Neil Cavuto’s tax reform plan: What about the 51% who pay no taxes?

by editor on August 12, 2011

Neil Cavuto treated Democrat Rep. Steve Cohen like a bulldog treats a bone. He latched onto the Congressman with his teeth and wouldn’t let go, arguing that the intelligent way to raise revenue is to squeeze a few tax dollars out of the millions of Americans who currently get a free ride.

Mediaite has the details:

Rep. Cohen came on the program and argued that a tax reform bill without revenue increases was near worthless, and railing against the “intransigence” of the Tea Party. Cavuto wasn’t buying any of that, however, telling him that when he “said shared sacrifice… none of you ever mention the 51% of Americans that don’t pay taxes at all.” Rep. Cohen argued that that’s “not the issue” and, anyway, “most of those people don’t have any money” to pay taxes with, and argument Cavuto described as a “red herring” since there were far more people not paying taxes than small corporations getting breaks. “Before you start demanding that some people pay more, maybe get everyone to put skin in the game?” he offered.

Cavuto continued his bulldog impression:

“You keep hitting up the same group and you leave more than half the people in this country out of it entirely.” Rep. Cohen argued that it made no sense to make people who had little money pay taxes. “You go where the money is,” he argued, asking facetiously if, instead of banks, they should go after pawn shops. “It’s not balanced when you leave a whole group out,” Cavuto concluded, exasperatedly. “It drives me nuts.”

As Mrs Editor said, “We need a flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage no matter how much they make.”

Let’s put your hands together for the lovely and effervescent Mrs Editor.

Source: Mediaite.com

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218 Comments on "Neil Cavuto’s tax reform plan: What about the 51% who pay no taxes?"

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poppajoe49
Member

Rose, it doesn’t matter, I could explain my entire situation and it wouldn’t matter to her, so I just kept it simple enough for her to understand. It isn’t working.
The fact is that I have not only the responsibility of running a business, but since my wife has a regular job at a non-profit, and is unable to take time off during the day, or change her schedule, the care of her father falls into my lap as well. He’s 79 and has dementia. He’s not real bad, but if I don’t wake him up, make his breakfast, give him his meds, etc, he will sleep all day, not eat, and not take his meds (he forgets he has to take them). I also have to take him to his Dr appointments and get him to shower and change his clothes.
My wife thinks that because I’m self employed, I have all the time in the world to do her errands as well. As a result, I am tied to the house until about 10:30 every morning, which is why it is good that I have employees that are motivated to keep their jobs! They know that if I get to the job and don’t see sufficient progress, they will be gone. They have seen me do this to former employees. Then, in the case of weather, if we can’t work, I’m home most of the day, unless I have estimates to do or a small indoor job that I can do on my own.

sa_rose
Member

I am sure you love your Father and would do anything for him, but my heart truly aches for you. It is soooo difficult to care for someone who can’t even remember where they are most of the time. Safety is a constant issue, as well as any attendant medical problems. You have my prayers and support. If you don’t believe in prayer, see it as sending good thoughts your way. 🙂

poppajoe49
Member

Thanks Rose, and yes, I do believe in prayers.

Sidekick
Member

FWIW, Poppa, you’ve won the debate without even having to get into your family responsibilities. Olivia has no rational justification for why her notions about politics and the economy are not only time-tested failures but the antithesis of liberty, individualism, and free enterprise. She is morally and intellectually bankrupt and she is the last person you have to explain yourself to under any circumstance. Her criticizing your way of life further illustrates her inability to advance her own arguments constructively.

poppajoe49
Member

Thanks Kick. Sometimes when dealing with her and her kind, you get frustrated. I know I shouldn’t let her get to me, but when you present completely logical and supported arguments, it is maddening when she just refuses to get it.

KimmyQueen
Guest

You are a good person and someone like Olivia will never change that. She is underserving of your time. That is why I follow RHG’s mantra thumb down and move on.

poppajoe49
Member

Thanks Kimmy. I have tried hard to do just that, but I have a hard time ignoring blatant stupidity.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I have no patience for fools so I understand.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Hey, sometimes she even gets me fired up. Usually, I see a response to her that FORCES me to go look at the insanity that she’s posted. I just can’t help myself.

Olivia
Member

Kick, just follow my lead. When she does the “my boy” thing, refer to her as “my b*tch”. It has worked wonderfully. She barely replys to me anymore!
*********************
My boy, the reason I don’t reply to you is that you have nothing but childish insults to offer. If you ever actually came up with a serious question or argument (no matter how hackneyed), I would probably respond.

“Multitasking” again on the job, I see? 😉

drb
Member

Racist/sexist bigot

Olivia
Member

Racist/sexist bigot
**********************
Were you just muttering to yourself, or was this said in response to another post?

KimmyQueen
Guest

Got a Turd!!!!!

drb
Member

You know it was for you due to your post using “my boy” yet again.

poppajoe49
Member

Racist/sexist bigot
**********************
Were you just muttering to yourself, or was this said in response to another post?
——————-
No, it was just a list of words in the dictionary that we would expect to find your picture next to.

poppajoe49
Member

the reason I don’t reply to you is that………..

Translation
“You have so soundly kicked my ass, and refuse to be bullied by me, that it doesn’t do my ego any good to respond.”

My Bitch!

sa_rose
Member

What time zone are you in? No matter which one on the continental US, it is not work hours for someone with a contracting type business (at least that is what I understood his job to be.) Talk about childish insults!

Olivia
Member

What time zone are you in? No matter which one on the continental US, it is not work hours for someone with a contracting type business (at least that is what I understood his job to be.) Talk about childish insults!
******************
Make all the excuses you want for him, Rose. Successful business owners don’t spend hours and hours each day playing on the internet. They’re too busy working hard to keep their businesses successful.

At least, that’s true of every business owner I know. But, then again, maybe they have higher standards than you two.

sa_rose
Member

To assume his business is not successful is so full of crap it is unbelieveable. And if he has time to play on the internet (after caring for his elderly father, all the household chores and running his business) then I say more power to him. Clearly he is an intelligent, well ordered person with good multitasking skills. Jealous?

poppajoe49
Member

Rose, what really gets me is it’s been over 24 hours since I’ve seen a post from the troll, and the only one she posts is an attack! Clearly, she should have been able to see the other post right below where she posted, where I explained about my father in law, but true to form, she ignores what doesn’t fit her agenda, which just makes her look all that much the bigger fool!
We don’t even have to try to make her look stupid, she does it herself!

trackback
poppajoe49
Member

This is a bad discussion! There will never be agreement on it. Too many possibilities for abuse by the tax men!
I am against the national sales tax for a couple of reasons. The ones pushing it claim that the price of goods will fall because the businesses that supply us with them will not be paying income tax. I have a hard time believing that.
If the national sales tax is enacted, what happens to the state sales taxes?
The proposed 22% national sales tax would likely put such a hardship on the poor and elderly, that they will barely be able to afford food.
Many of my customers are senior citizens. I have had to keep my prices lower than I would otherwise charge because I cater to seniors, most of who are not rich as many would have you believe. Many of them would have to forego necessary repairs to their homes that are safety concerns, because of the cost of materials putting the repairs out of their reach.

Sidekick
Member

Poppa, I read Boortz’s Fair Tax book a few years ago and I seem to recall that in order to prevent your concern about the poor from happening, each household would receive a rebate monthly. I don’t remember the details but he does have an answer.

I like the national sales tax proposal provided it is a replacement to the IRS and not an addition. It would ensure everyone pays into the federal coffers. The 22% figure is the embedded tax already in goods and services. Without the current tax code that 22% goes away and would be replaced by the new sales tax. So the cost of something remains the same. Imagine a life free of the IRS. Never happen though. Too many special interests and the government gets to know all about us via our returns. I don’t think it will give up that power.

poppajoe49
Member

And there is the rub.
It will never happen because there are too many people that won’t let it.
The flat tax will work out better because the special interests will allow it to.
The monthly rebate thing is a problem for me because it is yet another part of our lives that will be administered by the government. It will also be too easy for them to not send out the checks because the government needs the money more than the people!

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

The tax code will never be rectified to a reasonable method or rate. The sales tax idea could work if allowed. It would by design eliminate the IRS. The required accounting would be so simple and collections eased so drastically that the number of people and the tech required to accomplish the work would be barely into the thousands of personnel and a well maintained secure network of computers.

Addressing the state sales taxes would be entirely up to each state, as it should be. Most of the issues that have become labyrinthine over the decades were designed by the globalist cabal to grow governments and dependent citizenry. Our Constitution was designed to make states independent of one another. Many issues were to be settled by people voting with there feet, as in relocating to a locale more to their liking. When the whole of the country is ruled under one all encompassing order, which is what is happening with the 14th amendment rendering number 10 moot, states lose the right to self government.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Zo’s take on the income tax: http://www.pjtv.com/s/GQZTMMY

Robert
Guest

A wise man once said:
“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.”
— Abraham Lincoln
Obama didn’t get this memo I guess since he excels at attacking success and class hatred.

Olivia
Member

A wise man once said:
“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.”
— Abraham Lincoln
Obama didn’t get this memo I guess since he excels at attacking success and class hatred.
************************
I’m sure Obama’s seen it umpteen times, since it’s a favorite right wing mantra and has been parroted all over the internet ad infinitum.

I’m sure he’s also seen your Limbaughesque attempt to confuse the concepts of income bracket and social class many times, too. God knows I have.

The problem with your overworked mantra is that it’s conveniently vague, and makes many blanket assumptions. Such stereotypes have been used many times by aristocrats back in the Old Country, and by aristocrat wannabes in this one, as a way of keeping power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy, and out of the hands of the lower half of the social strata.

There are certain physiological and safety needs that MUST be met, if a person is ever to be productive or self-sufficient. But it seems to be very popular of late to pretend that these needs don’t really exist, or that they can be magically met simply by affecting a can-do attitude, and a willingness to work hard.

Which is flat out untrue—as untrue as your claim that that mantra originated with Abraham Lincoln. What is it about the far right, that causes so many to embrace lies and inaccuracies?

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln/prosperity.asp

Sidekick
Member

I think the quote is prescient regardless of who said it. Ben Franklin talked about thrift and hard work too. Sadly, among the progressives those notions seem to be scorned.

Olivia
Member

I think the quote is prescient regardless of who said it. Ben Franklin talked about thrift and hard work. Sadly, among the progressives those notions seem to be scorned.
*******************
Still parroting stereotypes, I see (as well as trendy far right wing buzzwords).

