 Buddy you really know how to write a picture!

poppajoe49
Member

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E

Go to :45 in this video. President I Didn’t Knowbama says clearly that if you have insurance through your employer, medicare, medicaid, or the VA, “NOTHING IN THIS PLAN WILL REQUIRE YOU OR YOUR EMPLOYER TO CHANGE THE PLAN OR DOCTOR YOU HAVE”.

Now, tell us how he kept this promise.
He’s as big a fucking liar as you are!

Olivia
Member

Nothing will REQUIRE you or your employer to change the plan or doctor you have, Poopajoe.

Nowhere does he “promise” that you can have the plan you like the best for a bargain price.

Gosh, there sure is a “gimme” mentality on this board! “Wahh! I chose which plan I want, and Obama won’t make the insurance company give it to me for half price! He’s a bad man!!!!!”

sa_rose
Member

Oh, come on, that is such a lie! People on this board all pay for insurance or cash on the barrel head for medical care. Of ALL people, no one here is expecting the government to craft an insurance plan for tem. That’s the whole point! How can you be so oblivious?

Olivia
Member

Oh, come on, that is such a lie! People on this board all pay for insurance or cash on the barrel head for medical care. Of ALL people, no one here is expecting the government to craft an insurance plan for tem.
**************
Poopajoe is. He’s blaming Obama for the fact that the BC/BS plan his wife wants costs too much, and also for the fact that it provides maternity benefits that she isn’t likely to use.

I don’t know how you can interpret that in any way other than he’s holding the president accountable for the business decisions that BC/BS makes.

sa_rose
Member

BC/BS did not make the decisions to include maternity care in every plan, or coverage for minor childrenin every plan, or anything else in every plan. They had certain services and types of care foisted upon them by the government. I heard n the news last night that Aetna, Cigna and Unitedhealthcare are refusing to take part in the exchanges at all, because they don’t know how many additional people they would have to cover, they consder the risk too great.

poppajoe49
Member

DUMBSHIT!
He said that norhing will require you to change the plan you have!
Most people are losing their plans because the law is requiring them to have coverage they don’t currently have!
You lose, PERIOD!
He lied, and you are so fucking gullible that you can’t see the truth for what it is.

sa_rose
Member

And he clearly said you wouldn’t have to change doctors. But between companies removing doctors from their networks and other doctors retiring or chaning careers, many WIL in fact have to cange their doctors. And there is no way you can spin that.

Olivia
Member

And he clearly said you wouldn’t have to change doctors. But between companies removing doctors from their networks and other doctors retiring or chaning careers, many WIL in fact have to cange their doctors. And there is no way you can spin that.
***********
No need to spin it, just to remind you of the context of the remark, which has been repeatedly ignored by the right wing media. His point wasn’t that this was going to be some kind of strict government-issued policy, where you had to quit your old policy and accept whichever doctor and plan you were assigned.

It should have been obvious to anyone with a working brain that he’wasn’t guaranteeing that insurance companies wouldn’t make changes in their policies, or that some doctors wouldn’t retire or relocate to other areas of the country. But, as usual, the right wing media went on a hunt for something to bitch about, and, when they found it, they used it to death on their gullible followers.

sa_rose
Member

I harrdly think ABC, NBC, and CBS are right leaning news outlets. And this is not a conservative delusion. THere are a lot of people out there who realize they are getting screwed. And its not the rich. They will always have plenty for whatever tthey desire. I call your attention to a thread you have apparently chosen to ignore where someone who fought to get Obanacare passed, is now getting screwed by the same thing, Je lied. They ALL lied. The closest to the truth we got was Pelosi “we have t pass it to see whats in it.”

poppajoe49
Member

AHHHH, I’ve been waiting all day for one good turd!

sa_rose
Member

She ses it. She is just arguing because she thinks it makes her look smart.

Olivia
Member

DUMBSHIT!
He said that norhing will require you to change the plan you have!
******************
Got a link to that exact quote, in those exact words?

Didn’t think so. That’s the problem with your right wing propagandists, Poopajoe: they have a habit of paraphrasing, rather than providing direct quotes, in order to spin what was actually said. They also like to quote out of context, to confuse and mislead the viewer (or listener) still more.

