Next time your kid comes home in a Che Guevara T-shirt, ask him if he knows what the Cuban murderer actually stood for. Sit him down, strip the gauze of ignorance from his eyes and have him read these Guevara quotes.
Then burn the damn T-shirt.
1. “Crazy with fury I will stain my rifle red while slaughtering any enemy that falls in my hands! My nostrils dilate while savoring the acrid odor of gunpowder and blood. With the deaths of my enemies I prepare my being for the sacred fight and join the triumphant proletariat with a bestial howl!”
The only good Che Guevara is a dead Che Guevara
2. “Blind hate against the enemy creates a forceful impulse that cracks the boundaries of natural human limitations, transforming the soldier in an effective, selective and cold killing machine. A people without hate cannot triumph against the adversary.”
3. “To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary … These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution!”
4. “A revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate. We must create the pedagogy of the The Wall!” The Wall is a reference to the wall where Che’s enemies stood before his firing squads.
5. “I am not Christ or a philanthropist, old lady, I am all the contrary of a Christ … I fight for the things I believe in, with all the weapons at my disposal and try to leave the other man dead so that I don’t get nailed to a cross or any other place.”
6. “If any person has a good word for the previous government that is good enough for me to have him shot.”
7. Che wanted the result of the Cuban missile crisis to be an atomic war. “What we affirm is that we must proceed along the path of liberation even if this costs millions of atomic victims.”
8. “In fact, if Christ himself stood in my way, I, like Nietzsche, would not hesitate to squish him like a worm.”
9. “Let me say, at the risk of seeming ridiculous, that the true revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love.”
10. “It’s a sad thing not to have friends, but it is even sadder not to have enemies.”
Be sure not to miss our 13 Reasons You Should Throw Away Your Che Guevara T-Shirt article.
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“…Che was a self professed marx/lenninist. ”
“The emergence of free enterprise is everywhere (small business though it might be) there is none the less an emerging market society! I say this only as a comparison to what was for the Cuban working class and what is now! Not perfect, not even good by developed world standards.”
Those are your words. See the incompatible nature of Che’s politics and the reality on the ground?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/fidel-castro-cuba-economic-model
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/09/fidel-cuban-model-doesnt-even-work-for-us-anymore/62602/
Too bad the Castro brothers and men like Che wasted 50 years of Cuba’s existence and permitted a brain drain to the US that likely will not return.
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Cuba was small potatoes he wanted to spread communism everywhere as all communists wanted to do. Remember your Marx: it is workers of the WORLD unite. You answered your own question in your post.
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Communism can’t survive alongside free people. As soon as the slaves realize that others have freedom, they want it for themselves.
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Flash, the problem with trying to explain that to an idealistic person that supports communism, is that they have been indoctrinated with the purported benefits of the idea, but haven’t had to live under it’s thumb.
Those that have lived under it, and then tasted freedom, have a completely different viewpoint. Take Yakov Smirnoff for example. He was a very popular comedian in the 80′s. He was a Russian immigrant to the US, and made a living with his humorous look at life under Soviet rule, and his tag line of “America, What a country!”
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I remember Yakov well. I’m pretty sure that the only visitors from communist countries to free countries that WANT to go back home are “dignitaries.” They are astonished at the freedoms the the peons have here, and they can’t wait to get back home and see people starving again.
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Che was disatisfied in Cuba because he wasn’t in a war anymore. So he took off to spread his revolution elsewhere.
In 1960 Guevara visited China and the Soviet Union. On his return he wrote two books Guerrilla Warfare and Reminiscences of the Cuban Revolutionary War. In these books he argued that it was possible to export Cuba’s revolution to other South American countries. Guevara served as Minister for Industries (1961-65) but in April 1965 he resigned and become a guerrilla leader in Bolivia.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/COLDguevara.htm -
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I read he was REMOVED because he called moscow capitalists re: algiers.
edit: From 1961 to 1965 Guevara was minister for industries, and director of the national bank, signing the bank notes simply ‘Che’. He traveled widely in Russia, India and Africa, meeting the leading figures of the world, among others Jawaharel Nehru and Nikita Khruschev. Guevara was also the architect of the close relations between Cuba and the Soviet Union. Although good relationships with Moscow become the cornerstone of Castro’s foreign policy, Guevara followed the emergence of the Maoists. In 1965 Guevara made public his disappointments in Algiers and described the Kremlin as “an accomplice of imperialism”. Guevara’s dismissal from the ministry followed immediately on his return from Algiers.
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Robert W – Absolutely! This exact speech is/was available on You tube
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don’t mistake me. I only c&p’d the text which I’d found on a pro-lynch site to show that he didn’t resign but was removed. lynch, in my considered opinion, was a very egotistical person, and unwilling to compromise even for the sake of the proletariat. he went to fight in bolivia because he wanted to make marsism succeed there, even though the bolivians had recently been granted universal suffrage.