No, we liberals believe in thrift and hard work just as much as anyone else. But we’re realistic enough to understand, too, that thrift and hard work alone aren’t always enough to pull a person out of poverty.

That’s been true throughout history, of course, but the far right likes to pretend it isn’t, because that gives them an excuse to avoid taking social responsibility.

It’s very telling that they’re still parroting these mantras, and still trying to duck social responsibility, even though the chasm between the very rich and the very poor is wider today than it’s been for decades, and even though they KNOW there still aren’t enough jobs to go around.

Sidekick
Member

Show me where I’m wrong you dumb cow! Your cliches bore me. No you liberals don’t believe in thrift you believe in the welfare state and government dependence the statistics going back to the 1960s bear that out.

“I have begun everything with the idea that I could succeed, and I never had much patience for the multitudes of people who are always ready to explain why one cannot succeed.” -Booker T. Washington, Up from Slavery

drb
Member

If I listened to everyone who told me that I can’t, I’d be in a hell of fix right now!

Sidekick
Member

And that’s the problem. To many people use straw men arguments to explain away their failures. Then those same people repeatedly allege that the “rich” don’t do enough. Excuse me, but where beyond my (substantial) VOLUNTARY charitable contributions and paying the required taxes am I obligated to do more when so many choose to do nothing? The second part to that is then I have to listen to ass hats like Olivia tell me that me and people like me duck responsibility. Now that is certainly an inverted worldview. The generational welfare recipient gets a pass for doing nothing and I am condemned for not doing enough! That makes sense.

Olivia
Member

And that’s the problem. To many people use straw men arguments to explain away their failures. Then those same people repeatedly allege that the “rich” don’t do enough. Excuse me, but where beyond my (substantial) VOLUNTARY charitable contributions and paying the required taxes am I obligated to do more when so many choose to do nothing?
****************
Where’s your evidence that “so many choose to do nothing”?

On the one hand, you rabid Obamaphobes b*tch up a storm about the lack of new job creation….on the other, you b*tch up a storm that the poor aren’t going out and getting jobs. So which is it, Kick? Are there enough jobs with decent pay to go around, or aren’t there? You can’t have it both ways.

Sidekick
Member

Where’s your evidence that “so many choose to do nothing”?

http://www.google.com/search?q=generational+welfare+statistics&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

There is lots of evidence, I leave it to you to read for yourself.

On the one hand, you rabid Obamaphobes b*tch up a storm about the lack of new job creation….on the other, you b*tch up a storm that the poor aren’t going out and getting jobs. So which is it, Kick? Are there enough jobs with decent pay to go around, or aren’t there? You can’t have it both ways.

No we “bitch up a storm” that the current administration has created a toxic job creating environment via overregulation, Obamacare related uncertainties regarding the cost of adding employees, and the draining of capital from the private sector to the public sector.

The lifelong worker, through no fault of his own, who has lost a job and is actively looking for work and receiving unemployment insurance-which he has paid into has nothing in common with the multi-generational welfare recipients who are a drain on society. Again apples and oranges but facts never stop you from writing your little progressive fantasies.

drb
Member

Sorry Kick, that was meant to be a thumb up.

Olivia
Member

Where’s your evidence that “so many choose to do nothing”?
***************************
http://www.google.com/search?q=generational+welfare+statistics&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

There is lots of evidence, I leave it to you to read for yourself.
**********************
Nothing doing, my boy. This is just a Google search using the word “welfare.” In no way does that constitute evidence that all or most welfare recipients don’t want to work.

Now, I asked for evidence, and I expect evidence. If you’re too lazy or ignorant to provide it, why not just be a man and say so? Why do you try to BS your way out of it by producing a meaningless link, and then demanding that I do your legwork for you?

<<On the one hand, you rabid Obamaphobes b*tch up a storm about the lack of new job creation….on the other, you b*tch up a storm that the poor aren’t going out and getting jobs. So which is it, Kick? Are there enough jobs with decent pay to go around, or aren’t there? You can’t have it both ways.
****************************
No we “bitch up a storm” that the current administration has created a toxic job creating environment via overregulation, Obamacare related uncertainties regarding the cost of adding employees, and the draining of capital from the private sector to the public sector.
**********************
Hogwash. Those are just talking points fed you by the Koch Brothers and their megarich cronies. Business and industry MUST be regulated, or they're prone to compromise workplace safety, consumer safety and environmental safety in their never-ending quest for quick profits. Health care for employees is a NECESSITY, not a frill. You teabaggers scream bloody murder at the thought of the government providing health care; therefore it MUST default onto businesses to provide it. That's the choice. Pretending that people don't need health care if they just keep a positive attitude is an old wives' tale, Kick. What's more, a work force that's walking around with undiagnosed and untreated medical/psychiatric disorders is NOT an efficient or productive workforce. (In many cases, they're not even going to be employable.)
**********************

The lifelong worker, through no fault of his own, who has lost a job and is actively looking for work and receiving unemployment insurance-which he has paid into has nothing in common with the multi-generational welfare recipients who are a drain on society.
*********************
You're stereotyping again, Kick. I've known some lazy slackers who collect unemployment; I've also known some welfare recipients who WANT a job. Until you stop clinging to those bogus stereotypes fed to you by the right wing media, there's no way you can look at this issue accurately and honestly.
***********************
Again apples and oranges but facts never stop you from writing your little progressive fantasies.
************************
Trust a rabid teabagger to think that refusal to embrace bigoted stereotypes is "fantasy."

You know what the difference between you and a Jim Crow era racist is, Kick? Absolutely nothing…..except that the Jim Crow era racist was honest enough to admit to his bigotry. Otherwise, you have the same tunnel vision, the same tendency to believe everything you hear from the far right, and the same tendency to pigeonhole people without bothering to learn anything about their individual circumstances.

(No, I'm not saying you're a racist. I don't know whether you are or not. But I am saying that you're a bigot….and obviously very proud of it.)

poppajoe49
Member

You are so completely stupid my bitch!
Once again, the only citation you offer is the link from Sidekick’s original post and your demented ramblings!
You just keep making it easier for us to prove you wrong.

Sidekick
Member

Nothing doing, my boy. This is just a Google search using the word “welfare.” In no way does that constitute evidence that all or most welfare recipients don’t want to work.

You have that backwards, moron. You write uncited shit constantly. I provide evidence. That link provides you literally hundreds of links to generational welfare. You are so intellectually dishonest that you can not face a direct refutation with any integrity. You truly are disgusting.

“Hogwash. Those are just talking points fed you by the Koch Brothers and their megarich cronies. Business and industry MUST be regulated, or they’re prone to compromise workplace safety, consumer safety and environmental safety in their never-ending quest for quick profits. Health care for employees is a NECESSITY, not a frill. You teabaggers scream bloody murder at the thought of the government providing health care; therefore it MUST default onto businesses to provide it. That’s the choice. Pretending that people don’t need health care if they just keep a positive attitude is an old wives’ tale, Kick. What’s more, a work force that’s walking around with undiagnosed and untreated medical/psychiatric disorders is NOT an efficient or productive workforce. (In many cases, they’re not even going to be employable.)”

Prove all of it you cliche ridden screw. Where is your evidence of any of that?

“You’re stereotyping again, Kick. I’ve known some lazy slackers who collect unemployment; I’ve also known some welfare recipients who WANT a job. Until you stop clinging to those bogus stereotypes fed to you by the right wing media, there’s no way you can look at this issue accurately and honestly.”

Show me where I’m wrong. Again, cliches get you nowhere.

” You know what the difference between you and a Jim Crow era racist is, Kick? Absolutely nothing…..except that the Jim Crow era racist was honest enough to admit to his bigotry. Otherwise, you have the same tunnel vision, the same tendency to believe everything you hear from the far right, and the same tendency to pigeonhole people without bothering to learn anything about their individual circumstances.

(No, I’m not saying you’re a racist. I don’t know whether you are or not. But I am saying that you’re a bigot….and obviously very proud of it.)”

And there it is ladies and gentlemen. Olivia is intellectually and morally bankrupt and so here comes the charges of racism and bigotry because her argument can not carry a thimble full of water.

Olivia, I’m running out of new descriptors for you. Anyone else?

poppajoe49
Member

Just “my bitch”. 😉

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: Where’s your evidence that “so many choose to do nothing”?

C’mon to Chicago, you know, where Obama cut his teeth raising the poor to prosperity….

Oh, I’m sorry I had a “Liberal Mantra Moment.”

Actually he did almost nothing.

Olivia
Member

Slowlivia: Where’s your evidence that “so many choose to do nothing”?

C’mon to Chicago, you know, where Obama cut his teeth raising the poor to prosperity….

Oh, I’m sorry I had a “Liberal Mantra Moment.”

Actually he did almost nothing.
********************
What, specifically, did you expect Obama to do, all by himself, to “rais(e) the poor to prosperity” in Chicago?

Olivia
Member

You have that backwards, moron. You write uncited shit constantly. I provide evidence. That link provides you literally hundreds of links to generational welfare.
*******************
But no evidence at all that those on “generational welfare” (which was reformed 15 years ago, Einstein!) don’t want to work.

No evidence, either, that yanking government benefits away will result in (to quote Old Man Potter) “a thrifty working class.” All you provided was a vague Google search. And, if that’s the only response you can give when challenged to back up your stereotypes with facts, you’ve just lost your whole case.

(Except with other gullible bigots, who swallowed the same stereotypes from AM talk radio, that is.)

poppajoe49
Member

comment image

2

Sidekick
Member

But no evidence at all that those on “generational welfare” (which was reformed 15 years ago, Einstein!) don’t want to work.
No evidence, either, that yanking government benefits away will result in (to quote Old Man Potter) “a thrifty working class.” All you provided was a vague Google search. And, if that’s the only response you can give when challenged to back up
your stereotypes with facts, you’ve just lost your whole case.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You still fail to see how this works. My “vague” Google search, if you were to open it, had hundreds if not thousands of results for generational welfare. Now, if you want to deny that it does exist that is the fantasy world you have chosen, I suppose. By the way, even if it were a “vague” Google search, who the EF are you to challenge anyone on providing support for anything posted here? My, Lord! The hypocrisy is astounding.

Again, you make no point other than to say I am a bigot because I resent the fact that there is an entire class of people who are doing little or nothing because they are subsidized by tax payers. So I will ask again for the third time: How did the tax payer become indebted to the tax recipient? Further, the political party that you support traffics in this condition for votes by promising even more largesse from the treasury (Obamacare). If my wanting to determine how I want my charity dollars are spent and I would like to buy my family what it needs rather than being forced by the tax code to buy other families’ stuff (when they are capable to do it themselves) is a problem for you…..I am fine with that because I really don’t give a rat’s ass about you or your warped worldview. So ride off on your broom and sell your BS to someone who doesn’t know what a dishonest buffoon you are.