And you bought right into it.

poppajoe49
Member

YES YOU DUMB SCRUNT! IT’S AT :45 IN THE VIDEO LINK I POSTED 4 POSTS ABOVE HERE!
FOR THE MENTALLY DEFICIENT, HERE IT IS AGAIN!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E
GO TO :45 IN THE VIDEO AND LISTEN TO HIM IN HIS OWN WORDS WITH THE FAWNING JOE BIDEN AND NANCY PELOSI SITTING BEHIND HIM WHILE HE SAYS THAT TO CONGRESS!!! THOSE EXACT WORDS!!!

NOW, BE GONE BITCH!!!

Olivia
Member

Poopajoe, here were his exact words, starting at 00:45:

“If you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.”

Note that it doesn’t GUARANTEE you that you’ll get the plan you want without any effort or inconvenience on your part. It only promises you that the government itself won’t abolish your existing plan, or the opportunity of the employer to continue offering that existing plan. Obviously, since insurance companies are still in charge, they’re still capable of setting the prices that they feel will maximize profits for themselves and their shareholders. You’re a fool if you thought otherwise.

You say your wife hasn’t carried ANY insurance for a while. Well, then, his message has nothing to do with her, because it refers only to insurance the person already has.

I’ll remind you, too, that the government planned for the expansion of Medicaid for those who can’t afford private health insurance. If you’re truly that financially strapped, maybe that’s what you ought to consider—provided you don’t live in one of those states where bullheaded governors refused to expand Medicaid, in an effort to insult the president (and, incidentally, to send a message to their wealthy financial backers).

It’s what you righties always say to the poor: if what you’re doing isn’t working, then maybe you need to work harder and EARN the money to get what you want, rather than waiting for “Uncle Sugar” to give it to you.

How come you never seem to take your own advice?

Olivia
Member

You’re fucking delusional!
I’m done with you. You refuse to even see his words for what they were! Jay Carney has nothing on you!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Translation: “No fair! If you’re gonna drag direct quotes, context and logic into this, I’m takin’ my ball and goin’ home!”

Interesting how sulky and whiny right wingers get, when they’re urged to take some responsibility for their own financial problems, rather than demanding that Obama do it for them.

Olivia
Member

Popp provide not only a direct quote, but a video of saidquote, which you then STILL declined to acceot and tried to analyze Obama’s statements into something completely different that what he said.
****************
Not true. I took his remarks exactly as they were phrased: if you like your current health care plan, you can keep it. Not “if you don’t have insurance, you can buy any plan you want and the company has to give it to you for the price you want to pay.”

I like my current plan, Rose, and I’m going to keep it. Obama didn’t promise me that I wouldn’t have to pay more to keep it, and I never expected him to make such a promise. Nor did he promise me that the company would custom tailor a plan for me that includes only coverage for the conditions I want covered, without any extra cost or inconvenience on my part.

I’m amused (but not very surprised) the way right wingers like Poopajoe will make every excuse in the book to avoid taking responsibility for their own health care, even as they condemn imaginary inner city poor people “refusing” to take responsibility themselves.

sa_rose
Member

Where did Poppa ever say is wife was looking or free stuff? She has no insurance, she is getting to an age that he may require a higher level of medical care, and this insurane was meant for eople just like her. Who don’t have insurance, but would like to get it at a reqasonable cost. Except it WASN”T a reasonable cost, so the both of them are a tad upset. You’re an idiot. I mean really, has anyone tested your IQ lately?

sa_rose
Member

Popp provide not only a direct quote, but a video of saidquote, which you then STILL declined to acceot and tried to analyze Obama’s statements into something completely different that what he said. It shouldn’t be that hard. He should say what he eans and mena what he says. So seems to me yo would be the illogical one in all this!

Olivia
Member

We have a nice pool because we bought the house with the pool before my wife lost her good paying job that had insurance.
*************
And many people who depend on social programs bought their cell phones and tattoos when they were in better financial circumstances.

Funny that you won’t consider that possibility when you’re slamming poor people who receive government assistance, but you think it’s a valid excuse when you’re talking about yourself.

“Judge not lest you be judged….and by the same standard which you yourself have applied.”

poppajoe49
Member

We have a nice pool because we bought the house with the pool before my wife lost her good paying job that had insurance.