I don’t know, nor do i care what he was trying to do in the Congo, because when I realized that Dr. Albert Schweitzer had been kicked out of the Congo, I realized the people deserved whatever happened next.
the political mess in Bolivia would take more than just a mere perusal of events, but it is interesting to note that a Capitalist from America was attempting to provide small tractors so the people could collectively farm, and thus feed the people who were dropping like flies. the U.N. dropped the ball on that one.
the pres in bolivia was, apparently a 2 faced leader, who used the U.S’. support and backing for his own purposes and not as a supporter of democracy. lynch was merely opportunistic, and he, like zerobama today, denigrated the campesinos when they didn’t fawn all over him. typical elitest mentality.
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Congo-January 1965
Bolivia-November 1966
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Congo/ Why the hell was he there? Just to cause problems. And the Congo has been paying the price ever since. Nice job.
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Communism and its spreading around the world during the last century was imperialism in a different form. Of course pure communism can never exist that is why we get the genocidal maniacs like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, et al. That is what was threatening to capitalism and western style democracies. They sold a seductive line of bs and enough people swallowed it to their detriment. That was the threat. Today Marxism has been repackaged in the form of a co-opted Democratic Party here in the US. I really don’t care if you agree but it is self-evident if you were to re-examine the 10 pillars of communism and then see what is going in Washington.
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SK-I agree with everything you just wrote there!
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Oh, Lord.
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I know… Amazing!
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See? Even you can be wrong!
LOL
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OMG PJ49- you’re ruining a really good moment! It wasn’t about me being wrong it was about what SK wrote specifically in his post that I agreed with! Sometimes it’s a long and winding road but it can happen! Why do you have to make it always about right and wrong?
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Try to keep up. I was saying SK was wrong. He knows what I mean.
Not everything is about you.
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two bahd yore uh relutuvist.
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Georgina, think back to the days of slavery here in this country. I’m sure you would agree that freedom was right, and slavery was wrong. No gray area, right or wrong. Right? Why would it be any different now?
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Could you please stop with the faces. We ALL can read and understand the “voice” in which the message was written and I doubt any of us are still in grade school. So just make your comments and leave it at that. No hearts, flowers or FACES!
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I wish available ‘emoticons’ included cute little guns, knives and bombs, like Spy Vs. Spy type stuff. They’re so cute! I’d use them all the time to emphasize my destructive bent toward all things prog.
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LOL that clownship has long sailed.. you ain’t gonna stop emoticons on the internet..
I think more along FDH lines here. I’m sure Admin can find a set of additional emoticons to support
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ooo….how’d you do those? that first one has horns!
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I LIKE those 2! How do you do that?
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Georgina should remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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It is soooo nice living in Cuba that it is a wonder anyone would want to escape the grip of the state there and want to live in the United States, of all places to pick, they choose the one that is soooo evil and mean. What are these people thinking? http://abcnews.go.com/US/cuban-actors-expected-tribeca-film-festival-premiere-disappear/story?id=16197016#.T5XSZbNPvLw
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honestly, i think certain types of people are just satisfied with such an arrangement..
I’m reminded of the crazy feeling i first had in basic training. They told me when to eat, when to sh-t and how to shave and shower.. I barely had to use my brain. It reminded me of elementary school, and some guys still had trouble in there.
What if an entire nation/society was like that? Certain people crave it, methinks
OK yeah, not a revelation to y’all
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Like poor old Boxer in “Animal Farm”, right?
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“It is surprising,” she told the website. “I mean, they had all of their family there and it’s surprising. But things can be difficult in Cuba. There’s an embargo and so there’s a lot of challenges for people living in Cuba.”
so it’s because of OUR embargo of them that the Cubans have it so bad?
major, typical bs.
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Of course. It’s always our fault. Mostly Bush.
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Of course it is our fault. That is the POINT of an embargo.
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Yes exactly… Just like Boxer! (the working class not being able to recognize when the government is corrupt)
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No, its called “go along to get along”.
If someone is too complacent to speak out against what they know is wrong, they become as guilty as the oppressors.
Boxer was the only one strong enough and respected enough to stop Napoleon, but he was too complacent to take the lead and stop him.
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I think Orwell was trying to make the point with Boxer that he was exploited more by the pigs than he was by Mr.Jones and by such was unable to recognize the corruption. (hence my earlier remark) Remember he died at the glue factory betrayed by the pigs…
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I think you both are making valid points regarding Boxer. He was willing to work for either master. No real thought went into it. Laboring is just what he did and it was the eventual death of him.
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Thanks SK… I’m used to being the bad guy around here, so that actually made a mark!
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Look, Georgina, being a bad guy on this board is a choice. No-one is really opposed to differing opinions but it would be nice if the tone among some of the liberals who visit were more civil and free from calling conservatives stupid/ignorant/ill-informed. Based on a few of your more recent posts, you actually seem to share common ground with me and maybe some others. The difference at least for me is that I believe a lot of political solutions will come from economic freedom as expressed by Friedman or Hazlett. Communist/socialists by definition will not entertain that idea as centrally planned economies are their style. They never work because the elites can never possess enough information about their economies to make informed and correct decisions. If the inverse were true, then the USSR would not have collapsed and China would not have developed a capitalist system. Not a very good one but certainly not what they had before.
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Unlike the Dark Dingleberry, whose posts I refuse to even read, I’m still reading yours, Georgina. Even if they’ve been buried. When you say something that I disagree with, I thumb you down. If I agree, I thumb you up. You have to get really disgusting, or boring, to be TD,…….MO.
