You could have heard a pin drop

by editor on May 30, 2011

JFK’s Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, was in France in the early 60′s when Charles de Gaule decided to pull out of NATO. De Gaule said he wanted all US military out of France as soon as possible.

Rusk responded,

“Does that include those who are buried here?”

DeGuale did not respond.

You could have heard a pin drop.

***

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of ‘empire building’ by George Bush.

He answered by saying, “Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.”

You could have heard a pin drop.

***

There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying, “Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intend to do, bomb them?”

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: “Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?”

You could have heard a pin drop.

***

A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S., English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of officers that included personnel from most of those countries.

Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English. He then asked, “Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?”

Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied, “Maybe it’s because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn’t have to speak German.”

You could have heard a pin drop.

***

And finally…

Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on.

“You have been to France before, monsieur?” the customs officer asked sarcastically.

Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.

“Then you should know enough to have your passport ready.”

The American said, “The last time I was here, I didn’t have to show it.”

“Impossible. Americans always have to show their passports upon arrival in France!”

The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained, ”Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn’t find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to.”

You could have heard a pin drop.

H/T: OC Madam

{ 107 comments… read them below or add one }

KimmyQueen May 30, 2011 at 1:39 am

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Even if apocryphal, those stories are awesome.

Sidekick May 30, 2011 at 5:37 am

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I came here to say that too. I have doubts about the first one because France did not withdraw from NATO until 1968. Still if Rusk or anyone else said that. Awesome.

ocmadam May 30, 2011 at 6:53 am

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France did not withdraw from NATO because of pressure from the US and other NATO countries. Rusk’s comment and other’s like it from our NATO allies kept France in NATO

KimmyQueen May 31, 2011 at 1:21 pm

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OK that is fine. I wasn’t born yet nor was it something that I would know offhand for a lot of reasons. It SOUNDED apocryphal, but that didn’t take anything from the message.

alien May 30, 2011 at 7:40 am

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It was 1966, Rusk was LBJ’s man, and he was carrying the President’s response

(damn sorry for accidental downvote UNDO UNDO)

Sidekick May 30, 2011 at 9:34 am

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No problem re the down vote. You are correct; it was 1966 when France withdrew from the military organization of NATO. See, Olivia, grownups will own up to an error.

alien May 31, 2011 at 2:22 pm

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I try to own up too.. i regularly mistake the old advice and often baffle myself with my own bullsh-t..

But i didn’t necessarily want to quibble over the year.. just that I’ve long heard that it was LBJ’s words, and i had to look it up

DeanH June 21, 2011 at 10:55 pm

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Rusk began his tenure in JFK’s administration and LBJ kept him on board after he and his pals succeeded in assassinating Kennedy. Rusk was a rotten, lying dog. That he was able to put a slap on old Chucky D didn’t make him a patriot, just well armed in the wits department.

harry May 30, 2011 at 1:44 am

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excellent!

Ken May 30, 2011 at 2:44 am

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To the greatest defenders of freedom the world has ever known, Ken from Canada would like to say Thank You for your sacrifice.

Sidekick May 30, 2011 at 5:38 am

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Thank you for the kind words.

Barb R. May 30, 2011 at 7:00 pm

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Ditto that, Ken.

Barb from Canada

danybhoy May 31, 2011 at 4:05 am

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I just back from Canada on Victoria Day, & I enjoyed my stay. I have been treated very well both times I’ve been in Canada, & it’s a nation worth defending.

shagger May 30, 2011 at 3:55 am

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Hear, Hear Ken.

I would add this… America’s strength is an awesome thing to behold. But this pales into insignificance when one considers Her people’s bravery – & their willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice. Even for the sake of those who have proven to be consistently useless at defending their own territory; & habitually ungrateful to their liberators.

The French just wouldn’t understand. They are too busy being superior.

hisham May 30, 2011 at 7:15 am

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Are you paying attention Olivia?

danybhoy May 31, 2011 at 4:07 am

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I doubt it, people like that always view America like a figure skating judge. Always looking for deductions, never the positives.

Olivia June 15, 2011 at 9:53 am

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I doubt it, people like that always view America like a figure skating judge. Always looking for deductions, never the positives.

***********************
ANOTHER bogus stereotype, obviously designed to enable xenophobes to claim victimhood.

Get back to me when you’ve actually talked to a real French person, rather than just parroting what somebody told you on the internet.

(And, yes, I can tell when you’re parroting hearsay rather than speaking from experience. Anyone familiar with France or French people can see through such drivel.)

RockingHorseGuy June 20, 2011 at 12:33 pm

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You know, I’m against banning Olivia from posting on this site, because I believe in the Constitution. Sure, she’s an idiot, sure she’s smug and condescending, but she has a right to that. But maybe you guys could ban her from this page? Just out of respect for our fallen heroes?

DeanH June 21, 2011 at 10:48 pm

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I concur. In many cases, not just the nut jobs like her but all that post long winded blather, usually repeating lots of material for whatever reason, exposing their arrogance and prevaricating with each attempt at retort, it becomes our duty, the people of IHTM, to jam thumbs down just to make it less cumbersome to read the material that actually makes sense. For those who see any value in any of her drivel – Hello, Dave Bishop – they can go through the extra step of ‘clicking to see’.

Fortunately, we seem fairly diligent in our effort to hide that crap thereby making navigation to the material that we want to read that much less difficult. It is a special joy to see a fresh post from one of these dookers with no thumbs down yet applied, then reading it as far as needed to get to the point of hitting thumb down and having that number jump from 0 to 3 or 4, indicating our fellow IHTMers are conducting themselves in the process at the same time and to know that scrolling through the postings will be that much easier immediately! It’s like a neighborhood watch kinda thing.

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 5:58 am

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I concur. In many cases, not just the nut jobs like her but all that post long winded blather, usually repeating lots of material for whatever reason, exposing their arrogance and prevaricating with each attempt at retort, it becomes our duty, the people of IHTM, to jam thumbs down just to make it less cumbersome to read the material that actually makes sense.

*******************
Translation: “I wanna be able to make bigoted remarks about French people without Olivia jumping in and cramping my style.”

RockingHorseGuy June 22, 2011 at 10:59 am

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Speaking of which, I just disappeared another of her nonsensical postings. I feel better now.

Maxsteele May 30, 2011 at 4:31 am

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MaxSteele from Canada joins Ken, lowering his head in a moment of silence, in respecting the men and women that have sacrificed so much so that the world may have a chance at freedom.

danybhoy May 31, 2011 at 4:15 am

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Maxi, here is a tribute of sorts. It is set to “These Colours Don’t Run”, by favorite band…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xVue2kx1G8

…I also love how well it is put together, & I love the different eras the photos come from. I love this clip, & I hope you can appreciate it.

whiskeyriver June 1, 2011 at 8:50 pm

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How about we say a little prayer together Max, you do not have to “lower your head” to anyone. There is no such thing as “you” or “me” in the fight for freedom for all, it is a “we” thing. We Americans are a proud people but none of us who have fought beside you are so arrogant as to think we fought the good fight alone.