Olivia
Member

You still fail to see how this works. My “vague” Google search, if you were to open it, had hundreds if not thousands of results for generational welfare
*****************
But I didn’t ask for “hundreds of (Google) results for generational welfare,” Kick. I asked you to back up your assertion that those who are currently on TANF (the 1996 replacement for welfare) and other government programs for the poor don’t want to work.

You failed to do it. Of course you failed—because you’re parroting an old right wing stereotype that (like the old right wing stereotypes about black people being lazy and shiftless and hopelessly addicted to watermelon) was designed purely to pump up the self esteem of its adherents.

Next?

Sidekick
Member

Olivia August 14, 2011 at 8:25 am
Poorly Rated. Do you Like or Dislike? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

I think the quote is prescient regardless of who said it. Ben Franklin talked about thrift and hard work. Sadly, among the progressives those notions seem to be scorned.
*******************
Still parroting stereotypes, I see (as well as trendy far right wing buzzwords).

No, we liberals believe in thrift and hard work just as much as anyone else. But we’re realistic enough to understand, too, that thrift and hard work alone aren’t always enough to pull a person out of poverty.

That’s been true throughout history, of course, but the far right likes to pretend it isn’t, because that gives them an excuse to avoid taking social responsibility.

It’s very telling that they’re still parroting these mantras, and still trying to duck social responsibility, even though the chasm between the very rich and the very poor is wider today than it’s been for decades, and even though they KNOW there still aren’t enough jobs to go around.

Olivia, this is where the tangent we are on began. Note the unsubstantiated bs claims you spout. Shocking that you demand evidence from others (but we have determined that you are hypocrite), which I provide in my Google link as more than enough links exist to satisfy any rational reader and it ABSOLUTELY rebukes your denial of generational welfare and its pathology (in other words people learn helplessness when they adapt to subsistence (and fraud).

Now for the fourth time….please explain how tax payers are indebted to the tax recipient? What did the tax payer do to become indebted to the welfare recipient? I am waiting for a reasoned discussion on the origin of debt. Without YOU have no argument and no business making demands on anyone.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Finally got a turd. I’ve been looking for it all morning.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Another turd!

sa_rose
Member

The welfare state has been alive and well for DECADES. Are you going to tell me that during that entire time, there were NO decent paying jobs available? COME OOONNNNNN! I have no problems with those who cannot help themselves receiving help from whereever they can get it.. But “cannot” and “will not” are a far cry from one another!

Olivia
Member

The welfare state has been alive and well for DECADES. Are you going to tell me that during that entire time, there were NO decent paying jobs available? COME OOONNNNNN! I have no problems with those who cannot help themselves receiving help from whereever they can get it.. But “cannot” and “will not” are a far cry from one another!
***********************
No, I didn’t claim that there were NO decent paying jobs available. But not all or most of them were available to poor rural and/or inner city urban welfare recipients.
Even today, there seems to be a trend to hire only people who already have jobs. Let’s not forget, either, that, to a family in serious financial stress, finding the money for full time child care, or commuting to a job several or many miles a day, can be an unsurmountable difficulty.
http://nelp.3cdn.net/145c46b62b7c5ad382_c3m6bloik.pdf

You yourself claim to be on disability, Rose. Now, bleeding heart liberal that I am, I believe what you say and don’t have a problem with you collecting from the government. But look at your situation from the perspective you just described. You’re obviously capable of sitting at the computer and posting, and you have good communication skills. So what’s keeping YOU from finding gainful employment?

Bottom line: it’s easy to judge someone else’s work ethic, if you don’t have the opportunity (or interest) to look closely at his/her situation. It’s a lot harder, though, when you cancel your self-granted privilege to make blind assumptions about individuals, instead of actually looking at what obstacles are keeping them from success.

sa_rose
Member

My statement that welfare was alive and well over decades pointed to the fact that even when jobs were abundanat, and did not require much speialized training, there were those who COULD have and Should have been working instead of depending on the governmen to pay their way. I don’t think anyone would disagree that the last 3 years have been tough going for EVERYONE except perhaps the super rich. Jobs are down, benefits are being cut (after the fact) more training is required for even basic jobs. I am not in a position to work right now, but I did work for nearly 40 years. And if I could find a job that suited my disability, I would go back to work in a heartbeat. And again, leave me out of your arguments. Sidekick even stated that the person who worked most of their lives and lost their jobs through no fault of their own (like we are seeing now) absolutely deserves some assistance. And iven at my very low income level, I give a few dollars to charity, or put in time toard charitable works.

Olivia
Member

Excuse me, but where beyond my (substantial) VOLUNTARY charitable contributions and paying the required taxes am I obligated to do more when so many choose to do nothing? The second part to that is then I have to listen to ass hats like Olivia tell me that me and people like me duck responsibility. Now that is certainly an inverted worldview. The generational welfare recipient gets a pass for doing nothing and I am condemned for not doing enough! That makes sense.
**************
Can you name one single wealthy industrialized nation today, that does NOT have social programs in place for the poor and disabled, Kick?

Can you name one single wealthy industrialized nation that’s currently prospering, that has NO social programs in place for the poor and vulnerable? Just one?

Didn’t think so. Your notions about doing away with social programs, my boy, are simply pie-in-the-sky dreams that you’ve been fed by the rich and powerful, who wish to get richer and more powerful at the expense of the rest of us.

Sidekick
Member

“Didn’t think so. Your notions about doing away with social programs, my boy, are simply pie-in-the-sky dreams that you’ve been fed by the rich and powerful, who wish to get richer and more powerful at the expense of the rest of us.”

First of all you sanctimonious little screw, I’m not your boy. Second of all if you had an ounce of integrity and any ability understand what is written, then you would have not made that asinine comment. No-one, not one poster here, has advocated eliminating safety nets. Especially those paid into by actual workers. What you have read and failed to understand is that there is fraud, waste and abuse problems and a certain class of politician who trade on those unfortunate realities. Are you truly that stupid? No need to answer, we know you are THAT stupid. If you continue to distort what is written here by me and others, then you will be further marginalized as a kook.

You still have not explained why one segment of society is in debt to another segment of society solely on the basis of the second segment being unwilling to take responsibility for itself. You need to understand the origin of debt before you get to spout your bullshit. So, I will make it simple for your very small mind: How did the tax payer class become indebted to the generational tax recipient class? That is an uncomplicated question. Try to keep it succinct.

I await your well thought out answer. Cliches will get you nowhere.

poppajoe49
Member

Kick, just follow my lead. When she does the “my boy” thing, refer to her as “my bitch”. It has worked wonderfully. She barely replys to me anymore!

Olivia
Member

First of all you sanctimonious little screw, I’m not your boy.
***************
Stop referring to me in derogatory and insulting ways, and maybe I’ll consider skipping the “my boys,” Kick. The ball is in your court.
**************
Second of all if you had an ounce of integrity and any ability understand what is written, then you would have not made that asinine comment. No-one, not one poster here, has advocated eliminating safety nets.
*********************
Of course not. It’s just that YOU (armed with a boatload of blind prejudices fed to you by the far right wing media) want to be able to dictate which demographic groups get them, and which don’t….without bothering to look at individual circumstances.
*********************
What you have read and failed to understand is that there is fraud, waste and abuse problems and a certain class of politician who trade on those unfortunate realities.
*******************
Wrong. Never have I stated or implied that fraud and waste don’t exist, Kick. Fraud and waste are part of the human condition, and exist in EVERY group effort, government sponsored or otherwise. What I’m NOT willing to do, though, is swallow your blanket stereotypes (or, rather, the blanket stereotypes that you’ve been fed by your media heroes).
*****************
Are you truly that stupid? No need to answer, we know you are THAT stupid.
*****************
No, my boy, I’m not stupid, whatever else I am. If I haven’t learned anything else in my 30-odd years of nursing (and I’ve actually learned a great deal more), I’ve learned that one can seldom know what’s going on with a patient just by glancing at him/her. And the day I learned that was the day I took a big step forward in understanding critical thinking.

It works the same when evaluating society’s problems, such as poverty and unemployment. It makes no more sense to make snap assumptions about some total stranger collecting TANF, than it would for me to dismiss some total stranger in the ER waiting room as a “drug seeker,” without first bothering to examine him and learn something about his medical history.
*********************
If you continue to distort what is written here by me and others, then you will be further marginalized as a kook.
*******************
Why? You just distorted what I said, by accusing me to be too “stupid” to understand that fraud and abuse exist. Why are you holding me to standards that you refuse to meet yourself?
*****************
You still have not explained why one (ever shrinking) segment of society is in debt to another (growing) segment of society solely on the basis of the second segment being unwilling to take responsibility for itself.
******************
As I told you before: show me some solid evidence (NOT just a google list and “do your own research”) that TANF and food stamp recipients are “unwilling” to work, and we’ll talk about it. So far, all you’ve done is parrot popular stereotypes.
*******************
You need to understand the origin of debt before you get to spout your bullshit. So, I will make it simple for your very small mind: How did the tax payer class become indebted to the generational tax recipient class?
*******************
My boy, you’re using the term “class” incorrectly. I know it’s currently popular to use it as a synonym for “tax bracket,” but that’s incorrect, as it (falsely) implies that the divisions between employed and unemployed-and-collecting-government-benefits are rigid and difficult to surmount. In other words, yet one more example of right wing propaganda.

Now that we’ve got that settled: I always have to chuckle at angry teabaggers who try to pretend that federal taxation is some brand new phenomenon that they’ve never heard of. Let’s can the affectations, shall we? Taxation has been a fact of life for many more years than either of us have lived on this Earth, and we’ve ALL benefited from it. Why does the government tax? To keep our society in decent working order, that’s why. Why do some pay into it, while others don’t? Because demanding payment from those who can’t afford it isn’t likely to achieve our goal—i.e., to keep our society in decent working order.

The rest of your post is just the usual childish insults, so I’ve omitted them.

Sidekick
Member

Done. She is way off of her meds this morning. I can not wait for her understanding of the origin of debt. Or will that go unanswered and I will be accused of parroting Rush Limbaugh, the far right media, and now the Koch Brothers?

Sidekick
Member

I knew that a well though out answer was beyond you. I told you that cliches would get you nowhere. I am awaiting a discussion of the origin of debt. Unless you can explain that the rest of what you say is empty.