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Hey Thanks! I think it comes down, at a point, to just agree to disagree! It’s tough to make it clear why I might think the way I do without writing an essay! My work and travel specifically to Cuba and other South American countries has actually changed my opinion over the years but I do get that it’s not shared by many here and I do respect that!
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So, what about Japan? A sort of hybrid, in that it is capitalism, but highly managed through a heirarchy of umbrella corporations? That seems to work pretty well for them, even after their standard of living crossed ours, in 1987. And in a country with far fewer natural resources to utilize than ours.
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Japan is interesting. 220% debt or so, yet potentially on top of building a legion of robotics to take care of their aging population. Full of odd fetishes, yet remarkably stable
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http://japanisweird.com/
Just remember. What has been seen cannot be un-seen.
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http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/14726-sigh-nobody-s-going-to-s
it’s darkdripper.
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Awesome. I’m going in..
LETS DO THIS, JAPAN!!!! Auuughggahghgghghgghh
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TheDarkEricDraven’s car!!
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/14760-gives-new-meaning-to-using
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Eric’s bathroom
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/14697-surely-if-it-gets-you-arous
Eric’s “Action Figures”
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/14736-they-upped-the-creep-factor
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/18696-dating-101-you-re-doing-it
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/26851-i-keep-getting-older-but-t
Eric’s favorite condoms
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/28782-pedo-bear-practices-safe-se
Date night for Eric
http://japanisweird.com/weirdjapanese/popular/47937-forever-alone
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Perlcat, that Japan is Weird site was pretty funny. But some of it reminded me of the days when I worked for Larry Nagel, of WizardWerks.
I was one of the operators of this “trandformer” toy brought to life,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvAmeAdBgD4
then I was part of the crew that built this monster,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1vHZhUWFlQ
It was loads of fun traveling the country putting on shows, even paid pretty well.
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TD,………MO.
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I sooo should have listened to you Perlcat! I never got the flash sheet. All of a suddent the first photo popped up. I need to go disinfect my brain. Excuse me…….
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@Georgina, i for one am glad you made it through the gauntlet of IHTM
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ha! its a tough crowd
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Alien… I’m kinda glad too!
I’ve learned a thing or two that’s for sure!
I wonder who thumbed down your comment though
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i finally ut’d this comment.
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But he saw what the pigs were doing, he knew it was wrong, and refused to do anything about it.
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Agreed. He just worked.
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SK- I’ve suffered a barrage much worse than I’ve given! And I actually try very hard to remain civil but I will take your comments under advisement and try harder!
I haven’t read Hazlitt or Friedman in many many years, I will read them again.
I’m certainly no communist and have tried hard to keep my actual political leanings seperate from this particular thread as I was really trying to share an opinion without a political bias because my opinion of Che (which I know is not popular here… I do get that everyone!) is more humanist in nature than it is political… That’s all!
I am good with agreeing to disagree and moving on…
I love the fact that so many people on this site believe so fiercly in things, It’s incredibly refreshing. Much of what’s said here I actually agree with but have avoided commenting (barring some WW2 statistics), I know I would likely be met with labels of hypocrite… And I try very hard not to be that!
Anyway thanks for writing what you did! Appreciate it!
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OK Georgina, I gave you a thumbs up for that one.
Now I want to try to show you something.
You said this:
I was really trying to share an opinion without a political bias because my opinion of Che……………. is more humanist in nature than it is political… That’s all!
Now the best way to explain why that doesn’t make sense to me, is to quote Alien, who I also often disagree with.
I think if you focus on what Che did after he and Fidel gained power in Cuba, you’ll see the problem.. I can otherwise understand cheering for resistance against Batista.
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/10-che-guevara-quotes-the-left-would-rather-not-talk-about/comment-page-6#comment-174851
You see, what we despise about Che has nothing to do with him deposing a despot leader, it has to do with how he acted AFTER he gained control. If he had been satisfied with getting rid of Batista, and then moving on, there probably wouldn’t be so much of a viceral reaction to him, but he had to slaughter unarmed people AFTER the revolution was accomplished. (Read about La Cabana)
Also, he was appointed to a couple of political posts by Castro, but wasn’t happy with being a leader of a country not at war, he needed the rush of killing people, so he went on to other countries to battle and murder again and again.
He may have been an idealist and revolutionary at first, but then he acquired a taste for blood, not freedom.