Please, allow me to lower my head in a moment of silence in tribute to the men and women from Canada it was my priviledge to serve with.

moudoka May 30, 2011 at 5:12 am

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How quickly and easily some people seem to forget the great things our service men and women have done through the years. It hasn’t always been an easy ride, but when something needed done, we didn’t need to rush into villages and force people into service. There are millions who willingly stand up, raise their hand, and say “I will go.”

To all those who have fallen on distant shores, for whatever reason, in which ever conflict, rest in peace.

Stacey May 30, 2011 at 5:16 am

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GOD BLESS America

LA Sunset May 30, 2011 at 5:25 am

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Of course it is not true of all Frenchmen. But over the many years I have been involved with the things I have done, I have encountered a good many French who have this unjustified envy and jealousy of America and the values she has stood for. Most of the French citizenry were not alive when the German tanks rolled in and most of the French military dropped their weapons and surrendered. Most have fallen into the trap of the revisionists who make it sound like America and Britain were not as instrumental in the liberation of their country as they really were.

I once had the pleasure of speaking to a man who was a member of the French underground. He was one of the handful of brave men who were ashamed of the way his countrymen had acted when Hitler decided France belonged to Germany. Thankfully, there were enough of them who were not afraid to do what they could to subvert the Nazi occupiers enough, so as to soften up the interior for the allied forces who made it through the beach at Omaha.

We could have won without them, but we would have taken a lot more time and it would have cost a lot more American and British lives. Because of them we were able to minimize our losses greatly and achieve victory on that front much quicker than we could have otherwise expected.

This man I speak of was not particularly proud that his countrymen were so quick to give up. He was not particularly tickled at the thought that he and the other brave men and women had to fight a subversive underground campaign, to save his nation from the hands of the evil forces that had invaded it. Being caught meant instant death without any trial. There was no UN and if there had been, they would have been weak and powerless like they are today.

The interesting thing about this man was not that he related these thoughts at the time. The interesting thing was that he had been an American citizen for 50+ years when we had this conversation. In the DeGaulle era, he watched the revisionists try to rationalize the cowardice of the ones who gave up and minimize the efforts of the Underground. He decided he wanted to be on the right side of history the rest of his life and sought to live and die as an American.

So I expect Olivia will come and try to explain away the French attitude, but she cannot change the truth of what really happened all those years ago in the land that now holds its American ally in so much undeserved and unwarranted contempt.

RIM May 30, 2011 at 5:39 am

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LA, great post! Thank you. And THANKS to all men women who have served or are serving their country. Without you we would not be Free. God Bless you all.

LA Sunset May 30, 2011 at 7:15 am

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Thanks, RIM

Sidekick May 30, 2011 at 5:40 am

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Someone like Olivia will reference the Treaty of Versailles to excuse away Hitler and the Nazi movement.

LA Sunset May 30, 2011 at 7:14 am

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Olivia thinks asphalt is a butt disease. Why would we be surprised at any excuse she would attempt pass off, as a realistic explanation for anything?

redabogado May 30, 2011 at 8:39 am

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LA, just to let you know, none of the multi-national forces I fought with held their pinky in the air! But then again, none were French nor dope smokers from Harvard.

LA Sunset May 30, 2011 at 12:22 pm

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I spent a lot of time with the German and the Dutch Armies. I wouldn’t say they were pinky in the air kind of men either. They were a lot of fun to hang around with. The French were total and complete sh*theads. I have never seen a group of more arrogant effeminate soldiers, in my life. If it wasn’t for the nukes, I don’t think France could beat Rhode Island in a war.

perlcat June 4, 2011 at 9:15 pm

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…of course they couldn’t. Rhode island is the home of Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne. They’d fail at the gates to the worm farm!

Olivia June 19, 2011 at 12:12 pm

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I spent a lot of time with the German and the Dutch Armies. I wouldn’t say they were pinky in the air kind of men either. They were a lot of fun to hang around with. The French were total and complete sh*theads. I have never seen a group of more arrogant effeminate soldiers, in my life. If it wasn’t for the nukes, I don’t think France could beat Rhode Island in a war.

**************************
Translation: “I’ve never been within 100 miles of a real live French soldier. But my buddies on this board are so gullible, they’ll believe any nonsense I claim about the French army, especially if it fits their favorite stereotype.”

Olivia June 15, 2011 at 9:09 am

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So I expect Olivia will come and try to explain away the French attitude, but she cannot change the truth of what really happened all those years ago in the land that now holds its American ally in so much undeserved and unwarranted contempt.

**************************
Now, how did I happen to miss this topic from over 2 weeks ago? I love these “you could have heard a pin drop” stories, because they always peddle the same cheap sentiment: the idea that the U.S. is better than other countries, and therefore doesn’t have to hold itself to high standards of behavior, education or respect for other cultures. ;)

In fact, LA, it’s not true that French people in general hold Americans in contempt. That notion dates back to the aftermath of WWII, and is based largely on cultural misunderstandings. http://www.e-rcps.com/gripes/

The idea gained popularity during the Bush years, when loyal Republicans hastened to ridicule and despise everything French (or with the word “French” in it—-remember “freedom fries”?), to punish France for not going along with Bush’s Iraq invasion. And stories like these were extremely popular, because they seemed to suggest that Bush was despised in France, not for his swaggering-cowboy demeanor or his imperialistic leanings, but because he was so much braver and stronger and greater and purer of heart than any other leader. Yeah, right. ;)

The rest was filled in by xenophobes—–you know, the kind who proudly assert that they patronize only restaurants that refuse to serve people who don’t speak fluent English? It’s the old “France hates Americans” whine, trumpeted primarily by people who have never been to France at all, or who went on a brief tour, and didn’t associate with any French people if they could help it.

How do I know this? Because I lived in France for a while, and still go back every year to visit. Because I discuss this and other related issues with French acquaintances. And because I see a huge difference in the French perception of the U.S., ever since Obama was elected. Not all French people like Obama, but most regard him as a huge improvement over Bush, whom they didn’t trust.

And, actually, I can “explain away” some of your prejudices against France quite easily. First, you have to bear in mind that France suffered huge losses during WWI, as did much of Europe. That’s why they still call that war the “Great War”—-because, for them, it was even more destructive than WWII. In fact, France lost over 1, 397, 000 soldiers—which translated into almost 5% of their total population. (As opposed to 0.13% of our country’s population.) And that doesn’t include civilians, or those who were permanently disabled from the war.