Olivia
Member

You COUNT the minutes between your post and my response
It’s called reading the time stamps, a trick you have yet to master.

writing down the actual words, to show you that your paraphrasing was inaccurate and misleading.
Yet, I didn’t paraphrase, I quoted, therefore not being innacurate or misleading. It just doesn’t fit your beliefs and therefore must be a lie in your narrow little, demented mind.

your wife, who has been uninsured for some time, now wants to get insurance so she can get “free stuff” (i.e., be subsidized for some procedures she feels she needs).
****************
Wrong again, she merely wanted to follow some misguided belief that if she didn’t get insurance, she would be breaking a law. She didn’t want the insurance, she thought she had to have it, and when I told her that she didn’t have to get it, just pay a small fine, she decided to pay the fine. She doesn’t need any medical procedures, but don’t let that get in the way of your demented little narrative.
****************
Well, shoot. I could have sworn that it was you who said, “Stupid scrunt, my wife wanted to find out how much insurance was because she’s pushing 60 and is concerned she may need some procedures at some point in the near future” in a previous post. There must be two posters here with identical screen names, huh?

But, since you INSIST that you never made any such remark on this board, I’ll (wink, wink) take you at your word. So what you’re now saying is that your wife decided that it’s cheaper to pay the fine and continue to play Russian roulette with her health. Which means that, if she loses the game and ends up with a serious illness or injury, she’ll be going without treatment, or (more likely) the rest of us will be footing the bill for her care.

Bottom line is still the same: you and she are refusing to take Personal Responsibility unless Obama personally delivers the policy she wants, at the price she wants, on a silver platter.
*****************

you and your wife don’t want to pay for a private BC/BS policy
It’s not private if the government required you to have certain coverage.
****************
You’re trying to split hairs, my boy. If the policy comes from, say, BC/BS rather than Medicaid or Medicare, it is indeed a private policy. The government also requires homeowners to carry homeowner’s insurance, but that doesn’t mean the insurance offered is public or state sponsored.
*****************
I don’t need a pool, I have a nice one already.
******************
I see. You have a “nice pool,” but you claim that you and your wife can’t afford to take responsibility for her health care needs.

Sounds like screwed up priorities, Poopajoe. It also sounds suspiciously like your rants about “those people” who have cell phones and tattoos, but claim they can’t afford to buy food for their families.

poppajoe49
Member

Yes Kick, it is becoming obvious that is what she is doing.
I can’t take the lies, bullshit, and “mind reading” any more. If she had a valid point, and didn’t twist everything around, I might keep engaging her, but it’s a futile effort when she can’t even watch the man talk, and understand his words.

poppajoe49
Member

You COUNT the minutes between your post and my response
It’s called reading the time stamps, a trick you have yet to master.

writing down the actual words, to show you that your paraphrasing was inaccurate and misleading.
Yet, I didn’t paraphrase, I quoted, therefore not being innacurate or misleading. It just doesn’t fit your beliefs and therefore must be a lie in your narrow little, demented mind.

your wife, who has been uninsured for some time, now wants to get insurance so she can get “free stuff” (i.e., be subsidized for some procedures she feels she needs).
Wrong again, she merely wanted to follow some misguided belief that if she didn’t get insurance, she would be breaking a law. She didn’t want the insurance, she thought she had to have it, and when I told her that she didn’t have to get it, just pay a small fine, she decided to pay the fine. She doesn’t need any medical procedures, but don’t let that get in the way of your demented little narrative.

you and your wife don’t want to pay for a private BC/BS policy
It’s not private if the government required you to have certain coverage.

I don’t need a pool, I have a nice one already.

Sidekick
Member

PJ, consider this quote from Jim Quinn: “Liberalism is the art of standing on your head and telling everyone around you that they’re upside-down.”

Kind of a twist on the CS Lewis’s quote: “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”

Olivia
Member

What I find interesting is that you are twisting the context of his words. If you had waited until the sycophants had quit applauding, he even repeated that nothing would require you to change your plan or doctor. How that can be out of context is amazing to me.
I also find it interesting that you replied to my previous posts within seconds, but the one with the video link took you 14 minutes to reply to.
***************
Oh, for Pete’s sake, Poopajoe. You COUNT the minutes between your post and my response….yet you accuse ME of being obsessed with YOU???

No, I didn’t consult “Media Matters.” What I was actually doing was listening to the video, and writing down the actual words, to show you that your paraphrasing was inaccurate and misleading.