By the way, You are the one that does no research. Period. Spoon feeding you is tedious and boring. I will continue to call out your crap because you have no reasoning ability. So, again, how did the tax payer class (and it is a class of people made up of roughly 52% of the population) become indebted to the tax recipient class (48% of the population)?

If the term “class” so troubles you then you can substitute the words “cohort”, “flock”, or “herd”. Semantics doesn’t change a thing.

poppajoe49
Member

First of all you sanctimonious little screw, I’m not your boy.
***************
Stop referring to me in derogatory and insulting ways, and maybe I’ll consider skipping the “my boys,” Kick. The ball is in your court.
—————————————–

Translation:
“I started this by calling you and others “my boy”, but now that you have retaliated, I will challenge you to stop doing what I started, even though I have no intention of stopping my childish actions.
maybe I’ll consider skipping the “my boys,” is proof that I will keep doing it as long as it suits me.”

Sidekick
Member

“You still have not explained why one segment of society is in debt to another segment of society solely on the basis of the second segment being unwilling to take responsibility for itself. You need to understand the origin of debt before you get to spout your bullshit. So, I will make it simple for your very small mind: How did the tax payer class become indebted to the generational tax recipient class? That is an uncomplicated question. Try to keep it succinct.

I await your well thought out answer. Cliches will get you nowhere.”

Again-nothing from Olivia (after four separate requests) when thought is required. This from the same progressive robot who asks us to provide evidence, which we do routinely.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

You gotta admit, Sidekick. That’s a really tough question. Maybe she’s thinking about it.

KimmyQueen
Guest

RHG said: “You gotta admit, Sidekick. That’s a really tough question. Maybe she’s thinking about it.”

hahahhaa…. you were joking right?

😀

I don’t think it is fair to accuse Olivia of being someone that “thinks”.

Sidekick
Member

“You gotta admit, Sidekick. That’s a really tough question. Maybe she’s thinking about it.”

You think so? Maybe.

poppajoe49
Member

She’s busy looking for a pithy response on the Huffpo website for her to copy and paste here.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I think Poppa’s got it right. Again.

David Bishop
Member

China.

Can you name two WEALTHY industrialized nations that have social programs?

Olivia
Member

Show me where I’m wrong you dumb cow!
*******************
Nothing doing, you gullible bigot. YOU made the assertion; therefore it’s incumbent on YOU to back it up with those statistics you claim to be familiar with…and then show how they could possibly reflect my personal values, or those of any other liberal.

But I’m hugely enjoying your angry use of bigoted stereotypes to make a point, and assuming that they serve just as well as facts and logic. Could you possibly do a more effective job of showcasing the dumbing down of the fair right? 😀

Sidekick
Member

Olivia, You are insane. I am responding to your post full of unsubstantiated bullshit. I ask you to prove what you said and then YOU demand I prove your bullshit. You don’t seem to know how this works. You make a claim and back it up you don’t tell the person who is calling you out for non-cited accusations to do it.

Sidekick
Member

To avoid confusion on your part, here is your uncited post:

i think the quote is prescient regardless of who said it. Ben Franklin talked about thrift and hard work. Sadly, among the progressives those notions seem to be scorned.
*******************
Still parroting stereotypes, I see (as well as trendy far right wing buzzwords).

No, we liberals believe in thrift and hard work just as much as anyone else. But we’re realistic enough to understand, too, that thrift and hard work alone aren’t always enough to pull a person out of poverty.

That’s been true throughout history, of course, but the far right likes to pretend it isn’t, because that gives them an excuse to avoid taking social responsibility.

It’s very telling that they’re still parroting these mantras, and still trying to duck social responsibility, even though the chasm between the very rich and the very poor is wider today than it’s been for decades, and even though they KNOW there still aren’t enough jobs to go around.

Poorly Rated. Do you Like or Dislike? 0  3

REPLY TO THIS SPECIFIC COMMENT

poppajoe49
Member

To avoid confusion on your part, here is your uncited post:

And she disappears into obscurity.

KimmyQueen
Guest

THIRD!!!!

I am with RHG Sidekick thumb down and move on. It gets easier every day.

Sidekick
Member

Yeah, ignorance is curable but stupid is forever.

Olivia
Member

I knew that a well though out answer was beyond you. I told you that cliches would get you nowhere. I am awaiting a discussion of the origin of debt. Unless you can explain that the rest of what you say is empty.
*****************
Could you be more specific? I don’t know what you’re looking for, you see. If you’re waiting for me to admit that debt occurs when one spends more than one is taking in, fine. I was objecting to Bush’s reckless squandering (and starting a war while lowering taxes) while you far righters were silently supporting him on it. What’s more, I’ll agree that Obama’s spending contributed to the deficit. But the only alternative would have been to do nothing, and watch our economy slide into freefall.

Is that what you wanted from me, Kick? If not, I’m afraid you’re going to have to be a lot more specific in your request. I have neither time nor patience for coy little games this morning.

poppajoe49
Member

comment image

sa_rose
Member

I have an idea. Why don’t YOU provide citations that back YOUR theory that everyone who has been on welfare for 3 or more generations WANT to work, have taken advantage of training provided by their state workforce, and have routinely attempted (actually gotten dressed and gone and APPLIED) for at least 2 jobs a month during the time they have received benefits. Remember that none of us has ever said the elderly, the ill or disabled should be cut off, nor those who are truly in temporary need of assistance due to job loss, injury (but not permanent disability,)or some freak act of Nature like a flood, hurricane, tornado, etc. Several people have given you references for THEIR stand. Let’s see your references for YOU stand. References must be objecive and cannot be opinion pieces from Left Wing rags.

sa_rose
Member

But you are all to ready to assume that Liberal talking points reflect each of OUR personal values, The left says we all listen to and follow Rush and Beck, so it must be true. The left says we want to throw Grandama out of her section 8 housing and cut off her food stamps and monthly disability, so it must be true. Certainly the right is probably Southern, is uneducated, inherently stupid, and incapable fo making resonable deductions, so of course that is how we all are, right? Go look in the mirror missy, if you want to see bigoted stereotypes used as fact and logic.

Sidekick
Member

BTW, what is with your politicizing single words? That is weird.

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “No, we liberals believe in thrift and hard work just as much as anyone else. But we’re realistic enough to understand, too, that thrift and hard work alone aren’t always enough to pull a person out of poverty.”

You do? Is that why we have 5th generation welfare families in Chicago and we rebuild the projects every 20 years?

Jebus, I’m a patient person, but how long does this “Progressive Process” of yours take?

BTW, you might want to have a doctor check out those bruisies on your back from patting yourself so hard and so long.

Olivia
Member

Slowlivia: “No, we liberals believe in thrift and hard work just as much as anyone else. But we’re realistic enough to understand, too, that thrift and hard work alone aren’t always enough to pull a person out of poverty.”
*********************************
You do? Is that why we have 5th generation welfare families in Chicago and we rebuild the projects every 20 years?
********************************
Don’t look now, but most of those Chicago “projects” are gone, Beanhead. (Good name, by the way.) They were razed, just as they’ve been razed in many other cities around the world, because the people who run those cities learned something: you can’t warehouse the poor in cinderblock high rises, neglect ordinary building maintenance and ignore criminal activity, and still expect those warehouses to remain in good condition for long.

I guess you weren’t aware, either, that welfare was reformed 15 years ago, and that its replacement—TANF—-carries a lifetime limit of five years.

Now, tell me about all the jobs you know of in the inner city, that are available to the poor there, and pay a living wage. And don’t start yapping about jobs you know of that are 40 miles from the city, unless you know for a fact that they’re available by (affordable) public transportation, and pay more than it would cost to put one’s kids in day care.

I’ll wait…….

Olivia
Member

Jebus, I’m a patient person, but how long does this “Progressive Process” of yours take?
*****************
First of all, let’s get the terminology straight. I’ve never used the term “progressive” in reference to my political views. I’m a liberal, neither more nor less, and I don’t need people like you putting right wing doublespeak terms in my mouth. So why do you put quotes around that term, as if you were quoting me?

Second, poverty in the U.S. is a complex problem, made even more complex by the practice of pretending it doesn’t exist, as the Republicans have tried to do for generations.

Solving it will require studying, identifying (and controlling) contributing factors, and identifying (and/or creating) OPPORTUNITIES for people to break out what is often a lifelong pattern. How patient YOU are, or how anxious YOU are to stop having to face it, is irrelevant to the issue.

Poverty is like an infection. It’s debilitating; it’s communicable; it tends to happen more to certain demographic groups; and it only gets worse if you try to ignore its existence, or deny any form of treatment to those affected by it.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Two more turds. To quote the King of Soul, “I feel GOOD!”

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “Now, tell me about all the jobs you know of in the inner city, that are available to the poor there, and pay a living wage. And don’t start yapping about jobs you know of that are 40 miles from the city, unless you know for a fact that they’re available by (affordable) public transportation, and pay more than it would cost to put one’s kids in day care.”

Well… It finally speaks! In the usual Liberal doublespeak and platitudes, but that’s to be expected.

You are one of the most laughably obtuse Libs I have ever run across… and you can take that as a compliment. As a resident of “The Peoples Republic of Chicago” I have spoken to many, and as they remain in charge of Chicago politics, it will remain a center of poverty, racial unrest and a voting block for the Democratic Party.

Yes, we have torn down the high rise slums, and replaced them with “community groups” where “section 8 housing” is the same game, different name. A guy named Tony Rezko was big in the game… he’s in jail now for various crimes…. he was also BHO’s finance chairman at one time, but that’s another topic from another thread which you have conveniently avoided. You have also ignored the Woods Group and the Woodlawn Organization…. Tremendous failures w/ BHO written all over them.

Inner city jobs? Plenty have tried, the unions have kept them at bay, and the shocking lack of education from the (Liberal controlled) Chicago Public Schools (Superintendent Arnie Duncan slithered to Washington w/BHO) leaves business with a less than acceptable potential workforce. It is one which has been socially promoted by a Liberal agenda which graduates high school students without the ability to read and write. It is one which has been told, “there are no jobs, so quit asking and take the check.”

Naturally, it’s society’s fault-not the parent’s-that this has occured over and over, generation after generation. Naturally, it’s society’s fault that Chicago’s children are having children at a younger and younger age, gaining public assistance and the cycle begins again.

A living wage? What IS a living wage? If you begin pounding out children at 16 years of age, how much thought have you given as to how much you need to earn to support them? Transportation is quite a moot point when you don’t have the education to read a train schedule, or the ability to make simple self-supporting decisions about getting up for work day after day.