Second, it’s a myth that France just surrendered when Germany attacked. In fact, France could never have defeated Germany’s huge war machine by itself. The Battle of France alone killed 100,000 French soldiers, and wounded hundreds of thousands more.

And, third, I’m glad you and your convenient WWII vet friend think that the U.S. could have singlehandedly won the war without help from France. It would seem that General Patton (ever hear of him?) and other American military brass disagreed: http://www.e-rcps.com/gripes/17.html

I always have to chuckle at far right wing Amurricans who boast of other countries’ “envy and jealousy” of what we stand for. Apparently you don’t realize that France stands for the very same things (ever hear their national motto, “Liberté, égalité, fraternité”? Did you think we Americans were NOT in favor of those same things?

I think it would do some of you diehard Francophobes a world of good to spend some time in France—-not on a carefully organized American tour, but actually mingling with the locals. You’d find, pretty quickly, that
1) while many French people and other foreigners admire the U.S. in many different ways, it’s a myth that they regard our country as superior to their own. And that’s as it should be.

2) the notion that French people detest Americans is pure hogwash. I’ve always found that all you need to do, to earn the friendship and trust of French people, is to love their country and its culture, and show it in your attitude. And, if you leave your xenophobia and defensiveness at home when you visit there, it’s one of the easiest places in the world to love.

3) they really do have some good ideas there, that we would do well to study, and perhaps use in our own country. And it’s no more disloyal to admit to that, than it would be for WalMart to observe a successful idea used by Target, and think of doing something similar in its own stores.

deepthinker May 30, 2011 at 5:59 am

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Those through out the world have no idea what the American Service person will do and has done. They don’t want us any where near them until shit hits the fan and then we can get there fast enough.

Once while working in DC, I was invited to attend a dinner where many individuals who did work for and with ASNE. In attendance was many from different countries. One at the table I was seated at was a Frenchman who was a member of the French Navy. He started in about America this and America that. After a few adult beverages I had enough of his mouth. He started again. At which point, I let him know if it where not for the Americans his dumb ass and whole damn country would be speaking German. It was the American who had saved their asses from the Germans.

The next morning I got called into the head of the ASNE and asked about what had happened. He listened, sat a minute, then said “nice and accurate comment”

God Bless the American Service Man and Woman and all who stand in harms way.

Olivia June 15, 2011 at 9:24 am

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Once while working in DC, I was invited to attend a dinner where many individuals who did work for and with ASNE. In attendance was many from different countries. One at the table I was seated at was a Frenchman who was a member of the French Navy. He started in about America this and America that. After a few adult beverages I had enough of his mouth. He started again. At which point, I let him know if it where not for the Americans his dumb ass and whole damn country would be speaking German. It was the American who had saved their asses from the Germans.

The next morning I got called into the head of the ASNE and asked about what had happened. He listened, sat a minute, then said “nice and accurate comment”

**********************
Heaven help us, it’s yet another sanctimonious Amurrican patriot boasting about saving French people’s butts. My husband and I have a running joke whenever we’re in France, and encountering an inconvenience (like waiting in a line, or finding out that a museum there charges a higher admission price than we’d expected). As if on cue, we’ll look at each other and say, “Do you think we ought to bring up the butt saving again, and see if it gets us better service?”

But I’m digressing. Back to your anecdote, which I’ve heard at least 100 variations of in Reader’s Digest and on the internet. Any French sailor worth his salt would have immediately responded, “And you Americans would be subjects of Queen Elizabeth II today, if France hadn’t come to your aid during your revolution.”

I’m always amused, too, that no one who tells this story ever reveals exactly what the alleged French sailor said about the U.S. that caused such offense. Surely it couldn’t have been any nastier than some of the insults I’m seeing posted right here about France?

Ruben May 30, 2011 at 6:27 am

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Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Rest well all those who have fallen in defense of our liberty.

Thank you to our Canadian friends for their heartfelt words.

DJ May 30, 2011 at 9:42 pm

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Great comments all…especially from our good neighbor to the north, Canada.

What a blessed country we have and we are even more blessed with the brave men and women that protect us day in and day out while we sleep peacefully and go about our lives.

I worked with two women years ago who were young children during WWII. One was British, the other French. They would tell me stories of war torn Britain and France…my friend’s father was in the French resistance and was killed for it…so she had to help her mother with her little restaurant to survive.

The common theme would be the utmost compassion of the American GI…they would tell me that they would give chocolate, candy and gum, even their meals to the children so they wouldn’t go hungry.

To hear stories like those from an adult through a child’s eyes after decades had passed, would give any American tears in their eyes and lumps in their throats. Guaranteed.

God Bless America.

hisham May 30, 2011 at 7:43 am

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I’m so glad God allowed me to be born American. I’ve been in shit hole countries where life is hard and vicious, clean water is a luxury, food is whatever is at hand, opportunity favors the ruthless, and GOD seems to be very far away! We need HIM now more than ever, but he has favored and blessed this land of ours and all we need to do is be more grateful for that fact. Some of us, and I won’t name names (Olivia, et al.) seem to be more French in their world view than the rest of us, you know the type, the glass is half empty…they would do well to remember that great sacrifices were made by others so that they could hold their useless, spineless, idiotic views. It wasn’t socialism that won World War II, no it was socialism that started it and it was America and her allies that ended it. Unfortunately, socialism, like a great life’s blood sucking tick managed to survive and thrive primarily because this nation does not make a habit of warring with its neighbors and enforcing its national agenda upon the world, despite the best attempts of the Olivias of the world to convince us to the contrary. God bless America and God bless our sons and daughters in uniform! Oh and BTW Olivia, just for the record, France was the birthplace of communism and you being a big Frenchy French fan and all, I suppose you’re a big fan of all things French…does that include marxist socialist communism? Olivia, you truely belong at the back of the bus!

KimmyQueen May 30, 2011 at 8:18 am

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Well I wasn’t born in the USA, but I do thank G-d that He has blessed my path to be here and take advantage of the opportunities here while I apport to the country with the best of my talents. There is a lot to be thankful for indeed and as a (legal) immigrant and citizen I am very happy to be here and be part of this culture. G-d bless the whole world of course, but it doesn’t hurt to make an extra prayer for the USA.

hisham May 30, 2011 at 9:44 pm

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KQ you and people like you are always welcome here and dear to our hearts, it’s the Olivias of the world that feel a need to throw a wrench into the spokes! She and her ilk are always trying to fix what ain’t broke!