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Hey PJ49-I do understand why you might feel the way you do, I actually felt differently than I do now many years ago but as I mentioned in another post to flashingscotsman, It would take an essay…
I have spent a lot of time in my life in South America and Cuba for work and I have witnessed things and had access to information that has required that I question the authenticity of some sources etc. One little example being that – Che, after the Revolution was the Comander of La Cabana, Yes, but this was in terms of cultural education of the new military. The #’s of those killed immediately after the Revolution before Che left for Europe in June of 59 vary between 175 and 375 (obviously Cuba’s official #’s being the lower on that scale) but after he left there are accounts of #’s upward of 1500, even up to 2000. Raul Castro was often the one who had no mercy and signed off on these executions as is shown in the case of the 100 Soldiers he had executed in Santigo de Cuba immediatley after the Revolution. And I have witnessed documentation that indicates that no death could be enacted without Fidel Castro’s command. I try not to examine that time in a vacuum, It must have been chaos! Women and family’s were marching the streets demanding the death of Batista’s men held in custody for all the atrosities they had performed, the #’s of men that had disappeared, the slaughters that took place during the Batista regime made for an angry hostile people who only wanted their idea of just retribution to be preformed by the Revolutionaries now that the Revolutionaries had won! Right or Wrong… It was a war won by brave but politically inexperienced men. There’s so much more as to why I feel the way I do but I think we’ve concluded that you and I have different opinions and I have actually examined the links a few people have posted with interest but I wouldn’t want to bore you with much more of my personal philosophy when it comes to Che Guevara (unless of course you might be interesed) I have started an essay here when I meant not to! I feel an olive branch has been offered here in your post and a few others and I’d like to take you up on it! We wont agree on this particular issue but there are many others where I do share your opinion!
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In March 1958, President Dwight Eisenhower, disillusioned with Batista’s performance, suggested he held elections. This he did, but the people showed their dissatisfaction with his government by refusing to vote.
hmm. they were given the opportunity to vote but refused it. In my considered opinion, the people wanted a blood bath, regardless of who was in charge.
calling batista, chancho, fidel, or raul brave though? naw, i can’t stomach that.
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I don’t know… A couple of years in The Sierra Maestra, Only a few men and little in terms of weapons! Taking on what they did, how they did with what they had seems brave to me! I have been to Castro’s camp in the height of Summer… tough existence! But I’m female, so maybe my filters!
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probly your filters, Sierra maestra looks like a nice vacation spot to me.
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It is beautiful! Now that there’s a road (if you can call it that) part of the way up to where the camp is still preserved cuts days of hiking off. Still a 3-5 hour hike though to get to it! Very hot (and I love the heat) mosquitos and insects, Snakes to be very wary of!
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i know about poisonous snakes, spiders too, and the occasional scorpion, feral dog, skunks, bears, personally.
not to mention sharks, monkeys, mosquitoes, fire-ants, hornets, esp. ground hornets.
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I’ve had a few experiences of my own involving fire ants! I was in Belize and the southern part of the Yucatan peninsular when Wilma hit and to survive all that rain the ants just surfaced! Every inch everywhere covered for days! Wouldn’t wish that on anyone!
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It takes a brave revolutionary to embellish his story when he authors his autobiography – or not – when the commie wads in charge do the, ahhh… editing.
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One has to wonder, after all that bravery, why they didn’t institute a system of government that allows freedom and prosperity for their people?
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Because then they would be just like the awful USA was at that time.
Unfortunately, we are becoming more like Cuba.
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flashingscotsman – Now that IS the question! Why after all that effort does it always have to go wrong? The answer to this we all know is obvious, not only in Cuba’s case but many countries around the world and Is exactly why socialism/communism CAN’T work!
Someone’s gotta have the power! I guess this poses the problem of men/women, politics and power and becomes an endless loop with no simple answer!
Some of the wisest words ever said soon go forgotten it seems by these very men/women, “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
It seems Great Leaders whoever they may start out being by forgetting this let power (and I can only assume it’s power) corrupt them!
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So, seeing how successful the revolution was with limited weapons, the first thing Che and Castro did when they took over was to make sure they confiscated all the guns from the people.
How very brave of them.
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They stol weaponry and supplies form government troops, in addition to what they “acquired from the peasantry. They were not as bad off as all that.
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Brave might just not fit the bill, right? They maybe had some balls, maybe chutzpah is even more kosher. Brave under fire? I doubt it. Brave when shooting a bound prisoner in the head for opposing your confiscation of his property? Oh yeah. There’s the bravery of cheche.
Who could get tired of this? http://www.hasharat.co.il/images/news_181_CheTickle.gif
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lol, never get tired of that FDH.
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Somebody’s been to the Marxist archives! ROBERT!
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well yeah, but Sierra Maestra looks like a vacation spot compared to where i lived in Panama, and some of the places out in the field where i’ve trained.
shoot, can you imagine? one wouldn’t have to eat mre’s one could get fresh fish, fresh meat, and likely fresh fruit, not to mention a nice bath.
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He desired communism, he desired that the people no longer be controlled by the current dictator, he wanted a new one. He was NOT a freedom fighter.
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classic icon for rebellion, (Though there certainly are better examples)
for the life of me i can’t think of a worse example.
him as the sign of the classic revolutionary is kind of cool.
you’re nuts, bonkers, balmy, bent, twisted, insane.
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Ok, fine. He helped overthrow Batista, and then he went and murdered unarmed people.
Someone to look up to, isn’t he?
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LOL exactly. Exalting such an individual completely ignores that the honorable revolution may have entirely been a masquerade..
What irks me lately, is that I’ve come to find that there were more honorable participants in the revolution against Batista, with much stronger democratic values. And they were crowded out of power. I haven’t been able to read this entire monster thread, so perhaps they’ve been mentioned. But surely someone’s made a T-Shirt with their forgotten faces
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Which is what this thread was originally allabout. The Left, particularlythe very far left hold Che upas a hero who overthrew a corrupt government in Cuba. But there is more to his stroy than that. And much of it is not very heroic. One needs to know both sides. No one is perfectly this or alltogether that. And for me, his other activities overshadow whatever good he may have tried to convince people he was doing in the Revolution. NO one, not even Castro, can honestly think that Cuba is better off post revolution.