Once again: the problem rests with YOU, not Obama. As you describe it, your wife, who has been uninsured for some time, now wants to get insurance so she can get “free stuff” (i.e., be subsidized for some procedures she feels she needs). You don’t want to pay the price for the insurance plan she chose, so you’re blaming Obama for not fixing that price for you.

Rant and call names all you want—–that’s the crux of your problem, yet you still lack the maturity and Personal Responsibility to admit that it’s not Obama’s problem if you and your wife don’t want to pay for a private BC/BS policy.

What’s next—-whining and crying because Obama won’t build you a new swimming pool?

poppajoe49
Member

What I find interesting is that you are twisting the context of his words. If you had waited until the sycophants had quit applauding, he even repeated that nothing would require you to change your plan or doctor. How that can be out of context is amazing to me.
I also find it interesting that you replied to my previous posts within seconds, but the one with the video link took you 14 minutes to reply to. Which leads me to the conclusion that since you said:
“Got a link to that exact quote, in those exact words?

Didn’t think so. That’s the problem with your right wing propagandists, Poopajoe: they have a habit of paraphrasing, rather than providing direct quotes, in order to spin what was actually said.”

You never heard that quote before, so you had to go ask your handlers at Media Matters what the talking point reply for that quote would be. Nobody that wasn’t following the lead of their left wing media darlings and their ministry of truth, would come up with the analysis of his words you did, and since you obviously never heard that quote before, you couldn’t have had an answer to that in your head, hence the extended time it took you to reply.

poppajoe49
Member

You obviously never get tired of twisting my words to make them fit your agenda.
What does “nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.” mean to you?
To me, it means that the plan someone has will be theirs to keep, without changing any of the specifics of the plan, yet, people are getting cancellation notices because their EXISTING PLANS don’t meet the REQUIREMENTS of Obamacare!
How does that fall in line with his promise?

You can’t answer that without twisting and lying. Give it up, we all see it for what it is, you are the only one who can’t comprehend the facts.

sa_rose
Member

Because he directed the congress aout the plan, and he KNEW insurance companies would per force increase premiums for many and cancell insurance all together for others. He did nothing to stop that because (he has said) that ultimately they want to detach insurance from employment and move to a single payer, government healthcare system.

GhostntheMachine
Member

…The orchestra wrote the rules?

Olivia
Member

Nobody twisted anything , Livvy. Except you. You are trying tomanipulate Obama’s words to sound like something they aren’t. Look at Poppa’s link. It shows him repeated saying the same thing. If you like you plan, you keep it. Period, Except so far, some 2 million people have had ther plans cancelled,, because they don’t meet Obamacare standards, and the NEW policies are significantly higher in cost.
*******************
And you’re convinced that those higher rates were orchestrated by Obama himself, and had nothing to do with decisions made by the insurance companies, because…….?

sa_rose
Member

Nobody twisted anything , Livvy. Except you. You are trying tomanipulate Obama’s words to sound like something they aren’t. Look at Poppa’s link. It shows him repeated saying the same thing. If you like you plan, you keep it. Period, Except so far, some 2 million people have had ther plans cancelled,, because they don’t meet Obamacare standards, and the NEW policies are significantly higher in cost.

poppajoe49
Member

You’re fucking delusional!
I’m done with you. You refuse to even see his words for what they were! Jay Carney has nothing on you!

Olivia
Member

You obviously never get tired of twisting my words to make them fit your agenda.
What does “nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.” mean to you?
To me, it means that the plan someone has will be theirs to keep, without changing any of the specifics of the plan, yet, people are getting cancellation notices because their EXISTING PLANS don’t meet the REQUIREMENTS of Obamacare!
How does that fall in line with his promise?
****************
It’s quite simple, Poopajoe: you took Obama’s words out of context, and twisted them to arrive at the conclusion you wanted to arrive at. Or, rather, your favorite propagandist did, and you readily swallowed it.

If you actually look at the context of his words, he was assuring the nation that the government wouldn’t dismantle existing insurance plans.

How odd that you, like a good little right winger, DEMANDED that health insurance remain a for-profit commodity rather than a right, and are now bitching that the insurance companies want too much money for that commodity.

How odd, too, that you’re so quick to blame Obama for insurance company practices, instead of blaming the insurance companies that set the prices.

But I guess it’s not odd at all that you’d be whining because Obama didn’t just hand your wife a BC/BS insurance policy, just because she wanted one but you didn’t feel like paying the price for it.