KimmyQueen May 31, 2011 at 1:24 pm

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TY. No country is perfect, but the foundations for this country are sound. They are trying to fundamentally change everything even the foundations. I am not down with that.

danybhoy May 31, 2011 at 8:06 pm

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The people I find that get what America’s about tend to be from nations that leave you wanting. They want to live the American dream because we have what they believe in what America is supposed to be. All they want is a chance, & came here for it. That is the type of person I want coming here, & KQ is 1 such person.

KimmyQueen May 31, 2011 at 8:39 pm

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Thank you Danybhoy!

Olivia June 19, 2011 at 12:13 pm

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They want to live the American dream because we have what they believe in what America is supposed to be. All they want is a chance, & came here for it. That is the type of person I want coming here
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Don’t look now, Dany, but that pretty much describes most illegal immigrants.

danybhoy June 20, 2011 at 5:24 pm

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I can respect the fact people want to come here to the USA, but DO IT LEGALLY! Every time I have crossed international borders, I have done it legally, at a border checkpoint, & presenting my passport. By rationalizating illegal aliens, you are diminishing the American dream. I know more several folks who have left places like Iran, Poland, Czech Republic, Georgia, Mexico, Northern Ireland, & Bulgaria, plus others who have come from Africa & communist Asia, & they have done it legally, not illegally. They played by the rules, done things right, & you find it acceptable to have people just jump a border fence & cut in line. You need to understand what it means to live in a sovereign nation, without secure borders, you ain’t too sovereign.

BTW, Kimmy Queen is a person that followed the rules & did things LEGALLY. She is the sort of person who should be pissed off at those cutting in line. You on the other hand, don’t seem to mind, & I’m not surprised.

Olivia June 21, 2011 at 12:21 pm

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BTW, Kimmy Queen is a person that followed the rules & did things LEGALLY. She is the sort of person who should be pissed off at those cutting in line. You on the other hand, don’t seem to mind, & I’m not surprised.

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Where did you get the idea that I don’t “mind”? I do. But it’s impossible to have a productive dialogue about illegal immigration without identifying causative factors, and one of those causative factors is poverty and lack of opportunity in one’s home country.

It’s all very well to say, “DO IT LEGALLY!”—-but it takes money, plus many years on a waiting list (as well as evidence of a job waiting for one) for a Mexican citizen, for example, to qualify for legal entry into the U.S. Thus, for those who are most in need of jobs and money, the opportunity to come is virtually nonexistent.

That, not any malicious desire to thumb their noses at YOU, is what prompts so many poor Mexican people to risk what little they have to sneak over the border. And, if we don’t take that desperation into account, no amount of barrier building and hostility is likely to keep them out.

David Bishop June 21, 2011 at 1:59 pm

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Actually, the largest error in our immigration policies is people who do not study economic’s beliefs that illegal immigrants are a strain on our economy. They aren’t. The biggest problem with our immigration policies is our lack of a secure fence. Even Mexico is building a large fence across it’s southern border because of criminal entry at it’s south.

3 things everyone should be able to get behind:
1. Build the wall (this MUST happen first, as every other attempt at immigration reform has promised this and never delivered) (PS: The Titan/Monumental/Stark Bros construction firms put together an estimate between the three of them. They are able to make pretty much the most badass wall ever, complete with motion-sensing cameras, razor wire, re-bar-enforced concrete, and revamps of current border crossing points: All at a price tag that is relatively low when you consider we borrow 4 billion dollars a day: 60 Billion)
2. Increase the amount of high-skilled and low-skilled visas that the US allows. We are getting left in the dust on the upper end of our technological development because our utterly low amount of immigrants we allow to fall in this category. Migrant labor (the low skill end of this curve) visas need to be expanded too, in order to incentivize legal entry as opposed to criminal entry.
3. Develop a well defined amnesty program that both parties can get behind. It must state in the bill, that illegal immigrants unwilling to accept amnesty will be deported, fined, or jailed.

Over 60% of our highest skilled jobs are held by immigrants. We are a nation of immigrants. We just do not want people illegally crossing and we don’t understand why our parties cannot come together and do this.

perlcat June 21, 2011 at 2:19 pm

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I dunno.

I think the wall ignores the financial incentive people have to violate our laws. Much like during Prohibition, what will happen is Organized Crime will find ways to bring people over. There is a lot of desperation there, and no wall can keep people out if there’s money to be made.

Far better to remove the economic incentive by adding teeth to hiring practices. If you stop businesses and congressmen from hiring illegals on a cash basis, and actually deal with identity theft via social security number fraud , you’ll go a long ways towards removing the cash incentive. Why not simply have the SSA stop ignoring clear violations where they get pay reported for the same ssn from two entirely different parts of the country?

I think the immigration process needs to be reformed, too. However, I am not so excited about bringing in professionals. We educate our professionals just fine here, and many times, the immigrants are used as tools to depress wages. Rather than letting market forces push wages for skilled labor up, I have to contend with people wanting to do my job for far, far, far less than I would consider acceptable for the education & experience I have.

I also don’t care for amnesty, because unless it is used in conjunction with actual reform, it actually makes the problem worse. After all, all’s they have to do is wait our laws out.

Alien June 21, 2011 at 2:42 pm

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i’ve read that 40% of illegals got in perfectly legally, and just wore out their welcome.. (student & work visas, etc..)

AZ is ready to kill biz that doesn’t comply.. On the other hand, i’m not sure Pei Wei tastes as good as it used to, since the raid

perlcat June 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm

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There is an enormous financial incentive to hire illegals at a much lower rate than legals — and they are highly unlikely to unionize or complain about working conditions. I know of several episodes in a meatpacking town that shall remain nameless where machinery that would never be tolerated around a non-illegal workforce has torn arms off several times.

A construction crew outside where I was working had obvious illegals working — I can tell because of the *complete* lack of safety equipment. They aren’t getting paid to complain. They were running jackhammers breaking up concrete. No gloves. No hearing protection. No breathing protection. After a year or so if this, their health will be completely wrecked. Silicosis is nasty.

Ordinarily, I like businesses, but this is just too much for me — if I could imprison or deport the owners, I would, but would settle for hurting them as much as possible financially. If there is no money in it, they will stop doing it.

RockingHorseGuy June 22, 2011 at 11:04 am

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I think it would only take a few “perp walks” of major CEO’s, in their chains and orange jumpsuits, on national television, to get the huge majority of illegals booted out of their jobs. Without jobs, most will go home. The others are already involved in crime, (other than their being here illegally), or will turn to crime. Then they should feel the heavy hand of the law before being deported.

perlcat June 22, 2011 at 11:10 am

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I have to admit that seeing the people in suits that essentially create this situation in order to whore good-paying jobs down to nothing in jumpsuits and chains would be delicious. Just not sure that our government would have the fortitude to do it, especially since they’re in on the act.