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2 points Rose.
I trust you’re not using “know” in the biblical sense.
And
Castro likely doesn’t care one way or another about the inhabitants of Cuba. He’s just a selfish dick taster who has successfully quashed all overt opposition against himself so that he is ultimate.
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I can understand your opinion, since it is similar to the aids virus, overthrowing the rule of same-gender sexual intercourse, and even bestiality. or the bolsheviks revolting against the tsar. or warlords revolting against a centralized power.
or, put another way, atheists conquering musslemans. or even musselmans conquering atheists.
after all, it doesn’t matter what an insurgent promotes, all that matters is that the insurgent overcomes the incumbent.
but then, if the deposed former incumbent revolts against the former revolutionary, is that then heroic? I suppose you would think so.
therefore, although scientific developments have revolted against, let us say polio, just as an example, then that’s heroic. but by your stated reasoning, were polio to revolt against scientific discovery, and succeed in proving resistant, nay, overwhelmingly more powerful than scientific development, thus relegating science’s initial revolution to the dung-heap, then polio deserves to be lionized.
or do i misunderstand what you define as heroic?
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that is some awesome lateral creative thinking.. Perhaps if Polio resisted only Evil Scientists: man-animal hybrid cloners or some such
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what can I say? I’m a product of my environment? merely living out this thing called life because of instinct?
Even my beliefs, much as I’d like them to be, aren’t universally quantifiable. After all, it is written, the righteous will live by faith.
Paul once said something to the effect that if Christian belief is belief in a lie, then Christ followers are the most pitiable of all entities.
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WWWHHHAAAAATTTTT? Shut the hell up! You are in no position to say anything to anyone about any country, governemnt, polticcal ideology or anything else. It is really a good thing I DON”T knowhow to reach you physically. You cdeserve a slap across the face!
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This was posted in response to Rory admitting he had never been to the US and was somewhat racist etc. I have no idea why it posted here!
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It isn’t Rory’s fault. As a fascist and a racist he must be able to carry multiple truths in his mind and apply only that one which suits his present position. It is in this manner that he can come from a tiny tiny country and presume to know everything about Amerika . . . a place that he has never been to and that could fit his entire Island into a boot one of those fellows from Texas wears.
That is also how he can go around the world working for the British East India Company looking to start sugar plantations in the Congo and subjugate the peoples of the world; with his jack booted thugery and then accuse Amerika of imperialism. It is just like what his Nazi friends tried to do to Stalin. I read all bout Rory in Mercantalists of Fortune Magazine. And the only reason he hates the imperialists of Amerika is because they are stopping his own imperialist friends from running the world.
But that is always how the fascists do it. They accuse everyone one else of what they want to be doing. But at least when the imperialism of Amerika fails the people will rise up and be able to support themselves from a land that stretches from one ocean to another. While his country will not be able to produce enough to feed itself.
Viva la Flo Rida!
Khannnnnn out!
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Uh,……..Rory. I think I can safely say that even Cubans know it is better in this country than in yours. I’ve seen which way the boat and rafts are traveling when people are escaping one country to go to another.
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“From the photographer
I really hate the comments from people who have enyojed democracy and prosperity all their lives and then go to Cuba for tourism as if it were a Zoo of people who deserve less than animals. Then they say that pictures like mine can be taken anywhere in the US (which I haven’t seen yet in two years living in there, just a few lazy bums and drug addicts that eat and dress better than my family in Cuba) and so on as if that justifies the 50 year dictatorship, the killings, the political prisoners, lack of freedom of religion, expresion, separation of families etc etc. To those people I give the same medicine totalitarian dictatorships gives its subjects INTERNET CENSORSHIP. I hope you enjoy it as much as Gillermo Farinas who was just beat up and imprisoned for trying to access the network. Next time stay in Cuba as a regular slave without dollars and freedom and tell me how you like it.
— Myself, March 13, 2007″
http://www.worldisround.com/articles/161733/index.html
i’d just loooooooove to see rory’s vacation pix.
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They could have been taken in EPCOT at the Cuban exhibit.
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BTW, that comment was about rory’s pics, not the link you posted.
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yes, and thanks for clearing that up. it only took me about an HOUR to come to the conclusion that’s what you meant. LOL
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HEHEHEHE!
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Guillermo Fariñas Hernández (born 3 January 1962) (“El Coco”) is a Cuban doctor of psychology,[1] independent journalist[2] and political dissident in Cuba. He has conducted 23 hunger strikes over the years to protest various elements of the Cuban regime.[3] He has stated that he is ready to die in the struggle against censorship in Cuba
Controversial. What do you think?
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If you have 25 minutes, this is an interesting piece of new reporting! Probably as transparent as you’re going to get of Cuba! (for now)
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2011/08/2011831736730355.html
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Don’t have time to watch the whole video, but it seems that AlJazeera would like to see Cuba become more open and progressive. My first instinct is to think that the reason for that is so that Islam can move in and start destroying the country, making it completely uninhabitable for infidels. Just my opinion, of course.