These are not lab rats, Slowlivia. These are human beings who have gotten themseves into a vicious cycle, and someone must illustrate to them the hard facts about what it is going to take to break that cycle and accept personal responsibility for their future. My heart breaks for them on a regular basis, but there’s not much that can be done as long as there are uneducated “excuse machines” such as yourself on the political Left who perpetuate the myths and lies of social engineering.

You are that person.

You are a “closet hero” who wants to help them to continue to exist within the framework of your “oh, so generous” help, neither seeing, nor caring, that what your kind has done, and continues to do, does nothing to help them take charge of their own lives and become true individuals.

Personal Responsibility.

That’s something YOU clearly don’t have and are not willing to accept or promote in mouthing the idiocy of “I’m here to help” which perpetuates the poverty and illiteracy which grips our nation’s poor.

Olivia
Member

These are not lab rats, Slowlivia. These are human beings who have gotten themseves into a vicious cycle, and someone must illustrate to them the hard facts about what it is going to take to break that cycle and accept personal responsibility for their future.
************************
Ah, yes: that oh-so-popular mantra of the far right. “Personal responsibility.”

The one thing you righties never seem to get is that it takes more than a pep talk and a can-do attitude to take “PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.” It also takes skills. And money. And good solid health. None of which you like to think about, of course—-because that might mean having to get up off your own fat butts and accept some SOCIETAL responsibility.

It’s kind of like trying to run a household, in which each family member does his own thing, and takes care of his own belongings as he sees fit….but nothing else. Sure, it sounds great on paper….but who’s going to see to the parts of the house that ALL use? Who’s going to repair the roof when it leaks, for example? Who’s going to vacuum the living room? Who’s going to shovel the snow, or take out the garbage, or help Junior understand fractions when he has a D- average in math? Who’s going to fix Grandma a lunch tray and wash her clothes, when she’s recovering from a broken hip and can’t go up and down stairs?

Someone with a lousy sense of community responsibility would say, “Not my problem. I fix my own meals and take care of my own stuff, so why should I give a crap about anything else?” But that doesn’t get the job done, does it? Nor does it ensure that the house is going to stay clean, or in decent working order.

Are you getting the picture yet, Beanhead?

Now, you seem to be making excuses for the lack of jobs in Chicago—-but it amounts to the same thing. You’ve just admitted that (for whatever reason) there aren’t enough jobs to go around. And, let’s face it, when there aren’t any jobs, all the “PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY” in the world isn’t going to magically create them.

Sidekick
Member

Jack Meoff August 15, 2011 at 1:07 am
Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

Have a nice tea party when you bible thumpin GOPs screw Granma on medicare & cut her social security that she paid for. Start a few more wars & pay for them instead. You got more than a few screws loose if you think killing camel jokeys is protecting our freedom & fighting for Jesus. Yeah Obama sucks because he is weak & giving the store away to the rich bankers & corporations that send jobs overseas. You listen to Rush & fox and think your getting the truth, but your blindly swallowing the right propaganda, hook line, & sinker. F–king Obama is giving you everything you want– no taxes, cutting social security, medicare, keeping the wars going, killing more GI’s , putting lots of people in jail.. Your hero Reagan Tripled the deficit & you should find out for yourself what Bush did… Your too stupid to know your stupid.

Here is someone who you have a lot in common with. Why don’t you strike up a conversation with Mr. Meoff? He comes across as equally knowledgeable.

sa_rose
Member

Every individual or group that ha been successful in low income,areas has pushed for personal responsibility, hard work, adn an attitude that says “I am GOING to do this,.” Instead of “I can’t do this. The government owes it tome to pay me out f this situation.” They are kept in schools that last year round, are open from 7a-5p (at least) and DEMAND parental involvement and participation. Since that approach seems to work, why would you object to it?.

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “Poverty is like an infection. It’s debilitating; it’s communicable; it tends to happen more to certain demographic groups; and it only gets worse if you try to ignore its existence, or deny any form of treatment to those affected by it.”

I had to go after this horse’s ass doublespeak in particular.

Spell out the “demographic group” for us, oh wise one! Say what you mean in english, instead of attempting to couch it in poorly written junior high prose. What group are you saying is more “organically” prone to the disease of poverty, and why do you,in your infinite wisdom, suppose they have not developed an immunity over time?

Who exactly do you accuse of “ignoring” this organic disease your troubled mind has conjured, and what is the cure you so obviously have been withholding?

Sidekick
Member

“Poverty is like an infection. It’s debilitating; it’s communicable; it tends to happen more to certain demographic groups; and it only gets worse if you try to ignore its existence, or deny any form of treatment to those affected by it.”

That my friends is pure progressive bigotry on Olivia’s part. Either that or she has fully mapped the human genome and found the poverty gene in only certain homo sapiens.

poppajoe49
Member

That my friends is pure progressive bigotry on Olivia’s part. Either that or she has fully mapped the human genome and found the poverty gene in only certain homo sapiens.

Well, she does seem to think it only exists in black, inner city people, she never uses any other examples.

sa_rose
Member

Snap!

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “Someone with a lousy sense of community responsibility would say, “Not my problem. I fix my own meals and take care of my own stuff, so why should I give a crap about anything else?” But that doesn’t get the job done, does it? Nor does it ensure that the house is going to stay clean, or in decent working order. ”

Did I say you were obtuse? I think I meant UberObtuse, or UltraObtuse, or even New and Improved (with stain fighters) Obtuse.

Do you ever go back and look at the crap you write before posting? Do you ever ask yourself, “Let’s see…did I write anything so utterly stupid that it can be used against me?” I’ll help. The answer is YES, almost everything. You speak in talking points, platitudes and flashcards. There is never an answer, only a victim statement, which is why you are taken to school and made to look the fool over and over again.

A lousy sense of community responsibility? You fool, I as an individual contribute regularly and heavily to my community. I work hard, pay my taxes, function within the law, continuously educate myself, done military service, pay attention to local, state and federal politics and contribute regularly to charities I deem worthy. Who the (expletive deleted) are you to come in here with some candy-assed broadbrushed statement to say that anyone else isn’t doing enough because that’s what Princess Slowlivia has determined to be so?

Personal Responsibility. Mantra? No! Fact of life.

The poorest among us is responsible for his and her own actions and integrity. In order to create a job, you first need to secure a worker or workforce which is capable of accepting the responsibility to do it. It is flaming idiots such as yourself who will not admit (or are too stupid to know) that it is the instillation of ethics and responsibility which far precludes a search for work.

It is you who refuses to work this problem to the lowest common denominator. Success is not a matter of desire, it is a matter of practical application. You cannot ask industry to produce in an area where the workforce is CLEARLY unproductive, any more than you can tell a student, “Well, you don’t meet the requirements to graduate, but we don’t want to hurt your self-esteem, so you will.”

Yet, that is what our Liberal education system has done. They have produced a clearly uneducated and unmotivated workforce, and blame industry for not making use of them. In your pretty little picture of the family where each is not “pulling their weight” for the household, it is the parent of the poor, the Liberal education system and “excuse makers” such as yourself which have failed miserably and for far too long a time to contribute in a positive manner to the community.

David Bishop
Member

I haven’t seen you around here much (but I’ve been rather busy lately), but I wish you good welcome Sir!

beanhead54
Guest

DB:”I wish you good welcome Sir!”

Thank you, my friend. I already feel quite at home.

As you can see, I have followed the lengthy trail of thumbs down and discovered the hovel of your village idiot, and a fine specimen of an idiot she is, I might add! Y’all must be button-busting proud to have in your possession such a rabidly indoctrinated, functionally illiterate Lefty stooge who isn’t already institutionalized by court order, or a high-ranking member of their inner circle. Quite the catch, and kudos to management for cleaning the cage on a regular basis.

Anyhoo, thanks again for the welcome, DB and I’m off to THWACK the idiot once more for saying something monsterously stupid in the post following this one.

Olivia
Member

Do you ever go back and look at the crap you write before posting? Do you ever ask yourself, “Let’s see…did I write anything so utterly stupid that it can be used against me?” I’ll help. The answer is YES, almost everything. You speak in talking points, platitudes and flashcards.
********************
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think you could possibly get to the point, instead of just spewing these empty insults? Or at least come up with some that are a little less trite and childish?
*******************
There is never an answer, only a victim statement (snip
*******************
Wrong. I’m not the one who’s crying like a little spoiled toddler about having to pay taxes, and help take care of the country I live in. That would be YOU.
************************
A lousy sense of community responsibility? You fool, I as an individual contribute regularly and heavily to my community. I work hard
******************
as do most of us, including many of the poor people whom you scorn…..
******************
pay my taxes,
******************
and endlessly b*tch and whine about it….
******************
function within the law
******************
as do many of the poor people you scorn….
******************
continuously educate myself
******************
translation: “read lots of right wing opinion pieces and fancy myself well educated thereby”
******************
done military service
******************
which is a career OPTION, not a step toward canonization…..
******************
pay attention to local, state and federal politics
******************
which is not necessarily about “personal responsibility,” especially when the political viewpoint you embrace does nothing but scorn the poor and powerless
******************
and contribute regularly to charities I deem worthy
******************
which is about personal choice and getting tax writeoffs for yourself, not necessarily about taking societal responsibility.
*********************
Who the (expletive deleted) are you to come in here with some candy-assed broadbrushed statement to say that anyone else isn’t doing enough because that’s what Princess Slowlivia has determined to be so?
*********************
I’M not the one who determined it, Beanhead, nor (as so many teabaggers love to pretend) is Obama. It’s as much a part of your responsibility, as a resident of the U.S., as cleaning up after yourself in the bathroom is a part of your responsibility at home.

I know it’s very trendy to go around acting outraged about having to pay taxes, and seeing part of those taxes go to provide services to the disadvantages (instead of the uber-wealthy the far right kowtows to), but that’s nothing new. It’s been a feature of every modern civilized society, and (contrary to right wing wishful thinking) has actually helped many pull themselves out of poverty, by providing affordable education, job skills and health care.

Off to work now.

David Bishop
Member

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beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “Nothing, Zip, Zero, Zilch, Nada.”

Why, I do believe the Village Idiot has attempted to assasinate my character with a squirt gun!

HEY!! Who left a squirt gun laying around where the Idiot could get her hands on it? Don’t you know that she could fool around and drown herself with that thing?

THEN who would we have to mess with all day?

PS: Nice try, Slowlivia… If we happened to be in Junior High. Why don’t you just go ahead and start a rumor that I have e-cooties, and maybe they’ll make me leave. Worth a try, because this sophomoric post of yours proves that you are obviously frightened by facts, and clearly grasping at the thinnest of straws.