KimmyQueen June 21, 2011 at 1:56 pm

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Thank you. There are countless people that worked hard and long in order to do things right. A lot of us ARE pissed at those cutting in line. Even though we UNDERSTAND the plight of the very poor and so on and so forth, it still does not give them the right to cut the line AND get all benefits that by right it should go to legal citizens and legal immigrants to this country. All countries with porous borders and lax immigration policies end up like France or like us… broke ass. So, at some point in time NO ONE will have any benefits at all. The illegals then will move on like locusts to other pastures, those of us who did things correctly and those that were born here will be left without nothing and perhaps be placed in the position to move on to another country to leech off them. I didn’t leave a country properly to leave this country in order to enter another country improperly because this country went broke ass. How is that awesome? It isn’t.

Olivia June 15, 2011 at 9:29 am

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Some of us, and I won’t name names (Olivia, et al.) seem to be more French in their world view than the rest of us, you know the type, the glass is half empty…they would do well to remember that great sacrifices were made by others so that they could hold their useless, spineless, idiotic views.
*********************
Where do you get the idea that I don’t love this country, Hisham? Do you think it’s impossible for a person to love another country, besides his own?

Kip Hooker May 30, 2011 at 2:38 pm

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ROFLMAO, this is perfect!

Jim Stewart May 30, 2011 at 6:28 pm

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One of my favorites in this vein:

Berlin, circa 1960, the airport is busy and an American pilot radios for taxi instructions to the terminal.
Controller: Have you not been here before?
Pilot: Yes, in 1945, but I didn’t land.

Keith in Seattle May 31, 2011 at 7:36 am

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The comments here warm my heart and make me proud to be here. My family have all served and I mourn them but also remember them with pride. We are all in this together and should work to get along but the liberal mindset doesn’t see things this way and the French, well, don’t get me started. You can google, “famous French Victories” and it’ll come back as, “don’t you mean famous French defeats?”

Olivia June 15, 2011 at 9:32 am

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The comments here warm my heart and make me proud to be here. My family have all served and I mourn them but also remember them with pride. We are all in this together and should work to get along but the liberal mindset doesn’t see things this way and the French, well, don’t get me started. You can google, “famous French Victories” and it’ll come back as, “don’t you mean famous French defeats?”

*************************
And yet ANOTHER gullible soul obediently parrots his anti-French propaganda. How can you say you think “we are all in this together and should work to get along” while you’re spewing ignorant insults about France and the French people?

Need I even guess how you’d be sputtering with indignation if a French poster showed up on this board, and started flinging similar insults at us Americans?

Deb June 1, 2011 at 9:37 am

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The sad part is there are many average French citizens who don’t feel that way at all. I recently watched a piece on TV about the overseas military cemetaries. They are beautifully kept, and locals have adopted individual graves, since there is no family to care for them, decorate them, etc. People aho lived through that era have nothing but good to say about the American GI’s who liberated them from the Germans. Now if the psychos could spend some time with those people. expect their attitude would improve. Everyone hates us until they need us, then when the crisis is past, they hate us again. Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity. Maybe we should re-evaluate our responses.

Olivia June 15, 2011 at 9:47 am

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The sad part is there are many average French citizens who don’t feel that way at all. I recently watched a piece on TV about the overseas military cemetaries. They are beautifully kept, and locals have adopted individual graves, since there is no family to care for them, decorate them, etc.
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Absolutely true. (Although the official military cemeteries belong to, and are maintained by, our own government.) A small town near the town I lived in in France has a memorial to three American GIs who died during its liberation. I remember reading a local newspaper article back then, about a local woman who’d taken it upon herself to care for that memorial, including placing flowers on it, for the past 26 years.

The thing is, the people in France are reminded of that war every single day. You can’t drive even one km in France, without encountering some sort of memorial of the war. Streets named Avenue Franklin Roosevelt, Route de la Libération or Rue des Déportées exist in many of their bigger towns. It’s not uncommon in Paris to see a plaque outside a building that says, “On this spot, 2 loyal members of the FFI were executed by Germans on August 23, 1944.” Once, while sitting in a Paris cafe, I was unnerved to see a plaque on the wall next to my left ear that read, “On this spot, (insert name here) of the French Resistance, was gunned down on (insert date here).” And I still recall one time, while driving through Normandy in our American car we’d had shipped over from the U.S., still sporting U.S. license plates, we encountered an elderly French man waiting to cross the street. He peered curiously at our American car as we drove by, noticed the license plates, gave us a big smile and saluted us.

They haven’t forgotten. I don’t think they ever will. And I don’t see how they ever could.

Olivia June 19, 2011 at 12:09 pm

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And I still recall one time, while driving through Normandy in our American car we’d had shipped over from the U.S., still sporting U.S. license plates, we encountered an elderly French man waiting to cross the street. He peered curiously at our American car as we drove by, noticed the license plates, gave us a big smile and saluted us.

They haven’t forgotten. I don’t think they ever will. And I don’t see how they ever could.

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How odd that three posters voted down this comment. Do you not approve of elderly French citizens showing gratitude and respect to the U.S.?

David Bishop June 19, 2011 at 2:23 pm

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Please look at someone’s response before you downgrade it. Not every post by Olivia is drivel. She is a human being who does us the courtesy of responding to our comments, even when negative, with well-read responses. She’s not a troll, and sometimes, as in the case above, her response is a nice read.

Olivia June 19, 2011 at 2:43 pm

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Please look at someone’s response before you downgrade it. Not every post by Olivia is drivel. She is a human being who does us the courtesy of responding to our comments, even when negative, with well-read responses. She’s not a troll, and sometimes, as in the case above, her response is a nice read.

*******************
Thank you, David. Since both of our fathers served in WWII (mine in France and Germany; my husband’s in the south Pacific), it was nice to see that their efforts were still appreciated, some 60 years after the fact.

An older man in our tiny French town once told us that he remembered, as a small child, standing on the sidewalk with his grandmother watching American troops roll into town. Since then, I’ve wondered if my father might have been one of them……

David Bishop June 19, 2011 at 2:48 pm

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My great-grandfather served in WW1. My grandfather served in WW2, my father served during the Korean war and then again in Vietnam. So, I have similar sentiments, myself participating in both Iraq, and Afghanistan. I am very proud of my lineage of service to this country.

KimmyQueen June 19, 2011 at 2:52 pm

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I have read and understood your post and my decision is to do whatever the heck I want. If I believe that her post is worthy of a downvote I shall do so and there is no one on this Earth that is going to stop me. If you love her and you think that she is not a troll that is your opinion and that is all good, I have no problem with you loving her and desiring to read her posts. I just happen to disagree that she is all that and a bag of chips. She ain’t. She bores me and she is a stalker. She goes around insulting people and when someone gives it back to her she gets all insulted and self-righteous like she is porcelain and we are bulls. Whatever I am tired of her and the more space that we can make on the threads by downvoting her that way I don’t have to scroll through long ass and mindless crap the better.