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Great Photos and very true! I was in Cuba for 5 weeks Feb/March I wish I could post some of the photo’s I have… Some very sad ones! On a happier note though… UNESCO is investing millions into restoration of some incredible projects and things are happening in Cuba! There is change taking place!
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in the tourist enclaves. won’t help the people one bit.
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Yes I agree re:local! But still, definitely some architecture well worth restoring! Havana is a spectacular, albeit crumbling city! And while trying to have an optimistic point of view and tourism being a major revenue generator for Cuba and hoping that when the government changes… this investment in Habana Vieja will help the Cuban people manifest successful, small business enterprises within a continued and growing tourist industry and reap the rewards! I know that’s a lot of “ands”
It’s change at least and it’s slow but there’s hope!
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I’m thinking that anyone from outside Cuba that is putting any money into it, is doing so because they believe that there is going to be a change in leadership, and that it will open up to capitalism and trade. Nobody with a brain would invest in a communist culture that wasn’t planning to change.
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Georgina, when and how do expect the government to change? In any real way, I mean.
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Re: Cuba Doc – Why would that get a thumbs down? I only said it was interesting and about as transparent as it could get coming out of Cuba!
Must be the fact that I posted it! It’s tough getting visas for this type of thing in Cuba… Really tough! I’m amazed that this much was allowed!
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Don’t take that personal, there will always be someone that will thumb down without comment, regardless of what is posted.
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Yeah don’t sweat it Georgina.. you’re not getting totally buried now and that’s a good thing. I still would like to see aliases attached to downvotes, but its never gonna happen
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Sometimes, for no reason, out of the blue, articles that I have visited before decide to allow me to thumb up or down all over again. So I unburied your post there, Georgina. At least for now.
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Hey,Thanks! That was actually really nice of you! I also noticed that under some comments the “reply to this specific comment” isn’t there!
Anyone know why?
I had wanted to acknowledge a couple of appologies from poppajoe and Robert W on the previous page! And just say… Thanks! and considering this is a pretty contraversial and passionate page… I’m just really happy and pleased we all came full circle! I think that fact alone (considering this particular subject and the fact we don’t share quite the same points of view LOL!) Just demonstrates that a conversation can be had!
I might have said this before… I just think it’s absolutely Brilliant that there are a few people left on this planet who actually have opinions! (even if they’re not quite the same as mine…) Listen well enough and we can all still learn something even if we don’t agree!
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After specific replies nest as far to the right as they can, they go straight down and you’ll have to scroll up to find the last reply button, and your reply is added at the end of the line (it can be a pretty long line, you should see the tiny bubbles thread). Some add tags like @Georgina then to help clarify. Did that make sense? (sigh) I knew I should have waited and let drb answer your Q.
Any way, for what it’s worth, I’d love to see that energy turned loose on some of the total snark, “non-controversial” threads here.
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Why would you need me to answer?…you did just fine.
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Sounded convoluted when I re-read it. I think of you as the “just the facts Ma’am” with Qs like that. As in Fast Accurate Concise True. Still wish Georgina would bust loose on other threads here and get the Whole Experience.
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I think of you as the “just the facts Ma’am” with Qs like that. As in Fast Accurate Concise True.
Sounds about right. Except a bit of totally non-serious flirty fun every once in a while. (and even that is quite pithy.)
Still wish Georgina would bust loose on other threads here and get the Whole Experience.
I believe she has ventured out a little bit…wish she’d let this thread die again…but she is free to do as she pleases.
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lol i could see Doc Lucy denouncing these “pithy flirtations!”
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Awe, Alien…you do love me after all…*blush*
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I’d love to see Georgina take on Olivia on the Christian bashing thread!
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Like with a few of the threads here this one mutates… Very interestingly! From Che to Cuba and it’s political history, world Communism, Socialism, Marx, Revolution, Castro to the socio-political state and structure of Cuba today! In my own defense… I have avoided saying any more about Che Guevara and moved on knowing that we had to agree to disagree! Honestly I’m not trying to keep it alive but Cuba is an interesting, politically controversial subject and I do get drawn in by a comment or two…
I’ll get over it)
I have been treading carefully, wanting to avoid the stigma of being labelled because of this one particular point of view I have had here (Just a little post-traumatic stress
PoppaJoe – I have noticed the name Olivia from past posts and also noticed her name appearing a lot again in the last 24 hours. Which is the Christian bashing thread? I’ll take a look… I’m curious now! I hope you’re not leading a lamb to slaughter! I like it much better when we’re getting along!
GhostntheMachine – Thanks for the explanation! Once I took a
look I understood completely!
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You should look at her posts and see just what her mindset is. It might amuse you.
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/antibullying-speaker-curses-christian-teens
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I’m doing procrastinated mind-numbing paperwork, playing Texas Hold’Em to stay awake and sane and contemplating my new hideous digs, what’s your excuse ?
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I was playing Mafia Wars, and going through the over 250 emails I got from here now that Oblivious is back and posting like a fool. Plus I don’t want to miss a chance to slam the pedophile.