Sidekick
Member

It is much easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

Mark Twain.

poppajoe49
Member

I wonder if there will be any posts here when Oblivious loses her insurance.

sa_rose
Member

Of course not. I am not sure I believe her claim that nothing in her insurance has canged either, she thinks Obama is the messiah, and he can do no wrong. he would support executions if he recommended them, and would volunteer to be first, just to show her devotion.

Olivia
Member

Of course not. I am not sure I believe her claim that nothing in her insurance has canged either
************************

Of course you don’t, Rose, because you’ve been programmed not to believe anything that doesn’t echo what the right wing media tells you.

In fact, there have been plenty of success stories concerning the ACA, but you’ll never see them mentioned on FOX News, World Nut Daily, American Thinker or those other goofball sources the right goes to for their redefinition of reality. Or on right wing talk radio.

sa_rose
Member

And aother set up. Your health insurance hasn’t changed but I notice you had to complete a mini-physical for that to be true. What avbout those whose results from the miniphysical weren’t as good as your? What did THEIR premium do? I have never had to complete any sort of physical for an employer sponsored lan, so that caught my eye. They are looking for the ones that will cost more, and the premiums will follow those results whether this year, or next when the employer mandate kicks in.

Olivia
Member

And aother set up. Your health insurance hasn’t changed but I notice you had to complete a mini-physical for that to be true. What avbout those whose results from the miniphysical weren’t as good as your? What did THEIR premium do? I have never had to complete any sort of physical for an employer sponsored lan, so that caught my eye.
****************
I didn’t “have to” complete it, but completing it meant that my premiums would be frozen at the 2013 rate.

The purpose of the “mini physical” (which was actually just a lab draw, BP and weight, nothing more) is to establish a baseline for healthy lifestyle recommendations. Remember the booklet I said I received in the mail a few days later? It cited any abnormalities, and made recommendations to address them. For example, someone whose blood pressure was too high would have been told what constitutes a healthy BP, and given general recommendations, such as losing weight (if appropriate), getting more exercise, reducing salt intake and talking to his or her doctor about it. The purpose of the medical history is for making recommendations. For example, a history of hypothyroidism means adding a TSH to the other blood work.

The idea being that the client is a partner in his own health care, and can do quite a bit to control risk factors for the most common (and costly, and potentially disabling) medical problems. Obviously, there’s little or nothing you can do to prevent sarcomas. But there’s a whole lot you can do to prevent complications from other, more common disorders, as well as many of those disorders themselves. And, if they can get clients on board taking charge of their own health, it’s a savings for the insurance company, as well as the patient. THere’s nothing new about that concept.

Group insurance rates don’t come with individual prices (other than lower rates for full time employees, and commensurately higher with more family members being covered). The price we were quoted for 2014 health insurance doesn’t change, nor am I charged more for my insurance than a 23 year old part time coworker who’s never been sick. I’ve paid for company sponsored insurance for many years, Rose, and (except for maternity benefits) seldom put in any claims until the last few years. So it all evens out in the end.

sa_rose
Member

Which is why group healthplans are generally cheaper than private insurance. Th risk is spread out so that the premiums from the ones NOT requiring csre help to balance the cost of those who do need care. And again, In orderfor you to freeze your premiums at the 2013 rate, you had to gt this miniphusical (that is what those screening are generally called in the insurance world.) WHat was your premium cost if you DIDN’T do the miniphysical?

Olivia
Member

About 22% higher.

poppajoe49
Member

Good point Rose, and I find it interesting that someone who just went through the health problems she did, is not getting an increase, it’s not like she isn’t susceptible to having further problems, and that is an expensive treatment, and she now has a “pre-existing” condition.

Olivia
Member

That’s because you don’t understand the concept behind group insurance policies, Poopajoe. Every employee is charged the same rates, although part time, of course, is quoted a higher rate than full time.

The longer this argument goes on, the more painfully clear it becomes to me that those making the most noise here really don’t know what they’re talking about.

sa_rose
Member

Actually, part time doesn’t usually GET insurance. It is generally reserved as a benefit for the full timers.

poppajoe49
Member

The longer this argument goes on, the more painfully clear it becomes to me that those making the most noise here really don’t know what they’re talking about.

True, since you have by far the most posts on this thread.