Cheers.

Olivia June 19, 2011 at 4:32 pm

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She bores me and she is a stalker. She goes around insulting people and when someone gives it back to her she gets all insulted and self-righteous like she is porcelain and we are bulls.
***********************
Now, Kimmy, tell the truth and shame the Devil. I don’t get “all insulted” at the nasty things you say to me. Most of the time, I just say, “Translation: I can’t dispute the point you’re making, so I’m just going to fling insults instead.” It’s hard to take someone seriously in a discussion when s/he regularly brags about voting a post down without bothering to read it.

But that’s okay. I do understand why you feel you can’t respond to the post rather than the poster. And, when all is said and done, it’s probably for the best that you not even try.

RockingHorseGuy June 20, 2011 at 12:37 pm

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Gee, that wasn’t smug and condescending at all.

KimmyQueen June 20, 2011 at 1:21 pm

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I didnt even bother reading her tripe. She just PROVES my point at every corner.

Olivia June 20, 2011 at 1:24 pm

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Gee, that wasn’t smug and condescending at all.

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She had it coming, RockingHorse.

I’m not a vindictive person, but when people repeatedly shove me, sometimes I shove back.

Is that a problem for you?

danybhoy June 20, 2011 at 5:26 pm

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No problem, we have the right to free speech…for now anyways. Use it while you have it.

RockingHorseGuy June 21, 2011 at 11:19 am

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Regardless of the situation, it was smug and condescending. As is every post Olivia makes.

KimmyQueen June 21, 2011 at 11:58 am

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I personally find it rich that when a person comes into a site and insults everyone FIRST then gets self-righteous about being insulted back. It is so hilarious. That is why I am done with Olivia and her tripe.

Alien June 21, 2011 at 1:39 pm

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a chronology would be interesting..
I recall Olivia arriving and relentlessly questioning assertions.. Then the reprisals began, but she won’t back down. She might’ve made a good lawyer, i’m thinking.

I get smacked with insult to this day, but moreso when i arrived doing the same thing. But she’s way more into the scrap than i am. I’m just trying to figure people out. I think we’re screwed if we Americans can’t figure each other out

Barb R. June 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm

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“a chronology would be interesting..
I recall Olivia arriving and relentlessly questioning assertions..”

I don’t remember “relentlessly questioning assertions”, but I do remember that one of the first things she did was call us racists. That was back on May 17th, the story about Cynthia McKinney. She called us racists and then finished with a great big smiley face. I guess that was to make us racists feel better.

perlcat June 21, 2011 at 3:51 pm

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I remember every thing I said was apparently something I “got from Rush”. Given that I had made a point of saying that I don’t listen to him, I was a little unsure where she got that. Possibly her dogma had rabiesma.

Deb June 21, 2011 at 7:46 pm

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She has repeatedly referred to us on various comment sites that we are uneducated, ill-tempered, ill-informed, since she assumes everyone listens to Beck, Limbaugh “and right winger nut jobs.” She also has a condescending tone to every comment, refuses to accept documantation or substantiation of OUR posts, because they aren’t acceptable sources for her. SHe is not a pleasant person, and she can never just say let’s agree to disagree on that one. She HAS to be RIGHT and she HAS to have the last word.

Example:Olivia June 19, 2011 at 12:12 pm
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I spent a lot of time with the German and the Dutch Armies. I wouldn’t say they were pinky in the air kind of men either. They were a lot of fun to hang around with. The French were total and complete sh*theads. I have never seen a group of more arrogant effeminate soldiers, in my life. If it wasn’t for the nukes, I don’t think France could beat Rhode Island in a war.

**************************
Translation: “I’ve never been within 100 miles of a real live French soldier. But my buddies on this board are so gullible, they’ll believe any nonsense I claim about the French army, especially if it fits their favorite stereotype.”

RockingHorseGuy June 22, 2011 at 11:06 am

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And the fact that she might have made a good lawyer is supposed to make us respect her?

David Bishop June 20, 2011 at 1:49 pm

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Pretty sure the French saved us once ^^

danybhoy June 20, 2011 at 5:28 pm

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They did help us during the revolutionary war vs. Britain. My guess is that they were helping us more because they hated the Brits then they liked us.

KimmyQueen June 21, 2011 at 7:23 am

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It is true and also if I am not mistaken the most needed help came rather late but overall it came. However the US have more than paid the French back. Tourist money, TX (and other states) essentially saved French wine industry in the 1800′s if i am not mistaken, and of course the big one saved the French from Hitler and the Nazis. So we good with France. We don’t owe France a lick.

David Bishop June 21, 2011 at 11:36 am

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Completely agree KQ, just thought I would mention something from a satirical point of view.

FormerlyDeanH June 23, 2011 at 8:22 pm

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They did it for the reason you mentioned but also liked the idea of expanding into Canada as well, hence Quebec and their frequent attempts to secede. The likely expansion of the Empire of Britons frightened Spain as well, which, considering their involvement in the initial acquisitions seems quite reasonable.

France and Spain are large countries. The English had a better handle on throwing their limited weight around than either one and even both of them. Frankly, it is my opinion that Canada and the U.S. should overthrow the entire northern hemisphere and the adjacent 20 degrees into the southern hemisphere.

North America is a huge continent with much foreboding and treacherous frontier type, practically untouched tracts of enormous size. Lots of resources of the sort humans can utilize to live and improve living for centuries, so long as the greedy Soros types can be eliminated or at least forced into decay. Is that bad of me hoping for the demise of dickwadage of his ilk? Nah, it ain’t.

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 5:54 am

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She also has a condescending tone to every comment, refuses to accept documantation or substantiation of OUR posts, because they aren’t acceptable sources for her. SHe is not a pleasant person, and she can never just say let’s agree to disagree on that one. She HAS to be RIGHT and she HAS to have the last word.

Example:Olivia June 19, 2011 at 12:12 pm
Poorly Rated. Do you Like or Dislike? 0 6
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

I spent a lot of time with the German and the Dutch Armies. I wouldn’t say they were pinky in the air kind of men either. They were a lot of fun to hang around with. The French were total and complete sh*theads. I have never seen a group of more arrogant effeminate soldiers, in my life. If it wasn’t for the nukes, I don’t think France could beat Rhode Island in a war.

**************************
Translation: “I’ve never been within 100 miles of a real live French soldier. But my buddies on this board are so gullible, they’ll believe any nonsense I claim about the French army, especially if it fits their favorite stereotype.”