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I’m going to have to go with PsychoDad on this one. TD the bastards, then MO.
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George Washington didn’t murder unarmed people after he won his war.
Che didn’t stage peaceful protests.
You are clueless.
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You speak of trials. Pathetic. All know that the great Char Guevara would not have debased himself or the glorious rise of the Cuban people with such imperialistic notions as that. Besides what is there to trial. Each of the Cubans were brothers to one another. They belonged not to themselves. They belonged to the whole. They died because the community (as decided by Castro or Guevara without a trial by their peers) demanded it. They were counter revolutionaries. They believed lies and failed to espouse the correct think. And now an imperialist, bourgeois, pig-dog Amerikan like you pisses on their memory of their brave sacrifice to be slaughtered after the revolution for the continued glory of the revolution by expecting us to believe they were treated as cowardly individuals with the cowardly individual, capitalist, imperial notions as trials bey jury. There are no trials by jury in the true peoples democracy. Only trials by the needs of the continuing revolution. You should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting otherwise. You’ve probably never even been to cuba.
Viva la la
Khan out!
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The murderer is you. You’re murdering history with your revisionism.
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I get more intelligent debate from my neighbor’s newborn.
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Aw, is a newborn the only mind level that will agree with you?
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No, just one among the 300+ million in the US that are smarter than you.
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Why would I refer to your point about George Washington. I have no love for the imperialist pig dogs. I love the revolution. I love the global brotherhood of mankind. I love the workers paradise. I love the Cuba. And you insult the glories of the classless society by bringing up trials. Those that Char executed for espousing the incorrect correct think gave their lives in order to combat this slave notion of fair trials for the individual. What is the individual? Without the whole he is nothing. He exists for the good of the community. For the good of his fellow man. These trials subvert production from the needs of the many. They are selfish and greedy and counter revolutionary. And I spit on your insults to the memories of great men who made the world safe for freedom that freeing people from having to practice it.
Khan out!
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I was not talking about revolution in general. I was talking about proto marxist revolution that becomes the permanent revolution that sparks the global revolution that leads to the proletariat world-wide rising up and putting down the oppressors from the bourgeoisie class. You’ve really got to start learning to understand context. Perhaps you could aid this endeavor by reading more books or something.
As for Cuban trials . . . obviously you’ve never been to the peoples paradise that is Cuba. You smell of western corruption you yankee daytripper.
Viva la hot topic intellectual
Khan out!
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The Marxist revolution didn’t start in Cuba alone . . . nor did I suggest that it did or that was the specific revolution I was referring to or that I was referring to it alone. Our Marx contended that it would happen world wide all at once after the capitalist pig dogs led to the final global bust cycle. It did not work this way as the Soviets started the revolution themselves. This was an imperfect beginning and Trotsky soon developed the notion of permanent revolution which would have to suffice until the world could come into the fold. Stalin of course modified the system into one of communism in one country. This was, of course, not sufficiently communist. But it is what we had to work with. The Cuban revolution was another event in the larger revolution for the global communism. It is this larger revolution that I was referring to. There were plenty of terms in the post that should have made this clear even to the biggest of idiots. So obviously I am not surprised that they went over your head.
“And Marx didn’t start the world wide revolution rising up”
Nor did I suggest that he did. I called it a Proto-Marxist revolution. Because it was not perfect in its Marxism but served as a stage for the larger world wide revolution. A better term might have been quasi or para. But as you failed to understand even the simplest of these things I am rather convinced that these subtleties would be lost on a mind as thick as yours.
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Yet, you insist on continuing to argue with a charicature.
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“I never suggested the Marxist revolution started in Cuba alone. And you just called it a Marxist revolution. Not a proto-marxist one. So there you go. You just suggested it. Like you said, it did start in Russia and kept going… but not all revolutions now are Socialist, Communist, or Marxist.”
This is my fault. I apologize. I accept the blame. You have done nothing wrong here. From the beginning you have displayed an inability to wield the sorts of reading comprehension skills that would allow you to understand when, given the context of the conversation and the history of this planet, we were discussing a specific revolution, the act of revolution in general, the revolution Marx predicted in his writings, the Soviets attempts at the global communist revolution and the revolutions (regardless of flavor) to came after the Soviets but was not part of theirs or that could not have been integrated into theirs. It is clear to me know, as it should have been clear to me before, that I must break all these things down and explain them not only the first time, but every time. There will be no intellectual short hand with you.
Revolution is just in human nature for any cause, including conservative ones. If a group of people get together for a change, that’s a revolution
First lesson: Revolution is a swift and complete change. Unless those who hold the power just give it up it will probably require violence. This cannot be confused with “a group of people” simply getting “together for a change”. It is perhaps a subset of those conditions, but one of specific enough considerations to not be used interchangeably with the earlier notion. This is partly because people getting together for a change do not necessarily bring about a change. And if they do there are a myriad of options open to them that do not require revolution.
Second lesson: Conservative causes are not usually involved in revolutions. This is mostly because conservatism is always the current situation. It is kind of hard to have a swift and complete change from what is to what is. Although it might be permissible under a very looser usage to refer to elements within a society using force to purge the liberal or radical ones or the use of force to return to a previous system. But in any event a better word would probably be reactionary. And often times we use the terms restoration or counter-revolution to refer to events such as those.