Wanna’ play rough? I ain’t even warmed-up yet.

poppajoe49
Member

Bean, I do believe that the troll has found the ring, and is now degenerating into a Gollum-like character.
Be careful, the hovel is beginning to become acrid with the aroma of dying flesh.

sa_rose
Member

And here we go again. Limbaugh, Limbaugh, Limbaugh. Any way you can work it into a sentence. I think you have a crush on Rush!

sa_rose
Member

Here we go again. Limbaugh, Limbaugh, Limbaugh. Any way you can work it into a sentence. I think you have a crush on Rush! You are certainly obsessed with him.

danybhoy
Member

A couple of thing…

1.If our current tax system is kept, welfare benefits need to be taxed. EBT cards, food stamps, wics, all of it. Tax it, if Social Security is taxed after it has already been extracted from you in the form of a tax, why not tax welfare recipients who pay NOTHING?

2.Get rid of the entire current tax system, go flat or fair. Fair would help return billions, if not trillions of dollars that are kept off-shore to escape the IRS.

3.Get rid of all sorts of spending & agencies that cannot meet a constitutional test. The 10th Amendment people.

brianu
Member

A national sales tax replaces all current taxes (Medicare, Social Security, death tax, INCOME TAX) so that you keep 100% of your paycheck. Goods and services will no longer be taxed during manufacture or transport so the price will drop. For example, a $10 item today has 22% taxes embedded in the final cost. If you take that away, the actual price is $7.80. You add a 23% tax to that and the price goes up to $9.59. This tax only applies to brand new items that you get from a store. The stuff you buy on craigslist would still be tax free. For a more complete read, look at “The Fair Tax Book” by Neal Boortz.

MightyManfred
Member

NOT a national sales tax – that would inevitably be added to the current income tax. A FLAT tax of 8% with no deductions, etc. that cannot be changed with less than 2/3rds of both houses.

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

The national sales tax approach would get money from pimps, drug dealers and every other under the radar type simply by them making purchases at regular stores, which they do. Flat rate income tax won’t change their contributions one iota.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I am feeling a national sales tax ONLY approach.

deepthinker
Member

A flat tax or a national sales tax with nothing exempted. If you buy something you pay the tax. You dont buy any thing you pay nothing. I can hear the CPAs, the realators, and tax lawyers all crying now.

KimmyQueen
Guest

One OR the other right? Because I am not good with both. However overall I am down with national sales tax over flat tax. That is even better. It allows for people to feel free to get what they want knowing fully well what they are buying and so on, without being worried about their paychecks being curtailed in the front or back end.

Jim Stewart
Member

I think it’s time we get a pic of Mrs Editor.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Can’t do that, boss. There’d be liberal asses in public places throwing paint at her, like PETA does with women who wear fur. Liberals have a problem with good people.

KimmyQueen
Guest

“Liberals have a problem with good people.” You got that right.

Jim Stewart
Member

OK – a pic from the neck down, in a nice huggy t-shirt and shorts?

RockingHorseGuy
Member

There ya go. Run that by her, Ed.

drb
Member

There you go being a….uh, man, again.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I’m sick. I need help.

drb
Member

Sick and in need of help? Nah, don’t think so. 😉

poppajoe49
Member

LOL RHG, I thought that was a reply to Oblivious, and you left out the

“Translation:”

drb
Member

Easy mistake to make!

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Ok, I’m not sick. I don’t need help. Actually, I didn’t expect anyone to catch the reference to an old pervert on a TV show from the late 80’s called NightStand. It wasn’t a very popular show.

Olivia
Member

Can’t do that, boss. There’d be liberal asses in public places throwing paint at her, like PETA does with women who wear fur. Liberals have a problem with good people.
****************
As far as I know, I’m the only liberal here, and I’ve never thrown paint at anyone in my life.

You just can’t handle viewing the world without the help of those silly right wing stereotypes, can you?

David Bishop
Member

First $30,000 in income is untaxable. 20% after. Prosper. No loopholes, no deductions, nothing. Simplest tax code ever.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I would say that if someone makes less than $20,000 a year they can get pay 1-5% of their income. It is not a big deal. Over $20 K I will say 5%-15% flat tax is good enough. I cannot think of anything else that needs to be taxed in this world. I think taxation is a work of evil just as entitlements programs that run amok. Things like welfare should have a timetable of 6 months to a year and the person should be ENCOURAGED to do something about their lives and they can only renew twice more. When they get where they need to be they should be perhaps taxed in addition (the only extra tax I believe in) where they are asked to pay 20-50% back to the government/tax payers (depending on how much more they make).

David Bishop
Member

Unemployment insurance. Not welfare. Something you pay into, and it’s rates are according to your age, work experience, etc; just like car accident insurance.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Am okay with that as long as it is not taxed.

Olivia
Member

First $30,000 in income is untaxable. 20% after. Prosper. No loopholes, no deductions, nothing. Simplest tax code ever.
******************
So, if a person making $29,500 per year gets a 2% merit raise, bringing total income over $30,000…..s/he immediately forfeits $6,000 to taxes because of a rigid tax code?

That doesn’t make an awful lot of sense, David. In fact, it would destroy motivation to work harder and earn more, among those who were already financially struggling. It would also provide employers with an excuse NOT to give raises or bonuses, under the pretext of looking out for the employee’s best interests.

But, hey, it would certainly be a bonanza for those who already have more money than they know what to do with, wouldn’t it?

drb
Member

Your math sucks. $29,500 plus 2% merit raise equals $30,090. $30,090-30,000 that is not taxable= $90. $90 x 20% equals $18 which I believe is affordable.

Olivia
Member

Your math sucks. $29,500 plus 2% merit raise equals $30,090. $30,090-30,000 that is not taxable= $90. $90 x 20% equals $18 which I believe is affordable.
*******************
Okay, so what you’re saying is that, NO MATTER HOW MUCH a person makes, the first $30,000 would not be taxed at all.

I’m having a hard time figuring out how that would bring enough revenue in to make a dent in that deficit, plus maintain the country in good working order. Or were you thinking of also jacking up sales takes, to make up the difference?

drb
Member

Okay, so what you’re saying is that, NO MATTER HOW MUCH a person makes, the first $30,000 would not be taxed at all.

I’m having a hard time figuring out how that would bring enough revenue in to make a dent in that deficit, plus maintain the country in good working order

Of course your having a hard time figuring it out. Apparently you can’t do basic math.

drb
Member

Fweetness! How good to see you again. Tea?

sa_rose
Member

Don’t go to her hospital and get any medication that required a dose adjustment! Lord knows what you would get!

Olivia
Member

Don’t go to her hospital and get any medication that required a dose adjustment! Lord knows what you would get!
***************************
Translation: “I can’t come up with any ways of refuting what she says, so I think I’ll just make childish attacks on her professional competence.”

Classic (and silly) right wing attempt at manipulation.

Sidekick
Member

Don’t go to her hospital and get any medication that required a dose adjustment! Lord knows what you would get!
***************************
Translation: “I can’t come up with any ways of refuting what she says, so I think I’ll just make childish attacks on her professional competence.”

Classic (and silly) right wing attempt at manipulation.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wrong as usual. It was an attack on your math skills based on your inability to comprehend a every simple income tax proposal. Nice batch of worn cliches there. You really knocked your position right out of the park!

poppajoe49
Member

LOL Kick!
How’s that for being sympatico?

Olivia
Member

Wrong as usual. It was an attack on your math skills based on your inability to comprehend a every simple income tax proposal.
*****************
I did the math correctly, Kick. I’d misunderstood a key premise, that the first $30,000 is untaxed REGARDLESS OF TOTAL INCOME. I had interpreted David’s description to mean that, once a person’s total income went above $30,000, s/he would be paying that flat 20% on all income.

It’s not that far fetched as an interpretation, actually. But I understand how important it is for you to discredit me, even if it means gross overreaction to a simple misunderstanding.

drb
Member

So again your analysis/interpretation of what people post here continues to be flawed.

poppajoe49
Member

I’d misunderstood a key premise

No kidding? Don’t you get tired of “misunderstanding a key premise”?

sa_rose
Member

And you misunderstood because you DID NOT READ THE ENTIRE POST. You were too busy running ahead to “prove” how unreasonable his stand was, without even understandoing WHAT his stand was.

Sidekick
Member

“I did the math correctly, Kick. I’d misunderstood a key premise, that the first $30,000 is untaxed REGARDLESS OF TOTAL INCOME. I had interpreted David’s description to mean that, once a person’s total income went above $30,000, s/he would be paying that flat 20% on all income. ”

Funny, the rest of us had no trouble understanding “the premise”.

“But I understand how important it is for you to discredit me, even if it means gross overreaction to a simple misunderstanding.”

You do an able job discrediting yourself, Olivia. You don’t need my help.

By the way, you have 30 minutes to edit comments so you had time to realize and fix your mistake and that would have been good but instead you just went along on your merry smug way to more ridicule.

poppajoe49
Member

Translation:
“They have soundly kicked my ass with my brainless attempt at math, so there was no reason for Rose to do it again. She made the comparison as to how my poor math skills could translate to my job, and I’m devastated that I could be such an idiot, so I’ll lash out at her with yet another nonsensical accusation that has nothing to do with what she said.”

sa_rose
Member

Like when you accused me of not really being a nurse? Well bless yor heart!

drb
Member

Or like when she accuses all of us of listening to and parroting Rush.

poppajoe49
Member

While she’s linking to HuffPo!

Olivia
Member

I’m having a hard time figuring out how that would bring enough revenue in to make a dent in that deficit, plus maintain the country in good working order

Of course your having a hard time figuring it out. Apparently you can’t do basic math.
*************************
Still trying to get as much mileage as possible out of a simple misunderstanding, I see.

Here’s food for thought. I know it’s very popular right now to parrot that (not quite true) claim that 50% of Americans pay no taxes. Obviously, most of you righties think that’s scandalous, and want to do something about it. But here’s the thing: If you look at census bureau statistics, you’ll see that, in 2006 (the most recent year I could find, which of course is pre-recession), the median individual income in the U.S. was only $26,036. http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new02_001.htm
That means that, under this flat tax plan, OVER 50% of Americans would not be paying any income tax.

Of course, if the tax rates pertained to total HOUSEHOLD income, it would be a different matter. But that also suggests that those households with more than one income (including those with teenagers or unmarried adult children) would often be charged higher tax rates than those with only one employed family member.