***********************
Deb, if you can’t see why I dismissed the above anti-French tripe as ignorant bigotry (rather than politely agreeing to disagree), then you’re not being very honest.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe in spouting bogus racial or ethnic stereotypes, and I will speak up about it if I see anyone else doing it. That, in my opinion, is what decent people do. But, if standing up and objecting to bigotry offends you, feel free to skip over my posts.

Deb June 22, 2011 at 6:56 am

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Your “translation” was the sticking point. First, I read and write English very well, thank you, and do not need a traslation of every post listed. 2) the poster related his personal experience and opinion. Then you came along and “translated” his opinion as being the rant of someone who had never had first hand experience, which according to the post he had. He is entitled to his evaluation of the people with whom he spent time, even if you don’t like the way it turns out. READ the post before you go jumping into the middle of everything!

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 12:05 pm

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Then you came along and “translated” his opinion as being the rant of someone who had never had first hand experience, which according to the post he had. He is entitled to his evaluation of the people with whom he spent time, even if you don’t like the way it turns out. READ the post before you go jumping into the middle of everything!
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I repeat: whenever I see blatant bigotry (and his comment WAS bigotry, no matter how eager you are to call it an “evaluation”), I’m going to challenge it.

I know bigotry has gotten more socially acceptable lately (especially when aimed at certain ethnic groups whom it’s popular to disdain), but it’s just as immoral today as it was seventy years ago. And, sorry, but I have no intention of looking the other way when I see others resorting to it.

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 6:25 am

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I don’t remember “relentlessly questioning assertions”, but I do remember that one of the first things she did was call us racists. That was back on May 17th, the story about Cynthia McKinney. She called us racists and then finished with a great big smiley face. I guess that was to make us racists feel better.

*************************
Well, I actually dug back to find the quote you’re referring to, Barb, because I did NOT remember ever calling you a racist. And guess what: It wasn’t as you described it. For one thing, I was referring to those who had made ugly personal remarks about McKinney (yes, Perlcat, it would be correct to say that such remarks were ad hominem attacks), rather than addressing the incident in question. For another, you weren’t among those who had made the ugly remarks. And, for still another, at no time did I call them all (much less you) racists.

Just to jog your memory, here is my post in question (including emoticon, which wasn’t meant to be a big smile, but a tongue hanging out to suggest irritation or disgust. I typed it as a colon and a P. Try it yourself, and you’ll see.):

Interesting—-not one of the comments here (so far) has addressed what McKinney said, or why. Just a bunch of (in some cases racist) personal insults aimed at the woman.
Nah, there’s no racism on the right. Liberals are the “real” racists, for pointing it out, right? (This would be the cue for you to wax ecstatic about how much you LOVE and respect Herman Cain, Thomas Sowell, Alan Keyes, Condoleezza Rice, Mike Steele, Frances Rice and Clarence Thomas…..) :P

Okay, that was my post. Now let’s look at a few of the posts I was referring to:

__She’s right where she needs to be. Over there with another total wack job.
Now if someone could either joe-kennedy or ted-kennedy her.

__Her hairdo always looks like she walked right into a massive elephant fart. Maybe that explains the wild eyes as well.

__Didn’t I see someone that looked like her on Sheriff Joe’s website?

Wild crazy eyes, wild crazy hair, looked like she’d smoked about a pound of pot, then flew to Tehran to curse terrorists without using an airplane?

__Bitch be racist n sheeet!

__Here’s the dialog:
“I’m gunna McKinney yo ass”
“Say what?”
“I’m gunna beat yo wiff the ugly stick, take an egg beater to yo hair, suck out yo brain, and dress yo like Moochell! You no, McKinney yo ass!”

Okay, Deb? Now, explain to me why I was out of line for describing the above posts as “a bunch of (in some cases racist) personal insults.”

Deb June 22, 2011 at 7:02 am

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How did I get pulled into this confrontation? I never said anything about racism, and I didn’t write any of the “personal insults.” Ms. McKinney does not need you to defend her. She is a grown woman, and can speak for herself, and accept the consequences of what she says or does as an adult. Right or wrong, many political figures are subjected to various levels of insults (like the left referring to Bush the younger as Hitler.) It unfortuanately comes with the job. You are not their Mother, and do not need to defend them. If the best someone can come up with is an insult, consider the source and move on. And your beating of this dead horse just reinforces what I said. You can’t just let it go, you HAVE to be RIGHT!

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 12:20 pm

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You are not their Mother, and do not need to defend them. If the best someone can come up with is an insult, consider the source and move on. And your beating of this dead horse just reinforces what I said. You can’t just let it go, you HAVE to be RIGHT!
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Deb, your little homily here might be more impressive if you were actually taking your own advice. Why did YOU not “consider the source and move on,” if you think that’s such a grand idea? ;)

Sorry, but I AM right on this one, and have no intention of backing down.

Randome-11 June 4, 2011 at 10:45 am

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Henry Kissinger, “Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.”

Sad no one heard a fist hit that scumbag in the face, hard.

KimmyQueen June 21, 2011 at 1:49 pm

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Editor can you please find Olivia’s first few posts perhaps?

I don’t back down to morons that get in my face in real life. Morons online though I have no patience for. My time online is mine to do what I want and to have mindless discussion with mindless useless people does not attract me at all.

KimmyQueen June 21, 2011 at 5:14 pm

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I believe that Barb is correct. I would like Editor or Administrator to find her first posts. Her first posts were insulting to us all (or at least the conservative members of the site). So Ms. Oblivia is not innocent and she is certainly in no place to state that she has the right to push back when she has been prodding at us from the get go. One can disagree without being disagreable. If anything had she disagreed intelligently without the name calling, I would have respected her and even if she bored me I would at least recognize she is trying to state her case respectfully. She started it, she cannot be mad that people are given her the same treatment she gave everyone else.

editor June 21, 2011 at 5:36 pm

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We have no way of doing that other than searching the site for “Olivia”. She has left so many comments – 99% of which I don’t read – that the search results would be ten feet long. They don’t come up chronologically, so what you ask if damn near impossible.

perlcat June 21, 2011 at 6:00 pm

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They may not come back chronologically, but they *do* come back unintelligibly.

Call it a poor man’s version of waterboarding.

Alien June 21, 2011 at 6:04 pm

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Seriously? I think perlcat or I could tease it out with some sql

perlcat June 21, 2011 at 6:25 pm

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I’ve learned to keep my big mouth shut at times like this. ;-)

KimmyQueen June 21, 2011 at 6:08 pm

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I tried. You are right… So I went by Barb’s memory:

Olivia May 17, 2011 at 11:07 am
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Interesting—-not one of the comments here (so far) has addressed what McKinney said, or why. Just a bunch of (in some cases racist) personal insults aimed at the woman.
Nah, there’s no racism on the right. Liberals are the “real” racists, for pointing it out, right? (This would be the cue for you to wax ecstatic about how much you LOVE and respect Herman Cain, Thomas Sowell, Alan Keyes, Condoleezza Rice, Mike Steele, Frances Rice and Clarence Thomas…..)