Alas I grow tired of educating you. This may be the last time I attend to it. The Gingivitis Khan is here for snarking and smirking. Not for teaching people that haven’t spent enough time doing the research.
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Khan: You’ve been ripped off by Gene Roddenberry. This sounds suspiciously like the Star Trek (the original) episode called “Return of the Archons,” which was the story of a planet’s computerized lawgiver named Landru.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYTkSFRmKzM
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Thank you Mr. Editor Man. I like this clip much. Mr. Rodentberry was down with the struggle.
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All I know is waken has once again tried to resurrect a nearly dead thread, is clearly clueless abut his “subject” since he can’t tell that with a name like Ghengivitis Khan, he is just messing with your head. You don’t come across as very bright, thought I will give you a pont or 2 above the dark dri[. WHY CAN”T THIS THREAD DIE THE DEATH IT SO RICHLY DESERVES!
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Because there will always be some misguided, brainwashed, dumbass, college puke that will come here and tell us how Che was a hero.
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So speculative and seriously unworthy of acknowledgement, you deemed it necessary to reply. Your “relative scenario” trying to inject Andre, a British spy who was not only banging his wife but was hung for trying to abet Benedict Arnold’s surrender of West Point into the discussion is pure misdirection. So much for intelligent debate, you insult mine and then whine and throw out insults. My old HS logic teacher would laugh you out of class.
That vast right-wing conspiracy and their “hidden” agenda really blows don’t it?
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PS the Brits didn’t execute American officers because they lost, and neither did we, Andre was a SPY, big difference.
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How soon they forget
Waken May 13, 2012 at 5:10 pm
And therefore that point is hidden from plain view. Just what one would expect from cowards in the face of intelligent and open debate.
your comments about ten up. Those little liney things to the left are there for a reason.
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Uhhh, yes, the British DID execute spies. Well the ones spying on THEN at any rate. Go read a book and quit listening to the crap the Marxists are trying to sell you.
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That was all so speculative. Something seriously unworthy of acknowledgement.
Yet, you acknowleged it, but said nothing to further the discussion. That’s why you got the thumbs down.
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As an observer to this part of the thread, let me add that this argument broke down the minute Waken introduced George Washington and an attempt at relativism. One can make the case that each revolution has its acts of terror or other war crimes. That’s war. John Andre was indeed a spy and he was hanged for it despite appeals by both sides. Spies have been hanged or otherwise executed for centuries. That’s why details like being in uniform or not is important. The Brits executed spies too.
If one were to look at the run ups to both revolutions the motives appear similar until one examines the rhetoric AND the results. Our Founders created a Declaration and later a Constitution inspired by Natural Law and maximum
freedom from government tyranny. Che et al, claimed to have been working for “the people’s” (always a dicey claim in the 20th century) freedom but in reality, like all Marxists, they wanted power. No different than the preceding regime but certainly far more ruthless.
In short, to compare the American Revolution and its ideals
and more importantly its legacy with the Cuban Revolution is asinine. Just ask the Cuban ex-pats in Miami. Ask a Venezuelan now living here. They have witnessed a Marxist government and it is has been a disaster for their country.
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Look. It talks.
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Who gives a shit?
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I’ll dedicate my next sh!t to Che, & then do what needs to done to all commies & their enablers…F L U S H !
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Seems to me that you have been drinking from the raw sewage. How else can you explain the brain damage you obviously suffer from?
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Freakin’ Moron.
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“You ruined your credibility with the first sentence. Che wasn’t Cuban.
Thanks for trying”.
Interesting, let us take a look at that first sentence.
“Next time your kid comes home in a Che Guevara T-shirt, ask him if he knows what the Cuban murderer actually stood for”
What, you did not know that Char was indeed the murderer of many Cubans? Haha, thank you for failing.
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Uh, I didn’t write that pedophile. Now go fuck yourself and leave the little children alone you disgusting puke fucking shit stain on humanity. PS don’t fucking respond to anything I ever post. You make me sick.
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Where you are messing up is trying to defend & rationalize a genocidal piece of sh!t. The man was a punk ass bully was put down the 1st time he went up against someone who could fight back. It is only matter of time until Castro joins him in hell…
TIK…TOK…TIK…TOK…TIK…TOK…
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Are you insane?
We weren’t the ones who ran in the face of adversity in Vietnam, that was the French. We came in after they ran away, and we took over their mess.
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Well to be fair. The US did not lose a single battle during that conflict. Not one. Too bad the left got us into that war (made up the Gulf of Tonkin incident), claimed it unwinnable, fomented civil unrest, and then cut the funding for it to guarantee a political loss. Twice the North was ready to sue for peace under the beating they were taking by our military. First the Tet counter-offensive and then the Hanoi and supply line bombing campaigns and yet Congress and media equivocated and the NVA recognized that only they had the will to see the war to the end. All thanks again to the left.
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We never lost a battle. We just kept gighting for the same areas over and over again because the politicians wouldn’t let us wage a real war, and the punk asses at home who were too scared to go spent all their time whining about us being there. So the politicians folded and left. Nixon did a little lasting damage on the way out though.
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