Olivia
Member

Here’s food for thought. I know it’s very popular right now to parrot that (not quite true) claim that 50% of Americans pay no taxes. Obviously, most of you righties think that’s scandalous, and want to do something about it. But here’s the thing: If you look at census bureau statistics, you’ll see that, in 2006 (the most recent year I could find, which of course is pre-recession), the median individual income in the U.S. was only $26,036. http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new02_001.htm
That means that, under this flat tax plan, OVER 50% of Americans would not be paying any income tax.
*********************
SO typical. The usual suspects come barging in here to taunt me about misunderstanding a proposed tax plan. (With, of course, the inevitable Poopajoe chasing after them and biting at ankles, while he’s supposedly “running a business” from home.)

But then, when I ask a simple question ABOUT that tax plan….all of a sudden, everyone runs and hides. 😉

Unfortunately, their right wing media heroes, the ones who regularly pump up their self esteem and feed them platitudes, have taught them only to attack, not to defend. So, apparently, none of them REALLY know how this plan addresses the tax situation, or is likely to fix the deficit.

I guess you’ll all just have to wait until those media heroes tell you how you feel about the question, and what to respond…..

Sidekick
Member

Most conservatives who I read and listen to advocate for a flat tax or a national sales tax in lieu of the graduated bracket system. Naturally both of those proposals would bring virtually everybody into the revenue stream. More of the “same ole”is just further social engineering through the tax code. Something you progressives excel at as your ilk demagogues any attempt to overhaul the IRS and the entire federal revenue collection system.

sa_rose
Member

I could live with a certain amount of tax bracketing, so that those who earn less maoy a similar proportion of their money as the more wealthy. I want all the legal loopholes and gameplaying which hides much of the income of the very very wealthy to stop. They DO need to pay their fair share, but that doesn’t mean that they should support the entire country and government. We all have a stake, and it has been shown that when something is free, it is not as respected, or as appreciated as that for which some payment is made. When food stamps first came out, they were offered an amount,. say $100 in food stamps, that they “bought ” for say, $10. Eventually that was changed, but the idea was that they still had a vested interest if they paid a little bit.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

Fourths! I feel much better now.

poppajoe49
Member

all of a sudden, everyone runs and hides.

Not everyone has the time to answer all of your questions. You inundate this board with so many inane posts that it is hard to weed through all the crap.
I had work to do, you are done for the day, so you have the chance to post unlimited garbage.
When I finally got back to my computer, I had over 170 emails from IHTM, many were your posts. I don’t have time to respond to them all, in fact, there are still 109 emails/posts that I haven’t gotten to yet.

Now, to answer your question, I support the flat tax, which has exemption levels based on family size. They are $10,000 for single, $20,000 for married, $13,000 for single head of household, and $6,000 per dependant. After that exemption, the tax is somewhere under 20% according to all the different proposals.
Therefore, a family of 4 with an income of $32,000 will pay nothing, but a family of 2 with the same income will pay taxes on $12,000 of their income.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2005/07/A-Brief-Guide-to-the-Flat-Tax#_ftn6

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I still don’t understand the exemptions for family size. Why do I need to subsidize other people’s children? So there’s still social engineering even in that.

poppajoe49
Member

RHG, the exemptions are just like they are now, a certain amount per person. It’s their way of allowing for the cost of living (food, utilities, etc) based on each person in a household.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I hear you, Poppa. I still just get the feeling I’m paying child support for kids that aren’t mine. I never wanted kids, never had any, and so I have to pay more taxes?

poppajoe49
Member

RHG, do you think it would cost you more to feed and clothe kids, or pay the tax for not having them?
Think about it that way and it should make you feel a little better.

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

They estimate the U.S. black and gray markets are about 1,000,000,000,000 annually. It would be good to get some of that into the tax stream. Income taxes will not affect it in any way.

David Bishop
Member
David Bishop
Member

By the way Olivia, my proposed plan is an altered plan from the heritage foundation which proposed survival income at 25,000 and an 18% tax overhand. The revenue generated would be 12% more then being currently generated. That math was done utilizing a very conservative figure on how much tax revenue is being loopholed.

I did the math. Granting a 30,000 survival income base, with a 20% tax overhand, the revenue generated would be 14% more then is currently being generated. This is assuming 2010 IRS figures. Once again, this is a very conservative estimate on how many rich people are utilizing tax loopholes and government handouts to pay lower taxes. The over/under that the heritage foundation used in this formulation was a +6/-1, whereas I utilized a +7/0, because I hardly assume extremely wealthy people, aware of loopholes, are not using them. The real over/under could easily be +15/0

Granted a +15/0 O/U, generated revenue would go up by 23%; so figure somewhere between an increase in tax revenue of 14-23%

This would bring revenue to 19% of GDP, which is easily manageable for the government, considering we would reform social programs and cut our defense budget.

poppajoe49
Member

A lot of inflation has occurred since 2006, Olivia.

But David, that can’t possibly be! 😉
Since they took food and energy out of the inflation index (we all know nobody needs food or energy) inflation is non-existant!
Gas is over $3.50 a gallon and milk is pushing $4.00 a gallon, all categories of food are increasing because of the cost of transportation, but there’s no inflation!
“Ignore the man behind the curtain!”

A
Guest

The reason that group has no money is because they buy stuff, not something they need but nice stuff. The poor in america have flat screen tvs, microwaves, computers, and some drive really nice cars. They do this all with their welfare checks. If they are taking taxes out of SS checks then they could take the tax out of the welfare checks. Even though you could just stop supporting that do nothing lifestyle with Welfare checks to begin with. (this would keep more money in the bank, now less revenue needs to come in)

Olivia
Member

The reason that group has no money is because they buy stuff, not something they need but nice stuff. The poor in america have flat screen tvs, microwaves, computers, and some drive really nice cars. They do this all with their welfare checks.
***********************
And your evidence supporting this extremely popular stereotype is……?

sa_rose
Member

Walk into any ghetto level home-black white, Hispanic. They ask at the food stamp office if the family has cable, and how much it costs. THen figure that into their exempt income.

StrinaM
Member

I am so tired of hearing the pay and benefits of the military, those that do a service for their country, being targeted for reduction, but hear nothing of those who do nothing but suck on the teat of society getting threatened with reduction of their “bennies”. Flat tax! 10% for individuals, 15% for corporations. No deductions. EVERYONE pays, if they make a dime, $.01 goes to the taxman. This also kills two birds with one stone, we can drastically reduce or eradicate the IRS, saving billions of dollars from our budget. We also need to count lottery winnings for welfare eligibility. The story of that guy who won something like $800,000 I think it was or maybe that is what he got to keep after taxes, still getting welfare pissed me off to no end. The government’s excuse? We don’t count winnings in the eligibility tables…

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I agree with almost all of your post, Strina, except for the 15% for corporations. That just means that you’ve taken the 10% individual tax, and added 15% to it, since the individual pays ALL taxes. Corporate taxes just puts corporations in the position of tax collector.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Agreed. I am sick and tired of paying what is pretty much an extra 30 (plus plus depending) dollars in tax alone for services around here. Be it cellphone or whatever. Some companies have actually started to state that this is a tax because the government imposed it on them and they are not willing nor able to pay the tax themselves so they ask us to pay it. It is utterly disgusting. The government will be JUST FINE if there is a flat tax from individuals. They get paid they get taxed ONCE per paycheck and that is it. When I go buy something why do I have to pay tax on that? And why do I have to pay for permits to build something in the house that I own? And why do people have to pay taxes on mortgage payments? What the heck is that about? Why do I have to pay a tax on the land? Why is my insurance and hospital services taxed? It is disgusting. If I pay for the product and then the owner gets a paycheck tax the owner’s paycheck alone and for the same amount I get taxed. Don’t assail the owner with extra taxes that he or she passes on to me.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

All good questions Kimmy. As for the tax that you pay on improvements you make to your home, please understand. You DO NOT own your home. The government does. If you have any questions about this, just try not paying your rent to the government. (Property taxes.) The purpose of the permit process is so that the owner of “your” home can keep track of any increases in the value, so they can raise the “rent” accordingly.

Olivia
Member

I am so tired of hearing the pay and benefits of the military, those that do a service for their country, being targeted for reduction, but hear nothing of those who do nothing but suck on the teat of society getting threatened with reduction of their “bennies”.
*******************
So tell us: how much do you think it takes for, say, a family of four to put food on the table, keep a (warm and dry) roof over their heads, and meet the needs of growing children?

I just talked to a regular on this board who revealed to me that she’s on disability, and has a struggle each month just to pay bills. Is she one of those whom you’re describing as “suck(ing) on the teat of society”? How much do you propose to slash her income, and why do you assume that her physiological and safety needs are less pressing than those of military families?

That’s the problem with stereotypes: when you start taking a closer look at the individual, you often discover that the stereotype doesn’t quite fit. And that forces you to think, rather than just react.

sa_rose
Member

Don’t use me to back you psychotic views. And there are military families ON food stamps so what does that say about their pay? Clearly they can’t afford anymore cuts.

Olivia
Member

Don’t use me to back you psychotic views. And there are military families ON food stamps so what does that say about their pay? Clearly they can’t afford anymore cuts.
*******************
Then perhaps the spouse (if there is one) ought to consider getting up off the couch and going out to look for work.

That’s the snap solution you righties keep suggesting to CIVILIAN families who get food stamps and other “bennies,” isn’t it?

sa_rose
Member

Many of them do. Others have several small children and working outside the home would be prohibitively expensive. Some try to run small businesses at home (Avon, Mary Kay and the like). The point is, if you are whining about civilians deserving food stamps and a multitude of assistinig agencies, even though thery are able bodied and ABLE to work, you are in no position to claim that military pay should be cut any further. They are working-to protect your ass and your right to spout off all your ridiculous claims,, not sitting at home eating Doritos in front of WWW. The very LEAST they deserve is a living wage to care for their families.

Olivia
Member

if you are whining about civilians deserving food stamps and a multitude of assistinig agencies, even though thery are able bodied and ABLE to work, you are in no position to claim that military pay should be cut any further.
*****************
I never claimed that military pay should be cut, Rose. I was simply pointing out that there seems to be a double standard here, regarding the use of food stamps. Odd that you won’t even consider the possibility that a military wife could go out and get a job instead of being “on the dole,” but are perfectly willing to assume that civilians who are on that same “dole” must not be trying hard enough.

sa_rose
Member

OMG!!!!!!! Did you even READ the post? Sorry, what was I thinking. Of course you didn’t. You picked out 1 sentence and went flying off down the tangent path to suit what you insist must be true, despite all evidence to the contrary. Just as a review, those that can, do. The point being that they are WORKING and still an’t make a living wage, while the government is GIVING AWAY money to those who could work, but choose not to.