I remember that this was one of her first posts ever… So yeah what was that being all saintly and whatever?

This was her response to sablegsd who answered her in kind:
Olivia May 17, 2011 at 2:36 pm
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I’m not a racist, I dislike her because she is a brain dead lunatic.
What did she say that warranted a serious comment?
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Why, I don’t know. But the writer of this blurb seemed to think she warranted a lot of comments, since this story led today. Why don’t you ask him?
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Sane people knew before zero got in what he was, she is racist for voting for him just because he is mulatto.

No, “sane people” know that:

1) it’s racist to make generalizations about an entire race (assuming the only reason they supported Obama was his race), excepting only those who voted as you did.

2) the term “mulatto” is archaic, and has been out of general use (except for racists and people living in a time warp) for generations. There’s a reason for that.

3) referring to the president of the United States as “zero” (carefully leaving it uncapitalized) is a childish and silly way to criticize him.

4) it was this writer, not Cynthia McKinney, who (what’s that term you far righters love to use?) “played the race card”—-note his final sentence.

And you bought right into it, didn’t you?

Yes Olivia was all lilly white when she came to the site and we jsut attacked her for no reason…

perlcat June 21, 2011 at 6:39 pm

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The first one I remember was on this article:

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/staged-photo-what-the-hell-were-those-people-watching-so-intently

and this text is hardly a good way to introduce your ideas to a group of conservatives: “By the way, what are Republicans doing to create jobs now? Last time I looked, they were too busy trying to control women’s uteruses, and give corporate handouts, to worry about the average working person.”

If you want a positive reaction out of people in order to build a helpful dialogue, ad hominem attacks are probably not the way to go. Just sayin’. Maybe she can get people to agree with her on the “be cruel to be kind” plan, but not most of the people who post here.

If she was interested in a dialogue, she’d have stopped at the first sentence, and would have gotten answers. However, she’s never been interested in a dialogue — just arguments for arguments’ sake.

That is also the article where I eventually gave up trying to reason with her — there just didn’t seem to be a point. So far, a month and a half later, I’d have to say that my opinion hasn’t changed.

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 5:37 am

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http://www.ihatethemedia.com/staged-photo-what-the-hell-were-those-people-watching-so-intently

and this text is hardly a good way to introduce your ideas to a group of conservatives: “By the way, what are Republicans doing to create jobs now? Last time I looked, they were too busy trying to control women’s uteruses, and give corporate handouts, to worry about the average working person.”

If you want a positive reaction out of people in order to build a helpful dialogue, ad hominem attacks are probably not the way to go.
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“Ad hominem attack” is an extremely trendy term among the far right these days, to the point that it’s often used incorrectly. Which, of course, is the case here.

The term “ad hominem” refers to attacking the person rather than the issue, Perlcat. I didn’t do that—-I made an observation about the Republican party’s actions, and how they don’t seem to be consistent with their stated priorities.

I’m also rather amused at your insinuation that I’m singlehandedly preventing meaningful dialogue here. I guess you haven’t noticed the numerous ad hominem attacks (real ones!) aimed at me here: that I’m amoral, for example; that I’m incompetent at my job, that I kill elderly patients, that I’m collecting welfare, that I want to keep poor people helpless and dependent and that I hate Jews. Those bogus attacks don’t seem to bother you in the least.

Is that because you’re not used to people challenging right wing ideas, and therefore get offended when it happens here? Is it because you have very selective tunnel vision? Or is it because you want to hold me to a higher standard than you would demand of your peers on this board?

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 5:43 am

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If anything had she disagreed intelligently without the name calling, I would have respected her and even if she bored me I would at least recognize she is trying to state her case respectfully. She started it, she cannot be mad that people are given her the same treatment she gave everyone else.
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Uh…..Kimmy? I’m not the one who’s complaining here. The only time I’ve mentioned being treated rudely is when someone else is crying about MY attitude here.

But I’m willing to meet you halfway on this. Just tell me what names I’ve called you (providing a link or some context to jog my memory, if possible), and we’ll talk about it. Oddly enough, I can’t remember any of this name calling you’re referring to.

KimmyQueen June 22, 2011 at 8:15 am

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Olivia stop being a stalker. It is not a good look. I am not talking to you. I am talking about you, because some people seem to have a skewed idealistic view about you that I needed to squash. You are wasting your time replying to me. I do not read your posts. You are a stalker. Stop stalking me… again… it is not a good look.

Olivia June 22, 2011 at 11:37 am

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Uh…..Kimmy? I’m not the one who’s complaining here. The only time I’ve mentioned being treated rudely is when someone else is crying about MY attitude here.

But I’m willing to meet you halfway on this. Just tell me what names I’ve called you (providing a link or some context to jog my memory, if possible), and we’ll talk about it. Oddly enough, I can’t remember any of this name calling you’re referring to.
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Olivia stop being a stalker. It is not a good look. I am not talking to you. I am talking about you, because some people seem to have a skewed idealistic view about you that I needed to squash
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Translation: “That’s because I’m making it all up. How can I play victim if I don’t accuse someone of attacking me?”

Relax, Kimmy—-I’m no “stalker,” nor is this all about you. I’m just not one to let untruths sit up on a board unchallenged.

KimmyQueen June 22, 2011 at 2:08 pm

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Olivia just can’t help it. She is a stalker that always have to have the last word. Okay Olivia please have the last word. Thanks for proving me right. What a pathetic little person. I have to wonder when will her stalker contract let up?

Olivia June 23, 2011 at 6:16 am

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Olivia just can’t help it. She is a stalker that always have to have the last word. Okay Olivia please have the last word. Thanks for proving me right. What a pathetic little person. I have to wonder when will her stalker contract let up?

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Translation: “I just can’t help myself. I want SO badly to get Olivia’s attention, that I keep making snide remarks about her here (while reminding everyone that I’m not speaking to her) and then accusing her of “stalking” when she responds.”

Classic Palin maneuver: make a hostile or divisive or ridiculously untrue statement in order to get the public’s attention; then feign victimhood when the public reacts in a negative way.

Grow up, Kimmy. If you don’t want me to respond, stop trying so hard to engage me.

Kelleycat8 June 16, 2012 at 2:59 am

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France to this day doesn’t appreciate what our service men and women gave up for there country the lives lost the injured and the ones still missing in the defense of there country against Hitler. Some one needs to write a book about what France would be like today if we had not helped there country against Hitler!

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