Olivia
Member

Don’t use me to back you psychotic views.
********************
Was it really “psychotic” of me to urge your right wing buddies here not to see you as “sucking off the public teat” simply because you, like those dastardly welfare recipients, are getting government assistance?

Okay, have it your way, Rose. 😉

RockingHorseGuy
Member

You know, having a page refuse to allow you the privilege of applying thumbs up or down is really irritating when there’s an Olivia post with two thumbs down sitting right there in front of you. Kinda like if you were duck hunting, and a whole flock settled down in front of you, and all you have is a shotgun designed and built by the Obama Administration.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I am sorry RHG. It must be torture…

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

That’s darn funny RHG!

drb
Member

That happens to me every once in a while. Hit the F5 button to refresh the screen and it usually fixes the problem. At least it does for me.

RockingHorseGuy
Member

I’ve even rebooted the computer. And that one button, the thumb down on Dear Sweet Olivia’s last post just refuses to budge. Oh well, I’ll get my first turd on another thread, I guess.

sa_rose
Member

Since I am legitimately disabled, cannot work, and have EARNED my social security retirement after working my ass off for some 45 years, I don’t think any of my “right wing buddies” SEE me as “sucking off the public teat.” We have all repeatedly stated we do not wish to eliminate assistance programs for those who need them, We want to clear the rolls of those who are abusing the system. If you would talk less and listen more, you MIGHT have caught that.

rs
Member

Cohen showed Congress’ true colors when he started quoting the bank robber Willie Sutton.

Buck O'Fama
Guest

Heh. Another truth accidentally blurted out.

MightyManfred
Member

Libs in both parties want as many dependents of gummint as possible, that keeps needy folk beholding to them and keeps them in power. The federal gummint needs an enema!

Olivia
Member

Libs in both parties want as many dependents of gummint as possible, that keeps needy folk beholding to them and keeps them in power.
****************
There are no liberal Republicans nowadays, Manfred. And, no, we liberals don’t want to see people dependent on the government if they don’t have to be. But I’m having a hard time seeing why you think big giveaways to the rich, at the expense of the poor and the trying-to-stay-out-of-poverty working class, is going to keep the latter independent and financially solvent.

And please don’t try to argue that rich people will create jobs if we ply them with lots of tax breaks. Rich people get rich because they know how to make good use of money. And they’re not going to create jobs unless it’s to their own material advantage to do so.

sa_rose
Member

blah blah blah blah. . . ad nauseum!

Buck O'Fama
Guest

Yeah, but how’re the Demoloons going to foment class warfare if you treat people equally? What’ll the Demoloons use to get elected without that? Don’t you realize that the most important consideration here is not the economy, or peoples’ jobs or lives but making sure the Demoloons get rich and powerful by not actually working? Geez.

KimmyQueen
Guest

You make a good point. Isn’t socialism about treating everyone equally? If that is the case then everyone should pay a fair and flat tax (I agree with Mrs. Editor) and be done. If it is not “enough” then the government needs to stop extraneous spending and eliminate people and agencies that are not doing anything necessarily or constitutional.

Buck O'Fama
Guest

In the conclusion of Orwell’s “Animal Farm”, the ruling pigs change the farm motto to “All are equal but some are more equal than others.” To (slightly) paraphrase Rush Limbaugh, progressives look upon Orwell’s works as a plan, not a parody.

I wish they’d make a movie of this novel; John Kerry can play a horse and Al Franken can play its other end.

sa_rose
Member

Kimmy! Welcome back!

KimmyQueen
Guest

Thanks Rose!

sa_rose
Member

I now you are probably a little lost-I was Deb, butr I kept getting mixed up wiht another DEb, so I changed my screen name! At any rate, its nice to see you back.

KimmyQueen
Guest

Oh lol! Thanks Deb! It is nice to be back and to see you.

drb
Member

Which Deb are you?

KimmyQueen
Guest

She is the intelligent one that makes sense when she posts LOL.

drb
Member

Were both Deb’s nurses??

sa_rose
Member

I don’t know. BUt in the thread we’ve been troll bashing on about Keith Olbermann (that now has nothing to do with the lead story) I started as Deb, then changed to SA rose, which has always been my signin name. 😛

sa_rose
Member

Awwww.. . *blush* Thanks Kimmy. We have had some good tag team efforts, have we not?

KimmyQueen
Guest

Good times, good times!

sa_rose
Member

MMMMMM I don’t know how to differentiate. I didn’t realize there were others until I got reamed for something one of the other Debs posted. I live in Texas, if that helps!?

RockingHorseGuy
Member

It would help for me, if my computer would download the avatars. All I get is the broken picture symbols. Besides, how do you upload an avatar around here?

poppajoe49
Member

RHG, From the FAQ section:

How do I put my photo or image with my comments like some of the other commenters?

The images you see in the comments are called Gravatars. These are images recognized by most web sites, and are associated with an email address. If you do not have a gravatar set up, a site-wide default image will be shown in it’s place. Getting a gravatar is free, and simple. Just go to Gravatar.com.
http://en.gravatar.com/

David Bishop
Member

testing for my photo!

Edit: And I fail.. how long does this take?

Edit: And I refresh.. and it works.. so I failed again. Thanks bud!

poppajoe49
Member

Alright David! I see it too.
It was driving me crazy the other day when you and RHG were asking about that, and I forgot where the info was. It just hit me tonight.

David Bishop
Member

Appreciate the help!

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

Seems like a pain in the posterior and it is, then all of a sudden it works. The process is what made me go to Formerly rather than just plain old regular DeanH. Then all my old regular DeanH posts had the same picture which I’ll attribute to my impatience waiting for the response. However, I have not logged in as my old regular DeanH since the acquisition of my new ID. The powers that be at IHTM may be able to verify this as fact for those who may think I’d use my multiple log in IDs for the purpose of increasing my Whack-a-Troll scores. I have not done so. Anyone who conducts themselves in such behavior deserves punity. I love making up words. Now wait until you want to change your ‘Gravatar’ and it takes longer than the first time. Or, you know, don’t!

Olivia
Member

You make a good point. Isn’t socialism about treating everyone equally? If that is the case then everyone should pay a fair and flat tax (I agree with Mrs. Editor) and be done.
******************
That’s not “treating everyone equally.” For some, that flat tax would essentially wipe out all their disposable income. For the wealthy, it would be a mere drop in the bucket. Bottom line: the rich would make out like bandits, and the financially struggling would be dealt an even bigger hardship.

sa_rose
Member

OMG, not here too?

FormerlyDeanH
Guest

Your ‘gravatar’ resembles a ‘Tribble’. They’re cute, fuzzy, and completely voracious in bins of quadrotriticale, as feed and apparently a reproductive stimulant. I hope you’re not on a cargo ship -star or otherwise – full of the stuff. I’ll bet there is a fermented beverage that could use the stuff, at least as an adjunct if not as the primary grist.

My sleepy has arrived. Good night everyone.

Babydoll102187
Member

Oh my, you were tired! You made me laugh! I hope you had a good night’s rest, too.

It kinda does look like a tribble. doesnt it? But at first glance I assumed it was a Pekingese dog. Is it a Pekingese, SA_Rose?

sa_rose
Member

It is. I know it looks like a tribble, but it is a real planet earth pekingese. This was the Peke that won the Westminster Dog Show a few years back. Still, the tribble description pretty much fits a Peke!

KimmyQueen
Guest

LOL I I thought it was a very furry bunny.

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “the financially struggling would be dealt an even bigger hardship.”

Our entire economy is financially struggling, yet the political Left wants to keep on spending at an alarming rate and then calls those who want to stop such obvious financial madness “terrorists.”

It would seem those two thoughts are diametrically opposed, but thoughts to a Liberal are like BB’s rolling around in a bowl and randomly banging together.

Olivia
Member

Slowlivia: “the financially struggling would be dealt an even bigger hardship.”

Our entire economy is financially struggling, yet the political Left wants to keep on spending at an alarming rate and then calls those who want to stop such obvious financial madness “terrorists.”
********************
I didn’t call them “terrorists,” and I know no other liberals who have.

But I do think some of you far righters are being both short sighted and foolish, in your efforts to spare the wealthy by overburdening the financially struggling.

Sidekick
Member

I didn’t call them “terrorists,” and I know no other liberals who have.

ummmm, Olivia, that would be the Vice-President of the United States who said fiscal conservatives acted as terrorists.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html

But I do think some of you far righters are being both short sighted and foolish, in your efforts to spare the wealthy by overburdening the financially struggling.

Ok, we have been through this before. We know that the top 10% wage earners pick up 71% of the total federal income tax bill. How much is enough to satisfy progressives? You socialists are so funny.

I think some of your progressive beacons like Kerry, Pelosi, Boxer, Reid, Rockefeller etc should have their generational wealth taxed at 70%. You know, just so they can share in the sacrifice. Why 70%? Why not. The progressives seem to want that bracket for top wage earners.

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/top10-percent-income-earners

beanhead54
Guest

Slowlivia: “I didn’t call them “terrorists,” and I know no other liberals who have.”

You make my case in a nutshell, Slow. If it doesn’t happen to you, it doesn’t happen. If it isn’t important to you, it isn’t important. If an idea doesn’t appeal to your brain, it shunts off to your anal orifice. Sorry to say, I’m almost convinced that in your case, those two body parts are actually one and the same.

KimmyQueen
Guest

That is why we call her posts turds.

beanhead54
Guest

KQ: “That is why we call her posts turds.”

Whew! At least my deductive reasoning is intact.

It’s a shame when you have to get downright rude with some people to get their attention. OK, I admit it’s fun as hell, but a still damn shame. If her socially superior nose got any higher in the air, she’d have to register it with the FAA.

KimmyQueen
Guest

I have to admit that I probably should be nicer to fools, but it is very difficult. This world will never lack for fools, but their existence irritates me. I pray about it, but everytime a fool talks foolishness, I just have to say something. Ugh I can’t stand fools and since I was a child, I loved putting them down. I am trying though to change my ways, but like I said it is very hard.

Sidekick
Member

“Our entire economy is financially struggling, yet the political Left wants to keep on spending at an alarming rate and then calls those who want to stop such obvious financial madness “terrorists.” ”

The knowledge of basic economics among progressives is simply nonexistent. I believe it is willful ignorance for the most part. Sort of like when someone who has a credit card thinks he has money.

JayBoy
Guest

We all know how it works. Everyone being treated fairly and equally is only in the sales pitch for Socialism, not in the implementation of it!

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